Worst class in the entire game.

[kiryoku]

From all the books and dragon mags.

what is hands down the most broken and useless class to use. I hear about the best this and best that all the time or why this class is bad but what is the worst all time class.

[Waker]

Truenamer as presented in ToM.

[Psyren]

Truenamer is still useful if it focuses on buffing and support. Your own DC (and those of your party) will generally always be in reach, at least the first few times/day.

I think Soulknife is worse - they get nothing that WBL won't give you. At least Truenamer can do unique things on its own.

[Divide by Zero]

Risen Martyr. You can't multiclass out, and when you get to level 10 or if you ever perform a single evil act you die. Permanently. And the abilities it gives you are weak, especially if you were a caster.

[dascarletm]

Aristocrat.

[kiryoku]

Okay how about we give the reasons each is the weakest ones in the game so I know where you are coming from.

Edit: and give reasons why each is broken and horrible or weak.

[Arcanist]

Wizard LOLNOPE!

[Opperhapsen]

Okay how about we give the reasons each is the weakest ones in the game so I know where you are coming from.

The Truenamer's abilities are weaker spells that he must succeed on a DC check that gets more difficult the higher level the party is.
At high levels it's pretty much impossible to use said spells.

The Aristocrat is an NPC class, I don't remember it being worse than commoner though.

The Soulknife is a fighter that gets a sword instead of feats.

[Eslin]

Paladin can be the worst possible class depending on the campaign.

[Xerxus]

Commoner because yeah.

[Xaragos]

My vote goes to Monk. After you get flurry....what else really matters?

[kiryoku]

I see everyone is all over the place on this one. Hmmmmmm maybe I should narrow down what I want. The most broken one is what I want. the commoner while weak is supposed to be like that its a NPC only class. PCs are not supposed to use it at all.

[Turalisj]

The Truenamer's abilities are weaker spells that he must succeed on a DC check that gets more difficult the higher level the party is.
At high levels it's pretty much impossible to use said spells.

The Aristocrat is an NPC class, I don't remember it being worse than commoner though.

The Soulknife is a fighter that gets a sword instead of feats.

The soulknife's sword isn't even as strong as what you could buy at your level

NPC classes really can't be considered, they aren't meant to be in the same balance as the PC classes.

Just google DnD Class Tiers and look for the ones at Tier 5.

[Psyren]

I see everyone is all over the place on this one. Hmmmmmm maybe I should narrow down what I want. The most broken one the commoner while weak is supposed to be like that its a NPC only class. PCs are not supposed to use it at all.

That doesn't make it "broken" though. It does exactly what it's meant to do.

Compare to a Soulknife, Monk or Truenamer, which are meant to be badass heroes... and perform very poorly.

[kiryoku]

I could do that but that would be just a list of worst not the single worst one. No ones really agreed on a single worst one yet.

I pointed out that but I must have done it poorly I will edit that.

[137beth]

Commoner. Truenamer, soulknife, and samurai are all back, but they are all strictly better than commoner.

Unless you meant PC class...

[JaronK]

Actually, those aren't strictly better than Commoners, who get special flaws (such as Chicken Infested) that can be quite useful.

No, the worst class ever is the Shining Blade of Heironieous. That PrC has absolutely no point. I actually did a challenge once: make any build that involves that class at all that's in any way better than the same build where you replaced the SBoH levels with levels of any other class in the build. The only build that could do it used just one level and made use of the Paladin's dead level.

Seriously, there's just no point to this class at all.

JaronK

[Worira]

Risen Martyr. You can't multiclass out, and when you get to level 10 or if you ever perform a single evil act you die. Permanently. And the abilities it gives you are weak, especially if you were a caster.

OH IT'S ON SON.

[Psyren]

Now I'm confused, are we doing base classes or PrCs?

And obviously if Commoner is being considered it is worse than all of them. Even with poorly-worded unlimited chickens.

[TypoNinja]

Risen Martyr. You can't multiclass out, and when you get to level 10 or if you ever perform a single evil act you die. Permanently. And the abilities it gives you are weak, especially if you were a caster.

We might have a winner.

The Truenamer might suck completely, and get worse at what it does the more it levels up, but its hard to top built in death.

No matter how much your class features suck, still being alive to use them is a pretty large consideration.

[Black Jester]

The worst basic class is a tie between cleric, wizard and druid. They may not be the least fun classes to play, but they are almost certainly the least fun classes to play with.

[kiryoku]

Okay to clear up the frenzy I mean base, PRC, pretty much any NON-NPC class out there. The most broken and crappy one. I have to say though we may have a winner with instant death at level 10 PRC and no way to level out into something else. That would be pretty pointless and rather sucky. concidering you would have that tenth level indefinitely and it would kill you on rez possibly depending on their wording.

[Golden Ladybug]

In the same vein as the Risen Matyr (which is kinda useful; who doesn't like Charisma increases and a free Rez?),

EDIT: I'd like to elaborate on the Risen Matyr, actually. To start with, it gives you a ton of Immunities; you get the Deathless type at 0th level, which gives everything undead get but flipped. They get +4 Charisma, and Charisma to AC really early on in the class, a permanent Magic Circle against Evil/Maybe Bastion of Good?/Holy Aura, free action Daylight (never be in the dark again!), Cold, Acid and Electricity Immunity and a bunch of useful SLAs.

And you don't actually die. Your "perfect, spiritual body is taken whole into the upper planes". As far as I can tell, there's absolutely nothing saying that you can't just come back You can't take any levels in anything else though

Back to your regularly scheduled programming:

I'd like to propose the Mountebank from the Dragon Magazine Compendium. Its certainly not the worst class ever, but it should bare mention.

Here's a quick summary of its abilities.

At 1st Level, it gets Beguiling Stare (a Standard Action, single target Save-or-Suck that makes the target lose their Dex bonus to AC and takes -2 to their Will Saves/-5 to Sense Motive. A Knowledge Check is required to realise anything went down at all), a choice of learning Abyssal or Infernal, Trapfinding and they sell their soul to Devilish/Demonic Masters; if you die, you must make a skill check to return to life, which gets easier as you level up.

Hmm...

At level 2 (not at level 1; level 2), she gets the first effect that works with her Beguiling Stare. Its sort of like Sneak Attack, but it progresses significantly slower, only effects targets that she hit with Beguiling Stare or Fiented against, can't be used with Ranged Attacks or to deal Non-Lethal Damage. It does, however, apply against everything; you cannot be immune to it. You get an extra dice for every four levels of Mountebank you have (to a maximum of +5d6 at level 18).

She then gets a number of abilities that are tied to her Charisma modifier (as most things are with the Mountebank), which she can use a number of times per day equal to half her Mountebank Level + Charisma Mod. A Medium Range 30ft Burst that Beguiles everything in it, if they fail their save. Alter Self as a Sorcerer of her Level. A Weaker Version of Undetectable Alignment that requires a Charisma Check opposed by a Sense Motive check (hey, class synergy!), but you get to choose what Alignment they see. Displacement, as a Sorcerer of her Level. Dimension Door! Confusion (That comes at level 12)! Teleport (but only herself, and a Familiar... if she has levels in a class that gives her a Familiar). Finally, as a Capstone, she gets Mislead (a 6th Level Spell)

All of these abilities come from the same pool of daily uses, of course.

Still, doesn't seem that bad. I mean, it could be worse? It can use Beguiling Stare forever and a day (but only once per day against an individual character, of course), and unresistable damage is pretty good. But then you realise you've got the Rogue's Chassis, you have to choose between making a Full Attack only after using a Standard Action to maybe set up whoever you're fighting for your extra damage. Or, you can feint, and get one attack per round, at a low attack bonus with meh damage.

You also can't multiclass freely, because that saving throw (and, in fact, the uses of all your abilites) scales off your class level. You're Charisma focused (again, all your abilities rely on it), so that needs to be a priority. But you are forced to be in Melee, so you also need good Con and good Dex to stay alive, so you can't prioritise it as much as you'd like. Your abilities come really staggered, and you've got six completely dead levels (and a few that might as well be).

Also, when you reach level 20, you become an NPC. Yeeeeah...

Your party can go on a quest to get the now-an-NPC-Mountebank back... but why?

I think I need to go to the Homebrew Design section...

[Xerxus]

The way a fighter was seemingly supposed to work at the very beginning is mindboggling. Here you have a mundane martial class that is apparently supposed to have at least 13 str, 12 dex, 13 int in order to run around with a sword and shield - possibly mounted on some poor 2 hd horse - putting his feats into power attack, combat expertise and some associated maneuver feats plus the mounted combat feats. And they actually expected a build like that to work?

Then again, the paladin might be worse in that respect (though basic mounted combat with a paladin is considerably better).

[thethird]

I think I need to go to the Homebrew Design section...

Please do. Flavor wise I always liked the class. Try to add some the totally terribad abilities of the mountebank in complete scoundrel too. Seriously its capstone is... almost as bad as the mountebank (base class) capstone.

[Arcanist]

Risen Martyr. You can't multiclass out, and when you get to level 10 or if you ever perform a single evil act you die. Permanently. And the abilities it gives you are weak, especially if you were a caster.

OH IT'S ON SON.

I cannot be the only one who laughed at this for a solid 5 minutes (or longer)

[SiuiS]

I cannot be the only one who laughed at this for a solid 5 minutes (or longer)

I would have but I got all my risen martyr jokes out about eight months ago, in an argument where everyone who didn't recognize the avatar thought I was calling him 'high and mighty' as an insult. Now I just chuckle and move on.


I've got one, that works mechanically but doesn't make sense, at first.
The Death Delver.

Death delivers are guys who die, come back and go "you know that was interesting, let's check that out." You get a new spell casting pool, some not-bad but not noteworthy bonuses, and eventually you get the ability to die 9 times, like a cat, before you kick it permanently.

There is also an international society of death delvers, who all gather and... Discuss... Death delving? On a class whose fluff is 'spooky guy who delves death and is spooky' and has no mechanics for it. They are a secretive society who try to keep people out until they earn their way in. I spent two years ranting about these guys, who have an international society with no goal and no mission, until it hit me.

They're a suicide cult. They build up people, right? They get everyone together to drink the cool-aid. And then they get up, take notes on the experience, and share them at an international seminar.

That is your class. That's what you sign up for when you become a death delver. Jumping off of a cliff, getting resurrected, and discussing it.

[tadkins]

No mention of True Necromancer yet? I'm surprised.

[Arcanist]

No mention of True Necromancer yet? I'm surprised.

I would agree with you if not for the fact that it still provided spellcasting and class features that function from start to finish. If anything, the True Necromancer is the best of a bad day when it comes to crappy classes.

[TypoNinja]

I would agree with you if not for the fact that it still provided spellcasting and class features that function from start to finish. If anything, the True Necromancer is the best of a bad day when it comes to crappy classes.

I think I remember some people mentioning PrC's that actually made you worse at their stated goal at one point, I can't think of actual classes at this point off the top of my head, but True Necro was actually one of them. Obviously the other classes would be contenders, but I'm sticking with the Martyr as the winner.