Is my character a Sue?

[Togath]

While a bit of an odd question in regards to a tabletop RPG, I have been wondering if I character I made for a game(with Naruto d20 as the system) ended up a bit Sue-ish.

Minors notes;
ANBU: an organization used for assassinations and subterfuge.
Soragakure: the main city of the campaign
Tsuijutsu: "axe techniques", a fighting style in the system involving weapons such as axes, clubs and maces.

Keita is also only about fourteen.


Basic description(copied from his sheet);
Keita has a medium frame, and stands fairly tall for his age.
He possesses dark brown hair as well as heterochromia((the term for two eyes of slightly different colours), with his left eye hazel and his right eye brown.
Keita usually wears a light brown T-shirt with a green vest over it, and plain dark brown slacks with sandals.
He wears his forehead protector as a headband and his shoulder length mullet in a simple ponytail.

Friends/Family(spoiled for length);

Spoiler

Show

Goyou Miyabo aka "Karasu"(age 41): the owner of Miyabo's Tea's, and Keita's uncle, he's earned the nickname "Karasu" by the children of the village due to his long nose and wiry frame.

Goyou Lee(age 38): Keita's father, and the younger brother to Miyabo, Lee went through minor shinobi training in his youth, but ultimately never ended up employed as one due to his own clumsiness.

Goyou(orginally Takaharo) Sachiro(age 38): Keita's mother, and owner of Takaharo Carpentry, a minor construction business originally started by her great-grandmother Kirigi

Tokomi Pachi(age 14): a friend of Keita's from the academy, he now is training as a guard and scout for Soragakure.

"Hachi"(unknown exact age, looks to be in his mid twenties): Keita's stealth mentor, a low ranking Anbu. He is usually very quiet(as most Anbu are) but can get quite lively when cooking, despite that, Keita still doesn't know his true name.

Rival:
Kisuchi Miyabi(15): A kunoichi from Keita's academy class, Miyabi is a bit of a rival of Keita's, she currently is undergoing scout training and is very skilled with tsuijutsu.

Personality Aspects(again, copied from his sheet);
Keita is a bit of an odd boy, spending much of his free time learning about tea of all things.
In a crisis he tends to be a bit giddy or nervous, and prefers to try to keep from getting stuck in a bad situation in the first place.

During his time as the academy, Keita was a very attentive student, and often did extra research on lessions involving the history of Soragakure.

Powers:
mainly stealth, relating to disguising himself as others, as well as camouflage and moving quietly, he can also summon humanoid lizards(which can be many different roles) and create blasts of stone(though he needs the stone[or soil] to be there in the first place, so it's like earth bending in Avatar)

Misc:
when threatened with death from two sides in a fight(whichever side he didn't aid) he chose to aid the one that he thought would have caused a more painful death, cowering once that side was defeated and he tried to convince the other side(led by a ruthless assassin) to offer him mercy for his treason(since he aided the one at war with his own village).
the Gm decided to have the assassin spare him, as long as he didn't betray his village again, but i am some what worried I made the character a bit o a Sue

[Vitruviansquid]

If you have to ask - yes.

That's my rule of thumb, at least.

[Yora]

Why? This doesn't sound in any way special, even if you were not playing Naruto.

And to be really obnoxious, you would have to be constantly more competent than supposed specialists and beloved by most people for no apparent reasons. Both of which are not in your hands as a PC.

[Togath]

Why? This doesn't sound in any way special, even if you were not playing Naruto.

And to be really obnoxious, you would have to be constantly more competent than supposed specialists and beloved by most people for no apparent reasons. Both of which are not in your hands as a PC.

Ah, in that case I'll keep him the way he is then(to be honest, I'd mostly worried about his eyes.. but then again I suppose in the setting it isn't that strange, since some characters[in both canon, and making up about half of the party in this campaign] have symbols on their eyes, or even multiple pupils)

[ArcturusV]

Well, I'd say the 14 and already an ANBU type would mark it out as a Mary Sueish character.

Note that at age 14... most ninja are just becoming Genin. Least as we see in source material. And at age 14 you are already in an elite cadre second only to Legends and Kages.

That would be the primary mark at this time. The fact he remains an ANBU after effectively betraying his own nation seems odd. Not entirely in that category but could be. Your DM should probably have your character demoted for your treason under duress.

[Kish]

Does the world warp around the character?

If he's competent, even amazingly competent, that's fine. If he never makes mistakes, that...is probably not fine but doesn't actually make him a Mary Sue. If people or the world reacts to him in a way that doesn't make sense, that's the problem.

[Amaril]

I'm pretty sure Itachi was only a Jonin at 14, and he's supposed to have been one of the most gifted Shinobi in the nation, if not the world. Might want to scale it back a bit if you don't want to be at that level.

However, Naruto is filled with incredibly powerful characters who are virtually infallible...in fact, one of the few things that bugs me about the series is that the power level of characters just never seems to stop increasing. First we have Sasuke, then Neji, then Gaara, then Itachi, then others I'm sure (I'm only up to book 28, so no spoilers please), and each one was supposed to be "the most talented Shinobi you'll ever meet" until the next one comes along and makes them look like a complete noob. With this in mind, it seems pretty hard to create Mary Sue characters in Naruto, so you probably don't need to worry too much.

[Togath]

Ironically, I'd actually planned to put him at an older age, but realized(on the last day the GM had the recruiting thread open) that he had the age range set to 12-14, with characters fresh out of the academy.

On the plus side though, he isn't an official member of the ANBU yet, he just aspires to become one, and has just been sent on his first mission(just a standard.. well, I'd assumed low rank one anyway)until he(and the other new player, since it's an ongoing campaign and the GM needed two more players since two left) arrived and were put into battle with the guy who assassinated the leader of the main village in the campaign, who is basically(stat/theme wise) Itachi, just renamed and refluffed(slightly)

The character also might still e punished for his action, though it looks like he's gotten out of being executed by his team

[Traab]

I dont think Sue is the right term for this case. Its more likely overoptimized? Munchkined? A Sue is a character with no flaws that has everything in the narrative revolve around them and is overpowered. Unless you are creating a dmpc I dont think it could be considered a mary sue.

[Analytica]

IIRC Kakashi was an ANBU at that stage, and I think Neji may have been as well. Not sure about Haku, but he could certainly pass as (missing-nin) ANBU. I think Sai counts as well.

The setting is about child soldiers, and include bloodlines, early trauma and orphaning as a commonly used explanation for why these kind of early geniuses are so common. Moreover, RPGs do not have to be about playing randomly sampled inhabitants of the game world; in many cases we explicitly want to be special. Naruto is particularly good since it contains so many different ways in which characters may be special. Just make sure your stats actually match up with your status, i.e. if you are ANBU you should be able to match the expectations, or else be one due to some unique capacity they need.

when threatened with death from two sides in a fight(whichever side he didn't aid) he chose to aid the one that he thought would have caused a more painful death, cowering once that side was defeated and he tried to convince the other side(led by a ruthless assassin) to offer him mercy for his treason(since he aided the one at war with his own village).
the Gm decided to have the assassin spare him, as long as he didn't betray his village again, but i am some what worried I made the character a bit o a Sue

This also fits Naruto well. It also does mean that at some point in the campaign, there really needs to be a near-defeat where you get a similar offer from the enemy to betray your side. Then, after several game sessions of flashbacks to this part of your past, you instead this time overcome your fears, fight with redoubled strength for your comrades, emerges victorious, and redeem yourself. Probably inspired by some perky shounen protagonist you encountered on the way and who scolded you for not letting go of the past.

[Daftendirekt]

Well, I'd say the 14 and already an ANBU type would mark it out as a Mary Sueish character.

Note that at age 14... most ninja are just becoming Genin. Least as we see in source material. And at age 14 you are already in an elite cadre second only to Legends and Kages.

Eh. Look at Kakashi. Or Itachi.

[The Fury]

I dont think Sue is the right term for this case. Its more likely overoptimized? Munchkined? A Sue is a character with no flaws that has everything in the narrative revolve around them and is overpowered. Unless you are creating a dmpc I dont think it could be considered a mary sue.

I respectfully disagree. While RPG characters are less likely to be Sues because their players typically are not in full control of the narrative there's still some definite Sue-traits they can have. Usually if a player is told to describe their character and goes into a lengthy description of the character's (improbable?) hair, clothes, eyes, etc. that's a red flag for me. Not that that automatically makes them a Mary Sue. I generally don't start throwing that term around unless the character has something about themselves which makes no sense given character background, personality and whatnot.
Just for examples; a character who's a boisterous lout with no ability to think strategically, acts on impulse alone, yet is an officer in the royal army. Or a character that grew up as an orphan on the streets yet owns an ancestral greatsword used by his his father.

Back to the subject at hand, given what I know of Naruto, (which isn't much,) your character doesn't come off as Sue-ish. He seems pretty down to earth in fact.

[Sith_Happens]

Eh. Look at Kakashi. Or Itachi.

I'm not sure that Itachi is the best counter example. Sure I absolutely love him as a character, but he's definitely got some serious author favoritism going on.

[Amaril]

Just out of curiosity, how exactly does unusual hair or eye color contribute to making a character a Sue? I only learned what the term means a couple weeks ago, I'm not familiar with all its possible connotations and qualifying factors.

[ArcturusV]

Well, one of the defining traits of a Mary Sue is that they get to be SPECIAL above everyone else.

Thus being the only character with say, naturally green hair, or red eyes, could fit.

It also usually demands a level of upstaging of everyone else. Thus what I mentioned. The Mary Sue type is often someone who just walks onto the stage and is instantly better than everyone else (Even people who should be better than them). So being a 14 year old ANBU, where other than a few notable Legendary Exceptions as mentioned, are generally someone who had to work for years and years to become one (And were only Genin at age 14), comes to mind.

This is the so called Westley Crusher phenomenon, from Star Trek: The Next Generation. Where this snot nosed kid who wasn't even out of middle school yet was constantly showing up trained, professional Star Fleet Officers who are, realistically, just about at the pinnacle of the setting. In Star Trek Star Fleet Academy Grads are already about the top .01% of all people in their fields. Decades of experience to become an officer means they would be even better. But there he was showing them up as just a kid.

The other sign of Mary Sueness is often having a character whom everything revolves around. If everything has to do with your character, their backstory, their actions, etc, you're probably in that territory.

As mentioned Naruto is a little more forgiving of this because most of the key characters in the series would otherwise fall into this category. For example all the Konoha Genin who are regularly taking on more advanced ninja and coming out on top. Are all "Prodigies" in some field or another who are naturally more gifted than anyone. About the only character I wouldn't mark as being close to that Mary Sue territory necessarily in the setting... least that comes to mind... is Rock Lee. And this is because, even though he is talented... he's talented because he works harder.

To quote Naruto: "Pssh. That guy trains hard. A lot harder than you do Sasuke. That's why he beat you, it wasn't a trick."

But contrast to say, Sasuke, which is a Mary Sue type. I mean, one example of how I frame this up and just how stupidly it's done is the Chuunin Exams arc. What I'm thinking of is how Sasuke supposedly used his Sharingan to copy Rock Lee's techniques. And in fact from the aftermath of his blows compared to Rock Lee, managed to do it BETTER than Rock Lee, after only a couple of weeks of training compared to Rock Lee's years of training to be a High Speed Taijutsu master.

But even more so than that? When Sasuke was supposedly copying Rock Lee's techniques? He was knocked out already. He was comatose. So he managed to copy an ability with his magic Mary Sue eye, when he wasn't even awake to actually see it to copy.

[wumpus]

If you have to ask - yes.

That's my rule of thumb, at least.

I would say, "is she* a DMPC?: if so yes." The world revolving around a Sue all but requires a DMPC (with special exemptions for DM's girl friend and other cases of a specifically exalted player). I would say that munchkin would fit slightly better, except that munchkinism typically requires overpowering the rules and setting (often by blatant cheating) that may not be the case here.

* "he" would be a Marty Stew

[Amaril]

But contrast to say, Sasuke, which is a Mary Sue type. I mean, one example of how I frame this up and just how stupidly it's done is the Chuunin Exams arc. What I'm thinking of is how Sasuke supposedly used his Sharingan to copy Rock Lee's techniques. And in fact from the aftermath of his blows compared to Rock Lee, managed to do it BETTER than Rock Lee, after only a couple of weeks of training compared to Rock Lee's years of training to be a High Speed Taijutsu master.

But even more so than that? When Sasuke was supposedly copying Rock Lee's techniques? He was knocked out already. He was comatose. So he managed to copy an ability with his magic Mary Sue eye, when he wasn't even awake to actually see it to copy.

[RANT]
Garbage like that is the main reason I hate Sasuke's guts. I mean, he's one of the biggest a-holes in any story I've ever read (at least at the beginning--he's improved marginally by the point I'm at, but not much), yet everyone loves him and wants to impress him no matter how badly he treats them. He's practically invincible without having to really do any work, and everything just seems stacked to make him seem more and more unbeatably awesome. Using your example, the first time he fought Lee, he tried to copy and counter Lee's techniques with the Sharingan, but was unable to because even though he understood the moves perfectly, he didn't have the physical capability to react to them in time. Yet just a few scenes later, we see him doing them even better than Lee, with no apparent explanation of how he developed those capabilities. When Naruto finally started catching up to Sasuke enough to be able to beat him, I was incredibly happy, because that little emo prick totally deserves it.
[/RANT]

Sorry about that, I just can't resist the chance to rant about Sasuke. Anyway, thanks for the explanation.

[icefractal]

Doesn't seem too Sue-ish to me. Re: The heterochroma, I think unless you have heterochroma like this:

Spoiler

Show

You really have nothing to worry about. Most of the major characters on there have some kind of odd physical features.


Incidentally, this brings to mind that a Beholder would be about the most powerful thing in the universe in that setting.

[Analytica]

Doesn't seem too Sue-ish to me. Re: The heterochroma, I think unless you have heterochroma like this:

Spoiler

Show

You really have nothing to worry about. Most of the major characters on there have some kind of odd physical features.


Incidentally, this brings to mind that a Beholder would be about the most powerful thing in the universe in that setting.

Needs a Byakugan in the top eye of that mask.

[The Fury]

Well, one of the defining traits of a Mary Sue is that they get to be SPECIAL above everyone else.

Thus being the only character with say, naturally green hair, or red eyes, could fit.

Well, yes that's certainly a part of what can make a character a Mary Sue. Though a character that I made that I worried was a little Sue-ish was actually rather plain-looking. One thing to keep in mind about Sues is that it's a term which varies quite a bit depending on opinion.

The other sign of Mary Sueness is often having a character whom everything revolves around. If everything has to do with your character, their backstory, their actions, etc, you're probably in that territory.

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. That's a much surer sign of a Mary Sue than anything to do with their personal appearance.

[BRC]

It's tricky to be a Sue in an RPG unless the GM is in on it, since the GM controls where the focus of the story goes. You can build your special snowflake princess of a hidden kingdom that everybody loves, but unless the GM makes the game about showing how awesome your character is, you're just going to be an annoying player who spends all the game constantly reminding everybody else who SUPER SPECIAL your character is.

Which, mind you ,is a problem in of itself. But if you're self-aware enough to worry that your character might be a Sue, then you're probably not ruining everybody's fun by harping on about your character.

[ArcturusV]

Well, unless you cheat. Like in one campaign I was in where a guy ran with loaded dice, or maybe it was just how he rolled technique wise, or both, to bend the laws of probability over the kitchen counter and screw 'em hard core.

Which allowed him to play out his Mary Sue beliefs because this guy was suddenly awesome at everything as he Open Rolled on anything, even untrained checks, to a point where he was getting results that characters 15 times his level would have had trouble hitting.

[Sith_Happens]

Just out of curiosity, how exactly does unusual hair or eye color contribute to making a character a Sue?

It doesn't, but there's generally a strong enough correlation to make it an easy red flag.

[Cerlis]

Most people who claim that someone is a mary sue, dont really know what a mary sue is. Oh they have an idea, but really i see people call people sues that are at most 1/4 sues.

as people have said, one of the main things is for the person to have everyone revolve around them. Character flaw? it only makes people love you more or think you are more awesome

and a thing to watch out for is doing stuff just cus its cool. you can have stuff you think is cool, but think it out! its fun!

I will say that I believe its said that Sues have a 40% (or something) chance of having hetero-chromia.

One thing i'd think about is why you wanted that. Possibly because you want characters to look him in the eye and notice him (such as how you can tell a Hyuuga just by looking at their eyes). I think giving him some eye marking (whether its heterochromia or whatnot) because of something. Such as an accident that altered his eye, or a Jutsu he uses that requires a ritualistic altering of his eye. Maybe the lizard king he has a pact with has a eye color and so one of your eyes is colored that way. Or maybe Its a rare condition in your family. Knowing some of the ass things that the families in Naruto do maybe he's supposedly the reincarnation of the family house founder and the reason he is becoming a ninja and obsesses with tea rituals is because he is rejecting his family. Better yet, foil it by having it canon that he ISNT the reincarnation, and the family dont know they are making a big deal about someone who doesnt have anywhere near the same Business talent as his ancestor.

(i say that last bit cus often a lost prince/princess is very sueish too)


-----------------

I dont know Amaril. I'm sure Sasuke would say the exact same thing about Naruto. Hell that is the main reason he goes off the deep end.

[Traab]

I respectfully disagree. While RPG characters are less likely to be Sues because their players typically are not in full control of the narrative there's still some definite Sue-traits they can have. Usually if a player is told to describe their character and goes into a lengthy description of the character's (improbable?) hair, clothes, eyes, etc. that's a red flag for me. Not that that automatically makes them a Mary Sue. I generally don't start throwing that term around unless the character has something about themselves which makes no sense given character background, personality and whatnot.
Just for examples; a character who's a boisterous lout with no ability to think strategically, acts on impulse alone, yet is an officer in the royal army. Or a character that grew up as an orphan on the streets yet owns an ancestral greatsword used by his his father.

Back to the subject at hand, given what I know of Naruto, (which isn't much,) your character doesn't come off as Sue-ish. He seems pretty down to earth in fact.

Well since you did it respectfully, I will not destroy you with my sheer aura of awesomeness. Just dont let it happen again, as I have already countered any plans you may have come up with in a foolhardy attempt to stop me. The thing is, having a few of the symptoms match up doesnt mean you have the disease. As I think someone else said, you can make your character the most awesome special snowflake in the history of creation, but when the story doesnt revolve around them, or if your super cheese ultra powerful character keeps hitting brick walls because the gm has countered your abilities utterly you cant be a real sue.

I mentioned disease for a reason. You cant have a cough and be diagnosed with pneumonia. You need to match up with pretty much all of the symptoms before that can be the diagnosis, because a lot of diseases include coughs. Wanting your character to have an awesome backstory or set of skills IS a red flag, but its only one of many that have to be tripped before a character can be reliably diagnosed as a mary sue. The most likely reason there is a mary sue in your D&D game? There is a dmpc, or the dms girlfriend/love interest is playing. Suddenly every roll is awesome, the conflicts are tailor made for that character to win, and all the npcs cant help but go along with anything they want.

[awa]

now being a sue is a very relative thing and compared to the regular cast you are not a sue but how do you compare to your party?

Your not in a party with naruto and sauska so comparing yourself to them is not entirely relevant. Look at the other characters does your background make you seem wildly more experience/ competent/ special then them? if so there might be a problem.

edit also your disease analogy is pretty wrong
it's not hard to have a disease but not have all the symptoms. In fact it is possible to have a disease and be contagious despite having no symptoms

[randomhero00]

Haha, upon reading the thread title I thought it was misspelled souix (a native american type)

[Togath]

Look at the other characters does your background make you seem wildly more experience/ competent/ special then them? if so there might be a problem.

(I have been reading through this thread, just didn't have much to add since I'm pretty sure now that my character isn't a Sue)
After looking through backgrounds of the other party members, he appears just fine, since his only skills are stealth(and two attack abilities, one a weak poison that has about the same chance to poison him when he uses it as it does to effect an enemy, and what amounts to the Fireball spell in dnd[but limited to only six to eight dice of damage]), and his background has him being in training for someday becoming a member of the ANBU, rather then already being one.

[Sith_Happens]

his background has him being in training for someday becoming a member of the ANBU, rather then already being one.

That's definitely an important distinction. Out of curiosity, what rank is he now? That rather sparse ability list doesn't exactly scream "Jonin," but then again the ANBU as a subset seem to mostly forgo flashy ninjutsu in favor of just being really, really awesome at all the basic skills.

[Togath]

That's definitely an important distinction. Out of curiosity, what rank is he now? That rather sparse ability list doesn't exactly scream "Jonin," but then again the ANBU as a subset seem to mostly forgo flashy ninjutsu in favor of just being really, really awesome at all the basic skills.

He's actually only a genin currently(though by the system we're using[Naruto d20] he'd normally be a chunin by this level, but the GM wanted the character fresh out of the academy)