What? My gear is gone? Pfft! Why should I care?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Restrictions:
-PhB and DMG only
-No Magic Casting as a character (can still pay gold for spell casting services)

Basically I'm currently working on a Level 8 Gestalt build that doesn't need items/gear to do well. This is because the person DM'ing the next group I'm going to be in has a love for screwing players over in situations they're without their gear.

So are there any good builds where I don't need certain equipment/gear to do good?

That or it's something burned into my guy so it's not something that can be looted off of him?

[Greenish]

Barbarian/Fighter//Rogue with IUS is probably your best option. Monk levels might help a bit, but since you'd rather have access to rage, you'll pass those (or wing in an alignment change).

But you're probably screwed against most CR appropriate enemies, so eh.

[Karnith]

If you're doing Core-only, no gear is going to be pretty difficult. With spellcasters, a sorcerer with eschew materials would probably be fine, as would a druid, but non-spellcasters are pretty gear-dependent to not just get hit constantly in combat (by CR 8, enemy attack bonuses are easily capable of getting past nonmagical armor/monk AC; consider the elder arrowhawk with +20 melee, the athach with +16 melee or a full attack of +12/+12/+12/+7, or the behir with +15 melee; even a level 8 fighter is going to have an attack bonus at least in the mid-teens), and most damage reduction, regeneration, flight, and/or incorporeality is going to screw you over. Without magic the healing is also going to hurt either you or your bankroll. Without items, your saves aren't going to be too hot, either.

Permanent magical effects are pretty sparse in core, but there are a few that you can spring for to make your life a little better (but be wary of dispel magic):
Enlarge Person for melee-types
(Greater) Magic Fang for unarmed-types
Reduce person for stealthy/squishy-types
Resistance if you're desperate
At high levels, polymorph any object cast twice can turn you into whatever you want, but if your DM is taking your gear away he probably won't put up with that level of cheese

You will probably be able to contribute out of combat passably well if you go the skill-monkey route, though without items of competence you might run into some difficulties (magic traps are a headache, for example).

[ShurikVch]

Leadership. Spellcasting cohort...

[JustSomeGuy]

How easily could your character procure somebody's clothes, boots and bike in a pinch?


(Or a more useable idea, what kind of nonhuman/monstrous/magical creature PC races with innate abilities etc. are available to you?)

[Callin]

Fighter 4/Rogue 3/Shadowdancer 1//Monk 8

So you can stealth outta those Rock and a Hard place times.
Fighter 4 for Spec UAS so you can make up for having a lower Str.

[Answerer]

The game doesn't work under these stipulations and I advise you to find a DM who understands that.

[Gwazi Magnum]

Only races I can find from base manuals are available.

Though after some more reading I figured a Monk/Lycanthrope Gestalt could be the best.

But I've ran into confusion for the level buy off when Gestalt is involved.

Say I go afflicted for LA +2.

So at level 8 I look like this:

Monk 8
Werebear 6/LA +2

Do I use the Monk level or the Werebear level to decide when I am allowed to buy off a level of LA?

Also, when I do buy off LA (lowering my experience by a level) would that also cause my Monk level to go down to Monk 7?

[Gwazi Magnum]

Also, say I wanted to be Natural and not Inflicted, could I divide the LA +3 between the lycanthrope levels and the Monk levels?

For example

Monk 7/LA +1
Werebear 6/LA +2

But obviously still need to reach character level 9 before buy off begins?

[Answerer]

How LA mixes with Gestalt is not well defined.

But Monk is never the best choice for anything, including this. Barbarian does much better. Lycanthrope's not a bad idea, but even more strongly downplays the usefulness of Monk since the Claws are frequently better than Monk unarmed strikes.

And I reiterate, nothing you do is ever going to make this effective. D&D relies on magic: without items or native magic, you will not have it. You will therefore be useless is a depressingly large number of situations.

[Gwazi Magnum]

We'd rather not have one spell casting character take over everything, and we'd rather not have to solve that by making everyone spell casters.

If I were in hybrid form however, wouldn't natural attack (claws) mix/work with the Monks unarmed damage?

[ShurikVch]

Not exactly "from base manuals" but still... On the "safer" side...
Be an incorporeal (LA +1). Feat "Ghostly Grasp". Now you are pretty difficult to hurt, and you incorporealness cannot be stripped from you.

