Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Based on a similar 2e creature. I may need help with the pricing, as I'm not sure its good.

    Skinwrapper
    Medium Construct (Symbiont)
    Hit Dice:
    5d10+20 (47 hp)
    Initiative: +3
    Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
    Armor Class: 13 (+3 Dex), touch 13, flatfooted 10
    Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+2
    Attack: Slam +2 melee (1d6-1)
    Full Attack: Slam +2 melee (1d6-1)
    Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
    Special Attacks: -----
    Special Qualities: construct traits, Darkvision 60 ft., Fast Healing 1, Immunity, lowlight vision, Meld, symbiont traits
    Saves: Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 9, Dex 16, Con ---, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 6
    Skills: Listen +7, Spot +7
    Feats: Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes
    Environment: Any
    Organization: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 5, or as host
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Any (same as creator)
    Advancement: 6-10 HD (Medium)
    Level Adjustment: -----

    Through the portal trounces a humanoid; behind it you can see searing flames coming from the portal, though the humanoid seems completely unaffected. The flesh, previously burning hot, fades into a normal color. The creature's face is completely blank, but its face writhes about.

    Skinwrappers are a special form of homunculus originally developed to allow safe passage through the Inner Planes, but as time went on other spellcasters learned of the creation technique and developed them for their own purposes. Unlike other homunculi, skinwrappers take on a much more symbiotic function; they meld with their master, completely engulfing them, in order to grant immunity to elemental extremes. Skinwrappers completely cover any unique features of the wearer, leaving the face a featureless visage of writhing flesh. Despite being completely engulfed, a host can still breathe and speak (albeit slightly muffled).

    Combat
    Most of the time, a skinwrapper homunculus is encountered while being worn by their master, but a skinwrapper encountered alone can use its slam attack to hold off enemies. Unlike other symbionts, skinwrappers do take damage from attacks that are targeting their host. They suffer damage equal to half that the host suffers. If a skinwrapper is killed, its owner takes 5d10 points worth of damage. If a skinwrapper’s master dies first, the homunculus collapses into a pile of soppy flesh and ichor.

    Immunity: Upon creation, a Skinwrapper is given one immunity by its creator to one of the following types of damage; acid, cold, electricity, or fire. Once the immunity is chosen, it cannot be changed. Some of these homunculi are given additional immunities at creation, but at an extra cost.

    Meld (Ex): As a standard action, a Skinwrapper can completely engulf its creator, becoming a “second skin” of a sort. The creator must be the same size or one size category smaller compared than its creator for this ability to work. The creator is completely enveloped, but still able to breath through the porous membrane. The skinwrapper doesn’t give any bonus to the host’s armor class, but it does grant its creator a slam attack and the fleshwrapper’s immunity. All other environmental effects still affect the wearer. While wearing a skinwrapper, the host cannot medium or heavier armor.

    Creating a Skinwrapper
    A Skinwrapper is stitched using dried animal skin that is washed with a liquid that mixes spring water, a pint of the owner’s blood, and a small amount of an item representing the element that the skinwrapper is immune to (sulfur for acid, ice for cold, bits of iron for electricity, or ashes for fire). The materials cost 200 gp. The creature’s master may create the body, or he may get another to craft it for him. Creating the body requires a DC 18 Profession (Tanner) or Profession (Taxidermist).

    After the skin being used for the body is cured, it is animated through an extended magical ritual that requires a specifically prepared laboratory or workroom, similar to an alchemist’s laboratory and costing 500 gp to establish. If the spellcaster is personally creating the body, the actual creation and the ritual can be performed together.

    A homunculus with more than 3 Hit Dice can be created, but each additional Hit Die adds 2,000 gp to the cost. A skinwrapper can be created with more than one immunity, but the each additional immunity adds an additional 4,200 gp to the cost.

    Craft Construct, arcane eye, mirror image, mending, resist energy. Caster level must be at least 4th level. Price --- (never sold); Cost 10,250 gp + 480 XP.
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2013-03-25 at 09:29 AM.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    inuyasha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    gehenna
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    so for 12000 extra I can be immune to all energy types? lil rigged dontchya think?
    Come post a magic item to show that not all unique items are immensely powerful tools of the gods!
    Jester of The Rudisplorkers Guild!!

    My cool avatar by Kymme
    My homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    ..What have I done..? What have you done? That poor lantern archon..

    trophies
    The photo got removed, but I'm a silver trophy winner of Pathfinder Grab Bag XII: of Dungeons and Dragons

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Wearing your skinwrapper doesn't give you permanent energy immunity since the skinwrapper only has 47 hit points. It's pretty easy to destroy.

    You messed up the cost since the cost of a normal homunculus is 1,050 gp. (1,000 for the spells and 50 for the material cost). If the spell adds 3,000 gp to the cost of a homunculus, the costs would be 4,050 gp and 320 xp.

    BTW a normal homunculus should cost 80 xp not 78. Somebody at WotC screwed that up.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-03-23 at 02:59 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    I'll increase the price to 5,000, and I'll make it so that the skinwrapper can grant a maximum of two immunities. Does that seem better?

    I'll change the prices in one second.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    The problem with it is that the skinwrapper only has 47 hit points. As soon as it takes that damage, the immunities are gone. That's a lot of gold for what amounts to temporary immunities should you be attacked while wearing one of these. I'm not sure it's worth the cost.

    The cost would normally be 6,000 gp so halving it almost makes sense. At low levels it's nice, but you probably don't need those immunities until higher level and by then, 47 hit points becomes a serious drawback.

    It's something to consider at least. A 30% reduction in cost would probably be in order dropping it to 4,200 rather than 5,000.

    I don't think it matters if you limit the number of immunities. They all go away as soon as the skinwrapper takes 47 hit points of damage. If the PCs have gold to burn, let 'em.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-03-23 at 06:28 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    inuyasha's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    gehenna
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    heheh...im going to be mean and have a troll wear one with two immunities, and it will be advanced so its bigger :devilishlaugh:
    Come post a magic item to show that not all unique items are immensely powerful tools of the gods!
    Jester of The Rudisplorkers Guild!!

    My cool avatar by Kymme
    My homebrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    ..What have I done..? What have you done? That poor lantern archon..

    trophies
    The photo got removed, but I'm a silver trophy winner of Pathfinder Grab Bag XII: of Dungeons and Dragons

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    That, right there, is just cruel and unusual.

    A spellcasting troll with impenetrable regeneration (at least until you kill that homunculus of his).... that's definitely going to be an interesting encounter.

    EDIT: Oh, just saw Debihuman's response.
    I'll read it more thoroughly and get back to you in a minute.

    EDIT 2: Alright, I see your point. I'll probably be getting rid of the immunity cap, then, but before I make any changes to the prices I do have a question; I was considering giving the skinwrapper fast healing 2, to give it a bit of a buffer before it is killed. How much would you say this would affect the price?
    Last edited by LOTRfan; 2013-03-23 at 07:12 PM.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    EDIT 2: Alright, I see your point. I'll probably be getting rid of the immunity cap, then, but before I make any changes to the prices I do have a question; I was considering giving the skinwrapper fast healing 2, to give it a bit of a buffer before it is killed. How much would you say this would affect the price?
    I think that it is too much for CR 3. That is worth 200,000 gp [The ring of rapid healing in Epic see SRD grants Fast Healing 3 for 300,000 gp]

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-03-24 at 05:18 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Oldhelwyn Wilds

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    The problem with it is that the skinwrapper only has 47 hit points.

    Debby
    This needs Regeneration.
    Avatar by Gurgleflep

    Spoiler
    Show
    Belladonis Campaign Setting 3.5
    Casting as a Skill

    Learn from your mistakes, 3.5...
    Fill in those dead levels...

    Abrothia's Vision
    Spoiler
    Show


    Welcome to the World Serpent Inn!
    Spoiler
    Show

    - - - IC - - - OOC - - -


    Extended Signature (90% complete)

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    I think that it is too much for CR 3. That is worth 200,000 gp [The ring of rapid healing in Epic see SRD grants Fast Healing 3 for 300,000 gp]

    Debby
    It seems that cost is usually a little over half of what the market price is, so Fast Healing 1 would be around 60,000 gp, right? That's still much more expensive than I ever intended this to be, so I'll drop the idea.

    I'll make the price adjustments recommended in your previous post in one second.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    This needs Regeneration.
    See, the only thing I'm really worried about with this is that it would be prohibitively expensive. It would also make this much more powerful than any of the other homunculi published in official sources.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    The price for Fast Healing 2 is 200,000 gp the cost is 100,000 gp. Cost is 1/2 the price. The Price for Fast Heal 1 is 100,000 gp so the cost is 50,000 gp. HOWEVER, you need to check what your caster level needs to be to add that. It is based on the regeneration spell so you have to add that to the prerequisites spells, which is a 7th level cleric spell so the CL is 13. If you can't make one of these until you are 13th level, it defeats the CR 3 level.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-03-24 at 08:57 AM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Yeah, I'm dropping it. I'm going to keep it as is (unless you have any more suggestions), and keep the 4th level minimum requirement for the homunculus.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Giving the Homoculus Fast Healing doesn't have to be as expensive as people are saying in my book. Having it grant fast healing to the WEARER on the other hand would be pretty expensive.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Perhaps there should be a time limit to the Meld ability.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    In that case, how much do you think the fast healing would add to the base cost, DracoDei?

    And as for putting a time limit on Meld, part of me sort of disagrees. Its mainly because originally, these homunculi were not meant to be used as combat tools, but rather a means in which the spellcaster could survive on inhospital planes of existence. It doesn't really make much sense for a wizard to shift to the Elemental Plane of Fire, or one of the more frigid areas of the Elemental Plane of Air, while wearing a device that will only protect them for a few minutes.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    In that case, how much do you think the fast healing would add to the base cost, DracoDei?
    Well, a wand of Cure Light Wounds is 750 if I remember, and... eh, call it 5,000-10,000 per point of fast healing? That should work well at the low end of the scale.
    Quote Originally Posted by LOTRfan View Post
    And as for putting a time limit on Meld, part of me sort of disagrees. Its mainly because originally, these homunculi were not meant to be used as combat tools, but rather a means in which the spellcaster could survive on inhospital planes of existence. It doesn't really make much sense for a wizard to shift to the Elemental Plane of Fire, or one of the more frigid areas of the Elemental Plane of Air, while wearing a device that will only protect them for a few minutes.
    Very much agreed.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2013-03-24 at 08:59 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Alright. Before I add the fast healing, though, I have a question for Debihuman; You said that giving it Fast Healing would be making it too powerful for a CR 3 creature. Would you say that it is strong enough to be a CR 4 critter without the fast healing, or is it in one of those awkward "not quite there, but definitely too close to be considered the CR before it" areas?
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Elemental Plane of Purple
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    Using Vorpal Tribble's CR Estimator to check this.

    Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator

    #1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
    4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

    47/4.5= 10
    #2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

    AC 13 =0

    #3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

    0 special attacks

    #4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

    Here's what I would count: Meld 1, Immunity 2 Symbiont 1 darkvision 1, low-light vision1

    6

    #5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

    None

    #6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.

    16/3 = CR 5. Giving it Fast Healing puts into CR 6 territory,

    Granted it's just an estimate but by the looks of it, this is CR 5 not CR 3.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    LOTRfan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Skinwrappers (Homunculus variant, pricing help needed)

    In that case, I will add the Fast Healing 1, as well as adding the additional 5,000 gp to the cost of creation.

    I think this may be the most expensive homunculus I've ever seen, but there isn't much I can do about that, I guess.
    Extended Homebrew Signature

    Let's Read the Monster Manual II!

    Dwarf Cleric avatar by azuyomi244. Thanks!

    Saurial Soulknife avatar by Serpentine. Thanks!

    Warforged Fighter Avatar by C-Lam. Thanks!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •