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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Spiked Chainmail Bag of Glass & Rocksalt (& Caltrops)


    +1 Chainmail Bag


    This simple weapon is a two ply bag of spiked chainmail. The outer bag is heavy duty and has spiked chain-links and caltrops weaved throughout. The bag has leather draw straps for handles, which are about two feet long. The inner bag is then filled with coarse rock-salt and shards of sharp glass. The weapon is swung to gain momentum, dealing nasty wounds that continue to sting and bleed long after the strike.

    Due to the salt in the wounds, any living creature hit by the spiked chainmail bag continues to bleed for 1d4 rounds after being hit, taking 1 point of damage each round. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 10 Heal check or the application of a cure spell or some other healing magic.

    The bag must be refilled with rocksalt and glass after three encounters, requiring one pound of broken glass and two pounds of rocksalt. Some use caltrops as a replacement for the glass, as they do not fall out of the bag after several encounters. With caltrops, only the rock salt empties.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-06-08 at 04:42 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Chainmail Bag of Glass & Rocksalt

    ...I can't imagine this being anywhere near as effective as you seem to think it would be. Realistically it would leak insanely if the gaps were big enough for the contents to actually move through the chain mail, or it would be about as effective as the same bag full of rocks, as the links would be to densely meshed to really allow the contents to have much impact.

    Either way, such a weapon would function like a blackjack or similar cudgel, meaning it would inflict bashing wounds that, while the might break bones, would be unlikely to actually cut through the skin, and thus the glass and salt wouldn't really cause extra damage.

    That being said, you should specify how long the bleed lasts, how it stacks (in the case of multiple attacks per round as well as multiple rounds), and how to stop it.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
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    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Chainmail Bag of Glass & Rocksalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    ...I can't imagine this being anywhere near as effective as you seem to think it would be. Realistically it would leak insanely if the gaps were big enough for the contents to actually move through the chain mail, or it would be about as effective as the same bag full of rocks, as the links would be to densely meshed to really allow the contents to have much impact.

    Either way, such a weapon would function like a blackjack or similar cudgel, meaning it would inflict bashing wounds that, while the might break bones, would be unlikely to actually cut through the skin, and thus the glass and salt wouldn't really cause extra damage.

    That being said, you should specify how long the bleed lasts, how it stacks (in the case of multiple attacks per round as well as multiple rounds), and how to stop it.
    the point was the caltrops, salt and glass deal bleed damage, as the wounds are shallow but many. The outer chainlinks are small enough to allow some to fall through but not all.

    Ive fooled around with an actual bag that was two ply, filling it with rocksalt, and have swung it quite a bit at a tree. lasts about 2-3 minutes, more so if you have much finer links inside than i did, stopping even smaller rocksalt grains from falling out. The point would be the barbs would poke and spread salt dust into the wounds, while the bag is heavy and actually hurts like hell.

    naturally they would make it from tougher, better materials than i have, but it would work.

    id imagine if the outer bag was spiked chain, with the inner bag being filled, it would function better.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-04-06 at 07:00 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Chainmail Bag of Glass & Rocksalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    That being said, you should specify how long the bleed lasts, how it stacks (in the case of multiple attacks per round as well as multiple rounds), and how to stop it.
    Not sure how long it should last. it stacks for each attack landed.

    stopping it... murphy's soap and ten minutes of scrubbing for the burns... hahaha. as for the rips and tears from the spiked chains, no idea... i bet it would be next to impossible to stop it with so many terrible wounds.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    What i liked in this bag is the smart ideology. It is really appreciable.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by richard456 View Post
    What i liked in this bag is the smart ideology. It is really appreciable.
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    thanks. i tried to make a wicked little weapon.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    thanks. i tried to make a wicked little weapon.
    Sorry to burst your bubble but that is a spammer :P

    Now, why not just use a sock with a brick in it, is the question. It just seems a little silly to be honest. It would leak too much, or too little, and I don't know how effective trying to get a heavy spiked bag to leak a little bit of salt into a wound is effective.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Plath View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble but that is a spammer :P

    Now, why not just use a sock with a brick in it, is the question. It just seems a little silly to be honest. It would leak too much, or too little, and I don't know how effective trying to get a heavy spiked bag to leak a little bit of salt into a wound is effective.
    and here i thought i was safe
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Chainmail Bag of Glass & Rocksalt

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    the point was the caltrops, salt and glass deal bleed damage, as the wounds are shallow but many.
    Non-magical bleed damage is the D&D equivalent of bleeding out from a wound. It comes from deep wounds, or wounds that hit larger veins or arteries (either through precision or by removing large chunks of flesh).

    In D&D wounds and hit points are simplified. A longsword can easily slice an artery in real life, but in D&D this is just represented by hit point loss. The few things in D&D that cause ongoing bleed damage go well above and beyond the bleeding power of a sword.

    The idea for this is cool, but there is no way that the handful of small cuts from this would cause ongoing bleeding damage.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Being honest, for the reasons described above, this would make a poor weapon. However, it would be great for torture.

