Results 1 to 30 of 33
-
2013-03-18, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I got the opportunity to play some DnD at my last house, but the guy with all the books moved. I liked the experience and the game in general and I'm thinking of actually going out and getting some guidebooks/source materials. Which do people prefer DnD 3.5 or Pathfinder or some other system? I've heard DnD 4.0 is terrible and Pathfinder seems quite a bit cheaper than DnD (I'd probably go with a PDF version). I like the high fantasy type game and I prefer a focus on RP, but a good system to back it up is important in my opinion. Eventually I would like to maybe DM as well.
Any thoughts? Suggestions?
-
2013-03-18, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
- Location
- Denver
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
D&D 4.0 isn't horrible. It does what it was designed to do well. Regardless, if you are RP heavy and liked 3.5 you may not like 4e. Its spell/ability descriptions are not open ended, so using them out of combat is tough. Not to mention few social mechanics. That may or may not matter to you, some players prefer that to be solved sans dice. I prefer 3.5, but 4e isn't terrible.
You may want to try out the 5e playtest and see how you like it. It has some crazy balance problems and odd design choices, but so does 3.5, and 5e is being worked on/fixed to rebalance some stuff. I doubt it will be balanced, but I bet it will be fun and no worse than 3.5 or PF in that regard. They have some clever mechanics and there will likely be more options/tactics in combat than most of the core classes in 3.5.
Plus, it will be the current game so more material will be in development and finding a group shouldn't be hard. And what they have so far is free.
Also worth checking out is Legend. It is based on 3.5, though heavily altered. May want to read through it and see what you think. It is pay what you want, so drop 4 bucks and pick it up in PDF if you'd like.Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
-
2013-03-18, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
The best reason to pick Pathfinder is to already be familiar with it or D&D 3rd Edition.
If you want to learn something new, I think it's not so great, since it has so many details and options that you don't really "need" to run a game. It's a huge amount to read and takes quite some time to learn well.We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
-
2013-03-18, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Canberra, Australia
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
For every system you'll get players who like it and players who don't. 4th edition has the benefit of being the most balanced of all editions - none of the classes really stand out as being better than the rest. The trade off is that all of the classes kind of work the same. Each has their at will, encounter and daily powers which is unlike earlier editions where fighters could use their abilities whenever they wanted two while spellcasters had a limited number of castings until they rested.
I've said before: the good thing about 4th edition is that it removes a lot of that crazy tricks and imbalances of 3rd edition, the bad thing about 4th edition is that it removes a lot of that crazy tricks and imbalances of 3rd edition.
-
2013-03-18, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- St. Louis
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
What decided it for me is that all (or at least most) of Pathfinder's content can be found for free on their srd, so you don't actually have to pay in order to play, unless you want their adventure paths/campaign setting.
-
2013-03-18, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
pathfinder base and 3.5 mixes well. if something is in both then use the pf version.
-
2013-03-19, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Central Kentucky
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
Second Legend. However, it is completely free... but you can still donate if y ou want.
http://www.ruleofcool.com/
http://www.ruleofcool.com/get-the-game/
https://s3.amazonaws.com/det_1/Legend.pdf <-- this is the actual link to it!
http://www.ruleofcool.com/donation-thresholds/ <-- some bonus content
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/47651526/LCGb.html <-- an online character generator
I would consider Pathfinder 3.55, Trailblazer 3.60, Fantasycraft 3.70, and Legend 3.75, as far as the 'number of things fixed' goes...
Other good things to do is use mutants and masterminds 2e to write up D&D-esque characters, a la:
http://greywulf.net/2011/06/03/mutan...third-edition/
Fantasycraft is found here:
http://www.crafty-games.com/node/348
Trailblazer is found here:
http://badaxegames.com/
Good luck!
Again, if free content is important, LOOK UP LEGEND!! It is, as far as I can tell, superior in all ways to Pathfinder.Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-03-19 at 03:16 PM.
-
2013-03-19, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I'm a big fan of the Fantasycraft game Gavinfoxx mentioned.
But between 3.5 and PF, I think Pathfinder has a lot going for it, especially for beginners:
- Its free rules are more comprehensive.
- Its rules are generally cleaner than 3.5's.
- It has continuing support and modules/adventure paths that are usually quite entertaining.
- I think that it's safe to say its core classes are more interesting than 3.5, and they're usually where new players start.
PF's major drawbacks are that it does have a lot of the same problems as 3e (casting classes are just overwhemingly more versatile than non-casting classes), and that it has a less overwhelming amount of *stuff*, especially prestige classes and a couple of the once-obscure subsystems that have gained pretty broad fan followings among the people who still talk about 3e half a decade since it's left print.
But the difference between 3e and PF isn't too big, odds are you'll be shipping contents one way or another, and I think it'd be more reasonable to use the cheaper, cleaner ruleset as a default than to shell out $50 for a 3e PHB, just to translate summoners and alchemists back into PF.
-
2013-03-21, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I enjoy Pathfinder immensely. You may want to mix the official Paizo SRD and d20pfsrd.org, though. D20pfsrd is great, but when it comes time to pick your feats, there's just way too much there. Guides are also useful for figuring out how to be at least competent with a class.
-
2013-03-21, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- M'wakee, 'Sconsin
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I was a huge 3.5 partisan, but my game group and I have successfully moved 100% over to Pathfinder in the past year. It's a lot of fun, and with the excellent online support, it's fast and easy to quick look up a rule you're unfamiliar with.
Over and above that, I really like what Paizo is doing as a company, and I make a point to buy my stuff from them when I'm in the market for physical products.
It really depends on the kind of game you want, however. Do you guys like modern horror? Do you like Lord of the Rings style fantasy? Cyberpunk? Space battles? There are hundreds and hundreds of game systems out there, and at least six of them are pretty good.
-
2013-03-21, 09:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I can also say between those two, Pathfinder is probably more worth getting into for these reasons:
- Easier to get into, with most all the rules for free on the SRD
- Still being supported by its company, so new stuff (adventures, supplements, etc.) is still coming out, i.e., it's still exciting
As far as quality-wise, they're largely equally hit-and-miss; PF makes some half-hearted fixes in some places, but then inadvertently makes other things worse. I think they were more focused on getting it out there than making it wonderful.
However, beyond those two choices, I would also recommend Legend, as it's more clear-cut and a superior game, though it's still riddled with issues.
If you want LotR/the Hobbit-style games, I highly recommend The One Ring by Cubicle 7, it does a great job of capturing the essence of adventure stories with no overt magic.
Besides that, there are also simpler rules systems out there that might be of interest, if learning 300 pages of rules sounds a little overkill. I admit I don't know any good fantasy rules lite games that I've played to recommend, but someone here is bound to know of some good ones.
Happy gaming!*********
Matters of Critical Insignificance - My Blog for all my favorite entertainment
11/4: Announcing the Vow of Honor KS! (I contributed)
-
2013-03-21, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Texas, USA
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I would suggest Pathfinder.
I see it as what 4th edition should have been. It fixes some of the issues that 3.5 had and it is in general a really good system.
I would suggest you keep it simple and just start with the Core rules and maybe some of the hardbound supplement books. One issue I had with 3.5 was there were so many supplements that it was impossible for the game designers to see how everything will interact with everything else and the munchkins out there go to town.
Pathfinder has started off simple and built up slowly. Yes, they are getting a lot more supplements, but that is inevitable as that is how they make more money. Still, it is not to the scale of 3.0 and 3.5 in my opinion.
It also makes playing a single class character so much more worth it than 3.5 ever did.
-
2013-03-21, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- The Pits of Hell
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I enjoy pathfinder a lot after being 3.5 player for most of my playing, also another point in favor of pathfinder is most of the material for it is free online at the prd which is maintained by paizo.
-
2013-03-21, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I'll second Fantasy Craft here. It's a bit different from classical d20 games, but in a good way. It brings many possibilities to RP heavy groups (Reputation, Favors, Subplots, social mechanics etc.) and it's much more forgiving than 3.5 or PF - you can build suboptimal character here, but difference wouldn't be crippling like in 3.5 (basically, you can build character basing on fluff of the classes and feats and he'll be playable) and it's much more balanced in a way that everyone can contribute (balance here calculated on PC vs NPC principle because building NPC is different from building PC, btw NPC builder here is a gem).
On top of that, it's very customizable in many ways, from campaign creation (with this system you can play everything from LotR and SoIaF to Faerun and Great Wheel) to character and gear creation (group of 5 Human Soldiers would look more like Five Deadly Venoms and not like Clone Wars) . Also on the of-site there are point based constructors and guidelines to create your own classes and origins (species, talents and specialties) and there are plenty of fan created stuff already.
So, yeah, it's pretty much my favorite d20 system)Last edited by MirddinEmris; 2013-03-21 at 11:57 PM.
-
2013-03-22, 06:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I just looked at the preview and several reviews for Fantasy Craft, since I've heard lots and lots about it over the past few years, and I can tentatively recommend it, as well, at least, as much as someone who's just looking into things can recommend. It's closer to 3.5 than Legend is, and promises to deliver more on the holistic fantasy adventure with more depth than 3.5 does. I will definitely pick it up next time I see it for sale.
*********
Matters of Critical Insignificance - My Blog for all my favorite entertainment
11/4: Announcing the Vow of Honor KS! (I contributed)
-
2013-03-22, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
While I personally prefer Pathfinder as the best system for me that is out there, I would rather say "it fixes a few issues that 3.5e had, leaves most completely unadressed, and created a bunch of new ones".
It's not bad, but overall, it's not better and not a fix.
The difference is that Pathfinder is in print and less cluttered, because there a fewer books. And pretty much all abilities, spells, and creatures are openly accessible online even if you don't have the books.We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
-
2013-03-22, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
Pathfinder is much more flavorful than 3.5. Also, ironically Pathfinder would be more like a "pure breed third edition", while 3.5 (kind of unconciously) kept a lot of second edition in it.
While second edition is also awesome, Pathfinder feels more complete and finished to me. No, I don't mean imbalances or overcomplicated rules. Pathfinder has many of those. But the game feels smoother.
Combat maneuvers rules are better, and all classes are funnier. If there is any particular thing you dislike (for example, I don't like the new Domain powers for clerics), just rule it out.
Paizo also has better insight for funny/useful player options than Wizards ever did. Just check the Advanced Player and Advanced Race guides (which are free online)... The worst problem about 3.5 isn't its bugs, it's that some aspects of gameplay are bland. So in the most important factor - making mechanics fun - Pathfinder is superior to 3.5.
Frankly, the only reason I see to not play Pathfinder is if you're too much used to 3.5. But if you and your guys are rusty, it may be even easier to learn Pathfinder than to relearn 3.5.
People are talking so much of this Fantasy Craft thing I'm getting really curious about it :)bock!
-
2013-03-22, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
-
2013-03-22, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
Pathfinder doesn't require nearly as much system mastery and optimizing-fu as 3.5, thanks to the relative lack of prestige classes and the plethora of Archetypes. You don't need to multiclass all over the place as a non-caster like you did in 3.5
-
2013-03-22, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- Brazil
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
Maybe because the PDF costs 30 bucks? :/
Frosty, their success with using Archetypes rather than Prestiges isn't just because it's easier to keep your character powerful/relevant. It's all about adressing player option/customization with simple and fun and flavorful rules. To the majority of RPG gamers, simplicity, fun and flavor are more important than anything else.bock!
-
2013-03-22, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Avatar by Ceika
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I made a blog post addressing this exact issue. You may want to check it out.
http://ultimatejosha.blogspot.ca/201...s-dragons.html
-
2013-03-22, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
-
2013-03-22, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Texas, USA
-
2013-03-22, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- London, UK
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I'll fourth (fifth?) the backing of Fantasy Craft.
Among the perks that haven't been mentioned here:
- easy NPC generation for the GM;
- good support from the build team on the forum discussion boards;
- out of the core rulebook alone you can play as things like a dragon, a troll, or a fire giant from level 1 if you want to without throwing the power balance.
The downsides:
- it's not well-known, so you'd basically all be learning it de novo (although for groups other than yours, where people may have played other games in the same lineage, e.g. Spycraft, or Star Wars Saga, that's less of an issue)
- the core rulebook is a bit big (but then, as noted, it's basically the equivalent of the PHB + DMG + MM1 in one, i.e. all you need to get started).
One flavour thing I should mention: the default option is high cinematics, and a higher degree of narrative control (e.g. "it would be fun if this throne room had a great big chandelier hanging from the ceiling") on the part of the players than in 3.5, pathfinder, 4.0 etc. (although lower than FATE). You can easily dial these options down if you want to, however.Last edited by paddyfool; 2013-03-22 at 02:33 PM.
-
2013-03-22, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Avatar by Ceika
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
Don't do Fantasy Craft. Its more complex than it needs to be, and many of the design decisions are rather baffling. Start with Basic Fantasy, Castles & Crusades, D&D Fourth Edition, or Blood & Treasure.
-
2013-03-22, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- London, UK
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
There are one or two complexities I've been tempted to try and make simpler alternative versions of (particularly the many different damage types). But what in particular annoyed/baffled you?
Start with Basic Fantasy, Castles & Crusades, D&D Fourth Edition, or Blood & Treasure.
-
2013-03-22, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
He was talking about the Fantasy Craft PDF. If that was $10 I'd buy it today.
Also, I think FC's lack of popularity has more reasons -
- Low Production Values - black-and-white art, seriously? In a $30 d20 product? I don't care how nice the rules are, I feel like I'm getting scammed.
- Bad Marketing - I don't think Crafty Games gets the word out on, like, any of their products, they don't have much of a presence.
- Lateness of the hour - This came out in 2010, which was well after the chance that a new d20 product could really ride on 3.5's coattails to popularity. Also, recession.
*********
Matters of Critical Insignificance - My Blog for all my favorite entertainment
11/4: Announcing the Vow of Honor KS! (I contributed)
-
2013-03-23, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I'm a big fan of D&D 4th edition Essentials. The Slayer class in "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" is really fun, and can be built to be a really effective archer-fighter.
However, for starting out, I recommend "Microlite20" or "Microlite74". The rules are 10 pages long, and are free of charge.
You could also do "Risus", for a more humorous ruleset.
-
2013-03-23, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
Art may be black and white but it's a very good quality art (not like infamous dnd art, for example) that i enjoy very much.
On other points i have to agree - quality of a product without proper marketing doesn't mean much ( Fallout 1 and 2 a good examples on this )
and Paizo siezed initiative with PF when the moment was right. Still it's a system rich with options and interesting to play.
Don't do Fantasy Craft. Its more complex than it needs to be, and many of the design decisions are rather baffling. Start with Basic Fantasy, Castles & Crusades, D&D Fourth Edition, or Blood & Treasure.
-
2013-03-23, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
- Location
- New Hampshire, USA
- Gender
Re: Pathfinder or 3.5 or something else?
I would take PF over 3.5 10 times out of ten. I simply see it as a superior system. One option though is Radiance. It is D20 based and you only need two books. The players book alone could be used. Tons of options, one book.
--
Tetsubo
Deviant Art: http://ironstaff.deviantart.com/
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/tetsubokanamono/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tetsubo57