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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Qc Storm's Avatar

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    Oct 2012

    Default The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    The Dragoon
    Draconis Interfector

    The FF class everybody knows and love. The Dragoon earns the honor of being my first homebrew material ever.

    This class was made with several objectives in mind :

    One, to avoid dead levels. This is something that often plagues melee classes. And nobody likes them.

    Two, to make it a reasonably useful outside of specialized areas. A Dragoon's main quirk is its ability to jump, and slay dragons. Unfortunately, not all campaigns happen above ground with dragons abound. The entire class must not be invalidated by DM choices.

    Three, I like Tome of Battle, where strange things happen. People jump fast, deflect blades, go invisible. And most of all, it gave melee nice things. The Dragoon is not meant to match the fighter, or monk. It was made with the ToB classes in mind.

    And now, for the class itself.

    Role:
    Dragoons excel at dealing with dragons. Unlike any other class, they can reach for the sky in the blink of an eye and deliver a solid punishment. When not soaring the heavens, a Dragoon can hold its ground using abilities borrowed from dragons themselves, heavy armor, and a solid chunk of HP. It can fight in any environment, but excels above ground where it can use its mighty jumping capabilities.

    Alignment: Any. Evil Dragoons will typically associate with chromatic dragons, and Good Dragoons with metallic. They tend to be Lawful over Chaotic.

    Hit Die: d10

    Starting Wealth: As Fighter.

    Class skills:
    The dragoon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge Arcana (Int), Knowledge Nobility (Int), Knowledge History (Int), Ride (Dex), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str).

    Draconic is a free language for Dragoons.


    Skill ranks per level: 4 + intelligence modifier.

    Table: Dragoon
    Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Reflex Save Will Save Special
    1st +1 +2 +2 +0 Winged Assault, Draconic Allegiance, Soft Fall 10ft
    2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Avoid Breath, Weapon Focus
    3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 One with Sky and Steel, Soft Fall 20ft
    4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Dragoon Jump, Freedom
    5th +5 +4 +4 +1 Dragonheart, Leap of the Heavens, Soft Fall 30ft, Allegiance +4
    6th +6 +5 +5 +2 Impale
    7th +7 +5 +5 +2 Dragonsoul, Wyrmguard, Soft Fall 40ft, Dragonheart +4d6
    8th +8 +6 +6 +2 Energize Weapons, Dragoon Defense
    9th +9 +6 +6 +3 Expand Draconis Fundamentum, Soft Fall 50ft, Dragonheart +5d6
    10th +10 +7 +7 +3 Fleet of Foot, Lightning Leap, Draconic +6
    11th +11 +7 +7 +3 Rebound, Fusillade of Spears, Soft Fall 60ft, Dragonheart +6d6
    12th +12 +8 +8 +4 Deep Breath, Dragon Soul +5, Energize Weapon +2d6
    13th +13 +8 +8 +4 Sky Vigil, Soft Fall 70ft, Dragonheart +7d6
    14th +14 +9 +9 +4 Twin Breath, Dragoon Jump Mastery, Wyrmguard +4
    15th +15 +9 +9 +5 Extra Rebound, Draconic +6, Soft Fall 80ft, Dragonheart +8d6
    16th +16 +10 +10 +5 Seismic Launch, Energize Weapon +3d6
    17th +17 +10 +10 +5 Harmony of Body and Soul, Soft Fall 90ft, Dragonheart +9d6
    18th +18 +11 +11 +6 Elemental Affliction
    19th +19 +11 +11 +6 Avalanche of Spears, Perfect Soft Fall, Dragonheart +10d6
    20th +20 +12 +12 +6 Dragon Rise, Draconic +8 Energize Weapon +4d6

    Class Features
    The following are class features for a Dragoon:

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    A dragoon is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (except tower shields).

    Winged Assault (ex):
    Your jumping skills can be used to great effect in combat. When you charge an enemy, you can complement your charge with a powerful forward jump. At any time after running at least 20ft (a running start), you may attempt a jump check to move further and ignore difficult terrain. If that jump is enough to reach your opponent, you may attack normally as per a charge, and you receive a +1 damage bonus per 10ft jumped.

    In addition, depending on your jump result, it may be possible to jump over creatures in your way. You provoke AoO as normal for moving, but they do not impair your movement. Refer to the table below for DCs.

    If you do not jump far enough, you stop in your landed square and the charge is wasted. If your jump DC is not enough to clear over a creature in your way, you stop in front of that creature and the charge is canceled.

    Table: Jumping over creatures
    Opponent Size Jump DC
    Fine None*
    Diminutive None*
    Tiny 0
    Small 10
    Medium 20
    Large 40
    Huge 80
    Gargantuan 160
    Colossal 320
    *Any jump can pass over these creatures.

    Draconic Allegiance (ex):
    A Dragoon may choose to become a defender of true dragons. Choose either Chromatic, Metallic or Gem Dragons. You gain a +2 bonus to diplomacy checks made with dragons you have sworn to defend. In addition, you gain a +2 damage bonus against all other dragons. (Including non-true dragons.)

    Regardless of your choice, you gain an equal bonus to all knowledge checks related to dragons.

    Alternatively, you may choose to slay all dragons equally. In that case, you do not benefit from the diplomacy bonus, but you may apply the damage bonus to all dragons.

    These bonuses increase by 2 at level 5, and every 5 level thereafter.

    Soft Fall (ex):
    A Dragoon can gracefully recover from a fall or a jump with seemingly no injuries. At level 1, a Dragoon ignores the first 10ft of a fall when calculating damage. In addition, a Dragoon always lands on its feet. The distance ignored increases by 10ft at every 2 Dragoon levels. At level 19, you become immune to fall damage.

    Avoid Breath (ex):
    At level 2, a Dragoon is treated as having Evasion (as the rogue ability) against Breath weapons. Unlike Evasion, a Dragoon can completely avoid the effects of a Breath weapon that requires a Fortitude or Will save with a successful saving throw. This ability works with all types of armor.

    (Does not count as Evasion for the sake of prerequisites and qualifications.)

    Weapon Focus (ex):
    A level 2 Dragoon may choose a weapon to specialize in a weapon of his choice. Choose a piercing weapon you are proficient with. You gain the Weapon Focus feat for that weapon.

    One with Steel and Sky (ex):
    A Dragoon of third level is unhindered by the weight of his armor when he reaches for the sky. Your Jump checks are unaffected by Armor Check Penalty.

    Freedom (ex):
    It is said that the greatest of Dragoons are able to reach the moon with a single, mighty leap. At level 4, you are able to jump with tremendous strength, temporarily escaping gravity’s embrace on your body. When you make a vertical jump, you may jump up to 10 times higher than the distance allowed by your jump check.

    In addition, movement made as part of a jump no longer count against your movement speed for the round. Initiating a jump is still considered a move action.

    Dragoon Jump (ex):
    A Dragoon of 4th level finally masters the signature ability of its class. As a standard action, you may attempt a vertical jump and remain in the air at the peak of your jump for the rest of the round. This action provokes attacks of opportunity as normal for movement.

    At the beginning of your next turn, you may move up to your speed as a move action, as if you had a perfect fly speed. Then, you fall. At any time during your fall, you may attack an enemy you threaten as a standard action. This attack gains a damage bonus of +1 for every 10ft fallen (max = Dragoon level). It is considered a Dive attack (doubling damage as normal), except that it works with any piercing weapon. If you somehow have multiple attacks, only the first attack receives the damage and dive bonus.

    Any effect that would slow down your fall (such as Feather Fall) ruins the precise momentum of your strike and prevents the bonus damage from applying.

    You do not incur fall damage after landing from a Dragoon Jump.

    Dragonheart (su):
    Though dragons are naturally born with the power to breathe mighty blasts of energy, skilled Dragoons develop this ability through great training and meditation. Choose a type of energy from the following list : Fire, Cold, Electricity, Acid. You may breathe a 30ft line or a 15ft cone of this energy as a standard action. The damage is 3d6, and increases by 1d6 at every 2 dragoon levels after the 5th. The Reflex save DC is equal to 10 + ½ Dragoon level + Con modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Constitution bonus.

    This ability does not qualify for Metabreath feats.

    Leap of the Heavens (ex):
    At level 5, you gain Leap of the Heavens as a bonus feat, even if you do not meet the prerequisites.

    In addition, you no longer need a running start for Winged Assault,

    Impale (ex):
    A Dragoon’s spear is a lethal weapon. Whenever you attack with a piercing polearm weapon, you can instead decide to make an impaling strike. Choose a target you threaten. All creatures (including allies) standing between you and your target are subject to your attack. Make a separate attack roll for each, starting with the enemy closest to you. Every attack roll after the first take a cumulative -2 penalty.

    To see if a creature is part of your impaling strike, trace an invisible line starting from the middle of your square to the middle of your target's square. If it passes through two opposite sides of another creature's square, it is struck. If you occupy several squares at once, choose one square to start the invisible line with.

    It is possible to strike enemies you do not threaten using this ability, as long as they are between you and your target.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Example of Impale used right

    Dragonsoul (su):
    A Dragoon’s very soul and heart radiate in unison with draconic power. At level 7, you gain energy resistance 5 matching your Dragonheart’s selected energy. At level 12, it increases to 10. You become immune to this energy type at level 17.

