What dice rolls to hide?

[smashbro]

When you're playing games that involve dice, sometimes it's better for players not to know what they rolled. For example, if they know they rolled a 3 on Sense Motive, and I tell them the person is trustworthy... well, chances are they're wrong. So what rolls do you allow players to do on their own, and what rolls does the DM do, only telling the result?

[Toofey]

Clearly, it's a matter of when the success or failure is immediately apparent to the person.

I also sometimes ask for stats or saves then make a roll I don't show the players just go keep them on their toes. Those should always be hidden.

[NikitaDarkstar]

I'd say will saves versus illusions and similar, perception checks, sense motive and things like that. Basically any rolls where the dice roll immediately gives away the true nature of things.

And I'd also suggest you keep track of their stats for such things and roll them yourself (or in some cases assume the player is taking 10 unless he states he wants to roll) cause well, being asked to roll for something but without knowing what it is causes paranoid players (and frustrated DM's).

[Guizonde]

no questions, handle rope. nothing adds tension (and cursing the rogue) like having the rogue throw her dice behind the dm's screen when rappeling down a ravine, just in case the rope comes undone.

also, knowledge checks for npc's. actually, anything an npc does should be behind the screen.

[holywhippet]

It depends on how players handle OOC knowledge I'd say. I recall one story of a player who tried to abandon their infiltration plan when their disguise check roll was awful. The DM and other players felt it would be using OOC knowledge since the PC wouldn't understand the dice had been against them.

Thing is, it can go against you if you are rolling dice every so often and the players realize that you are making spot/listen checks for them. Whenever you roll the dice it will alert them that something is happening.

[Slipperychicken]

Some groups go under the assumption that people Take 10 on such rolls unless they specify otherwise.


If your players aren't huge metagamers, it should be fine rolling it.

[holywhippet]

I think 4th edition uses take 10 as a standard rule. It's the passive spot check IIRC which is used when you aren't looking out for anything specifically.

[Exediron]

For example, if they know they rolled a 3 on Sense Motive, and I tell them the person is trustworthy... well, chances are they're wrong.

The easiest thing to do in this situation is just to tell the player their roll yielded no information; 'you don't sense anything about her intentions' will do just fine. You don't have to give misinformation if they don't get real information.

As a rule, I think any roll where the knowledge of its result would cause the players to act out of character needs to be hidden, and any roll where this is not the case may be rolled openly. Thus if your players are prone to acting out of character, most rolls should be hidden, and if they are very good about holding back on their player knowledge very few need to be hidden.

[huttj509]

The easiest thing to do in this situation is just to tell the player their roll yielded no information; 'you don't sense anything about her intentions' will do just fine. You don't have to give misinformation if they don't get real information.

As a rule, I think any roll where the knowledge of its result would cause the players to act out of character needs to be hidden, and any roll where this is not the case may be rolled openly. Thus if your players are prone to acting out of character, most rolls should be hidden, and if they are very good about holding back on their player knowledge very few need to be hidden.

"Hang on guys, I think I failed a spot check."

[Totally Guy]

The way it's done in some games is by stake setting and rolling in the open.

Player: I want to get down to the lower level by tying my rope and climing down.
GM: That sounds like a knots roll, difficulty is X. If you fail that knot will be coming loose as you are halfway down.
Player: Ok, I roll... oh no! I failed!
GM: As you are halfway down the rope comes loose and you fall down with a thud and injure yourself. You're not going to be able to get back up this way.

Player: I'll sneak in disgused as a cultist and see what they are planning.
GM: That sounds like a disguise roll, difficulty is X. If you fail your disguise will be noticed as the ceremony starts, surrounded by cultists.
Player: Ok, I roll... oh no! I failed!
GM: The cultists welcome you in as if one of their own. Describe what you do as you become surrounded by cultists.
Player: I wait near the back but I get caught up in the bustle of the room when entering the ceremony.
GM: And that's when the cultists notice that your cloak stands out with a slightly different fabric in a slightly different colour...

In the second example the player can't narrate getting away or trying to escape in some way because the group has agreed that the failure consequence happened and it'd be lame and against the agreement to go back on that now.

Always roll at the last possible second. Don't roll when you make the disguise, roll when you use it.

I remember seeing someone suggest rolling dice underneath a cup and not revealing the result of the roll until the consequences would manifest. That's probably better if you aren't comfortable with rolling at the last possible second.

[mjlush]

Sometimes I use a 'secret' dice roll where the player rolls three d10 and I know which are the 10's and units. Its useful in cases where the PC may have a gut feeling as to how well they did say there making something, sometimes I make it very secret with 4d10