[Answerer]

We'd rather not have one spell casting character take over everything, and we'd rather not have to solve that by making everyone spell casters.

Then you are playing the wrong system. 3.x is terrible at this.

If I were in hybrid form however, wouldn't natural attack (claws) mix/work with the Monks unarmed damage?

Not really. You could attack with your Unarmed Strikes (unaffected by your claws), and then make your claw attacks as secondaries (unaffected by unarmed strikes). You'd get a lot of attacks, and the majority of them would miss. At best a level or two (no more) of Monk for Flurry, AC Bonus, Bonus Feats (including IUS++), and Evasion. Except that this prevents you from taking Barbarian levels, which are more valuable.

[Karnith]

Except that this prevents you from taking Barbarian levels, which are more valuable.

Does it? Monks retain all monk abilities they've already gained, even if they change alignment or classes, as far as I know.

A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.

[Answerer]

Yes, and a power-tripping DM who "has a love for screwing players over in situations they're without their gear" is going to go for a backstory alignment change, I'm sure.

[Karnith]

Yes, and a power-tripping DM who "has a love for screwing players over in situations they're without their gear" is going to go for a backstory alignment change, I'm sure.

Fair enough.

Gwazi, have you or your group talked to your DM about why taking away gear isn't cool? Because that's probably a better idea than trying to optimize against DM fiat.

[Rubik]

Yes, and a power-tripping DM who "has a love for screwing players over in situations they're without their gear" is going to go for a backstory alignment change, I'm sure.

You forgot to make this blue for sarcasm.

[Dimers]

the person DM'ing the next group I'm going to be in has a love for screwing players over in situations they're without their gear.

So are there any good builds where I don't need certain equipment/gear to do good?

That or it's something burned into my guy so it's not something that can be looted off of him?

Well, yes, you can make magic items that take up no body slot (requiring twice the usual GP cost) and call them tattoos or something similarly non-removable. Enchanted surgical implants. Whatever. It's a fair trade, in the minds of most DMs, and it's supported if not specifically delineated by the Magic Item Creation rules in the DMG. Based on your description of this person, though, it sounds like merely paying double the cost will not be sufficient to appease his item-thieving wrath. Can't hurt to ask, but not likely to work.

[Answerer]

I don't particularly care for that forum convention, and I really don't think there was any ambiguity about my position in that sentence. I don't always employ sarcasm, but when I do, my statement is dripping with it.

[Ravenica]

Gotta love how the OP comes asking for build help and instead gets told his DM is stupid and his group is playing wrong such a friendly place

[killem2]

Can you give an example of how a dm explains how everyone loses ALL their gear with out you being able to react?

Gotta love how the OP comes asking for build help and instead gets told his DM is stupid and his group is playing wrong such a friendly place

Yup. His DM is a major idiot, but I will try to help! :P

[Rubik]

Gotta love how the OP comes asking for build help and instead gets told his DM is stupid and his group is playing wrong such a friendly place

The problem is that being magickless in D&D doesn't work, especially in Core.

The entire situation is untenable, and we're trying to get that point across.

[Answerer]

Gotta love how the OP comes asking for build help and instead gets told his DM is stupid and his group is playing wrong such a friendly place

He got plenty of help. Including from me. He also got really important advice. The system does not support the kind of game he and his group apparently want to play well at all. There are systems that are designed from the ground up with this sort of thing in mind, and they do a far better job handling it.

Too many people play only D&D, and try to force the square D&D peg through various round holes. Don't be afraid to branch out and try new things. D&D is not the best system for every campaign. Actually, it's not really the best system for most campaigns. 3.x, in particular, has very few things going for it, and a Core-only game has none, since the biggest and most important advantage of 3.x is enormous array of material available for it. If you're not using that, the system really doesn't have anything else impressive about it.

[Callin]

From what I read the whole group decided to have no casters so as 1 person did not overshadow the whole group. They seem to not be new players so this could be a fun challenge to overcome.

The DM catching you with your pants down can be fun as well. But constantly being attacked while sleeping in your underwear and escaping prisons can be tiresome if overdone. However being able to handle yourself while in those situations is a good thing to plan a contingency for.