    Wyrmguard (ex):
    At level 7, a Dragoon gains a +2 competence bonus to saves against spells, abilities, and spell-like abilities used by dragons. In addition, it becomes immune to the frightful presence of dragons. At level 14, this bonus increases to +4.
    Energize Weapons (su):
    While using its Dragonheart ability, a Dragoon of level 8 may choose to imbue its held weapon(s) with the energy of its breath attack. As a free action after using a Dragonheart ability, you can energize up to 2 of your held weapons, giving them an extra 1d6 energy damage matching your breath’s. This damage increases by 1d6 at every 4 levels after 8th. Weapons affected by this ability are unharmed.

    This effect lasts a number of rounds equal to half your CON modifier (min 1)

    You can also energize your weapon without unleashing your breath attack. This can be done as a swift action, and still expends a Dragonheart use.

    Dragoon Defense (ex):
    Experienced Dragoons are particularly at ease in the skies. The wide space available allows them to execute acrobatic feats impossible on land.

    Whenever you are attacked in midair (whether flying or jumping), you may oppose your opponent's attack roll with a Jump check as an immediate action. If your result is superior to the attack roll, the attack misses.

    This ability can be used after learning the result of the attack.

    Expand Draconis Fundamentum (su):
    Choose an additional energy type from the Dragonheart list. When using your Dragonheart ability, you may choose from either energy type. Your Dragonsoul resistance applies to both of these energies.

    Fleet of Foot (ex):
    An experienced Dragoon rides the wind with every step. At level 10, you gain an untyped +10ft bonus to your land and fly speed (if any).

    In addition, you do not incur the speed penalty from wearing medium and heavy armor.

    Lightning Leap (Ex):
    At level 10, a Dragoon may jump as a swift action. This provokes attacks of opportunity as normal for movement.

    Rebound (ex):
    At level 11, you learn how to use your enemy’s size to your advantage. When you initiate a Dragoon Jump, you may use an adjacent enemy as a stepping stone to reach incredible heights while leaving it open to attacks. As an Attack of Opportunity, the enemy makes an attack roll opposed by your Dragoon Jump check. If you succeed, you gain a bonus to your check equal to +4 for each size category bigger than you. The target is also considered flat footed until the beginning of its next turn, and you do not provoke attack of opportunity from the victim.

    If your fail the opposed check, the enemy hits you with his attack, and is not flat footed. You also do not benefit from the bonus to jump checks and you take damage as normal. (your Dragoon Jump is not canceled).

    You succeed automatically if the enemy does not take the Attack of Opportunity (willingly or not).

    Fusillade of Spears (Ex):
    You may make your iterative attacks while falling after a Dragoon Jump. These attacks must be made against different targets. The damage and dive bonus apply to all of these attacks.

    Deep Breath (ex):
    The size of your Dragonheart’s cone and line increases to 30ft and 60ft, respectively.

    Sky Vigil (ex):
    A Dragoon’s watchful gaze never falters, and its eyes remain locked on the skies, even as he fights on the ground. Whenever an enemy above you performs an action that would normally provoke an attack of opportunity (such as moving or casting a spell), you may attempt a vertical jump as a free action.

    The enemy must be somewhere above your threatened area, though the vertical distance is not taken into account. Thus, a Dragoon with extended reach could possibly use Sky Vigil against enemies not directly above him.

    If your jump is sufficient to threaten the enemy, you may make a single melee attack against it before falling back to your original position. This action is considered an Attack of Opportunity, and does not provoke Attack of Opportunity.

    Twin Breath (Su):
    You gain the benefit of the Split Breath Metabreath feat, except as noted below. Both portions must be of different energy types. You can freely use your Cone or Line, or both (e.g, you could breathe a 30ft cone of cold, and a 60ft line of acid.). You do not have to wait extra rounds before using this ability again. This counts as one use of your Dragonheart ability.

    For the purpose of Energize Weapon, choose one energy type to apply.

    Dragon Jump Mastery (ex):
    You have mastered the art of the Dragoon Jump. You may now use this ability as a move action. However, you can not Dragoon Jump the same round you landed from a Dragoon Jump.

    Extra Rebound (Su):
    During the ascending phase of your Dragoon Jump, should you find yourself adjacent to a flying enemy, you may quickly react and use your Rebound ability as a free action. Make a new jump starting from that enemy's height.

    This ability can also be used after a Rebound.

    Seismic Launch (Ex):
    A Dragoon of level 16 leaps with such incredible power, the ground is left cracked, and his enemies destabilized. When you initiate a Dragoon Jump, you may choose to let out a powerful localized tremor. All creatures within a 15ft radius must make a Reflex save or fall prone. DC is equal to 10 + ½ Dragoon level + your STR modifier. The victim of a successful Rebound receives no saving throw.

    Unstable ground (such as ice, wood, bridges and so on) may be left shattered by the force of this jump, possibly sending nearby creatures falling to their doom.

    In addition, your Dragoon Jump and movement made as part of a Dragoon Jump no longer provoke attack of opportunity.

    Harmony of Body and Soul (Su):
    At level 17, you become immune to energies matching your Dragonheart ability.

    Elemental Affliction (Su):
    Your breath weapon brings dire consequences to those unable to avoid it. Enemies who fail their Reflex save and take damage from your breath weapon are exposed to additional effects, depending on the energy type :

    Fire : Foe takes half as much damage again in the next round.

    Cold : Move speeds reduced by 30ft for 1 round. Does not stack with itself.

    Electricity : Fort save (DC = 10 + 1/2 Dragoon lvl + Con modifier) or paralyzed for 1 round.

    Acid : Natural AC OR Armor AC reduced by 5 (to a minimum of 0). Overflowing penalty carries over to the next AC type, if any. Natural AC penalty remains until it receives magical healing, or a DC 20 heal check. Armor AC penalty remains until a Mend spell or DC 20 armorcraft check is made.

    Avalanche of Spears (Ex):
    Your Fusillade of Spears ability is no longer limited to different opponents. You may make your full attack against a single enemy.

    Perfect Landing (Ex):
    A master Dragoon’s landing is so refined, eggs would not crack under his feet. Starting at level 19, you become immune to fall damage of all kinds.

    Dragon Rise (Ex):
    By expending a Dragonheart use, you may let loose a powerful blast of energy to bolster your jump. All creatures within a 15ft radius of you when you initiate a Dragoon Jump receive 30 points of energy damage (Reflex half, DC as Dragonheart) chosen from your Dragonheart ability. Those who fail their reflex save are exposed to your Elemental Affliction ability.

    In addition, you gain a bonus to your jump check equal to your Dragoon Level.
    Last edited by Qc Storm; 2014-04-29 at 08:23 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Qc Storm's Avatar

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    Oct 2012

    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Updates

    May 10th
    General : Added Knowledge History and Nobility, as well as Listen to class skills.
    Draconic Allegiance : Added a scaling knowledge bonus.
    Weapon Focus : Increased choice to all piercing weapons.
    Controlled Jump : Removed due to being unnecessary. Replaced with Impale.
    Freedom : Added clause to allow Dragoons to jump further than their move speed allows.
    Impale : Added to fill a dead level, where Dragoon Jump used to be.
    Dragoon Jump : Bumped down to level 4, due to being a core ability of the Dragoon. Impale occupies its previous level 6 spot. Added a clause to remove fall damage.
    Energize Weapon : Increased energy duration.
    Expand Draconis Fundamentum : Both energy types are available permanently.
    Fleet of Foot : Changed bonus type and removed armor speed penalty.
    Rebound : Reworded consequences for failing.
    Elemental affliction : Changed daze to paralysis. Buffed Acid a little, and added non-stacking clauses.
    September 13th
    General : Bits of rewording.
    Evasive Bounce : Changed name to Avoid Breath. Precisions about qualifications.
    Dragonheart : Precisions about qualifications.
    Energize Weapon : Different wording.
    Rebound : Changed to an AoO.
    Sky Vigil : Reworded a bit.
    Seismic Escape : Changed name to Seismic Launch.
    Harmony of Body and Soul : Clarified.
    Elemental Affliction : Gave Paralysis a scaling DC. Acid now only works on natural AC.
    October 4th
    Winged Assault : New ability available at level 1. You are no longer a bad fighter until level 4.
    Leap of the Heavens : Clarified synergy with Winged Assault.
    Lightning Leap : Moved down to level 10. ToB classes earn this ability at level 1.
    Extra Rebound : A minor ability that allows you to jump incredibly high, if circumstances permit.
    Dragoon Defense : A new defensive ability, available at level 8. Slightly patches a Dragoon's flaw : Being a huge AoO magnet.
    Dragoon Jump Mastery : Dragoon Jump becomes a move action, allowing some flexibility before jumps. Also indirectly buffs the capstone.
    Fusillade of Spears : Moved down to level 11.
    Avalanche of Spears : Replaces Fusillade at level 19.
    Elemental Affliction : Now targets Armor AC once again.
    As this is my first attempt at homebrew, feedback is greatly appreciated. Some problems I expect to arise :

    Dragoon Jump is poorly worded

    I agree.

    How can someone possibly jump this high?

    They are very good at jumping.

    I've also been debating removing his good reflex saves. This changed very often during development. I figured Dragoons are jumpy enough to avoid Blast spells easily.