    I'd recommend that its damage be the similar to a whip, in that it doesn't damage things with a certain amount of natural armor or armor bonus, but gives like a +2 for gather information checks involving torture.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Yeah, the bleeding wouldn't be the issue, the pain would. I'd say give it some kind of special effect due to the pain. Why else are you salting the wounds?
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    Yeah, the bleeding wouldn't be the issue, the pain would. I'd say give it some kind of special effect due to the pain. Why else are you salting the wounds?
    the thing is, getting hit with a 4 lbs. bag of spikes swung on straps at high speeds would still deal damage, prolly on par with a flail.

    but i agree, it needs an effect or something.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-06-06 at 02:28 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    the thing is, getting hit with a 4 lbs. bag of spikes swung on straps at high speeds would still deal damage, prolly on par with a flail.

    but i agree, it needs an effect or something.
    No, not on par with a flail. A flail with a two pound head will probably move at four times the velocity of swinging your arm, thanks to the whiplash motion of the chain. Since the formula for kinetic energy is mass x velocity squared, increasing the speed has a much higher influence on the transfer of energy compared to increasing the weight. Even at half the weight, the flail will hit 8 times as hard. What's more, even if everything was equal, the flail head is hard and unyielding, and your bag is squishy. Causing extra pain to bare or nearly bare flesh is the ONLY advantage of the bag nasty.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Very true. If simply swinging a spikey bag was better than a flail, why were flails a thing, but combat spikey bags were not? The physics of the flail head on the chain on the end of a stick provide for maximum force delivery. The longer the stick and chain, the more power generated... but for reasonable use by humans it is limited to just a few feet in total.

    The chainmail bag of nasty seems like a great torture implement. It gives lots of little, painful wounds with less risk of outright killing the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keneth View Post
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    You: NOOOOOOOOOOO!! *hero point => standard action (dismiss spell)*
    Babies: *bounce "harmlessly" off the ground*
    Evil Guy: Damn you, sorcerer! This is not over!!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by OzymandiasX View Post
    Very true. If simply swinging a spikey bag was better than a flail, why were flails a thing, but combat spikey bags were not? The physics of the flail head on the chain on the end of a stick provide for maximum force delivery. The longer the stick and chain, the more power generated... but for reasonable use by humans it is limited to just a few feet in total.

    The chainmail bag of nasty seems like a great torture implement. It gives lots of little, painful wounds with less risk of outright killing the subject.
    that being said, how would you think it would effect those it hits? id imagine it would at least deal 1 damage. Considering the weapon might stick in the wound with all those spikes, which then would require a strength check to yank it free, dealing some damage.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-06-07 at 03:03 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    1d4 seems reasonable to me, with maybe something like a fort save of 10-15 DC (maybe 10 + damage?) or take 1d2 points of dexterity drain as the extreme pain makes it hard to perform delicate tasks.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by sengmeng View Post
    1d4 seems reasonable to me, with maybe something like a fort save of 10-15 DC (maybe 10 + damage?) or take 1d2 points of dexterity drain as the extreme pain makes it hard to perform delicate tasks.
    you mean damage, since drain is permanent.
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Being honest, for the reasons described above, this would make a poor weapon. However, it would be great for torture.

    I'd recommend that its damage be the similar to a whip, in that it doesn't damage things with a certain amount of natural armor or armor bonus, but gives like a +2 for gather information checks involving torture.
    That seems like it would be highly circumstantial. I can't imagine that hitting someone with a spiky bag full of rock salt would really make them more inclined to share (true) information with you. And it definitely wouldn't help if you had the wrong guy, you know?

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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Bleed damage needs to be described a bit better. May I suggest the following:

    Due to the salt in the wounds, any living creature hit by the spiked chainmail bag continues to bleed for 1d4 rounds after being hit, taking 1 point of damage each round. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 10 Heal check or the application of a cure spell or some other healing magic.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Durazno View Post
    That seems like it would be highly circumstantial. I can't imagine that hitting someone with a spiky bag full of rock salt would really make them more inclined to share (true) information with you. And it definitely wouldn't help if you had the wrong guy, you know?
    no, but this is the fault in logic for torture. i suppose most might give in the situation, but how can you truly trust it, since they are now willing to tell you anything. Id rather not argue every circumstance, since as with any torture, it varies on who its practiced on and who is practicing it.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-06-08 at 04:19 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Bleed damage needs to be described a bit better. May I suggest the following:

    Due to the salt in the wounds, any living creature hit by the spiked chainmail bag continues to bleed for 1d4 rounds after being hit, taking 1 point of damage each round. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 10 Heal check or the application of a cure spell or some other healing magic.

    Debby
    sounds good. how does it fair now?
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    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    That paragraph belongs after the 1st paragraph rather than at the end. Otherwise it looks okay.

    Debby
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    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spiked Chainmail Bag of Nasty

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    That paragraph belongs after the 1st paragraph rather than at the end. Otherwise it looks okay.

    Debby
    fixed that, thanks.
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