And i was wondering this. yes i know that the monk is basically a weak class but why is the Barb so much better when this game is so basic core that its not even funny. I mean the guy wants to be able to function without gear.

the barb with 8 levels gives you Fast Movement, Rage 3/day, Uncanny Dodge, Trapsense +2, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and DR 1/-. Ok so you get a +4 Str and Con a +2 to Will and a -2 to AC for 3+con mod rounds. After which you are fatigued. the rest isnt really worth mentioning other than Imp Uncanny Dodge which means you can not be flanked. Honestly not much help for a character that is goin to be gearless at times.

The Monk at 8 levels gets- Wis to AC, choice of a few semi lackluster to ok feats, Flurry of Blows, UAS, evasion, Still Mind, Ki Strike (Magic), +20' speed, Slow Fall 40', +1 insight to AC, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body. So thats some more feats, More attacks that are only 1 less than your normal BaB, the chance to negate all damage against stuff that you reflex save against, you attacks are magic, negate 40' of falling damage if by a wall or what not, immunity to normal disease (meh but can help), and the ability to heal your self for monk level x 2 each day divided as you need it. Overall a much better set of abilities to survive without gear. Specially since you dont need a weapon or armor and you are set to go.

[Ravenica]

It may not work if the DM is any good at playing the creatures and uses CR appropriate enemies effectively, but this player seems to have played with this DM before and is not complaining about the DM or about issues where the team has been tpk'd due to gear loss. He's looking for a build that does not rely on gear or spellcasting for it's tricks.

Instead of telling him he's playing wrong maybe actually help him with his build? I've been out of 3.5 too long to do so myself but I know for a fact that using core I've played characters that weren't gear dependent. He's not saying "never uses gear" or that he will never have or be able to keep gear, he simply wants a character that can survive the enevitable challenge for that time he loses his gear, however temporal.

[killem2]

Using the Called Magic Property could actually come in handy here! It may add cost to items that otherwise (because of the dm) would not need to be, but wouldn't that work?

He takes your items, you call them back?

[ksbsnowowl]

Also, say I wanted to be Natural and not Inflicted, could I divide the LA +3 between the lycanthrope levels and the Monk levels?

For example

Monk 7/LA +1
Werebear 6/LA +2

But obviously still need to reach character level 9 before buy off begins?

As Answerer said, the gestalt rules don't touch on level adjustment at all.
I've generally seen three ways it's done, with varying degrees of balance.
One is to put all LA on one side; this way is more overpowered, as it mitigates the balancing factor that LA are supposed to be.
The other, which is the one I use in my games, is what you described, where you split the LA on both sides as closely as you can. This still imposes some of the balancing factor LA is supposed to be, but doesn't overly punish the player as the third option does.
Third, is to impose the the LA on both sides of the character. I highly recommend against this, as it overly punishes the player.

[Answerer]

One is to put all LA on one side; this way is more overpowered, as it mitigates the balancing factor that LA are supposed to be.

Eh, gestalt is supposed to be overpowered compared to the regular game, and frankly outside of a couple of exceptions (Feral, Lolth-touched, Mineral Warrior, Saint, Unseelie Fey are the only ones to come to mind), LAs are generally way, way too high for what the race gives you. Mitigating that is a good thing in most cases, I'd argue. The original LAs were apparently set to dissuade players from taking monstrous races and punish them when they did.

[Piggy Knowles]

Can you use a casting class and just not cast any spells? Druid's wild shape would come in handy here. (Alternatively, if you can get the ranger Wild Shape variant from UA allowed...)

Honestly, you could do worse than Monk 8//Druid 8 in a campaign like this. Ki strike will actually become useful if your DM puts you up against any creatures with damage reduction. Maybe something like...

1- Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Track
2- Combat Reflexes
3- Blind-Fight
6- Improved Trip, Improved Initiative

(Man, PHB-only feats for a wild shape character with no casting kind of suck... but at least Blind-Fight can be useful if you've got no magical way of beating concealment?)

Basically, even if you completely ignored the druid's spells, you would still have a decent animal companion, the ability to wild shape into large creatures, and some various middlin' nature-themed abilities on your druid side. On your monk side, you get evasion, speed bonuses, ki strike, bonus feats, and some minor defensive abilities.

[animewatcha]

Unless DM is 'lenient' on alignment restrictions, you can't take both monks and barb levels at same time. One needs lawful to advance, the other needs nonlawful to advance.