    Soft fall is also another problem. The whole point of the class is to jump high, and fall damage may prevent that. Soft fall may not scale fast enough for the height of your jumps. Maybe I should just make them immune to fall damage altogether?

    Any other feedback is also appreciated.
    Last edited by Qc Storm; 2013-10-04 at 09:12 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Sep 2011

    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Hit Die: d10

    Class skills:
    The dragoon’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge Arcana (Int) Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis) and Swim (Str).

    A Dragoon learns the Draconic language for free.


    Skill ranks per level: 4 + intelligence modifier.
    I can see a d10, but would a d12 be more thematic since they seem to be getting powers from dragons?
    List seems small. How about Handle Animal, Listen, Search, Knowledge (History), and Knowledge (Nobility)? And hooray, more than 2 skill points per level!

    Draconic Allegiance (ex):
    Nice, but the damage bonus is negligible by time it comes into play (unless you fight newborn dragons). Perhaps additional d6 damage to dragons instead? The diplomacy bonus is fine as is.

    Soft Fall (ex):
    This is what the monk ability should be.

    Evasive Bounce (ex):
    I like this.

    Weapon Focus (ex):
    List is extremely limited, and the feat itself is weak. I realize thematic reasons, but you should include the other polearms as well at the minimum.

    One with Steel and Sky (ex):
    Very good and comes into play early enough.

    Controlled Jump (ex):
    Other than stopping your jump after rolling, is this ability necessary? There isn't anything saying you have to jump as far as you roll over jumping a set distance that I can see. In fact, the rules seem to indicate that you choose your distance first and then roll to see if you can make that.

    Freedom (ex):
    Really like this.

    Dragonheart (su):
    Nice, if unexpected. Don't remember any dragoons having it, but I can see why you added it.

    Leap of the Heavens (ex):
    I almost wonder if you should give this earlier. Nice to not have to use a feat slot on it at least.

    Dragoon Jump (ex):
    Nice, but takes too long. Maybe cut out the waiting part? Also, you're looking at only 20ft fly speed as a heavy armored creature.

    Dragonsoul (su):
    I like this.

    Wyrmguard (ex):
    Nice, but extremely limited. Maybe allow it against all spell and spell-like abilities (but not supernatural)?

    Energize Weapons (su):
    Duration seems short, how about 1d4 or CON modifier rounds?

    Expand Draconis Fundamentum (su):
    I would either give them resistance to both and choose which energy when they use the breath weapon, or allow them to choose between all 4 in the morning instead.

    Fleet of Foot (ex):
    Seems really weak for this level.

    Rebound (ex):
    Really like this. Instead of having them roll 2 attacks, why not just say the attack lands if you lose the opposed roll?

    Deep Breath (ex):
    Not too early, not too late.

    Sky Vigil (ex):
    Really like this. How does it affect your maximum allowed distance in a round?

    Twin Breath (Su):
    First part should have been part of the earlier ability, but the second part is nice.

    Lightning Leap (Ex):
    Level 15 seems really late for this. Also, you can still only jump so far in a round anyways.

    Seismic Escape (Ex):
    Really, really like this.

    Harmony of Body and Soul (Su):
    As expected.

    Elemental Affliction (Su):
    Fire : Like this one.
    Cold : Can't tell if it would be better to halve speed or keep as is.
    Electricity : I would forgo the fort save or upgrade it to paralyzed.
    Acid : Why not just AC in general?

    Fusillade of Spears (Ex):
    You do not need to state "If your Base Attack Bonus allows it..." If you have this ability, you have at least a +19 BAB (Unless you go epic rules).

    Perfect Landing (Ex):
    Hooray for falling from orbit and not taking any damage! Seriously, though, don't change it.

    Dragon Rise (Ex):
    You should clarify that it must be of your chosen element, unless you intend for it to be any type (even sonic or force, though they don't have an affliction).

    Dragoon Jump is poorly worded

    I agree.
    I disagree with this statement.

    How can someone possibly jump this high?

    They are very good at jumping.
    That or wizard did it.

    I've also been debating removing his good reflex saves. This changed very often during development. I figured Dragoons are jumpy enough to avoid Blast spells easily.
    I'd either keep it or double Wyrmguards bonuses (and leave it as dragons only).

    Soft fall is also another problem. The whole point of the class is to jump high, and fall damage may prevent that. Soft fall may not scale fast enough for the height of your jumps. Maybe I should just make them immune to fall damage altogether?
    Once they get freedom, they far exceed it.
    At level 4, you are looking at +19 to jump checks (7 ranks, +5 strength (18 base, +2 item), +3 Skill Focus, +4 Run).
    Since vertical jumps are divided by 4 and rounded down, let's see what they get with the rolls 1, 10, and 20.
    1: 20/4 = 5 feet. x10 gives 50ft with 3d6 damage.
    10: 29/4 = 7 feet. x10 gives 70ft with 5d6 falling damage.
    20: 39/4 = 9 feet (just shy of 10). x10 for 90ft with 7d6 falling damage.

    I would give them the ability to ignore all damage from dragoon jumps, but keep soft fall for all other falling. Wording would be weird, but I would also add that they take damage if they fall further than where they started (thus if they jump off a cliff, etc).

    Any other feedback is also appreciated.
    Remember that jump distance is limited per round based on your speed.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Dragoon Generals

    I can see a d10, but would a d12 be more thematic since they seem to be getting powers from dragons?
    List seems small. How about Handle Animal, Listen, Search, Knowledge (History), and Knowledge (Nobility)? And hooray, more than 2 skill points per level!
    d12 could work, but I didnt want to walk into Barbarian territory. That d12 is usually reserved for big tanky classes, which Dragoon may or may not be. Though the fact that dragons get d12s makes sense.

    Listen, history and nobility are fine. I don't think Handle Animal and Search really fit the Dragoon, (search is kind of a generic skill though).

    Draconic Allegiance

    Nice, but the damage bonus is negligible by time it comes into play (unless you fight newborn dragons). Perhaps additional d6 damage to dragons instead? The diplomacy bonus is fine as is.
    So an extra d6 at every upgrade instead of +2? That could work. I may also add a +2 bonus to knowledge checks related to dragons, scaling with the diplomacy bonus.

    Soft Fall
    This is what the monk ability should be.
    I agree.

    Evasive Bounce
    I like this.
    Thanks

    Weapon Focus
    List is extremely limited, and the feat itself is weak. I realize thematic reasons, but you should include the other polearms as well at the minimum.
    How about choosing from any Piercing weapon?

    One with Steel and Sky
    Very good and comes into play early enough.
    No comments here.

    Controlled Jump
    Other than stopping your jump after rolling, is this ability necessary? There isn't anything saying you have to jump as far as you roll over jumping a set distance that I can see. In fact, the rules seem to indicate that you choose your distance first and then roll to see if you can make that.
    I was under the impression that you had to set a DC before jumping, and not reaching it would cause you to fail your jump. If this is not the case, as you are telling me, then yes, that ability is completely unnecessary. I may delete it altogether and stick Dragoon Jump at that level instead. I'll need a new ability for level 6 though.

    Freedom
    Really like this.
    Now we're getting Dragoony.

    Dragonheart
    Nice, if unexpected. Don't remember any dragoons having it, but I can see why you added it.
    Dragoons in the FF tactics series have breath attacks of various elements. They are in fact most of the time more useful than their jump ability. In D&D, It has the advantage of being useable in confined environments where jumping is impossible.

    Leap of the Heavens
    I almost wonder if you should give this earlier. Nice to not have to use a feat slot on it at least.
    That feat was pretty much meant for Dragoons.

    Dragoon Jump
    Nice, but takes too long. Maybe cut out the waiting part? Also, you're looking at only 20ft fly speed as a heavy armored creature.
    Dragoon Jumps have always had a small delay before attacking. In D&D, this is very undesirable, since rounds are few and actions expensive. However, this is considered a dive attack, which means it deals double damage. Combined with the extra damage from Dragoon Jump, this can be extremely lethal and may be worth waiting a turn. (Death by massive damage all day erry day.) You can sprinkle some power attack on top if you are feeling lucky.

    The "moving in the air" part allows you to relocate before falling, in case your initial target died/moved away.

    And as you have stated below, this ability will now not cause fall damage. I've been looking into fixing this problem and you have done so elegantly and simply. You don't get hurt after Dragoon Jumping. Period.

    Dragon Soul
    I like this.
    Protects against dragons, but also useful in your every day adventuring life.

    Wyrmguard
    Nice, but extremely limited. Maybe allow it against all spell and spell-like abilities (but not supernatural)?
    Wouldnt really make sense for it to apply against everything. It's a dwarf thing.
    Energize Weapons
    Duration seems short, how about 1d4 or CON modifier rounds?
    CON modifier would be nice, but will quickly end up lasting for the entire fight. Which may or may not be a bad thing. 1d4 is slightly random and reminds us of dragon breath.

    Expand Draconis Fundamentum
    I would either give them resistance to both and choose which energy when they use the breath weapon, or allow them to choose between all 4 in the morning instead.
    Not a bad idea. I think I'll go with just having both energies available at all times, with the double resistance applying.

    Fleet of Foot
    Seems really weak for this level.
    You may be right. However, remember that increased speed means increased jump. Every 10ft above 30 gives you +4.

