Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 51
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default GitP Fighter Fix #18343.35-- now with Barbarian aspect!

    The Fighter

    And also the Barbarian, now!

    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: d10
    Class Skills: The fighter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Knowledge (History), Listen (Wis), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) ×4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Fighting Style Feats Talent Pool Power of Steel
    1st +1 +2 +1 +1 Aspect, Fighting Styles (2), First in the Fight 1
    2nd +2 +3 +1 +1 Talent Pool 1 1d4
    3rd +3 +3 +2 +2 Armor Mastery, Aspect Ability 2 1d4
    4th +4 +4 +2 +2 Grit, The Power of Steel, Fighting Styles (3) 2 2d4 +1
    5th +5 +4 +3 +3 The Bigger They Are… 3 2d4 +1
    6th +6/+1 +5 +3 +3 Battle Recovery, Aspect Ability 3 3d6 +1
    7th +7/+2 +5 +3 +3 Parry 4 3d6 +1
    8th +8/+3 +6 +4 +4 Man of Action (Swift), Fighting Styles (4) 4 4d6 +2
    9th +9/+4 +6 +4 +4 Aspect Ability 5 4d6 +2
    10th +10/+5 +7 +5 +5 Storm of Steel 5 5d6 +2
    11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +5 +5 …The Harder They Fall 6 5d8 +2
    12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +6 +6 Man of Action (Move), Aspect Ability, Fighting Styles (5) 6 6d8 +3
    13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +6 +6 Flow of Battle 7 6d8 +3
    14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +6 +6 Problem Solver 7 7d8 +3
    15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +7 +7 Aspect Ability 8 7d8 +3
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +7 +7 Man of Action (Standard), Fighting Styles (6) 8 8d10 +4
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +8 +8 Counterattack 9 8d10 +4
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +8 +8 Aspect Ability 9 9d10 +4
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +8 +8 Perfect Warrior 10 9d10 +4
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +9 +9 Man of Action (Full-Round), Fighting Styles (7) 10 10d10 +5

    Proficiencies: A Fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all light, medium, and heavy armors, and with all shields (including Tower Shields). By spending 12 hours practicing with an armor, a shield, or a weapon that he is not proficient with a Fighter gains proficiency with that item. This practice need not be taken consecutively.

    Aspect: Not all warriors are the same. Some are cunning generals, some brilliant leaders, and others pragmatic veterans. At first level, a fighter selects one of three Aspects: Adept, Leader, or Tactician, gaining benefits as shown on the table below-- he gains the listed feat as a bonus feat without needing to meet the prerequisites, and adds the listed skills to his list of class skills. Once selected, a fighter cannot change his Aspect.

    Adept Leader Tactician Barbarian
    Key Ability Wisdom Charisma Intelligence Constitution
    New Skills Autohypnosis, Sense Motive, Survival Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Perform (Weapon Drill), Sense Motive Appraise, Knowledge (all), Speak Language Survival
    Bonus Feat Eyes in the Back of Your Head (Complete Warrior) or Blind-Fight Battlefield Inspiration (Miniatures Handbook) or Skill Focus (Diplomacy) Adaptable Flanker (Player's Handbook 2) or Combat Reflexes Headlong Rush (Races of Faerun) or Improved Bull Rush

    Fighting Styles (Ex): A fighter masters weapons and combat techniques like most men read books. At first level, he creates two fighting styles. At 4th level, and every subsequent 4th level, he may create one additional fighting style.

    For each fighting style, he selects a number of fighter bonus feats or feats with a BAB requirement equal to one-half his fighter level, rounded up. When choosing feats for a fighting style, he may substitute 10+Fighter level for any ability score requirement-- thus, a 4th level Fighter with a Dexterity of 11 could still learn Rapid Shot. He counts as knowing all bonus feats selected for this ability at the same time when it comes to qualifying for feats, prestige classes, and so on.

    He may switch between fighting styles as a free action, gaining the benefits of the bonus feats of whatever style he's currently using. Additionally, he does not provoke attacks of opportunity for attempting combat maneuvers such as trips and grapple attempts.

    First in the Fight (Ex): A fighter adds one half his fighter level to initiative rolls, rounded up.

    Talent Pool (Ex): When the going gets tough, the fighter gets going. Starting at 2nd level, a fighter is granted access to a pool of bonus dice, known as his Talent Pool. At second level, this pool consists of only one d4, but it increases by one dice every even-numbered level. In addition, at levels 6, 10, 16, and 20, the size of the dice increases by one step-- d6s at 6th level, d8s and 10th, and so on.

    At any point in the game, a fighter may expend die from his talent pool to gain a bonus to certain checks. He rolls each expended die and adds the result to his check. He may not expend more dice on a single check than one-half his Aspect's key ability modifier. He must expend dice before rolling the original check.

    When not in combat, expended dice are regenerated at the rate of one die per minute. In addition, at the beginning of each combat encounter— when initiative is rolled— the fighter recovers all expended dice.

    Talent Dice may be expended to benefit any attack roll, damage roll, saving throw, physical ability check (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), or physical skill check (one based on the aforementioned abilities), inn addition to certain extra uses based on the fighter's Aspect:
    • Adepts may expend dice to gain a bonus on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skills.
    • Leaders may expend dice to gain a bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skills.
    • Tacticians may expend dice to gain a bonus on Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skills.
    • Barbarians may expend dice on Survival checks. Additionally, they may add one free Talent Pool die to all Strength checks and Strength-based skills. This bonus die does not count towards the limit.


    Armor Mastery (Ex): Beginning at 3th level, a fighter may reduce the armor check penalty, and increase the maximum Dexterity bonus, of any armor he wears by an amount equal to his Strength modifier. He may also ignore the speed penalty from medium and heavy armor.

    Aspect Ability (Ex): At 3rd level, and every subsequent third level, fighters may select one ability from the lists below. Unless otherwise mentioned, using these abilities is a standard action. You may only use one Aspect Ability per turn.

    Grit (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, a fighter can resist magical and unusual attacks with great fortitude. If he makes a successful Fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as any spell with a saving throw entry of Fortitude partial), he instead completely negates the effect.

    The Power of Steel (Ex): Beginning at 4th level, a fighter's weapons count as magic for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction, and they gain a competence bonus to attack and damage equal to one-fourth his fighter level. Any armor or shield he equips gains an equal bonus, as if enchanted. These bonus does not stack with enhancement bonuses-- use whichever is higher.

    The Bigger They Are... (Ex): Bigger isn't always better. Beginning at 5th level, when attempting a combat maneuver against a larger foe, a fighter gains a +4 bonus to opposed Strength checks, grapple checks, and the like, effectively cancelling out one size category's worth of difference. He may also attempt combat maneuvers that are normally limited by size as though he was one size category larger.

    At 8th level, this bonus improves to +8 against foes who are two size categories or more larger than him, effectively cancelling out two size categories worth of difference. Against foes one size larger than the fighter, this bonus is still only +4. For example, a medium sized fighter would have a +4 bonus to grapple checks against and ogre (large size), but a +8 bonus against a cloud giant (huge size). He may also attempt combat maneuvers that are normally limited by size as though he was two size categories larger.

    Battle Recovery(Ex): At 6th level, a fighter regains a number of Talent Pool dice at the beginning of each of his turns equal to one-half his key ability modifier.

    Parry (Ex): Beginning at 7th level, when a foe makes an attack roll against a fighter, he may, as a free action, expend a Talent Pool die and make an attack roll of his own, at his highest base attack bonus. If his attack roll exceeds his foe's, the foe's attack misses. If the fighter's is lower, he is considered flat-footed against the attack.

    Fighters may add their shield bonus to this attack roll, and take a -4 penalty to this attack roll for each size category that their foe is larger than them— however, both “The Bigger They Are…” and “…The Harder the Fall” may be used to reduce this penalty.

    A fighter may spend two dice to use this ability to defend an ally. If the fighter's attack roll is less than his foe's, the fighter is left flat-footed, and the attack targets the ally's armor class as normal.

    Man of Action(Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a fighter may take an extra swift or immediate action each turn. Beginning at 12th level, he may take an extra swift, immediate, or move action. At 16th, he may take an extra swift, immediate, move, or standard action, and at 20th, he can instead take an extra full-round action.

    Storm of Steel (Ex): By 10th level, a fighter’s mastery of combat leaves others in the dust. Whenever they would be allowed to make a single attack, such as when making an attack of opportunity, charging, or taking a standard action to attack, they may make a second attack at a -5 penalt

    ...The Harder They Fall (Ex): Beginning at 11th level, when attempting a combat maneuver against a larger foe, a fighter gains a bonus to opposed Strength checks, grapple checks, and so on equal to his opponent's size bonus his own size bonus, effectively cancelling out all size differences. He no longer has size-based limits on what creatures he can attempt combat maneuvers against. This ability effectively replaces “The Bigger They Are..."

    Flow of Battle (Ex): Beginning at 13th level, a fighter no longer provokes attacks of opportunity from foes with fewer fighter levels than him.

    Problem Solver (Ex): Starting at 14th level, a Fighter may ready contingent actions any time he is able to rest for at least 5 minutes. Contingent actions are like readied actions (PHB 160) except that they remain readied indefinitely and after a contingent action has been taken, the Fighter's initiative count does not change. To ready a contingent action, a fighter must set aside a die from his Talent Pool-- he does not gain that die when the pool refreshes, through the use of his Battle Recover ability, or by any other means until he either takes the readied action or de-readies it, at which point the die is expended, and can be recovered normally. A Fighter can only ready number of contingent actions equal to or less than his key ability modifier.
    (Credit: Ziegander; tweaked for integration with the Talent Pool)

    Counterattack (Ex): By 17th level, a fighter’s skill is such that he punishes foes for the slightest mistake.
    • While wielding a melee weapon (including unarmed strikes), if a foe within his reach makes a melee attack against the fighter and misses, he may expend a Talent Pool die to immediately make a single melee attack against them at his full base attack bonus.
    • While wielding a ranged weapon, if a foe within one range increment of his weapon makes a ranged attack against the fighter and misses, he may expend a Talent Pool die to immediately make a single ranged attack against them at his full base attack bonus.


    Perfect Warrior (Ex): At 19th level, a fighter may take ten on attack rolls.

    Aspect Abilities

    Universal
    Spoiler
    Show
    • Adaptable Offense: You gain any one of a number of bonuses, depending on what kind of weapon you are wielding.

