OOTS #885 Discussion Thread

[HUMVEE Driver]

Has one been started yet?

Anyone think X and RC are illusions or otherwise fakes? Perhaps by the LG?

Things have been full of surprises lately...

The Voice of Mod: Hereby made Official.

[DaggerPen]

Yeah, I've been waiting for one, myself. Not 100% sure if you're allowed to start your own, but I can't find anything saying either way for now, so I'm going to assume that we're in the clear.

My first guess was that they were illusions, too. This was based primarily off of Xykon lacking his amulet - looking back, however, he's often not wearing it, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

If they aren't illusions, though, the Order is in deep ****. Hopefully the MitD will defect or something here.

[HUMVEE Driver]

*I checked the rules too; there's nothing against it. But I'm not actually starting the thread; I'm asking why it's missing. Also, I miss the discussions! If/once the real one pops up I'd have no problem with a moderator deleting this thread and/or moving these comments to the real one.

[talkamancer]

Welcome back giant. And with an opening door we bring the arc to the beginning of it's end.

[SmaugTheYounger]

Yeah, I've been waiting for one, myself. Not 100% sure if you're allowed to start your own, but I can't find anything saying either way for now, so I'm going to assume that we're in the clear.

My first guess was that they were illusions, too. This was based primarily off of Xykon lacking his amulet - looking back, however, he's often not wearing it, so that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

If they aren't illusions, though, the Order is in deep ****. Hopefully the MitD will defect or something here.

Xcykon hid his phylactery in his fortress-tomb-thingy in #833 - at least he thought he did. So yes, it really looks like the Order is in deep ****. If it were'nt for the fourth gate, it would look end gamey to me.

[Francis Davey]

Has one been started yet?

I couldn't see one. I wanted to say "wow". Xycon was really unexpected. Great too, but unexpected.

[Heksefatter]

Maybe that's what the runes are doing? Sort of "reading" people, to know what would throw them off-balance? Xykon popping up at the gate would surely do that trick.

[DaggerPen]

*I checked the rules too; there's nothing against it. But I'm not actually starting the thread; I'm asking why it's missing. Also, I miss the discussions! If/once the real one pops up I'd have no problem with a moderator deleting this thread and/or moving these comments to the real one.

That's fair enough. I am kind of surprised we don't have one yet - perhaps Giant just didn't get the chance to start one? Regardless, I say we discuss the update here for now, and it'll probably be merged into the official one later.

EDIT TO ADD:

Maybe that's what the runes are doing? Sort of "reading" people, to know what would throw them off-balance? Xykon popping up at the gate would surely do that trick.

Ooh, good suggestion! I thought that Xykon might be an illusion, but it hadn't occurred to me that it might be an effect of the runes.

Xcykon hid his phylactery in his fortress-tomb-thingy in #833 - at least he thought he did. So yes, it really looks like the Order is in deep ****. If it were'nt for the fourth gate, it would look end gamey to me.

I'm not talking about the phylactery, but about Xykon's - whatever that amulet thing he wears sometimes is. I don't know what it actually does for him. I presume it's a magic item of some sort? Anyway, Redcloak was the one who wore the phylactery, not Xykon himself.

[Francis Davey]

Ooh, good suggestion! I thought that Xykon might be an illusion, but it hadn't occurred to me that it might be an effect of the runes.

My brain is slow early in the morning. It just hadn't occurred to me that Xykon might be an illusion (and the runes of course having some connection to it). That would make things slightly less dire.

[KillingAScarab]

Maybe that's what the runes are doing? Sort of "reading" people, to know what would throw them off-balance? Xykon popping up at the gate would surely do that trick.

On the one hand, it doesn't seem like Girard's bag to read people's minds. On the other hand, he was charged with protecting the entire world. Still, why wouldn't the message in the desert have used such a technique?

[HUMVEE Driver]

Maybe that's what the runes are doing? Sort of "reading" people, to know what would throw them off-balance? Xykon popping up at the gate would surely do that trick.

+2

I hadn't thought of that!

[DaggerPen]

Okay, I swear I remembered seeing Xykon with some type of amulet at some point in the story, but if so, he must not have worn it for very long, because I cannot for the life of me find it. So that's definitely not an indication of whether he's an illusion or not.