    I may change the enhancement bonus to something else, and also have it ignore armor speed penalty. +8 to jumps for free!
    Rebound
    Really like this. Instead of having them roll 2 attacks, why not just say the attack lands if you lose the opposed roll?
    Seems logical and simpler.
    Deep Breath
    Not too early, not too late.
    Good. We are entering unknown territory. I have never played D&D past level 9

    Sky Vigil
    Really like this. How does it affect your maximum allowed distance in a round?
    Does not count against movement used in the round. I should probably add a note about this. However you are supposed to land back in the square you jumped from.

    Twin Breath
    First part should have been part of the earlier ability, but the second part is nice.
    I'll probably make the first part happen earlier, as I said above.

    Lightning Leap
    Level 15 seems really late for this. Also, you can still only jump so far in a round anyways.
    It allows for easy full attacks every round. If I add a clause that dragoons can jump further than their move speed allows, this could get pretty cuhrazy.

    Seismic Escape
    Really, really like this.
    Me too, me too.

    Harmony of Body and Soul
    As expected.
    As it should be.

    Elemental Affliction
    Fire : Like this one.
    Cold : Can't tell if it would be better to halve speed or keep as is.
    Electricity : I would forgo the fort save or upgrade it to paralyzed.
    Acid : Why not just AC in general?
    I may remove the fort save on Electricity, and simply make it happen whenever someone fails the Reflex save for the breath attack. However, this will most likely mean DAZES EVERYWHERE. I could change it to stun. It's more powerful, but doesn't apply to everything, like constructs.

    Acid melts the skin/armor off the victim. At this level, I assume most monsters would have at least 5 armor AC of some sort.
    Fusillade of Spears
    You do not need to state "If your Base Attack Bonus allows it..." If you have this ability, you have at least a +19 BAB (Unless you go epic rules).
    Very true. Could you rephrase what you think the ability does? I want to make sure nobody gets anything wrong. It can be a bit confusing.

    Perfect Landing
    Hooray for falling from orbit and not taking any damage! Seriously, though, don't change it.
    And what better way to fall from orbit than to jump there?

    Dragon Rise
    You should clarify that it must be of your chosen element, unless you intend for it to be any type (even sonic or force, though they don't have an affliction).
    Good catch.

    I'd either keep it or double Wyrmguards bonuses (and leave it as dragons only).
    Could work, though they would be very poor at using Evasive Bounce against non-dragons.


    I would give them the ability to ignore all damage from dragoon jumps, but keep soft fall for all other falling. Wording would be weird, but I would also add that they take damage if they fall further than where they started (thus if they jump off a cliff, etc).
    As I said above, elegant fix. Will be added soon.

    Remember that jump distance is limited per round based on your speed.
    May add a clause about this, allowing dragoons do jump further than their move speed. Would it be too much?

    Thanks for that great feedback by the way. You were very thorough. If you have any homebrew material you'd like me to check out, I'd be happy to return the favor.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    The dragoon class has been updated according to the small feedback I've received. See above for the update notes.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Note to any mods/admins that may be looking cross-eyed at me for necro-posting: I'm not sure if it matters, but OP asked for feedback, so I'm giving it.

    Hit Die: d10
    I agree with the other guy. A d10 just does not feel like it has enough oomph for a dragon-themed class.

    A Dragoon learns the Draconic language for free.
    You may want to change the wording on this to "Draconic is a free language for a Dragoon". Minor quibble, but if you word things the way the core books do, people are more likely to accept your homebrew.

    Draconic Allegiance (ex):
    Just a thought, but you may wish to include gem dragons in there. This is more of a 'food for thought' kind of thing than a criticism.

    Soft Fall (ex):
    I agree with the other guy: this is what the monk's slow fall should have been.

    Evasive Bounce (ex):
    This is awkwardly named, and you should mention if it counts as evasion for the purposes of qualifying for PrCs/feats/etc. Something about 'evasive bounce' just doesn't gel the way the other class feature names do.

    Weapon Focus (ex):
    Nothing to say here; this fits thematically and is inarguably balanced.

    [QUOTE]One with Steel and Sky (ex):]/QUOTE]
    This is one of those class features that is perfectly timed: nobody has the money for the seriously heavy armors at levels one and two, but neither do they yet have the money to make everything mithril/enchanted at L3. Good show.

    (It should be noted that unlike a lot of early features in other classes, this one is never truly useless; why spend money completely obliterating your AC penalty when you don't have to?)

    Freedom (ex):
    Very good way of taking out one of the serious roadblocks in a dragoon build.

    Dragoon Jump (ex):
    I never would have thought of this, but I like it.

    Dragonheart (su):
    Something that needs clarification here is whether or not Dragonheart counts as a breath weapon for the purpose of qualifying for meta-breath feats. Twin Breath suggests it does, but you cannot possibly go wrong with spelling it out.

    Leap of the Heavens (ex):
    Nice.

    Impale (ex):
    An interesting choice in class features. Seems to be best against hordes of lower-CR monsters. I'm undecided as to whether or not this is necessary; Dragonheart does a decent job at giving the dragoon a way of dealing with multiple targets.

    Dragonsoul (su):
    I actually think this is too low. At level 7, nobody cares about ER5 of any element. You might try starting it at ER10 and increasing to ER20, then immunity.

    Wyrmguard (ex):
    This is really very helpful. Considering some of the sorcerer spells dragons get, not to mention the spell-likes, this could very easily save some poor dragoon's life, especially since they have a weak Will save.

    Energize Weapons (su):
    The first sentence of this is worded awkwardly, since a dragoon can use Energize Weapons without actually using Dragonheart.

    Expand Draconis Fundamentum (su):
    Unremarkable except that it is useful.

    Fleet of Foot (ex):
    Also useful.

    Rebound (ex):
    You should specify if the enemy's attack counts as an attack of opportunity or not. Some feats and abilities give a bonus to those, so it's important to know, also, if it did count that way it would count against the opponent's attack of opportunities for that round.

    Deep Breath (ex):
    Mundane but functional.

    Sky Vigil (ex):
    This has a bit of a thorny issue with it: what defines 'above you'? Would it be only an enemy in the column directly above you? Five feet in every direction? My quibble here is unique in that I'm not actually sure what the solution would be: to leave it as a DM adjudication or to change the wording to be more specific.

    Twin Breath (Su):
    Nice to have.

    Lightning Leap (Ex):
    I'm running out of ways to say 'nice and does not require commentary/fixing', can you tell?

    Seismic Escape (Ex):
    I'm not fond of the name of this feature. Maybe 'Seismic Launch'? Also, that last bit should probably be its own feature, as it has nothing to do with Seismic Escape itself.

    Harmony of Body and Soul (Su):
    This is slightly unclear. Does it mean that you will be fine if you somehow get caught in your own breath weapon, or does it mean if you have a fire-element breath weapon, you gain immunity to fire? If the latter, try saying something like, "At level 17, you gain immunity to the element you chose for your Dragonheart ability'.

    Elemental Affliction (Su):
    Three problems here: one, do you really want it to be enemies that both fail their Reflex save and take damage are exposed to the affliction? I split hairs here because it's entirely possible to fail the Reflex save but be immune to the energy type, or to fail it and still take half damage because you don't have evasion or an equivalent.

    Two, the electricity affliction stands out as scaling very badly. It's a flat Fortsave that dragons will laugh at. Even white dragons, often seen to be the weakest of the lot, will easily be able to make that save when they're in the adult age category (CR10, Fort save of +15). That's to say nothing of young adult reds (CR13, Fort save +16) or young adult golds (CR14, Fort save +17). The rest of the afflictions scale as well as Dragonheart does, but electricity will quickly go from situational to useless and stay there for the rest of the game. Paralysis is a powerful effect, true, but if that's the concern, change it to something else.

    Three, acid needs a bit of a change. The natural AC reduction being negated by either magical healing or a Heal check makes perfect sense. Armor AC being negated by these things makes sense not at all. I'm not sure how to fix that, but right now it doesn't really work fluff-wise.

    Fusillade of Spears (Ex):
    This has a very cool visual of the dragoon bouncing between targets, and means he can very easily clear a room within a few rounds, given enough room to jump.

    Perfect Landing (Ex):
    Works on both the mechanical and fluff levels.

    Dragon Rise (Ex):
    This is a very appropriate capstone ability, and means no epic-level dragoon will ever need to put another rank in Jump ever.

    I'm very sorry if there are grammar or spelling issues in this post; I was feeling fairly self-conscious toward the end and if I'd gone back to proof-read, I never would have posted it.
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    I agree with the other guy. A d10 just does not feel like it has enough oomph for a dragon-themed class.
    This is becoming a popular request, but I'm not too certain yet. While dragons DO have d12, they are notorious for having "good everything". I wouldn't want the Dragoon to become some self-insert class perfect at everything.


    You may want to change the wording on this to "Draconic is a free language for a Dragoon". Minor quibble, but if you word things the way the core books do, people are more likely to accept your homebrew.
    Simple enough.

    Just a thought, but you may wish to include gem dragons in there. This is more of a 'food for thought' kind of thing than a criticism.
    Are gem dragons a separate category from Chromatic and Metallic dragons? I would assume so.

    This is awkwardly named, and you should mention if it counts as evasion for the purposes of qualifying for PrCs/feats/etc. Something about 'evasive bounce' just doesn't gel the way the other class feature names do.
    I'll try to think of another name, and I do not think it will count as Evasion for the sake of Prereqs. Most of those would not really fit the Dragoon I think, since they are mostly rogue and monk things.