    • When wielding a shield, you may add the shield bonus to your touch AC.
    • When wielding two weapons and making a single melee attack, such as when making an attack of opportunity or taking a standard action to attack, you may also make a second attack with your off-hand weapon.
    • When wielding a weapon with reach, you may threaten and attack adjacent squares without penalty for one round.
    • When wielding a ranged weapon, you ignore attacks of opportunity due to firing while in melee for one turn.
    • Cunning Step: You gain a 10 foot bonus to movement speed and may ignore difficult terrain. In addition, you may expend two Talent Pool dice to ignore magic that usually impedes movement, such as solid fog, slow, and web, for one round.
    • Defend: Pick one adjacent ally and expend three Talent Pool die. For one round, all attacks against that ally have a miss chance equal to five times your fighter level.
    • Masterstroke: When making a melee or ranged attack, you may expend two Talent Pool dice to let that attack bypass all hardness and damage reduction.
    • Mobile Combatant: As an immediate action, expend four Talent Pool dice to move up to your speed.
    • Roving Warrior: When a opponent within a fighter's reach takes a five-foot step, he may, as an immediate action, move five feet to remain within reach of the foe. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity.
    • Perfect Shot: When making a melee or ranged attack, you may expend two Talent Pool dice to let that attack ignore wind effects and miss chances due to cover or concealment.
    • Take the Hit: When an adjacent ally is targeted by a melee or ranged attack, you may expend one Talent Pool die to become the new target of the attack. If an ally within 30 feet is being attacked, you may spend an additional Talent Pool die as an immediate action to move next to him. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity.
    • Unyielding Attack: When making a full attack, you may spend one Talent Die to allow an iterative attack to strike at your full Base Attack Bonus. This may be done as many times per round as the Fighter has Iterative Attacks.


    Adept
    Spoiler
    Show
    • Adaptive Defense: After an opponent makes a melee or ranged attack against you, you may spend a Talent Die as a free action to gain an insight bonus to AC equal to your Wisdom modifier against the next 1d4 attacks made against you by that foe.
    • Exploitation: As a swift action, expend a Talent Pool die and make a Sense Motive check, with a DC equal to the opponent's armor bonuses plus his Base Attack Bonus (AC-10+BAB). If successful, treat your next attack against that foe as a touch attack.
    • My Turn: If you successfully defend against an opponent's Trip, Disarm, Bull Rush, or Grapple check, you may expend one Talent Die to attempt the same maneuver against the opponent.
    • On the Edge: You may spend Talent Pool dice to grant yourself and all allies within 50 feet who can see and hear you a bonus to initiative.
    • Reading: An Adept may spend a swift action and a Talent Pool die to read a foe within 50 feet (Sense Motive Check vs 10+Enemy's Attack Bonus+Wisdom Bonus). If successful, the next attack or spell cast by that foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the Adept.
    • Superior Position: After an enemy attack misses you, you may spend a Talent Dice as an immediate action to take a 5-foot step.


    Leader
    Spoiler
    Show
    • Followers: You gain your own squad of soldiers. You gain one soldier per point of your Charisma modifier. Each soldier is a Warrior of one third your fighter level (rounded down), using the elite array for stats, and begins with masterwork equipment. Your soldiers have an initial attitude of Helpful towards you; this can be lowered by your behavior. If their attitude ever drops to Indifferent or below, they leave. If your soldiers die or leave, you may recruit new soldiers at any reasonably large city, as defined by the DM, at a rate of 2d6 hours per soldier. You may recruit commoners as soldiers as well, allowing you to replenish your squad from smaller towns, but doing so requires another 2d6 days of training, and you must provide equipment. If soldiers have recently left you because of ill treatment, recruiting replacements takes 1d6 days per soldier.
    • Inspire: When an ally within 30 feet rolls a saving throw against an ongoing effect, or against fear, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice up to your Charisma modifier. Roll these dice, and grant your ally a morale bonus to his saving throw equal to the result. You must expend the die before your ally sees the result of his roll.
    • Lead From the Front: You may expend two Talent Pool dice to grant an ally within 30 feet a single move action, to be taken immediately.
    • Overcome: Expend two Talent Pool dice to grant an ally within 30 feet a new saving throw against an ongoing effect.
    • Press the Attack: As a few action after reducing a foe to zero or fewer hit points, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice. For every three dice expended in this fashion, an ally within 30 feet may immediately make a ranged or melee attack.
    • Squad Combat: Adjacent allies gain a bonus to attack and AC equal to one-third your fighter level.
    • Teamwork: You may expend Talent Pool dice to grant a bonus to the attack and damage rolls of allies flanking a foe with you.
    • Vengeance is Ours: If an ally within 30 feet is reduced to zero or fewer hit points, all other allies within 30 feet, including you, gain damage reduction and a morale bonus to attack rolls and Will saves equal to your Charisma modifier for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier.


    Tactician
    Spoiler
    Show
    • Called Shot: When making a melee or ranged attack, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice without gaining the normal bonus for doing so. If your target is hit, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + number of expended die + Intelligence modifier) or take one point of damage to a physical ability per expended die.
    • Denial: When an enemy within your reach attempts to use a spell or spell-like ability, you may, as an immediate action, expend two Talent Pool dice and make a single melee attack against the caster. If you successfully hit and deal damage, the spell is countered and the enemy's action is wasted.
    • Halt: If you make a successful attack of opportunity, you may expend one Talent Pool die to end your opponent's move action on the spot, even if he could normally move farther.
    • Reaction Tactics: When making attacks of opportunity, or using your Counterattack class ability, you may make a combat maneuver (trip, disarm, bull rush, and so on) in place of a standard melee attack.
    • Stand and Fight: As an immediate action, expend three Talent Pool dice to prevent a foe from leaving your threatened area with his current move action.
    • Watchful Blade: Pick one foe within 50 feet and expend three Talent Pool dice. For one round, all of that foe’s actions provoke attacks of opportunity from you.
    • Wounding Strike: After striking a foe with a ranged or melee attack, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice. For one die, the attack bypasses regeneration and deals lethal damage. For two dice, the damage caused by the attack does not heal naturally or magically must until the target is the benefit of a Heal check with a DC equal to the fighter’s level plus his Intelligence modifier, or the spell has no effect.
    • Victor of a Thousand Battles: You gain the Bardic Knowledge special ability. In addition, you may expend one die from your Talent Pool to gain one use of the Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion), picking a single type of monster to make a check and gain bonuses against. If you have the Knowledge Devotion feat, you may instead add one free Talent Pool die towards checks made to activate it. This die does not count towards the normal maximum.


    Barbarian
    Spoiler
    Show
    • Rage: As a swift action, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice to enter a rage. You gain a morale bonus to Strength and Constitution equal to the maximum value of your die for 2 rounds, plus 1 round per die expended. Afterwards, you're fatigued for one minute per round of rage. While raging, you cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), any abilities that require patience or concentration, and you cannot cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. You can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats.
    • Steel Spirit: As an immediate action when struck by an attack, you may expend any number of Talent Pool dice. Roll all dice and subtract the result from the incoming damage.
    • Eye of Hate: You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Charisma modifier when making Intimidate checks. You may also make an Intimidate check in place of a Gather Information check.
    • Bite Yourself: As a standard action, make a melee touch attack against a foe. If you succeed, the two of you make opposed grapple attempts. If you succeed, you cause your enemy to injure itself with its own weapon, dealing damage equal to the weapon's base damage plus your Strength modifier, +4 for every size category larger than your foe you are. You may use this ability with natural and manufactured weapons alike.
    • Brutal Leap: As a move action, expend any number of Talent Pool dice and leap ten feet in any direction per die expended. This leap may carry you in any direction without penalty, even straight up. You may take the rest of your actions during this movement.
    • Massive Blow: After striking a foe with a melee attack, expend a Talent Pool die to make a Bull Rush attempt as a free action. You do not have to move with your foe to push them the full distance. If the movement would push your target into a solid object, their movement stops as normal and they take 2d6 damage, +2d6 damage per 5ft of remaining movement.


    Alternate Class Features
    Strategy
    Level: 1
    Lose: Fighting Styles
    Gain:

    Strategy (Ex): A Fighter begins play with the knowledge of three Fighter Bonus Feats, which he adds to his Repertoire. He may not use any of these three feats to meet the prerequisites for one another. At every level after 1st, the Fighter adds a new Fighter Bonus Feat to his Repertoire.

    A Fighter is also able to add Fighter Bonus Feats to his Repertoire through practice and/or observation with a successful Martial Lore check (DC 20 + 1 per Base Attack Bonus or Fighter level requirement in the feat's prerequisites +2 for each other feat among the feat's prerequisites). Anytime a creature within 30ft of the Fighter actively uses the benefit of a Fighter Bonus Feat it knows that the Fighter doesn't know, the Fighter should be given an opportunity to identify that feat with a Martial Lore check. A fighter can subsequently attempt to master any feat identified in this manner with an hour of exercise.

    If the Fighter is able to hire someone to teach him a feat (Hireling level × the Martial Lore DC gp per day), the DC to learn it is reduced by 10. Learning a feat in this way is easier, but takes longer, requiring one day (8 hours per day) of practice per 5 points of the feat's Martial Lore DC. At the end of this period, the Fighter makes a Martial Lore check against the reduced DC. If this check is successful, the Fighter adds the feat to his Repertoire. If not, he may pay his tutor for additional training.

    Martial Lore and Learning Feats
    DC Situation
    20 Add a feat to your Repertoire
    +1 per point of BAB in the feat's prerequisites
    +1 per point of Fighter Level requirements in the feat's prerequisites
    +2 prerequisite feat
    -10 trainer

    At the start of every combat encounter, a Fighter forms a Strategy from among the Fighter Bonus Feats in his Repertoire, choosing a number of such feats as given in the table above. This costs the Fighter no actions and is done even before his first turn. The Fighter gains the full benefits of the bonus feats in his Strategy, but no benefits from bonus feats which are in his Repertoire but not currently part of his Strategy.

    At the start of each of his turns, before he takes any other actions, a Fighter may spend a swift action to form a new Strategy.
    (Credit: Ziegander; slight tweaks by me)


    Traditional Talent
    Level: 2
    Lose: Talent Pool
    Gain:

    Talent Points-- Instead of dice, you gain Talent points. These function exactly as Talent dice, but use one-half your key ability modifier in place of the die result.

    Beginning at second level, a fighter can draw upon a pool of skill and toughness far in excess of normal warriors. He gains a number of Talent points equal to his fighter level plus his key ability modifier. This pool may be refilled with 8 hours of rest. In addition, at the beginning of each combat encounter, he regains a number of points equal to his key ability modifier. This gain cannot cause his number of Talent points to exceed his normal maximum.

    A fighter may expend one Talent point to gain a competence bonus equal to his key ability modifier on one attack roll, damage roll, saving throw, physical ability check (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), or physical skill check (one based on the aforementioned abilities), in addition to certain extra uses based on the fighter's Aspect. He may expend no more than one-half his key ability modifier points to boost a single roll.
    • Adepts may expend points to gain a bonus on Wisdom checks and Wisdom-based skills.
    • Leaders may expend points to gain a bonus on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skills.
    • Tacticians may expend points to gain a bonus on Intelligence checks and Intelligence-based skills.
    • Barbarians may expend points to gain a bonus on Survival checks. Additionally, when expending points to boost Strength-based checks and skills, multiply the bonus by two.


    Favored Style
    Level: 1
    Lose: One Fighting Style
    Gain: The fighting style
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2018-04-22 at 07:27 PM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Power-wise and option-wise, it's effective. I'll give you that.