[B. Dandelion]

O board have I missed thee! And great comic, that definitely answers the "how could things get any worse" question.

I figured the are-they-illusions-or-not discussion would be the main topic. If Xykon and Redcloak are, say, based on the fears of the Order conjured up by the mysterious "there is no secret message" runes, there might be subtle details wrong about them due to circumstances the Order doesn't know about -- like Redcloak's missing eye, which we could note is jusssst out of panel.

Although I sort of lean towards them being the real deal. Yeah, they're screwed, but maybe Xykon won't start blasting right away and forcecage them or something. In a way, they're better off without Vaarsuvius, since I suspect Xykon remembers her better than he does Roy...

[Heksefatter]

On the one hand, it doesn't seem like Girard's bag to read people's minds. On the other hand, he was charged with protecting the entire world. Still, why wouldn't the message in the desert have used such a technique?

A possibility is that it is sort of an "artifact." A last line of defense. Even Girard and his clan can't just make this. It is something that has taken years. It would make some sense to have defenses that kick in, even if the the entire Draketooth clans is taken out.

[Conte_Vincero]

I'm thinking illusion, as if he teleported straight inside the pyramid, then surely he'd teleport to the gate room, rather than somewhere random inside, and that the Illusion is working similar to a Harry Potter Boggart that assumes the form of the viewer's worst fear.

[skaddix]

Well hopefully they are fake or the order is in trouble

[thatSeniorGuy]

Okay, I swear I remembered seeing Xykon with some type of amulet at some point in the story, but if so, he must not have worn it for very long, because I cannot for the life of me find it. So that's definitely not an indication of whether he's an illusion or not.

You're probably thinking of Dorukan's headband which Xykon pilched; I believe the only time Xykon wore it is when he cast Cloister on Azure City.

Or you could be referring to the amulets that Recloak gave to Xykon's duplicates in the attack on Azure city.

[factotum]

It actually never occurred to me this might be an illusion, but that would certainly explain why Redcloak is enough off panel that we can't see his other eye--him still possessing that would tip us off it's an illusion immediately.

If he has the patch on in #886? The Order are *so* screwed...

(As for the thread not being up, I suspect the forum elves got everything working at a time when Rich is either busy or asleep--he hasn't announced the site being back up on Twitter either, which kind of suggests he isn't available right now for some reason).

[DaggerPen]

You're probably thinking of Dorukan's headband which Xykon pilched; I believe the only time Xykon wore it is when he cast Cloister on Azure City.

Or you could be referring to the amulets that Recloak gave to Xykon's duplicates in the attack on Azure city.

It's not the amulets the fake Xykons had, but I swear I remember a discussion thread for that talking about how Xykon's amulet looked different vs. that he had an amulet when he didn't usually?

I don't know. I have no idea where I got this from. Maybe I'm thinking of some discussion about the phylactery and confused it with the fake Xykons' amulets. *shakes head*

Anyway, point is, whatever I'm remembering, I am definitely not remembering correctly.

Xykon does currently look right, but it's hard to say about Redcloak. I looked when this comic first came out and couldn't see if he had his patch or not. So if he comes into view with both eyes, he's definitely an illusion. If he comes into view and only has the one eye, I suppose it could still be an illusion, but it's unlikely.

Also, bonus points if the Sending about Xykon being on the way reaches them on the next page.

[SmaugTheYounger]

Okay, I swear I remembered seeing Xykon with some type of amulet at some point in the story, but if so, he must not have worn it for very long, because I cannot for the life of me find it. So that's definitely not an indication of whether he's an illusion or not.

You are right, Xykon does'nt wear his phylactery. For the amulet, I think Xykon's three decoys in the battle of Azure City wore an amulett, so Redcloak could better differentiate between them.

[edit] ninjad.

[thatSeniorGuy]

Also, bonus points if the Sending about Xykon being on the way reaches them on the next page.

I want this to happen so much

[5tephen]

I remember ages ago when Rich wouldn't always be able to post the new comic thread straight away he didn't mind someone else starting it. He said so.

And Illusion? Nah: end of this plot arc - that's definitely the REAL Xykon et al. So predictions: it looks like Nale will arrive with his posse just in time to get in the way of Xykon killing them all. BIG Broo-ha-ha. Then V will turn up and hustle the Order all out of there.

[DaggerPen]

I remember ages ago when Rich wouldn't always be able to post the new comic thread straight away he didn't mind someone else starting it. He said so.

And Illusion? Nah: end of this plot arc - that's definitely the REAL Xykon et al. So predictions: it looks like Nale will arrive with his posse just in time to get in the way of Xykon killing them all. BIG Broo-ha-ha. Then V will turn up and hustle the Order all out of there.

I dunno. While we're definitely nearing the climax of this arc, I could also see this being a fakeout, then the Linear Guild arriving, and then Xykon arriving into the huge mess.

Or, you know, he could just walk straight through a door into the Order and terrify the living hell out of us all. Hard to say.

If that is the real Xykon, though, I think we might be looking at an MitD defection. The main catch with that is that a MitD reveal feels more like something for the final gate.

[Diadem]

I was already starting to wonder when we'd see Xykon again.

My prediction: The next few strips will be a flashback to what Xykon has been doing in the meantime, perhaps even some cutscenes to other characters, leaving this current tension to build up for a while.

[Bulldog Psion]

I have a feeling it's really Xykon, for several different reasons.

1. He was last seen heading in this direction, so he's got to get here sometime.
2. Why would the theorized "illusion runes" conjure an illusion of Redcloak? The Order barely knows him as a briefly-seen background mook. Most of the people who know how dangerous he really is are dead.
3. This book has to wrap up sometime. Introducing another tangent of illusions might make it too long, since Xykon STILL has to show up.

[Mike Havran]

I have a feeling it's really Xykon, for several different reasons.

1. He was last seen heading in this direction, so he's got to get here sometime.
2. Why would the theorized "illusion runes" conjure an illusion of Redcloak? The Order barely knows him as a briefly-seen background mook. Most of the people who know how dangerous he really is are dead.
3. This book has to wrap up sometime. Introducing another tangent of illusions might make it too long, since Xykon STILL has to show up.

I do hope this is not Xykon, because I don't see then how the Order would both survive and retain any credibility as heroes. Mass Hold Person. Implosion.

1. True, but I do expect Eugene to appear with the warning
2. Maybe that's why we see only part of him and it might be revealed he's not "accurate"? Anyway, both Haley and Belkar knew, or at least had a good idea about his importance. With Elan, they saw him riding on that big monster elephant in the AC anyway. They know he's Xykon's lieutenant.

On the other hand, my arguments why this is not Xykon

1. If Xykon was able to teleport directly to the Gate according to the coordinates, why is he approaching the Order from the other side, leading from the dungeon? And if he wasn't able, how come he's in the pyramid?

2. It would suck terribly for the Order

You guys are so lame you can't handle one batch of wannabe villains and you get crippled instead? Can't we get stronger heroes, Red-eye? No? Shuck. Okay, you little kids wait here and let papa Xykon clean the mess for ya.

[Doctor Foreman]

Well hopefully they are fake or the order is in trouble

I like how the Order is so thoroughly screwed right now that we've just gotten used to the background level of FUBARitude and just say "they're in trouble" when Xykon shows up. Putting things in perspective, they were "in trouble" like sixty strips ago.

[redbeard]

Ok, I hadn't thought of it being an illusion, but now that I have, one thing stands out:


Xykon actually remembering Roy would only happen in Roy's mind.

That and Red Cloak being JUST off scene really tips the scales for me that yes, this is an illusion of what Roy fears most (also a trope, so three reasons.)

[ti'esar]

I kind of hope this is the real Xykon, just because you know some nit is going to come crawling out of the woodwork to call it a "deus ex machina" if it's an illusion. Although I suspect the same thing would happen with any of the possible ways for the Order to get out of this if it is the real thing.

But in all seriousness, I can't decide. I had thought the lack of any magical effects ruled out an illusion - or at least one being created by those runes - but now I think that maybe blocking such an effect from sight could be part of any illusion.

On the other hand, this is already likely to be the longest book in OOTS, and I can't see what a fakeout really brings to it besides one cliffhanger or two.

[_Jarlaxle_]

Well last time Xykon didn't want to kill Roy but set him down on the ground so they could have an interesting fight later when Roy has much more levels.

So maybe he tries to help them again

"The cleric of your little adventuring party got vampirized? No problem reddie here will destroy and raise him if we see him on our way and then send him to you so you can go on adventuring. See ya"