    Something that needs clarification here is whether or not Dragonheart counts as a breath weapon for the purpose of qualifying for meta-breath feats. Twin Breath suggests it does, but you cannot possibly go wrong with spelling it out.
    Since it does not have a cooldown expressed in rounds, it does not qualify. But I will make it clearer. I'm not really keen on Metabreath feat on players, since some of them have no limit to how high you can improve them, leading to some strange scenarios (Who cares about the 100 rounds cooldown? The DC is 50!).

    An interesting choice in class features. Seems to be best against hordes of lower-CR monsters. I'm undecided as to whether or not this is necessary; Dragonheart does a decent job at giving the dragoon a way of dealing with multiple targets.
    This ability comes from the Final Fantasy Tactics games, where spears have the unique ability of hitting two squares. Since the Dragoon is primarily a martial class, and this seemed fun in D&D, I tried bringing it over. I believe it brings a good reward to tactical positioning, something dragoons are proficient at, due to jumps.

    I actually think this is too low. At level 7, nobody cares about ER5 of any element. You might try starting it at ER10 and increasing to ER20, then immunity.
    Fair enough. Although I am not entirely convinced, considering this is a permanent resistance to 2 energy types of your choice.

    The first sentence of this is worded awkwardly, since a dragoon can use Energize Weapons without actually using Dragonheart.
    Will edit.

    You should specify if the enemy's attack counts as an attack of opportunity or not. Some feats and abilities give a bonus to those, so it's important to know, also, if it did count that way it would count against the opponent's attack of opportunities for that round.
    I was actually thinking about that, but never got around to adding it yet. It only makes sense.

    This has a bit of a thorny issue with it: what defines 'above you'? Would it be only an enemy in the column directly above you? Five feet in every direction? My quibble here is unique in that I'm not actually sure what the solution would be: to leave it as a DM adjudication or to change the wording to be more specific.
    It's hard to put into words, but I intended it to be inside your horizontal reach, but with no limit in height.

    I'm not fond of the name of this feature. Maybe 'Seismic Launch'? Also, that last bit should probably be its own feature, as it has nothing to do with Seismic Escape itself.
    I put it there since it makes the "Seismic" aspect sound more powerful, and tells DMs that its ok to give this ability different effects depending on terrain. In my experience, some DMs have a hard time granting such things if the rules do not specifically allow it.

    This is slightly unclear. Does it mean that you will be fine if you somehow get caught in your own breath weapon, or does it mean if you have a fire-element breath weapon, you gain immunity to fire? If the latter, try saying something like, "At level 17, you gain immunity to the element you chose for your Dragonheart ability'.
    Yes, the latter. I don't know any way to get caught in your own breath to be honest.

    Three problems here: one, do you really want it to be enemies that both fail their Reflex save and take damage are exposed to the affliction? I split hairs here because it's entirely possible to fail the Reflex save but be immune to the energy type, or to fail it and still take half damage because you don't have evasion or an equivalent.
    It is meant as a small bonus, that is not supposed to be completely reliable. They were based on Frost Breath (the spell). It would be strange for a White Dragon to be slowed by a cold breath, even if it failed its reflex save. Likewise for the others.
    Two, the electricity affliction stands out as scaling very badly. It's a flat Fort save that dragons will laugh at. Even white dragons, often seen to be the weakest of the lot, will easily be able to make that save when they're in the adult age category (CR10, Fort save of +15). That's to say nothing of young adult reds (CR13, Fort save +16) or young adult golds (CR14, Fort save +17). The rest of the afflictions scale as well as Dragonheart does, but electricity will quickly go from situational to useless and stay there for the rest of the game. Paralysis is a powerful effect, true, but if that's the concern, change it to something else.
    First, I don't think White Dragons would be that bothered to begin with, since they are immune to paralysis. But you are right. Paralysis IS powerful, but since it requires two saves to work (and a Fort one at that), it might not be too crazy to make it scale.

    Three, acid needs a bit of a change. The natural AC reduction being negated by either magical healing or a Heal check makes perfect sense. Armor AC being negated by these things makes sense not at all. I'm not sure how to fix that, but right now it doesn't really work fluff-wise.
    Might only have it work on Natural AC. Everything has some at this level, right?

    I'm very sorry if there are grammar or spelling issues in this post; I was feeling fairly self-conscious toward the end and if I'd gone back to proof-read, I never would have posted it.
    I'm glad you did. See above for the update notes.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Hm, I like the flavor of this class and that it actually emulates the Jump attacks from FF. I usually evaluate classes like these by looking at what kind of build I would make, comparing to a relevant class. (Probably warblade in this case - you said you were looking for ToB T3ishness)

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    Okay, here we go - I want to look at the first 10 levels just for kicks
    Level 1: I start my career as a Dragoon with a polearm and some sort of cheap armor. I decide to devote myself to defending Metallic Dragons - I get some random tiny bonuses, but against enemies that I won't encounter at this level, or even several more levels from now. Slow fall is cool, but I don't have any mechanical use for it yet. Let's say that I'm human - I'll grab Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush. A Tiger Claw Warblade is in a stance that boosts his damage, can thwart will saves, jump as a swift action, and has a way to attack multiple targets, all while taking the same feats as I do.

    Level 2: Okay, I get blanket evasion against breath weapons. It's nice if I come up against Young dragons, but not much else. I also get a bonus feat pre-chosen for me. Great, but it's always more fun to pick from a list of options. The Warblade's Battle Insight means that he is probably about even with me on ref saves, so I just have that evasion edge, while he probably picked up a charge maneuver that will have great synergy with Shock Trooper later.

    Level 3: My jump checks are uninhibited by armor, but that doesn't matter yet since I don't have a mechanic to use with jumps until next level. Warblade just picked up his first 2nd level maneuver, probably Emerald Razor to hit tough targets. (incidentally, I am probably having trouble hitting dragons, while touch AC is a main weakness for Dragons)

    Level 4: Finally, my main ability comes online. I get to jump vertically as a move action. Lets assume +3 for Str 16, +4 for Run feat at lvl 3, +2 Balance synergy, and 7 ranks in Jump - for a total modifier of +16 without optimization/items. That means that I'm jumping 60ft in the air on average with a running start, 20ft from standing. That's right in line with the range of a medium dragon's breath weapon, so I'm good on that. My new trick is pretty awesome against flying enemies and grounded ones too, but slow: I essentially fly up to their height on round one, and then Dive attack multiple targets on round two. The Warblade got another stance, probably Hunter's Sense (Scent is that awesome), and is dealing roughly the same bonus damage on a jump with Claw at the Moon (one target only though) but he's ground-bound and I have limited flying.

    Level 5: Another pre-chosen bonus feat, although one that I would have wanted anyways. Oh, and I get a burning hands-weak AoE weapon as well. And crap, my main schtick of dealing with flyers is attainable by any mundane with arcane support (fly becomes available to wizards). At least mine is useable unlimited times per day though. Warblade is getting some serious bonus damage out of things like Soaring Raptor Strike, while leaping dragon stance is letting him get great bonuses and essentially is the same as my bonus feat.

    Level 6: Impale is pretty good - no complaints here, just tons of attacks when the party wizard casts Enlarge Person on me. I had to take Leap Attack over Shock Trooper though - I'm screwed anytime the ceiling is too low to make dive attacks.

    Level 7: Energy Resistance is always welcome, I'm happy to get that for free. And so are some random bonuses to saves vs dragons. Warblade is now rocking Int to damage, and picked up Death from Above to start cramping my style.

    Level 8: Finally! I get to buff my weapons, that's always cool.

    Level 9: Some new AoE damage types, and my falling damage reducer gets better. Why do I care about falling damage? Dragoon Jump doesn't cause me damage, I'm confused. Warblade got pounce - his charges and leap attacks are starting to make my Dragoon Jump seem less lustrous.

    Level 10: Cool movement bonuses, but kinda irrelevant considering that I'm spending all my time two-turn jumping. Warblade picked up awesome, I don't even want to know.


    I'm not saying that the Dragoon is bad. It's actually quite decent, essentially giving three combat options to a melee combatant - jumping, AoE blasting, and impaling. Probably low T3/high T4 in a Dragon-centric campaign. However, I think that it's execution could use some work. If all you want are those three things, a PrC would be much more appropriate, because as it stands, the only really unique thing that the Dragoon has is the Jump.

    Levels 1-3, you are essentially a CW Samurai, feats chosen for you and all. That sucks.

    Level 4, you are suddenly awesome vs flyers (for a fighting-type). Jump comes with severe drawbacks however, requiring two rounds to execute vs ground-bound targets, and you are just better off charging opponents on the ground.

    Levels 5-10, you get to throw out some weak AoE (Impale is likely stronger than your breath weapon if you chose a line, and 15ft is a small cone)

    Levels 10-15, Sky Vigil is probably OP and gets you into this weird game where nobody is allowed to fly without you AoO them. It's powerful, but makes the game into a ground fight, where you should be charging instead of Dragoon Jumping. Lightning Leap duplicates a 1st level maneuver, meh.

    Levels 16-20, the abilities you get are marginal at best besides the ability to pounce on a dive.