    The obvious problem is bookkeeping.
    Constantly choosing your feats is the lesser issue.
    The more significant problem is Talent Pool tracking. While on paper it seems great to have so many resources, eventually it'll become a burden.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    The obvious problem is bookkeeping.
    Constantly choosing your feats is the lesser issue.
    The more significant problem is Talent Pool tracking. While on paper it seems great to have so many resources, eventually it'll become a burden.
    You think? I playtested a previous Talent Pool build. While it was at a relatively low level (I think it was level 4), it wasn't at all hard to keep track of the dice. At the beginning of combat, you pile up XdY. Whenever you expend them, you take 'em out of the pile. Piece of cake.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Belial_the_Leveler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    A very nice fighter fix in some aspects - I really like how Talent Pool gives some out of combat utility and skill-boosting. There are, IMHO, some issues though;


    1) Not actually the best in melee combat in higher levels. He gets outfought by CoDzillas in melee (though by a far narrower margin than before) and a wizard that's incorporeal all it has to do is dispel his weapon and the fighter can no longer harm him. I'd suggest at least let "The Power of Steel" have the fighter's weapon count as magical for all purposes that would be beneficial, not just bypassing DR. And then add some abilities that help him outfight buffed foes.

    2) Doesn't help much against flying enemies, overcoming terrain obstacles and having the kind of mobility that is needed in higher levels. A fighter that can't get to his enemy through difficult terrain or due to a 15-foot chasm/river/whatever isn't going to be very useful.

    3) Doesn't have ways to help the rest of the party. Can't actively defend the squishier party members or provide them with combat bonuses; I'd expect a brilliant tactician or great warlord to be able to devise beneficial tactics and lead people in combat at least.

    4) No customization beyond his feats. That's my biggest issue. The abilities other than the feats are pretty much fixed whereas any spellcaster can memorize new spells with a day's rest.


    If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ziegander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pabrygg Keep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Before I get to critiquing this specifically, I want to post a thread of my own. I have a lot to discuss and I don't want to hijack this or the other fighter thread currently going.
    Homebrew


    Other Stuff
    Spoiler
    Show
    Special Thanks: Kymme! You and your awesome avatarist skills have made me a Lore Warden in addition to King of Fighter Fixes!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Belial_the_Leveler View Post
    1) Not actually the best in melee combat in higher levels. He gets outfought by CoDzillas in melee (though by a far narrower margin than before) and a wizard that's incorporeal all it has to do is dispel his weapon and the fighter can no longer harm him. I'd suggest at least let "The Power of Steel" have the fighter's weapon count as magical for all purposes that would be beneficial, not just bypassing DR. And then add some abilities that help him outfight buffed foes.
    I'm not too concerned with stacking up against heavily-buffed-for-melee T1 classes. My balance point here is ToB classes, not an optimized-for-melee druid.

    2) Doesn't help much against flying enemies, overcoming terrain obstacles and having the kind of mobility that is needed in higher levels. A fighter that can't get to his enemy through difficult terrain or due to a 15-foot chasm/river/whatever isn't going to be very useful.
    "A swarm of harpies? Well, let me switch all my feats to archery, pull out my backup bow-that's-effectively-a-magic-item-now, and have at them!"

    And as for mobility at higher levels... he has a lot more than most, given his action-economy-breaking abilities. Difficult terrain is a problem, I admit. Hmm... an ability to get big bonuses when using Talent Pool dice for mobility wouldn't go amiss...

    3) Doesn't have ways to help the rest of the party. Can't actively defend the squishier party members or provide them with combat bonuses; I'd expect a brilliant tactician or great warlord to be able to devise beneficial tactics and lead people in combat at least.
    The Leader can lend out bonus feats, but you're right. There's more that can be done here. On the other hand, I don't want to clog things up too much-- he already has a lot going on mechanically-speaking... I suppose I could port some of the aspect abilities from my last draft as super-special fighter bonus feats.

    4) No customization beyond his feats. That's my biggest issue. The abilities other than the feats are pretty much fixed whereas any spellcaster can memorize new spells with a day's rest.
    Did, ah... did you read the Strategy section, there? He learns feats like a wizard learns spells, and he chooses the feats he wants to be using every round. And the three different aspects should lend themselves to different playstyles-- they grant/boost different skills, regain dice in different ways...

    UPDATE: Parry may now be used to defend allies, and Roving Warrior/Warlord now provide some mobility bonuses.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-03-16 at 10:58 PM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    You think? I playtested a previous Talent Pool build. While it was at a relatively low level (I think it was level 4), it wasn't at all hard to keep track of the dice. At the beginning of combat, you pile up XdY. Whenever you expend them, you take 'em out of the pile. Piece of cake.
    Yes, but then comes level 5...

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Yes, but then comes level 5...
    Leaving aside the fact that level 4 and 5 have the same number of dice... you ultimately wind up with 10 dice/points to track. Is that really too much to keep track of?

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Leaving aside the fact that level 4 and 5 have the same number of dice... you ultimately wind up with 10 dice/points to track. Is that really too much to keep track of?
    When it happens several times per round... practically each round (expend and regain), it seems compelling (unless I misread the rules somehow) that the answer would be "yes".

    Sure, it's not gonna be too much at 5th, but at 11th, with Combat Reflexes... I predict a real "festival" (as Ashtagon put it) of dice tracking.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    OKAY, big changes, ladies and gents. Most notably, I've brought back Aspect Abilities from my own fix, and simplified Talent Pool die recovery. What do we think; too much?

    Things that I might look at cutting, in order of most to least disposable:
    • First in the Fight
    • The Power of Steel
    • Counterattack
    • Storm of Steel
    • Problem Solver
    • Veteran of a Thousand Battles
    • The Bigger They Are/The Harder They Fall


    Also, the class now features, by my count:

    Spoiler
    Show
    • Feat flexibility
    • Weapon flexibility
    • Unique class abilities
    • Character-specific abilities
    • In-combat flexibility (maneuvers are practical; abilities)
    • Out-of-combat flexibility (good skill list bolstered by the talent pool)
    • Mobility
    • Action-economy manipulation
    • Ally defense
    • Ally buffing
    • Tanking
    • Disruption
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-03-20 at 03:56 PM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Nothing? I'm a bit nervous that he's a mite too strong, compared to a Warblade or Swordsage... and possibly MAD... and that the two main mechanisms (Strategy/Repertoire and the Talent Pool) don't mesh together well enough.

    Also, as a plausible and simpler alternative to the Repertoire... (I guess consider this an ACF?)

    Combat Versatility: At first level, choose three weapon groups. For each weapon group, you may select a number of fighter bonus feats equal to one-half your fighter level, rounded up. (See the "Strategy" column). Whenever you wield a weapon from the specified group, you gain the chosen bonus feats.

    At 4th level, and every subsequent 4th level, pick one new weapon group.

    You may select the same weapon group more than once. If you do so, you gain a second set of bonus feats usable with that weapon. When wielding the weapon in question, you may switch between sets of bonus feats as an immediate action.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-03-22 at 09:55 AM.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    anacalgion's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't freeform style currently do nothing for tactitians?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Combat Versatility might be a better way to go. I like the idea of being able to build a fighting style for each weapon group more than trying to figure out what set of feats will work best for an encounter. I'd rather not have to wait on a player who's changing his feats at the beginning of every turn because he's not sure which combo he likes more. With an experienced player it probably wouldn't be so bad, but we always seem to assume that fighter is the starter class.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    I like Strategy. I've got a fighter fix of my own in the works (who doesn't? Oh, and a small one I actually posted), and it also did feat-swapping. I like the execution of Strategy, you get as many feats 'active' at a time as a normal fighter, but you have that many again feats 'known' to swap out with. I think I like not being able to change the feats every round, that would bog things down a lot. I think its a pretty decent middle ground between being able to pick any feat in the book, and the static feats.

    I surprisingly like the Talent Pool. Or rather, I didn't like it on its face, but as I read the entire class and saw how it all fit, it really grew on me. You can do really neat things, but not every single round. You have to plan it out a bit. And I think the regeneration rate from Battle Recovery is good, and learned at an appropriate level.

    I really like Armor Mastery. The no speed penalty thing seems like a necessary/default part of most fighters. But I think reducing ACP by your Strength modifier is almost a stroke of genius. Yeah this is just a tiny thing, but I just love it. I might steal it for something.

    The Aspect Abilities are great. They're the customization that basically everyone says is what they expect from a fighter. And they're not feats, and for the most part don't even emulate feats. They are strong, desirable class features, and give further identity to the Aspects. At one point I wanted to create three different figher flavors, one for each mental score. You did it in one! Bravo!
    Last edited by blackmage; 2013-03-22 at 02:00 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by anacalgion View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't freeform style currently do nothing for tactitians?
    Whoops. I'll, err... figure something out, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by zabbarot View Post
    Combat Versatility might be a better way to go. I like the idea of being able to build a fighting style for each weapon group more than trying to figure out what set of feats will work best for an encounter. I'd rather not have to wait on a player who's changing his feats at the beginning of every turn because he's not sure which combo he likes more. With an experienced player it probably wouldn't be so bad, but we always seem to assume that fighter is the starter class.
    I'll move it up to the first post as an "official" ACF.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackmage View Post
    I like Strategy. I've got a fighter fix of my own in the works (who doesn't? Oh, and a small one I actually posted), and it also did feat-swapping. I like the execution of Strategy, you get as many feats 'active' at a time as a normal fighter, but you have that many again feats 'known' to swap out with. I think I like not being able to change the feats every round, that would bog things down a lot. I think its a pretty decent middle ground between being able to pick any feat in the book, and the static feats.
    Thanks. All credit for that one goes to Ziegander.

    I surprisingly like the Talent Pool. Or rather, I didn't like it on its face, but as I read the entire class and saw how it all fit, it really grew on me. You can do really neat things, but not every single round. You have to plan it out a bit. And I think the regeneration rate from Battle Recovery is good, and learned at an appropriate level.
    Thanks!

    I really like Armor Mastery. The no speed penalty thing seems like a necessary/default part of most fighters. But I think reducing ACP by your Strength modifier is almost a stroke of genius. Yeah this is just a tiny thing, but I just love it. I might steal it for something.
    Feel free.

    The Aspect Abilities are great. They're the customization that basically everyone says is what they expect from a fighter. And they're not feats, and for the most part don't even emulate feats. They are strong, desirable class features, and give further identity to the Aspects. At one point I wanted to create three different figher flavors, one for each mental score. You did it in one! Bravo!
    Thank you.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Started working on some simplifying ACFs-- one to remove the feat reshuffling, and one to simplify the Talent Pool. But I'm stuck on what to replace Adaptive Style with... and what the Tactician's Adaptive Style ability should be. It could be "pick any fighter bonus feat," but that goes back to the mid-battle book searching that I wanted to avoid. Hmm...

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    How about something like:

    Tactician: As an immediate action, the fighter may expend one die from his Talent Pool to deny an opponent the use of one of their feats.

    This would require someway for the fighter to justifiably know what feats the opponent had, but I could see it being pretty useful in some situations.

