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2016-02-26, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I am mostly disinterested. Considering the relatively unilateral way the current thread curator was appointed, I move that the position be reconsidered (whether or not martianmister responds within a week) so the curator can be selected by consensus. If the motion passes, I nominate martianmister for NoCA index curator.
Last edited by rodneyAnonymous; 2016-02-26 at 02:20 PM.
I like semicolons; they make me feel smart.
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2016-02-26, 02:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
What? If martianmister responds, and still wants to run the thread, there's no need to have a vote over it.
Also, why are you pushing for a recall vote if you're going to be voting for the incumbent anyway?
No, no votes. We're not having a vote to take the thread away from the curator. That way lies madness.
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2016-02-26, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
Pokemon:
Spoiler
Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
DS name: Ben
In-game name: Lief
Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails
Brew:
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2016-02-26, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Martianmister's desire to continue and experience running the thread might influence consensus, as might her response or lack thereof. It is simply not true that if she wants to continue then there's no need to vote; that is an opinion, and I disagree. I think it should be a consensus decision, regardless. (It should have been before, but we can't influence the past. We can influence the present.)
I did not express an intention to vote for her. I expressed an opinion that she should be on the ballot.I like semicolons; they make me feel smart.
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2016-02-26, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
How things should be is one thing. However if Martianmaster insists on continuing and someone based upon the consensus starts a new thread, then the moderators will likely close one of the threads down. As such it will ultimately come down to the moderators - no need to go to the demi-moderators for a tie-breaker or anything like that! So not just out of fairness to Martianmaster but also to demonstrate that to the moderators, we should not rush things but should proceed with caution and respect.
Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2016-02-26, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-02-26, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I am just pointing out the reality of the situation. The plot is not driven forward based on voting and the forum threads have owners. That is the reality. If the moderators want to recognise a democratic vote (or not) that is up to them.
Edit: A modern democracy does not permit property to be taken off people based merely upon a vote. That is what you are proposing. The neglected ownership of a forum thread may be a small thing of more interest to the public than that owner, but to take it away from its owner without due process would be against human rights at least in spirit.Last edited by Mad Humanist; 2016-02-26 at 06:28 PM.
Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2016-02-26, 06:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Minor correction: the GitP forum staff and moderators do no recognize 'ownership' of threads. Thread curation is something they recognize. There actually is precedence for using a mod-organized vote to appoint a new curator, but I don't think they've ever had an impeachment vote, which is effectively what Rodney is proposing.
If there's going to be any sort of vote, the mods need to be involved, because they're the ones that are going to have to deal with the fallout of any disagreements.
Edit: Just to be clear: I think having a recall vote is a Bad Idea, but if that's what you want to happen, petition the mods.Last edited by Fawkes; 2016-02-26 at 07:14 PM.
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2016-02-26, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I don't think that's minor, it's an important correction. I am not at all proposing revoking ownership of anything; ownership is not involved, except for the incidental fact that currently only one "temporary owner" can edit the thread. There is no established "curator term length" or limit, at least two people have expressed interest in the position, and there are at least two critical reasons to consider opening the matter to debate: the current curator was self-appointed instead of chosen by consensus (which is pretty uncool), and also the current curator seems to be missing now and has gone missing before.
I also don't consider my motion to be "effectively" anything, for example a recall vote or impeachment proposal, and I request that you please stop referring to it that way. I think we should talk about who curates this thread (including the possibility of no net change!), and that status quo is an invalid reason to postpone that discussion. Period.Last edited by rodneyAnonymous; 2016-02-26 at 07:47 PM.
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2016-02-26, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Okay, it's not a recall or impeachment. But in any case, this isn't a democratic forum. The mods established the rules of curated threads here, and if we're going to be talking about changing curators, they need to be notified.
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2016-02-26, 08:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Okay folks, slow down a bit there. We don't even know whether martianmister is still interested or able to curate this thread. I know she's vanished before and then come back, but hey, maybe she'll bow out if someone else steps up to the plate. Maybe she's got stuff going on in her life that she's dealing with and this would be a relief, we don't know. I've been in that situation before. I'd think common courtesy dictates that we make sure she is aware of what's being discussed here and has a chance to respond (or, if she's out of reach altogether, that we establish that fact beyond reasonable doubt before moving on). In any case, no sense getting all the catapults out on the field before we're sure there's even a castle to lay siege to, to keep with the medieval fantasy theme
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2016-02-26, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-02-27, 12:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I just emailed martianmister (I hope that's not weird; her inbox on the forum is full). If I don't hear back for a week or so, should I go ahead and make a new thread? I'd like to call it Number of Character Appearances VI: We Like Counting Things, but of course I'm open to other ideas.
Also, I'd like to hear from as many people as possible about whether a methodology tweak - namely, ranking characters by the number of total pages they've appeared in, rather than the number of online strips they're in - would be appropriate for the new thread, with the obvious caveat that this is in no way important if martianmister wants to continue curating the thread. I like the idea, personally, and I'm glad it's gotten some support, but I don't want to make such a significant chance without wider approval.Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2016-02-27, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
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2016-02-27, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2016-02-27, 03:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I am glad you have done this.
As Fawkes suggests I think we should follow precedent. That means you should wait until a new curator is decided - which would involve the moderators.
That is the point at which I agree with rodneyAnonymous. I would like some discussion and possibly even voting amongst ourselves at some point at a time when it is neither preemptive and presumptious nor too late. So as someone who has no wish to curate this thread I will take it upon myself to give the moderator mentioned in the precedent a heads up.
For what it's worth I second this.
I would not like to make arbitrary changes to the thread. Of course if we made this information available on a different site that was communally owned we could do all sorts of cool stuff.Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick
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2016-02-27, 03:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
For what's it worth, I personally wouldn't want to change the methodology of the thread. Apart from just not wanting to change what's been working fine, not everyone owns the books, so total page counts are in my view more of a "bonus" to the main appearances list.
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2016-02-27, 04:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I would prefer number of titled strips the character has appeared in, rather than total pages.
Actually, that would do a better job showing who is prominent versus not in the comic. Count me in favor. Could we also possibly count speaking vs nonspeaking appearances for named characters? That seems to accord with the mission of the thread, and we could do it automatically (for online strips, not pages, unfortunately) using the Transcription thread. (Does anyone maintain a list of multi-page strips? They are a much narrower domain to search over than strips globally, since most strips are a single page. Maybe a translation thread?)Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
Pokemon:
Spoiler
Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
DS name: Ben
In-game name: Lief
Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails
Brew:
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2016-02-27, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
It would be great to count speaking vs. nonspeaking appearances for characters. Unfortunately, it sounds like an enormous task, and while I could certainly devote time to maintaining this thread as it currently operates, I don't have the time to do that extra legwork. I'd be quite happy to include the information in the OPs if someone else wants to compile it, of course, as well as doing the work for new strips as they come out.
Thanks for messaging Mark, MadHumanist!Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2016-02-27, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I don't know that adjusting how the thread is curated, or voting on a new title is a good idea while waiting to see how the mods decide on the curator issue.
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2016-02-28, 02:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Yes, I admit that I was slightly unsure whether bringing the former issue up at all would be appropriate - although I ultimately decided to bring the question up with the explicit caveat that this obviously won't matter at all if martianmister is fine and can continue to curate this thread. Discussions like this can take a long time, and I figured it would probably be worthwhile to save time by soliciting opinions while we wait to hear back. I'm fine with tabling discussion for now, though, if anyone is uncomfortable with discussing the details of a hypothetical new thread before we even know if one will exist.
People were talking about using the title even before discussion turned to martianmister's absence, so I felt it was appropriate to bring the title up. I agree that a formal voting process would be premature, although we might not need one when the time comes to make a new thread - "I/We Like Counting Things" has been unanimously supported so far, IIRC, and it seems like overkill to vote on which pronoun to use, even for this thread. (I mean, sure, if people really want, we can vote on the pronoun. #yolo)Last edited by Emanick; 2016-02-28 at 02:04 AM. Reason: Please forgive the hashtag. It's okay if you don't. I'm not sure it's forgivable.
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2016-02-28, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
I think it's not quite so bad, depending on how much resolution we want. Minimally, the transcription project is completely up to date and can be checked automatically, giving us per-strip speaking parts. I just posted in the German translation thread asking if they have a compilation; assuming they do and I can access it, it can be scraped for panel-by-panel info (though I would need a German/English dictionary to write that code ). I also recall that ChristianSt had some kind of crazy XML thing with a whole bunch of data back when the transcription was (re) starting up, so someone can PM him if none of the rest of this works out. Offline page/panel data is more of a pain (I only have NCfPB and SoD at this point, and so can only check those, and it would be a pain anyway), but it could be done.
To be clear, by the way, I am willing to write code for automatic scraping of these various resources, and run said code.Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
Pokemon:
Spoiler
Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
DS name: Ben
In-game name: Lief
Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails
Brew:
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2016-02-28, 06:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Germany
Re: Number of Character Appearances V
No need to PM me ;-). Indeed I did some XML stuff (though I wouldn't call it crazy) during the restarting of the transcript. It is set up strips-by-page-by-panel-by-bubbel, so with some XML/programming fu it could yield some interesting stuff, but there a two major issue why it is of no help for this project:
- It only contains speaking appearances. E.g. my XML for 887 pretty much only contains the information that the strip has one page, 27 panels and no speaking appearances. Optimally I would need to add a list of appearances to some unit (best by panel). Though from what I see the transcript and the translations share the same problem.
- It is basically non-existing in the context of the complete comic - I have a total of 59 strips transcribed that way (the batch from 700-750 + some others for testing
purposes). Meaning that as of this writing I only cover a merely 5% of the available online strips (not even counting any book content).
I kinda hoped that we could start the transcript in a more formalized way (e.g. XML) to enable some fun stuff. Unfortunately that didn't pan out and I basically only used it to generate my batch of the transcript.
So in order for my side-project to be useful I would have a pretty hefty workload before me - one I'm not sure I will try to overcome. (Especially factoring in that it is nearly 2 years ago I touched the thing the last time.) I have toyed with the idea to use the pdfs to make the workload easier, but honestly I don't see myself starting that task again. And even if so, it probably wouldn't be finished this year.
If I had the data I wouldn't mind to do let it spit out some fun numbers (because that would be the fun part of it!), but without data it isn't really useful.
EDIT (on the thread curator topic):
I have a fair share of experience curating (fortunately comparably small) threads of my own, so at least I know a bit of the curating end of that side.
I don't think it should be a problem if a curator is gone for a month. Life can come in the way and sometime it might not be possible (or not easy to remember) to be in touch for a while, and ultimately I don't think that thread-curating should only be reserved to peoples without real-life hiccups.
The thing I see more troublesome is (the at least at the moment perceived tendency) with the OP being out of date. I wouldn't mind if the OP isn't actually up to date per strip, but I do not recall martianmister saying the OP updates only every X Y (like the MitD thread updating every 10 pages) and the "Updated through XX" posts suggest to me the OP should be up to date.
And unless problems* arise I don't think there is an inherit need to reach for consensus on who curates a thread. I can only say that for the threads I curate there was no vote, even for the one that spun off an existing thread. I just PM'ed a mod whether I can start a curated version and was allowed to do so - I didn't even made a post in the original thread; although the OP of that thread posted that he wouldn't mind someone starting a curated version.
*I'm unsure whether that is true or not true for this thread.Last edited by ChristianSt; 2016-02-28 at 06:30 AM.
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2016-02-28, 06:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Ah, well. Still, there is the actual transcription for strip-by-strip, and possibly the German translation for panel-by-panel.
Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
Pokemon:
Spoiler
Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
DS name: Ben
In-game name: Lief
Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails
Brew:
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2016-02-28, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
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2016-02-28, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Those who don't want to change the method of ranking: would you be ok with just adding the additional data somehow? (I've been assuming we'd keep the by-strip appearance numbers, just not rank by them)
Last edited by unbeliever536; 2016-02-28 at 12:22 PM.
Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
Pokemon:
Spoiler
Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
DS name: Ben
In-game name: Lief
Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails
Brew:
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2016-02-29, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Tossing another one onto the pile:
1026: Belkar (+1), Blackwing, Goliath (as vampire) (+1), Little Whiskers, Roy, VaarsuviusAssistant Treasurer of the Haley fan club
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2016-02-29, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
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2016-02-29, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Yeah, I actually thought of that when the thread was bumped earlier today. I was thinking about whether it would be possible to use some of its information to make this thread more interesting - then I got distracted by Real Life.
So yeah, if this thread does get remade with me as the new curator, I'd be open to adding such features.Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
Currently playing a level 20 aasimar necromancer named Zebulun Salathiel and a level 9 goliath diviner named Lo-Kag.
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2016-03-02, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Number of Character Appearances V
Ever wondered how many games are mentioned in the comic? I have listed them all in a geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/2...es-order-stick