    Basically, the only thing separating this class from all others is the Dragoon Jump. And you get it all at once. So for those few levels when you get it, you are awesome, but for the rest meh. Personally, I would separate out Dragoon jump into component parts (extreme jumping, hover, dive, attacking multiple targets on a dive, pounce-dive, burst AoE when jumping, short flight, etc) and spread them out over a 10 level Tiger-Claw (maybe require favored enemy dragons for a ranger dip? not sure) based PrC with a scalable breath weapon thrown in. Right now, I see this class as one unique ability that isn't that powerful overall (but cool and fun), but is given all at once and quite powerful in that time. Later enhancements are kinda meh add-ons, adding more flavor than crunch.

    I hope you will consider these thoughts on your class - it is an awesome way for mundanes to deal with flyers without resorting to flying or ranged combat.
    Last edited by DR27; 2013-09-14 at 03:20 PM.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by DR27 View Post
    Hm, I like the flavor of this class and that it actually emulates the Jump attacks from FF. I usually evaluate classes like these by looking at what kind of build I would make, comparing to a relevant class. (Probably warblade in this case - you said you were looking for ToB T3ishness)
    Your points are valid. But I wish for this to remain a base class.

    Sky Vigil, you mentioned as OP. I do not see any inherent problems with it, as smart enemies will quickly learn that aerial space over the dragoon is unsafe. Considering there are rarely any obstacles in the air, fliers can easily maneuver around the dragoon (in itself creating an intangible obstacle, not a bad thing.) Even if the dragoon receives an AoO, it is not terribly destructive (unless the dragoon has improved grapple, in which case things suddenly become awesome.)

    You speak of Dragoon Jump being insufficient. What do you suggest to improve it? (assuming Dragoon remains a base class)

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Sky Vigil, you mentioned as OP. I do not see any inherent problems with it, as smart enemies will quickly learn that aerial space over the dragoon is unsafe. Considering there are rarely any obstacles in the air, fliers can easily maneuver around the dragoon (in itself creating an intangible obstacle, not a bad thing.) Even if the dragoon receives an AoO, it is not terribly destructive (unless the dragoon has improved grapple, in which case things suddenly become awesome.)

    You speak of Dragoon Jump being insufficient. What do you suggest to improve it? (assuming Dragoon remains a base class)
    I'm not sure if it's OP (I struck that part through), but it allows the Dragoon to ground any flyer who provokes an AoO by tripping. Maybe that's what you want to see, but as I said before - it makes things into a ground game, where you would be better off charging, and suddenly your best class feature is out.

    I never said Dragoon Jump is insufficient - I said that it is given all in one package, so you start life off as a crappy fighter, then suddenly get awesome. Later on, the action economy passes you by since you spend half your turns jumping up. Having AoE blasts upon jumping is nice, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's better to Dragoon Jump grounded foes than charge them. Eventually, there are no flying foes left because you have Sky Vigil.

    The power curve for the class is very choppy, where you start with suck, hit a very good peak early, and then slowly descend from there. Giving some use for jumping at lvl 1 or 2 would be nice, as would a way to jump without giving up turns later on. You need to make this be a viable alternative to getting a fly spell cast on your character.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    I'd play this. I'd play this hard.

    IMO, this is a great attempt at fixing the "mundanes" problem of D&D. It is undoubtedly not a gish, but it attempts to do things normally limited to mages without magic, and I like that.

    I'm a somewhat amateur homebrewer myself so I don't think I can make any comments what haven't already been touched on...

    One thing that bothers me though is the flavor of the Impale class. While it SOUNDS bloody incredible to turn a line of hapless enemies into a macabre shiskebab, logically shouldn't an attack like that involve some kind of grappling/pushback, rather than just hitting each enemy in succession?

    Look up Hamatula Strike to get an idea of what I'm talking about. But all the enemies who you manage to strike and stick on your spear should probably end in a square near you.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Hrmmm...ok, just a quick one.

    Read the class, love it, looks like a lot of fun...I played about with similar themes a few years back but ended up presenting a full array of items which allowed this sort of stuff, because back then I wasn't brewing much. Top marks dudeski, it's pretty tight.

    Game balance looks fine, nothing sticks out as horribly OP and I reckon it stands up reasonably well against the stronger/magic classes in terms of game effectiveness and fun (if not Tier, they are CERTAINLY tier 4, possibly low tier 3, but still lack a lot of versatility).

    One niggle, and it's simply an editing issue, the table entries present Dragonheart as 4D6 at levels 7 AND 9, then start scaling, basically you need to re-number the entries at 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th and 19th levels.

    Currently nothing more to add, sweet bit'o'brewin'
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by DR27 View Post
    I never said Dragoon Jump is insufficient - I said that it is given all in one package, so you start life off as a crappy fighter, then suddenly get awesome. Later on, the action economy passes you by since you spend half your turns jumping up. Having AoE blasts upon jumping is nice, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's better to Dragoon Jump grounded foes than charge them. Eventually, there are no flying foes left because you have Sky Vigil.

    The power curve for the class is very choppy, where you start with suck, hit a very good peak early, and then slowly descend from there. Giving some use for jumping at lvl 1 or 2 would be nice, as would a way to jump without giving up turns later on. You need to make this be a viable alternative to getting a fly spell cast on your character.
    Hmm, yes. I might shift some things around.

    Right now the Dragoon Jump requires a Standard action to initiate, and a Standard action to complete. I intend to make the initiation a Swift action later on (and drop Fusillade of spears lower). This allows you to potentially attack/full attack and prepare a powerful Dragoon Jump for the next round.

    Lightning Leap might be dropped a bit lower, since it is essentially a level 1 maneuver (though unlimited and powered by Steroids jumps).

    I can think of a minor jump ability at lower levels. Perhaps something akin to Battle jump, but not so strong. Charge and Jump at the same time for a bonus. What kind of bonus?

    I'd play this. I'd play this hard.

    IMO, this is a great attempt at fixing the "mundanes" problem of D&D. It is undoubtedly not a gish, but it attempts to do things normally limited to mages without magic, and I like that.

    I'm a somewhat amateur homebrewer myself so I don't think I can make any comments what haven't already been touched on...

    One thing that bothers me though is the flavor of the Impale class. While it SOUNDS bloody incredible to turn a line of hapless enemies into a macabre shiskebab, logically shouldn't an attack like that involve some kind of grappling/pushback, rather than just hitting each enemy in succession?

    Look up Hamatula Strike to get an idea of what I'm talking about. But all the enemies who you manage to strike and stick on your spear should probably end in a square near you.
    Thank you for your kind comments. While Hamatula Strike sounds like a very interesting ability, it does not really respect my source material (and seems like a diceroll nightmare for anyone involved). If Impale sounds unrealistic, try not to think of the fact that a Dragoon can do it with a Spiked Chain.

    Hrmmm...ok, just a quick one.

    Read the class, love it, looks like a lot of fun...I played about with similar themes a few years back but ended up presenting a full array of items which allowed this sort of stuff, because back then I wasn't brewing much. Top marks dudeski, it's pretty tight.

    Game balance looks fine, nothing sticks out as horribly OP and I reckon it stands up reasonably well against the stronger/magic classes in terms of game effectiveness and fun (if not Tier, they are CERTAINLY tier 4, possibly low tier 3, but still lack a lot of versatility).

    One niggle, and it's simply an editing issue, the table entries present Dragonheart as 4D6 at levels 7 AND 9, then start scaling, basically you need to re-number the entries at 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th and 19th levels.

    Currently nothing more to add, sweet bit'o'brewin'
    Thanks, good catch. Fixed it now.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    I like it a lot, there have been dozens of crappy write-ups of the dragoon class over the years since Final Fantasy 4/2 came out all of them incredibly crappy, yours is easily the best, good work, I hope to see more from you in the future
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    A fellow Dragoon-brewer! Good day, sir.

    One big thing that I see as being problematic with this class is that its abilities come online late. Dragoon Jump comes at level 4, and those first 3 levels don't have anything that really does anything for them in combat unless it's against dragons, and even then it's only little. Dragoon Jump could easily be given at level 1 and some other combat ability be granted at level 3 or 4.

    Where can Leap of the Heavens be found?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAdam View Post
    I like it a lot, there have been dozens of crappy write-ups of the dragoon class over the years since Final Fantasy 4/2 came out all of them incredibly crappy, yours is easily the best, good work, I hope to see more from you in the future
    If you don't mind, I'd like to hear your critique of my Limit Dragoon sometime. Considering your words, I'm sure I could learn a thing or two from you to improve it.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2013-09-18 at 06:53 AM.
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAdam View Post
    I like it a lot, there have been dozens of crappy write-ups of the dragoon class over the years since Final Fantasy 4/2 came out all of them incredibly crappy, yours is easily the best, good work, I hope to see more from you in the future
    Danke friend.

    One big thing that I see as being problematic with this class is that its abilities come online late. Dragoon Jump comes at level 4, and those first 3 levels don't have anything that really does anything for them in combat unless it's against dragons, and even then it's only little. Dragoon Jump could easily be given at level 1 and some other combat ability be granted at level 3 or 4.

    Where can Leap of the Heavens be found?
    I'm currently brainstorming a little rework.

    Leap of the heavens is PHB 2 p.80

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    @ OP: Ah, I see now.
    Last edited by The Oni; 2013-09-19 at 03:16 PM.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    [QUOTE=so sayeth Morph Bark
    If you don't mind, I'd like to hear your critique of my Limit Dragoon sometime. Considering your words, I'm sure I could learn a thing or two from you to improve it.[/QUOTE]

    I did say All the ones I have seen are terrible, and while I have seen a great many feeble attempts at recreating the sheer awesomeness of the dragoon, I haven't seen ALL of them, There are probably a good many that are good, great , freaking amazing, but so far...no...they're all just awful, I would like to see your version, It might be amazing
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAdam View Post
    I did say All the ones I have seen are terrible, and while I have seen a great many feeble attempts at recreating the sheer awesomeness of the dragoon, I haven't seen ALL of them, There are probably a good many that are good, great , freaking amazing, but so far...no...they're all just awful, I would like to see your version, It might be amazing
    You can find it here.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168962

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Hey, QC. I just got this class approved for a game I'm applying for. I'll let you know how it goes!
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by nersxe View Post
    Hey, QC. I just got this class approved for a game I'm applying for. I'll let you know how it goes!
    That's great news. I was expecting it to remain unplayed forever. Great to have some field testing.

    You can keep me updated through personal messages, or using a more instant mean of communication (Facebook/Steam). I don't bite.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Sky Vigil should be an immediate action, not a free action. Free actions can still only be performed on your turn, whereas an immediate action is performed in response to another action.

    I would scale back the breath weapon a bit. Maybe every four levels instead of every two. Even Half-Dragons don't get a breath weapon that powerful, and their parent was a dragon.

    I agree that the acid penalty should apply to all non-magical armor, not just natural armor. Relatively few creatures actually have natural armor, and those that don't suffer no penalty with this effect. If you have a roomful of heavy fighters, it would be more rounded to say it weakens their plate armor by a bit. How about it hits worn armor first, to a minimum AC bonus of 0, and then any leftover affects natural armor, to a minimum AC bonus of 0?

    Impale is good, but reach weapons provoke an attack of opportunity when used and they don't threaten squares next to them. How about, as an added effect of the ability, you don't provoke AoO and you treat all squares within your range as threatened while weilding a reach weapon?

    Fleet of Foot is interesting, but its effects could be absorbed into the Freedom ability. As a replacement, how about a form of horizontal charging jump that lets you attack all enemies you threaten along the path as a full-round action? Movement still provokes AoO, but you may get more attacks than normally allotted. The distance traveled, and the number of targets, would increase as your Jump skill increases.

    Dragon Rise. The image of it in my head is epic. The only thing I would change is make it an actual attack where the burst comes after you land and have it use up all your remaining Dragonheart uses that day to increase its radius by 5' and the DC by 2 per use expended. You leap into the air surrounded by a dragon-shaped shell of energy that explodes on contact.

    Otherwise, I request permission to copy this down and use it in my game

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Just remembered: there is a feat in Races of the Wild (I think) called Dive Attack that does extra damage depending on how far you dropped. Maybe have dragoon jump be just the jump and attack, and give them Dive Attack as a bonus feat? I don't know if it continues to scale though, so feel free to ignore this at your convenience.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Sky Vigil should be an immediate action, not a free action. Free actions can still only be performed on your turn, whereas an immediate action is performed in response to another action.
    You are right. However, Sky Vigil is an attack of opportunity, which is a sort of action on its own. On top of that, making it an immediate action is a severe nerf, since you cannot use it if you have already made an immediate. This also prevents you from taking swift actions during your next round, which is a severe nerf considering the Magic Item Compendium puts a heavy tax on swift actions.

    I would scale back the breath weapon a bit. Maybe every four levels instead of every two. Even Half-Dragons don't get a breath weapon that powerful, and their parent was a dragon.
    Half-dragons get at-will 6d8 breath weapons right off the bat. While it ends up being slightly weaker than the dragoon's, a dragoon's is a bit more limited.

    What else, 1d6 per 4 levels would make it completely useless. No monster at level 20 will even notice a 5d6 damage. That's around 15 damage on average, without counting the reflex save and frequent resistances and immunities.


    I agree that the acid penalty should apply to all non-magical armor, not just natural armor. Relatively few creatures actually have natural armor, and those that don't suffer no penalty with this effect. If you have a roomful of heavy fighters, it would be more rounded to say it weakens their plate armor by a bit. How about it hits worn armor first, to a minimum AC bonus of 0, and then any leftover affects natural armor, to a minimum AC bonus of 0?
    Are you sure? Pretty much all monsters have natural armor. Especially at the level this ability comes online. Even humanoids will most likely have a few points from spells and the likes.

    Weakening plate armor makes sense, but how does the penalty disappear?

    Impale is good, but reach weapons provoke an attack of opportunity when used and they don't threaten squares next to them. How about, as an added effect of the ability, you don't provoke AoO and you treat all squares within your range as threatened while weilding a reach weapon?
    That is wrong. Only whips provoke, because they are treated as a weird kind of ranged weapon. With this ability, you cannot directly attack someone in a non-threatened square, but that foe will be struck if it stands between you and your target.

    Fleet of Foot is interesting, but its effects could be absorbed into the Freedom ability. As a replacement, how about a form of horizontal charging jump that lets you attack all enemies you threaten along the path as a full-round action? Movement still provokes AoO, but you may get more attacks than normally allotted. The distance traveled, and the number of targets, would increase as your Jump skill increases.
    Fleet of Foot is mostly unrelated with Freedom, and is a powerful effect on its own. It increases move AND fly speed by 10. It also removes armor speed penalty, most likely further improving it by 10. As a hidden effect, this is also a +8 to jump checks, due to increased speed.

    Your other ability seems more fit for a Barbarian than a Dragoon. I'm not a big fan of ubercharging.

    Dragon Rise. The image of it in my head is epic. The only thing I would change is make it an actual attack where the burst comes after you land and have it use up all your remaining Dragonheart uses that day to increase its radius by 5' and the DC by 2 per use expended. You leap into the air surrounded by a dragon-shaped shell of energy that explodes on contact.
    It kinda works the opposite of what is intended. The Dragoon uses its breath to boost his jump, akin to a rocket. I don't hate the Meteor Strike aspect, but it does not respect my source material.

    Just remembered: there is a feat in Races of the Wild (I think) called Dive Attack that does extra damage depending on how far you dropped. Maybe have dragoon jump be just the jump and attack, and give them Dive Attack as a bonus feat? I don't know if it continues to scale though, so feel free to ignore this at your convenience.
    If you can pinpoint me where the feat is exactly, I can give it a look.

    Otherwise, I request permission to copy this down and use it in my game
    I would be honored.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    You are right. However, Sky Vigil is an attack of opportunity, which is a sort of action on its own. On top of that, making it an immediate action is a severe nerf, since you cannot use it if you have already made an immediate. This also prevents you from taking swift actions during your next round, which is a severe nerf considering the Magic Item Compendium puts a heavy tax on swift actions.
    There's a reason for that. Actions taken during another person's turn are extremely powerful, even those with limited effect. That's why you need a feat to take more than one Attack of Opportunity a round. The flaw in the thinking here is that every action is, by definition, an action. The only actions that can be performed on another person's turn is an immediate action (AoO's are an immediate action that allows a standard action, but this is the exception).

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Half-dragons get at-will 6d8 breath weapons right off the bat. While it ends up being slightly weaker than the dragoon's, a dragoon's is a bit more limited.

    What else, 1d6 per 4 levels would make it completely useless. No monster at level 20 will even notice a 5d6 damage. That's around 15 damage on average, without counting the reflex save and frequent resistances and immunities.
    Maybe every three levels then, or reduce the die size to a d4, or every fourth level but increase the damage die. I just think a primarily melee character shouldn't be able to do a 10d6 line or cone ~7/day. Most people don't play enough encounters to hit the use cap.

    Half-dragons can't use their breath weapon at will, they can only use it once per day unless they take a whole slew of draconic feats.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Are you sure? Pretty much all monsters have natural armor. Especially at the level this ability comes online. Even humanoids will most likely have a few points from spells and the likes.

    Weakening plate armor makes sense, but how does the penalty disappear?
    There's the catch. A lot of MONSTERS have natural armor (magical beasts, dragons, giants). The problem becomes that you don't fight very many monsters, you are usually fighting humanoids. Humanoids with class levels. So your average encounter involves spellcasters (usually force effects for armor), melee characters (don't need too much natural, have enchanted armor) and skill characters (actually might have natural armor from magic to augment lack of armor). So unless you are deliberately avoiding non-monster confrontations, the armor penalty won't come into play very often.

    As for how the penalty disappears, let's just file that under "It's a magical effect, it has a duration."