    Edit: There should probably be a save roll for the enemy. And maybe one of those clauses like uncanny dodge, "will not work on a fighter of higher level" kinda thing.
    Last edited by zabbarot; 2013-03-25 at 01:37 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Greenish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Strategy (Ex): A Fighter begins play with the knowledge of three Fighter Bonus Feats, which he adds to his Repertoire. He may not use any of these three feats to meet the prerequisites for one another. At every level after 1st, the Fighter adds a new Fighter Bonus Feat to his Repertoire.
    Can you use the Repertoire feats in general as prerequisites for each other, just not the ones on first level? What's that limit meant to achieve anyway?
    Quotes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Maximus View Post
    Also fixed the money issue by sacrificing a goat.
    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This board needs a "you're technically right but I still want to crawl into the fetal position and cry" emoticon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    I define [optimization] as "the process by which one attains a build meeting all mechanical and characterization goals set out by the creator prior to its creation."
    Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Vortalism's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    This homebrew is really great, exactly what a fighter needs, and more. It's obviously gonna be for more experienced players but I got one fighter enthusiast who might be willing to give it a try.

    However I have a question about the Perfect Warrior ability. How exactly does it work? the wording is making it a bit hard for me to get properly? Wouldn't rolling an average of 10 against high AC enemies (which you would most likely be facing at 20th level) sort of bad? I'm a bit confused.

    On the other hand, with all the bonuses that the fighter would accumulate, that would mean without interference the fighter would auto-hit most enemies...
    Last edited by Vortalism; 2013-07-23 at 09:23 AM.
    Avatar by Kris On a Stick.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vortalism View Post
    However I have a question about the Perfect Warrior ability. How exactly does it work? the wording is making it a bit hard for me to get properly? Wouldn't rolling an average of 10 against high AC enemies (which you would most likely be facing at 20th level) sort of bad? I'm a bit confused.
    Instead of rolling, you calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10 on the d20. My experience with higher-level play has been that attack rolls far outstrip AC, at least for the first few iteratives. Plus, cleaving through minions. And I've got no qualms about auto-hitting at a high level, barring some sort of ubercharger build that was already broken. You've taken 20 levels of straight fighter, enjoy your nice things.

    Glad you like the class, though. Let me know how it works out in play!

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Strategy: A fighter should not gain this benefit at the beginning of an encounter that wasn't preceded by some sort of preperation (interaction/dialogue/observation). In cases of surprise or random encounters, first round should go without any strategy.
    Another problem I see with Strategy is the limitless size of the repertoire pool.
    A fighter should not be able to apply Martial Lore to feats that his current repertoire (added to his normal level-based feats) does not allow him to qualify fore.
    Also, you should set either Int or Wis bonus (or cumulative, if you think it fits) as the maximum value of feats a fighter can add to his repertoire. Anything beyond that should follow the normal retraining rules.


    ...The Harder They Fall: This ability should still not allow a medium sized fighter to pin an elephant or a storm giant in a grapple.



    And just a thought. It might help if you add to each feature's description at which level it is gained. This will save the need to go back to the table to asses things.



    Other than that, this now seems quite solid to me.
    (I have no constructive suggestions for Combat Versatility 17th ATM, but I'm sure you'll figure something out)

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Considering that they still can't grapple them (the class feature doesn't let you grapple larger creatures, it just removes the size bonuses they'd get), they can't pin them.

    Though I see no problem with them pinning an elephant or a storm giant; why do you hate awesome, nonsi?

    By 11th level, you are at the point in your progression where you should be performing mythic feats, like wrasslin' dragons.
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    I do Let's Plays now. Current Game: Rolan's Curse

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    Considering that they still can't grapple them (the class feature doesn't let you grapple larger creatures, it just removes the size bonuses they'd get), they can't pin them.

    Though I see no problem with them pinning an elephant or a storm giant; why do you hate awesome, nonsi?

    By 11th level, you are at the point in your progression where you should be performing mythic feats, like wrasslin' dragons.
    By no means do I have any issues with awesome.
    It's just that I don't like things that no matter how hard I try, I just can't visualize them happening (armbarring a 3ft wide limb or choke-holding a 6ft wide neck for instance).
    Grappling is but one of many combat options (bull rush, trip, disarm, sunder, feint come to mind off the bat - and that's before feats come into play). There's plenty of awesome out there even if you can't apply grappling to every single foe (also, Enlarge Person prevails vs. huge opponents).

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Korea
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Does the Able Learner bonus feat granted by choosing the Tactician Aspect override the human or doppelganger prerequisite on the feat? Would somebody multi-classing as this Fighter be able to override the Special clause stating that the feat may only be taken at first level?
    Last edited by Rakoa; 2013-07-27 at 09:47 PM.
    Order of the Stick Avatar done by the talented Kymme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    The Half-Hamster template gives me advantageous size and ability score bonuses, and combos well with my inherited Elderberry Radiance (Ex). Which is more than I can say for you, you class-dipping CL-losing Evoker!
    I was eating THOSE BEANS!!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Strategy: A fighter should not gain this benefit at the beginning of an encounter that wasn't preceded by some sort of preperation (interaction/dialogue/observation). In cases of surprise or random encounters, first round should go without any strategy.
    Mmm... maybe.

    Another problem I see with Strategy is the limitless size of the repertoire pool.
    A fighter should not be able to apply Martial Lore to feats that his current repertoire (added to his normal level-based feats) does not allow him to qualify fore.
    Also, you should set either Int or Wis bonus (or cumulative, if you think it fits) as the maximum value of feats a fighter can add to his repertoire. Anything beyond that should follow the normal retraining rules.
    I disagree. I strongly disagree. As long as we're not allowing infinite Martial Studies.

    ...The Harder They Fall: This ability should still not allow a medium sized fighter to pin an elephant or a storm giant in a grapple.
    It doesn't-- see the normal grapple rules.

    And just a thought. It might help if you add to each feature's description at which level it is gained. This will save the need to go back to the table to asses things.
    They...are in order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakoa View Post
    Does the Able Learner bonus feat granted by choosing the Tactician Aspect override the human or doppelganger prerequisite on the feat? Would somebody multi-classing as this Fighter be able to override the Special clause stating that the feat may only be taken at first level?
    Yes. I'll add a note about that, sorry.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I disagree. I strongly disagree. As long as we're not allowing infinite Martial Studies.
    I still don't understand what you regard to be the limiting factor.
    Seems quite realistic to me that with your rules, a fighter could acquire dozens of feats per level. This both serves no constructive purpose mechanically and adds nothing to realism.
    Correct me if I'm wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    They...are in order?
    Still, it would make things a bit easier to track.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    I still don't understand what you regard to be the limiting factor.
    Seems quite realistic to me that with your rules, a fighter could acquire dozens of feats per level. This both serves no constructive purpose mechanically and adds nothing to realism.
    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    There is no limiting factor. The fighter is to warriors as the wizard is to casters-- both are utter masters of their craft, with techniques for any imaginable situation. Flying target? Form an archery strategy. Lots of mooks? Break out Great Cleave. Mounted combat? Sword-and-board? You name it, he can handle it. It's not "realism." "Realism" is what kills fighter fixes.

    Still, it would make things a bit easier to track.
    I don't understand what you're asking here, since I already have it set up like you suggested, unless I've accidentally switched two abilities around or something.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    There is no limiting factor. The fighter is to warriors as the wizard is to casters-- both are utter masters of their craft, with techniques for any imaginable situation. Flying target? Form an archery strategy. Lots of mooks? Break out Great Cleave. Mounted combat? Sword-and-board? You name it, he can handle it. It's not "realism." "Realism" is what kills fighter fixes.
    Since we're tossing realism out the window, wouldn't it be simpler to just say that a fighter automatically has access to any feat in the game to which s/he qualifies according to class-level and ability-scores?
    Practically the same effect (to a point of one encounter denial per feat) with far less bookkeeping.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I don't understand what you're asking here, since I already have it set up like you suggested, unless I've accidentally switched two abilities around or something.
    I was under the impression that level indication was missing from some of the features.
    Probably read it when I was too tired.
    My bad.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Since we're tossing realism out the window, wouldn't it be simpler to just say that a fighter automatically has access to any feat in the game to which s/he qualifies according to class-level and ability-scores?
    Practically the same effect (to a point of one encounter denial per feat) with far less bookkeeping.
    I've done that with older versions. It's actually more work in the end-- you (the player) have to know every fighter bonus feat in the game. You wind up with much more book diving, more book-diving during combat, and just generally a lot more hassle. The repertoire is much more manageable. Not granting the benefits of all feats at once is in a similar vein-- less to keep track of.

    Besides, I really like how it mechanically represents the idea that you're constantly learning new combat techniques.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: GitP Fighter Fix #18343.3- Ziegander-Grod Tag Team Action!

    As a suggestion, drop the Aspects, but keep their skeleton.

    Some abilities should key off Cha, some off Wis, some off Int. The abilities themselves should use these bonuses.

    Recovery of Talent Pool dice:
    As a standard action, you can roll all of your currently expended dice. Every die that lands odd recovers.

    Battle Recovery lets you do the above at the end of your turn (doing it at the end of your turn makes reactive abilities less wasteful).

    There will still be specializations of fighter (based off their mental attribute), but they will no longer be hard.

    More of the dice abilities should involve rolling dice. As an example:
    Parry: Expend 1 or more talent dice to attempt to parry a blow. Any attack from an enemy within your reach, against an ally within your reach, or that would pass within your reach can be parried.

    Roll each of the dice, keeping the top 2 of them (if you rolled only 1, only use that one), and add your base attack bonus, your shield bonus to AC and your to hit bonuses from your weapon. If you exceed the enemies attack roll, the blow is negated.

    First in the Fight: When you roll initiative you can roll a talent die and add it to your initiative roll.

    Strategy: I'd restrict the number of prepared Strategies a Fighter can have ready. Preparing a new Strategy should take time (an hour is enough). So instead of a near infinite set of feats to look over, a Fighter has a more finite set.

    Changing Strategy might cost a Standard Action (ie, be basically free out of combat, but reasonably expensive in combat).

    This is more flexible than the equivalent prepared spell casters.

    Storm of Steel: Expend dice, and you have to beat 5 to get -5 iterative attacks, and 10 to get -10 iterative attacks, and -15 to get -15 iterative attacks. Nice diminishing returns, and you get to roll dice.

    Talent Pool: Make the levels where you get more dice be different than the ones where your dice get bigger. Ie, gain dice on odd levels, and have your dice get bigger on even. You should cap with d12s, because d12s are awesome.

    Counter Attack: Expend any number of dice. The total, up to your BaB, is used as your BaB on the counter attack.

    Power of Steel: Just make then (Ex) enhancement bonuses, stacking is easier. Have them apply to weapons, armor, ammunition and shields.

    Maybe have some (Ex) enhancement bonuses to physical stats, and even a mental one of your choice (again, a "soft" Aspect choice).

    Ie:
    Brain and Body Conditioning (Ex): At level 5 and every 2 levels afterwards, the Fighter gains an enhancement bonus of 1 to all of their physical attributes (Strength, Constitution, Dexterity) and one Mental (Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma) ability score of their choice score.

    (+8 enhancement bonus to Str, Con, Dex and one Mental stat: it doesn't match CoDzilla or Polymorph buffing, but it is pretty awesome).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •