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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    There's a 5th Edition of D&D coming out ("D&D Next") and there are playtests and such. So discuss the playtests (within the bounds of the NDA), what you want to see, what you don't want to see, and other aspects of game design that may be relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clawhound View Post
    I don't think that they are floundering without purpose. They are iterating. The purpose of iterating is to learn.

    The good news is that they accept feedback. The bad news is that they accept feedback. You know how opinionated of a lot we can be.
    I don't get that impression. Its not like they are jumping from one idea to another, or incorporating multiple counterclashing mechanics. They are just creating a SINGLE bland style D&D.
    Last edited by Scowling Dragon; 2013-03-27 at 11:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fralex View Post
    A little condescending
    That pretty much sums up the Scowling Dragon experience.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition: Still in the Idea stage

    What is a "blad" style? I'm not sure if that was a typo for bad, bland, or an intentional combination of the two (in which case it is a word that should catch on quickly).
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Lets just say blad in a new word.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fralex View Post
    A little condescending
    That pretty much sums up the Scowling Dragon experience.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Not in the Idea Stage Any More

    "Still in the idea stage"? Really? Even if you're being sarcastic about that, I'm pretty sure many people won't get it.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2013-03-27 at 11:57 AM.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    The thing is that floundering with no direction is usually the result of "taking the best part from each edition". It sounds nice in theory, but when you actually try to do it, you end up with a hodge-podge like D&D Next. You need clear direction to make a good game, not cherry-picking from several other games, each of which had a different goal and theme.
    I have to say that the most recent packet is the first time I've thought the Next team was focused on making a real, new edition of D&D with a unique identity as opposed to a hodge-podge.

    My editions of choice are 4e, 1e, and RC. While I'd love for Next to be a cleaner, better 4e, it's not going to happen. From there, the only way I'll be interested is if they start staking out new territory rather than re-treading anything that's come before. Put simply, I think using previous editions of D&D as anything other than a bare baseline is a mistake. Class/Level, XP, HP, AC, and the 6 attributes are the starting point. From there, stake out new territory. Don't worry about feats, skills, specific spells, or any of those other trappings. Come up with something new and awesome.

    The newest packet has both some actual innovation and shows influences of other games. The Exploration rules remind me a heck of a lot of Dungeon World, of all things. I think that's a good start, but it needs to do more. The sad truth, though, is that a large public playtest like this will almost invariably lead them in a more conservative direction with their design. That's too bad; I want something different.

    -O

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    "Still in the idea stage"? Really? Even if you're being sarcastic about that, I'm pretty sure many people won't get it.
    Go to WotC forums. There's a number of users who insist we're still early in the playtest and the very foundations of the system are likely to change with any given packet.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Not in the Idea Stage Any More

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Go to WotC forums. There's a number of users who insist we're still early in the playtest and the very foundations of the system are likely to change with any given packet.
    Sure. But using it as a thread title here implies that most or all of the users here also think that, and that's simply not the case.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    So whats your name suggestion? I asked if you could give a better one I would change it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fawkes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fralex View Post
    A little condescending
    That pretty much sums up the Scowling Dragon experience.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Not in the Idea Stage Any More

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon View Post
    So whats your name suggestion? I asked if you could give a better one I would change it.
    Some quotes from the Mearls column,
    "interesting people like to play the game"
    "some renovation to the classes"
    "managing dead levels"
    "complexity is a big issue for me"
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Okay... so I'm reading the new playtest packet finally and... are there actually rules for two weapon fighting? I can't for the life of me find anything besides the feats for it, and those don't really explain what two-weapon fight does. Looked in DM guidelines, classes, specialties, how to play, equipment.

    Did they just decide they needed feats for it without it actually being a thing in game yet?

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob.Tyr View Post
    Okay... so I'm reading the new playtest packet finally and... are there actually rules for two weapon fighting? I can't for the life of me find anything besides the feats for it, and those don't really explain what two-weapon fight does. Looked in DM guidelines, classes, specialties, how to play, equipment.

    Did they just decide they needed feats for it without it actually being a thing in game yet?
    I'm pretty sure it's in how to play, there is a rule, by default you can use two light weapons and the second one doesn't add your strength to damage.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Not in the Idea Stage Any More

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Sure. But using it as a thread title here implies that most or all of the users here also think that, and that's simply not the case.
    As the ninth thread title, I think it implies a more snarky meaning. I approve of it.
    Thanks to Elrond for the Vash avatar.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Not in the Idea Stage Any More

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Some quotes from the Mearls column,
    "interesting people like to play the game"
    "some renovation to the classes"
    "managing dead levels"
    "complexity is a big issue for me"
    D&D 5th Edition IX: Rock Climbing

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    I think we should call it D&D 5th Edition Thread Next.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
    \ˈgrā-tər \
    comparative adjective
    1. Describing basically the exact same monster but with twice the RHD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Griffon

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Not in the Idea Stage Any More

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    D&D 5th Edition IX: Rock Climbing
    But are there any springs?

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's in how to play, there is a rule, by default you can use two light weapons and the second one doesn't add your strength to damage.
    Found it, thanks! Apparently the header doesn't get picked up by search in the PDF.

    I like the fighter changes... I was pretty sure I was going to hate them but I like it. I love the ranger and can't wait for it to get more options for favoured enemies; as it stands there is one for fighting crowds and two for fighting big enemies.

    Wizards got a decent bump, but I don't think they're out of balance still...

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    Default Outdated spellcheck is outdated...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Some quotes from the Mearls column,
    "interesting people like to play the game"
    "some renovation to the classes"
    "managing dead levels"
    "complexity is a big issue for me"
    Does anyone really trust Mearls?

    I mean r e a l l y trust him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverent-One View Post
    As the ninth thread title, I think it implies a more snarky meaning. I approve of it.
    I however, do not approve of the way that "Snarky" is not cleared by my spell check...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octopusapult View Post
    Does anyone really trust Mearls?

    I mean r e a l l y trust him?
    I trust him to be really good at origami...
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Oh, Mearls stuff is half marketeering and half information. It's up to you to determine which half is which.

    What makes a good game for me is where the rules are well defined enough to be playable, but loose enough so that the players can play it completely wrong and still have fun.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I trust him to be really good at origami...
    He can be an origami all-star, but how is he still working at WotC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clawhound View Post
    Oh, Mearls stuff is half marketeering and half information. It's up to you to determine which half is which.

    What makes a good game for me is where the rules are well defined enough to be playable, but loose enough so that the players can play it completely wrong and still have fun.
    Every game should be this way. Arkham Horror and D&D specifically...
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's in how to play, there is a rule, by default you can use two light weapons and the second one doesn't add your strength to damage.
    Yes, that's right (or potentially your dexterity to damage if it is a finesse weapon). Plus, if one gets the dual wielding feat, one can use a non-light weapon in the primarily hand.

    Also, the way I read it, a sword-and-boarder with a shortsword and a spiked shield can attack with the sword and bash with the shield while a sword-and-boarder with a longsword and a spiked shield cannot (unless he has the dual wielding feat).

    I like their treatment of finesse weapons because they allow a dexterity-based fighter.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Scowling Dragon
    PF base, Tracks from legend, Max level of spell 7 (Adjust damage dealing though and teleportation spells and such), Use Houserules handbook Spellpoints system as "core" and then release a classic spell slots version. Use elemental axis as new alignment system, have few monsters per book but with detailed level progression to allow for different leveled monsters or PCs as monsters. AC as DR, When using swords use a static Reflex save with a score of 10. Use Codex martialis martial dice and feats, and a more detailed acrobatics system with each move detailed to allow for mix and match acrobatic combat. Then combine GMS guide with the Players handbook, and just call it "Core Book" for easier accessibility. Design the game to favor the GMs word over even the books rules. Just altogether separate magic items from core progression and same thing with money. Fix the faulty math and your all set.
    With all due respect, because that sounds like a very decent clone, it's hardly a SUPERGAME. Every other clone is designed to be just what you have described, a SUPERGAME that takes the best from everything so far. People's opinions on what is best are just different, is the problem. Which is why 5e's design looks like it does.

    I don't get that impression. Its not like they are jumping from one idea to another, or incorporating multiple counterclashing mechanics. They are just creating a SINGLE bland style D&D.
    You haven't followed along closely enough, then. They gave the Fighter Expertise Dice to be their Nice Thing, then decided to give it to everyone else, too, then pulled them all back. Martial Damage Dice, Martial Maneuvers, these things are here today, gone tomorrow. How many iterations has the skill system gone through? Yes, any one packet is a single bland D&D, but if you follow the threads of each mechanic we still have, there's a huge amount of variety and leap frog between the different packets. And nothing sounds like what they were talking about before they officially announced 5e anymore (when's the last time someone mentioned modules?).
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbazubba View Post
    And nothing sounds like what they were talking about before they officially announced 5e anymore (when's the last time someone mentioned modules?).
    I think of them often. I also often think of the whole "three pillars" thing they're neglecting to focus on combat.
    Jude P.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    It's been ages since I caught news about 5e, so...

    Did anything new appear about how modular the game will be? Especially the part where all non-casters use maneuvers? Or did they decide to abandon that aspect of the game somewhere mid-development?

    Siela Tempo by the talented Kasanip. Tengu by myself.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    I think of them often. I also often think of the whole "three pillars" thing they're neglecting to focus on combat.
    Sorry, I meant someone at WotC.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbazubba View Post
    Sorry, I meant someone at WotC.
    Oh. Right. Well, when do they ever pay attention to what's going on with the game's development?
    Jude P.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    "You mean we're supposed to be developing a game? I thought we were just sitting around the pub BSing with each other."

    "Nah, Mike's been writing down everything and posting it on the web. And dig this, people actually read it."

    "Holy mother of ..."

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbazubba View Post
    (when's the last time someone mentioned modules?).
    I think we're actually seeing some modules, right now. Just not really presented as such.

    My understanding is that the "core" game - your basic red box equivalent - is basically set and no longer needs external playtesting. It's the "standard" game that we're testing right now.

    Either that, or they came to their senses and realized there has to be a default, baseline experience which everyone - especially 3rd party publishers - can refer to.

    -O
    Last edited by obryn; 2013-03-28 at 08:04 AM.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition IX: Still in the Idea stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    It's been ages since I caught news about 5e, so...

    Did anything new appear about how modular the game will be? Especially the part where all non-casters use maneuvers? Or did they decide to abandon that aspect of the game somewhere mid-development?
    Basically, the situation is exactly the same as it was when the playtest first started: They promise that modular design is one of their main goals, and occasionally they mention something that's "going to be a module later on", but modules don't fit at all into the organization of the current playtest and we have no idea as to what parts are "core" and what parts are "modules", though we've been told that the current playtest "has more than what will be in the core game."

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    Default Re: I really like pineapple ice cream!

    I just noticed that WOTC made some improvements to the skill system, in that the previous playtest allowed random peasants to successfully perform feats of godlike power 5% of the time, and currently that's no longer possible. Since so many people were arguing that it's perfectly fine for an RPG if peasants can do godlike things, I'm glad WOTC decided differently
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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