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    That is wrong. Only whips provoke, because they are treated as a weird kind of ranged weapon. With this ability, you cannot directly attack someone in a non-threatened square, but that foe will be struck if it stands between you and your target.
    Any weapon that has reach, including whips, polearms, halberds, and longspears, provokes an attack of opportunity from adjacent enemies. Something to do with aiming farther away so not paying as much attention to what is next to you, I'd guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Fleet of Foot is mostly unrelated with Freedom, and is a powerful effect on its own. It increases move AND fly speed by 10. It also removes armor speed penalty, most likely further improving it by 10. As a hidden effect, this is also a +8 to jump checks, due to increased speed.
    I'll give you that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Your other ability seems more fit for a Barbarian than a Dragoon. I'm not a big fan of ubercharging.
    It's actually from Final Fantasy Tactics, but fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    It kinda works the opposite of what is intended. The Dragoon uses its breath to boost his jump, akin to a rocket. I don't hate the Meteor Strike aspect, but it does not respect my source material.
    Again, fair enough as it's your class. You'd have to be careful with it, though, as you will probably end up dinging your own party members. By the time your party members are at a safe distance, any enemy that the initial burst would inconvenience are most likely dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    If you can pinpoint me where the feat is exactly, I can give it a look.
    Nevermind. Feat is called Diving Charge and does bonus damage based on speed, not distance travelled.
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    There's a reason for that. Actions taken during another person's turn are extremely powerful, even those with limited effect. That's why you need a feat to take more than one Attack of Opportunity a round. The flaw in the thinking here is that every action is, by definition, an action. The only actions that can be performed on another person's turn is an immediate action (AoO's are an immediate action that allows a standard action, but this is the exception).
    I'm not entirely sure of your point here. Is my ability worded poorly? Or are you saying it should be an immediate action, instead of an attack of opportunity?

    Maybe every three levels then, or reduce the die size to a d4, or every fourth level but increase the damage die. I just think a primarily melee character shouldn't be able to do a 10d6 line or cone ~7/day. Most people don't play enough encounters to hit the use cap.

    Half-dragons can't use their breath weapon at will, they can only use it once per day unless they take a whole slew of draconic feats.
    Well you got me at the Half-dragon. I feel bad for them.

    But I will stand my ground and say that it is less powerful than it seems. It averages out at 30 damage, at level 20. Barely a scratch on even lowly minions, before accounting the reflex save and resistances.

    To further prove its balance, Swordsages have access to maneuvers that do the same exact damage (6d6 at level 11 for example), but instead of being a full blown class feature, it is a mere maneuver. What more, nobody takes it because it sucks

    There's the catch. A lot of MONSTERS have natural armor (magical beasts, dragons, giants). The problem becomes that you don't fight very many monsters, you are usually fighting humanoids. Humanoids with class levels. So your average encounter involves spellcasters (usually force effects for armor), melee characters (don't need too much natural, have enchanted armor) and skill characters (actually might have natural armor from magic to augment lack of armor). So unless you are deliberately avoiding non-monster confrontations, the armor penalty won't come into play very often.

    As for how the penalty disappears, let's just file that under "It's a magical effect, it has a duration."
    Alright then. It will get a modification comes next update.


    Any weapon that has reach, including whips, polearms, halberds, and longspears, provokes an attack of opportunity from adjacent enemies. Something to do with aiming farther away so not paying as much attention to what is next to you, I'd guess.
    That's the first time I hear of this rule, and I cannot confirm it anywhere else. Here is what I gathered from the d20SRD :

    Reach Weapons

    Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.


    You sure about this? Try to find the ruling.


    It's actually from Final Fantasy Tactics, but fair enough.
    Which ability exactly?

    Again, fair enough as it's your class. You'd have to be careful with it, though, as you will probably end up dinging your own party members. By the time your party members are at a safe distance, any enemy that the initial burst would inconvenience are most likely dead.
    I was imagining it as a combat opener. Before combat turns into the typical 3.5 unmoving slugfest, the dragoon can dash in with his superior speed, select a target, and Blast it while jumping. Since the ability requires only a standard action, you have the benefit of movement to not hurt your teammates.
    Last edited by Qc Storm; 2013-10-02 at 01:51 PM.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Reach weapons don't provoke AoO from adjacent targets when used, they merely (usually at least) fail to threaten those squares and therefore cannot make an AoO against targets in those squares. Nothing I can find ANYWHERE states otherwise (and I've been looking for 20 minutes), and plenty of material states clearly that melee attacks do NOT provoke, and this must include reach weapons since there is no mention otherwise. Whips are a NOTED exception to this rule, since they behave in many ways like a ranged weapon.

    The issue with actions for Sky Vigil are simple enough, you've stated it's a free action to use it, but free actions may not be taken outside of your own turn. I'd propose a stupidly simple solution to this one though, edit as follows:

    Sky Vigil (ex):

    A Dragoon’s watchful gaze never falters, and its eyes remain locked on the skies, even as he fights on the ground. Whenever an enemy above you performs an action that would normally provoke an attack of opportunity (such as moving or casting a spell), you may attempt a vertical jump to reach the enemy as a free action part of an attack of opportunity. If your jump check allows you to reach the target you make an attack as if the enemy had been within reach before the jump, if you fail to reach the target you may not make an attack. Either way you land back in the square you started from and this counts as one of your attacks of opportunity for the round. This action does not provoke attacks of opportunity regardless of success or failure.

    The enemy must be somewhere above your threatened area, though the vertical distance is not taken into account. Thus, a Dragoon with extended reach could possibly use Sky Vigil against enemies not directly above him.

    If your jump is sufficient to threaten the enemy, you may make a single melee attack against it before falling back to your original position. This action is considered an Attack of Opportunity, and does not provoke Attack of Opportunity.
    I think that covers it!

    The armour corroding effects for acid breath might be a little awkward to figure out, but a reasonably simple solution would be to apply a percentage of the damage directly to worn armour and use the sundering rules for armour effectiveness caused by damage. I imagine magical armour would get a save against this and any acid resistance derived from the armour would be applied to this damage also, but otherwise I see no issue with this workaround (bar the wording that is...could always try and help with that if it gets hairy...!)

    Since I'm here, I'll chuck in my 2 coppers worth on the breath weapon too...it isn't in any way overpowered, there are a multitude of effects, feats, spells and other sundry which allow an equal or greater amount of damage from a standard action, and this one is limited. Sure, many groups won't have enough fights in a day to use them all, but that said, I've only ever been in a handful of sessions where a full caster has actually used all his spell slots, and they were properly intense survival sessions which took HOURS AND HOURS to get through. I would be considerably less inclined to say this is fine if the ability allowed for metabreath feats, but it is already stipulated that it does not do so, and I can therefore see no real chicanery arising from Dragonheart.
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Many thanks mate. I realize now that Sky Vigil was confusing for nothing.

    New version coming soon, stay tuned.

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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    But I will stand my ground and say that it is less powerful than it seems. It averages out at 30 damage, at level 20. Barely a scratch on even lowly minions, before accounting the reflex save and resistances.

    To further prove its balance, Swordsages have access to maneuvers that do the same exact damage (6d6 at level 11 for example), but instead of being a full blown class feature, it is a mere maneuver. What more, nobody takes it because it sucks
    Ah, nevermind. I forgot my group is ridiculously skilled with d6's. A roll of 10d6 for my group frequently throws numbers anywhere from 35-50 easy, and no one ever has a good time with d20's so consistant saves are rare.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    That's the first time I hear of this rule, and I cannot confirm it anywhere else. Here is what I gathered from the d20SRD :

    Reach Weapons

    Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.


    You sure about this? Try to find the ruling.
    My bad. Most reach weapons can't hit adjacent targets, as per weapon descriptions, but only the whip provokes an attack of opportunity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    Which ability exactly?
    I was referring to the Dragoon's Horizontal Jump + abilities, going for distance rather than height. Given an area with a low ceiling, it might be more useful to jump directly forward in an expanded charge attack than relying on regular melee and breath weapon. Just my two-cents though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qc Storm View Post
    I was imagining it as a combat opener. Before combat turns into the typical 3.5 unmoving slugfest, the dragoon can dash in with his superior speed, select a target, and Blast it while jumping. Since the ability requires only a standard action, you have the benefit of movement to not hurt your teammates.
    It just seems more like an upper-mid-tier skill, maybe level 14 or 15, than something you get when you reach the pinacle of your training. A monk becomes a native outsider, a fighter basically becomes a walking arenal, the paladin gets to add +20 to his damage on a smite evil and is immune to basically everything, rogues do an extra +10d6 when they are flanking their target or even swap out some d6's for additional effects with a feat or two. Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics can reshape the fabric of reality with a Wish/Miracle spell and Druids can turn into magical beasts.

    The dragoon adding a short-range AoE to his jump? Not so impressive.
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    Default Re: The Dragoon - Peerless Jumper & Dragon Slayer

    I was referring to the Dragoon's Horizontal Jump + abilities, going for distance rather than height. Given an area with a low ceiling, it might be more useful to jump directly forward in an expanded charge attack than relying on regular melee and breath weapon. Just my two-cents though.
    I was referring to which FF tactics ability you were talking about. I do not recall any horizontal jump whatsoever.

    It just seems more like an upper-mid-tier skill, maybe level 14 or 15, than something you get when you reach the pinacle of your training. A monk becomes a native outsider, a fighter basically becomes a walking arenal, the paladin gets to add +20 to his damage on a smite evil and is immune to basically everything, rogues do an extra +10d6 when they are flanking their target or even swap out some d6's for additional effects with a feat or two. Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics can reshape the fabric of reality with a Wish/Miracle spell and Druids can turn into magical beasts.

    The dragoon adding a short-range AoE to his jump? Not so impressive.
    A free action Dragonheart breath that also brings the ire of Elemental Affliction and an enormous (albeit superfluous at this point) bonus to jump.

    Though whether this is a suitable capstone or not is up for debate.
    Last edited by Qc Storm; 2013-10-04 at 02:48 AM.

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