Non-lethal feats [3.5]

[SilverLeaf167]

So, just a couple simple feats I thought I might as well post here to check for any problems I managed to miss.


Non-Lethal Combatant [Fighter]

You have practised to use any weapons to knock out enemies instead of killing them. You achieve this by using unusual parts of your weapon, such as a sword's handle, or striking the target in certain spots.

Prerequisite
Base attack bonus +1

Benefit
While attacking with a weapon (including natural weapons), you may choose to deal non-lethal damage without taking the usual -4 penalty. If you choose to do so, all bonus damage (such as that from Smite Evil, Sneak Attacks or weapon enhancements) and damage from martial maneuvers that involve an attack with the weapon are converted to non-lethal as well.


Non-Lethal Caster

Through special training, you have learned to infuse your abilities with just the right amount and sort of power to harm your enemies as normal without the risk of killing them.

Prerequisite
Caster level 1st, manifester level 1st or initiator level 1st

Benefit
You may apply this feat to any cast spell, manifested power or initiated supernatural maneuver that deals that deals hit point damage. Any damage dealt by the effect is converted to non-lethal damage. You must choose to apply this feat at the time of activating the ability and it affects all targets of the effect.

Special
This feat may be chosen by a Wizard or Psion as one of his bonus feats.


As I said, both are rather simple. They are mostly intended to be used by certain NPCs, such as guards, who I believe would benefit from having a reliable way to deal non-lethal damage without being totally useless. And yes, I am aware of the Non-Lethal Substitution metamagic feat, but it's pretty weak, as it only works on a certain type of damage, has to be applied as metamagic normally is and raises the spell level by one. I think having to take the feat is a big enough cost for a benefit like this.

[Pesimismrocks]

I love the first feat and I could see it fitting several builds. It should be a fighter bonus feat as well. It will also as you say be useful to NPC's who will be at a severe disadvantage trying to stop PCs without killing them.

Howver I would disagree with Non-lethal spellcasting. Spellcasters have enough of these in Sleep and Grease. No more power is needed and I dont see how a fireball could knock someone out.

[SilverLeaf167]

I love the first feat and I could see it fitting several builds. It should be a fighter bonus feat as well. It will also as you say be useful to NPC's who will be at a severe disadvantage trying to stop PCs without killing them.

Howver I would disagree with Non-lethal spellcasting. Spellcasters have enough of these in Sleep and Grease. No more power is needed and I dont see how a fireball could knock someone out.

Well, the first one actually is a Fighter bonus feat. The [Fighter] tag is used in most of the later 3.5 books to mark those. Glad you like it though

That said, I can see your point on the second one, but I think there's a big gap in spells between "using a low-level spell to instantly disable them for a few rounds" and "using a high-level spell to instantly disable them potentially forever". Knocking them out with non-lethal damage falls somewhere between those, plus from a player's point of view I believe it's much nicer and fun to be worn down with damage, fair and square, than to be instantly taken out with a single save-or-lose spell. Admittedly, it was made with a specific NPC (a Duskblade captain of the guard) in mind, but it also gives a new option to other such classes with very limited spell choices. I don't think it should really be a huge boost in power. As mentioned, there's always the opportunity cost (having to use up a feat) to balance out the small mechanical advantage it might give.

Assuming I want to keep the mechanical side as-is, how about helping me with the fluff part? I admit, that was sort of thrown together. Given that this is D&D, where real-life logic definitely doesn't apply to everything (HP in general is one of the biggest offenders), I don't think it's that hard to imagine characters working on action hero physics like that.
Depending on how you fluff magic in general, maybe the spell could simply affect some sort of metaphysical "stamina force" instead of the usual "life force"?

[Plato Play-Doh]

I agree with pesimismrocks on this one. I can see the spell one working if you're using negative energy or something like that, but a fireball...well, rather than allowing a fireball to deal nonlethal damage, just make the NPC good at heal checks to stabilize people after being dropped below 0 HP, or use nonlethal spells. I really don't see how that could be fluffed, short of making it deal nonlethal negative energy (that fire's not really there, just a representation of negative energies).

[SilverLeaf167]

Meh, I guess Fireball is sort of a difficult spell to use as an example. This of course doesn't make either of you wrong, since an universally applicable feat should make sense universally. Still, it makes a lot more sense with, say, electricity and cold spells, but fire as a whole is weird to imagine as non-lethal. However, I really don't want to throw on an arbitrary element limitation, since that would be just annoying nitpicking, especially as fire-themed casters are so popular. If we were willing to use official feats as a precedent (might not be such a great idea), the Nonlethal Substitution feat this is intended to replace doesn't have any fluff at all.

You can modify an energy spell to deal nonlethal damage.

That's literally it.
Technically, if we can't think of an universally applicable fluff explanation, we could just let everyone fluff it on a case-by-case basis... unless of course someone has an overbearing repulsion to the mechanical effect itself.

[Omnicrat]

Fireball is instead a burst of heat and expanding gas. Not hard to think of these things.

[Pesimismrocks]

Sorry I didn't notice the fighter tag.

There are two things I could see fluff wise.
-1) The spell changes the energy type to a special type of energy. Sleep enerergy or something similiar with a better name.

-2) Otherwise it's more difficult. Cold energy could freeze the blood. Lightning could stun. Fire could knock you out and off your feet. Force could knock you back. Sonic could easily knock someone out. Acid is problematic but I could see it causing enough pain to cause fainting.

[Temotei]

Since when does D&D have to make sense?

Why is Nonlethal Combatant limited to melee weapons? It's not like it would unbalance it if you had ranged weapons as nonlethal options. Fluff-wise, you'd just be aiming for a nonlethal area to knock them out.

[Network]

A feat like the first one already exist in Book of Exalted Deeds. It also applies to bonus damage from Smite evil and sneak attacks. It doesn't have the Exalted descriptor.

[Temotei]

A feat like the first one already exist in Book of Exalted Deeds. It also applies to bonus damage from Smite evil and sneak attacks. It doesn't have the Exalted descriptor.

Oh yeah. I forgot about that one.

This could replace that feat if this changes to allow nonlethal attacks to be made exactly like normal attacks. You could actually apply martial strikes, then, too.

[SilverLeaf167]

A feat like the first one already exist in Book of Exalted Deeds. It also applies to bonus damage from Smite evil and sneak attacks. It doesn't have the Exalted descriptor.

Oh, I must have forgotten about that
I'll expand this feat though, to explicitly include most sorts of bonus damage.

EDIT: Changes completed, I also changed Non-Lethal Spellcaster to apply to psionics and supernatural maneuvers as well, because why not?