Am I overdoing dungeon planning? (Don't read this, Frathe.)

[Grindle]

I'm currently planning my first dungeon, and I think I may be overdoing the planning. When designing a wizard's tower, I looked at house plans and researched medieval castles, went around measuring household furniture to make sure it was to scale, calculated the square footage of the tower and compared it to actual buildings, and finally, drew a detailed, labeled map with furniture included. Unsurprisingly, designing a 2-story building took me hours. Am I overdoing things?

[Malrone]

Only so far as your time constraints (and ability to improvise) limit you. Making sure things have verisimilitude is by no means a bad thing, though you might do to be more efficient, haha. Since this is a dungeon, meant to be explored and challenged by the party, I don't see too much issue. Had this been some one-off cottage only slight relevant, than yes, I'd put your attention elsewhere.

[Slipperychicken]

As a player, I sure wouldn't complain about that much detail. It can help make the world feel like a living, breathing, dynamic entity when the GM remembers little things like that.


As far as "overdoing things" goes, as long as you enjoy it, do it. For example, my brother for one campaign would meticulously plan out the enemies' tactics and moves, since there wasn't a way for the absurdly-high Int BBEG to micromanage them directly. Often these plans would go 10 or more rounds into the fight, correctly guessing and taking into account PC actions long in advance. He once showed the group one of these plans after they called him out on it, and they were all supremely shocked. My brother takes countless hours of GM prep, even when he doesn't have a game lined up.

So ultimately, do however much prep you want to. Players tend to love it when their world has such fine details. Even when they just end up setting your meticulously-made building on fire and running away (and even then, you could recycle the building's plans for later. Not to mention you can just save things like furniture measurements to streamline future map-creation).

[icefractal]

I would say - not necessarily. If it's fun for you, and you still have enough time to prep, then go for it. If it's becoming a chore, then you can definitely scale it back.

And remember that if for some reason the players don't go inside the building, or only very briefly, then it's a building you can re-use later. Because it will probably happen at least once.

[valadil]

Learning how to prep is a big part of learning how to GM. As you write and run more games, you'll learn what things are valuable to prep and what things you can improvise.

For example, I see maps as a time sink. When I did my second game I spent 4 hours drawing a region map. Then I colored it in. It was gorgeous and I was proud of it. The players didn't look at it for more than a minute. I did not get good returns on my time investment.

I'm not a big fan of dungeon maps either but for different reasons. When I make a dungeon I usually have a good idea about what features it'll have. Then it's just a matter of linking up the rooms holding those features. Then it's a matter of meticulously redrawing the map as the players discover it one room at a time. I figured I could cut out the middle step without hurting my game too much. I was right. Now I draw one less copy of the map per dungeon prep and the players can't tell the difference.

This is not my way of saying to skip maps. What I'm saying is that between my particular group of players and my own peculiar GMing style, mapping doesn't buy me much game time. As you GM more you'll figure out what things you prep translate to hours of table time. If the players take note of the precise measurements of household objects and find ways to put that to use (maybe they're MacGuyver fans), your prep time will have created lots of game time and will have been worth the trouble.

I'd also like to point out that cheating is a valid strategy here. Just because your measurements are precise doesn't mean you're obliged to make them accurate. If the players like measurements, but they take too long to acquire, just make them up. Or to go back to your floor plans example, when I want a realistic floor plan I google it. I don't make my own interpretation, I just steal the image, slap a grid on it, and print.

[Jay R]

You are overdoing it if it's keeping you from scheduling a game, or interfering with real life, or not enjoying it.

You are not overdoing it if you are enjoying it and it's not interfering with anything.

[Also, you are overdoing it if you think that this is necessary.]

[Rhynn]

I'm currently planning my first dungeon, and I think I may be overdoing the planning. When designing a wizard's tower, I looked at house plans and researched medieval castles, went around measuring household furniture to make sure it was to scale, calculated the square footage of the tower and compared it to actual buildings, and finally, drew a detailed, labeled map with furniture included. Unsurprisingly, designing a 2-story building took me hours. Am I overdoing things?

Yes.

This is an example of a good dungeon map. That's all anyone should need, and it's far more than the bare necessity. Plus it looks good.

This is an example of an amazing dungeon map, with all kinds of detail (ladders!) and looking great.

Aim for the first, but don't sweat it when it's not quite as good.

Also, was that just the mapping, or did you write up descriptions, too? Those should be one paragraph, not very many sentences. Enough for you to improve from on the spot, and including nothing extraneous or obvious. For instance, if you have a library, write down "This is a library" - don't write down how many bookshelves there are, etc. When you're running it, you can add detail on the fly - there's a desk with a quill and inkwell and two books someone was copying, etc. Do write down actually interesting stuff, like what books are there. (Although a better approach is to make a random table of books that you can use anywhere, and note any specific, plot-related books in the room description.)

Basically, any unimportant detail (like most furniture) that you can come up with on the spot, either with or without player prompting ("Is there a ..."), you don't need to draw or write down beforehand.

[eviljav]

If you're enjoying putting this much detail into it, and your group appreciates it, you're doing it perfect.

If you stressing yourself out about getting it right, then you're putting too much into it.

[Calmar]

I'm currently planning my first dungeon, and I think I may be overdoing the planning. When designing a wizard's tower, I looked at house plans and researched medieval castles, went around measuring household furniture to make sure it was to scale, calculated the square footage of the tower and compared it to actual buildings, and finally, drew a detailed, labeled map with furniture included. Unsurprisingly, designing a 2-story building took me hours. Am I overdoing things?

So you're doing research on how (medieval) architecture actually works? That sets you apart you from most professional D&D cartographers. Your wizard's tower probably even has walls that occupy actual space instead of being just a line between two squares.

You might be investing too much effort in the furniture, because I've never seen players being very much interested in that, but other than that it's only too much if it impairs your enjoyment of your preparation work.

[Lorsa]

Jay R answers your question and Rhynn tells you what to do if you do feel you are overdoing it and wants to lessen the work. I was going to say something myself but after those two posts there really wasn't anything.

[Rhynn]

PS. FWI, I personally do prefer to have a degree of realism (basing my towers on actual towers, rather than round rooms on top of each other, using actual castle plans as models, etc.), but there's a cut-off where realism becomes too much work (in addition to great detail being unnecessary), and there's just some things you'll have to concede when it's fantasy (tall, tapering spires just look cool sometimes!).

At the end of the day, nobody but me is probably going to see my maps, so it's just a reference for me to describe things to the players. I'd love to create maps like the old MERP/Rolemaster supplements or HârnMaster have, but what's the point if I'm not going to be publishing them? This is probably true for the giant majority of DMs.

Also, my suggestions apply more broadly, too: in preparing anything for a game, never create detail you don't need, and never waste time on obvious things that you can just add in during play with zero effort; like the unremarkable contents of a pantry, barrel by barrel... plenty of published material does that, leading one to think they were paid by the page, or at least had a minimum number of pages to write.

But, as a corollary, make notes when you come up with things during play. This is how much of all that huge detail in some settings (Forgotten Realms, etc.) came about - inventing and describing bit by bit, often at the table, then writing it down.

[Grindle]

Your wizard's tower probably even has walls that occupy actual space instead of being just a line between two squares.

Yep, it does. I noticed that problem on professional maps.

Also, was that just the mapping, or did you write up descriptions, too?

That was just the mapping. I'm very good at coming up with descriptions on the fly, and I wasn't planning on writing out them out beforehand.

Edit:
For anyone who's curious about what the map looks like, here it is:
(Warning: large image and bad scan)

Spoiler

Show

[Jay R]

I've spent an hour or two going through the index of the Silmarillion to research elven names.

I've spent hours researching the seven planets, their mystical properties, and their connections to the seven metals, to produce an adventure in which the planets mattered.

While planning the make-up of my current characters army, I wound up researching Persian cataphracts, Roman legions, Swiss pikes, etc.

For a Flashing Blades game set in the Caribbean, I looked into the start of the buccaneers (as cow-hunters on the back side of Cuba) and the beginning of the British settlements on Barbados.

I knew while doing it that nobody but me would ever care about that level of detail and accuracy. But I did care, and enjoyed it, and chose to get it right.

Have fun with your research and do as much as you want.

[Rhynn]

That doesn't actually look too work-intensive to create to me... I suppose the furniture research is where you mostly went overboard. I'd suggest just half-assing that part in the future. General research into, say, medieval architecture isn't really time spent on just the one map, because you'll learn stuff you'll use later.

Also, try out Dungeonographer. I love it, even if it is missing one-way secret doors.

[Lorsa]

plenty of published material does that, leading one to think they were paid by the page, or at least had a minimum number of pages to write.

That is actually the case. At least for those that write for the major companies (as opposed to independant publishing). It is also the reason why much course literature tend to get a bit wordy.

[Jay R]

I'm currently planning my first dungeon, and I think I may be overdoing the planning. When designing a wizard's tower, I looked at house plans and researched medieval castles, went around measuring household furniture to make sure it was to scale, calculated the square footage of the tower and compared it to actual buildings, and finally, drew a detailed, labeled map with furniture included. Unsurprisingly, designing a 2-story building took me hours. Am I overdoing things?

The bold words are the only indication of a problem, and we've been ignoring them. Why do you think you're overdoing it?

[Amnestic]

I'd be concerned about doing that sort of planning for everything (or even most things). DM Burnout is a very real thing and over-planning something is exactly the sort of thing which contributes to DM Burnout.

By all means, go nuts with research - it's both useful for the game and it can be fun to learn new stuff. Just bear in mind that at some point you might overextend yourself and it'll end up biting you in the bum.

As long as you keep that in mind though, you should be fine. Have fun with it!