(PF) Pounce as a feat

[Sylthia]

The pounce ability is common among summoned monsters. It basically lets you do a full-round attack as part of a charge. Oddly, no such ability is available to characters as a feat or otherwise (at least in the core, unless I've overlooked something). It seems odd to let summoned monsters be better at combat than PCs, so I'm thinking of letting my players get it as a feat if they want.

[Vadskye]

Pounce is not available to PCs because it is incredibly powerful. Summoned monsters have specific attack sequences, and giving them pounce is less of a concern. Not every ability should be available to PCs.

[Sylthia]

Pounce still needs a charge to work, and spellcasters still stand head and shoulders above martial classes. I could see having some pre-reqs for the feat, but I think it should be available.

[urkthegurk]

I agree! This is the very first thing that should be added to make Fighters viable in DnD.

[Hanuman]

Pounce still needs a charge to work, and spellcasters still stand head and shoulders above martial classes. I could see having some pre-reqs for the feat, but I think it should be available.

Pounce [Feat]
Requires: Spring Attack or Something
You can pounce as if using the (Ex), but like, as a feat instead.

There you go.

Still absurdly broken, and you aren't going to fix it unless you change it's core mechanic.

Try looking at Evolutionist by Draken or the book of 9 sword's tiger claw and similar flavor texts, get an idea of balance reference and then create a "pounce" that doesn't involve dealing double the DPS than your beatstick should be doing.

[Sylthia]

I think fixing pounce in general would help balance, rather than just denying it to PCs. The Tiger that the level 7 druid summoned should be doing more damage than the level 7 fighter and getting a free grapple on top of the druid getting all her normal actions after the summoning round.

The pouncing Tiger in the Paizo website deals 1d8+2d6+18+3 free chances at starting a grapple. That number goes to 1d8+2d6+24 if you took augment summoning.

A charging level 7 fighter with a +2 greatsword and 18 Str power attacking for -4 attack bonus deals 2d6+14 damage. Most likely higher depending on feat selection, but it shouldn't be on par with the tiger, it should be well above.

Dealing massive damage against single targets is where martial units should excel, not be an inferior option.

[Tanuki Tales]

Pounce is not available to PCs because it is incredibly powerful. Summoned monsters have specific attack sequences, and giving them pounce is less of a concern. Not every ability should be available to PCs.

How exactly is Pounce too much? I'd say more, but since you didn't really give anything to analyze concerning what you consider as being not "incredibly powerful" and how that differs between caster and mundane, there's nothing I can say that isn't a baseless assumption or a fallacious statement.

[Hanuman]

Pounce: Not OP
Tigers: Not OP
Summoning Tigers: ????
Druids: Tier1
Pounce As Feat: OP

[Jane_Smith]

Actually, they DID allow pounce.

In the supplement they released called Ultimate Combat you can take the Beast Totem rage powers. First one gives you claw attacks, second one gives you something like scent, the third gives you pounce while raging. In fact, they added a great deal of feats and powers that made barbarians far, far more viable. And before someone asks: No, you do not have to use only the claws during a pounce, the claws you do not need use at all.

[Sylthia]

Actually, they DID allow pounce.

In the supplement they released called Ultimate Combat you can take the Beast Totem rage powers. First one gives you claw attacks, second one gives you something like scent, the third gives you pounce while raging. In fact, they added a great deal of feats and powers that made barbarians far, far more viable. And before someone asks: No, you do not have to use only the claws during a pounce, the claws you do not need use at all.

Thanks, I figured if I looked through enough supplemental material, I'd find something like that. I'm in the process of moving and most of my books are boxed up, but it's nice to know it's there.

[Elricaltovilla]

I asked about ways to get pounce in pathfinder in a thread a while back. here's the link:

LINK

And pounce is available as a racial feat for kitsune. And Catfolk.

Most of the pounce abilities come online around 10th level. So make a pounce feat with BAB +11 as a prerequisite and it's not particularly overpowered.

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Eh... I'm all for giving the Martial classes more toys, but I don't think options like this (choosing the one thing they're already good at - raw damage output - and pumping it further) will really help anything. It feels like it just pushes fighters into even more of a niche.

[GunbladeKnight]

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion gets pounce at 1st level.

Lion's Charge, as of Spell Compendium, is a personal spell for the ranger (2nd level) and druid (3rd level) that gives them pounce as a swift action.

[Elricaltovilla]

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion gets pounce at 1st level.

Lion's Charge, as of Spell Compendium, is a personal spell for the ranger (2nd level) and druid (3rd level) that gives them pounce as a swift action.

I think this is supposed to be Pathfinder specific, but you make a good point.

Frankly I never thought pounce was overpowered, I consider it practically necessary for any decent melee character in Pathfinder. It's just impractical to stand in one spot and expect the enemy to come to you.

[Sylthia]

I'm not one who think martial classes should be right on par with spellcasters, but I think they should at least be the kings of single-target damage. In many of the games I've played, martial classes are lucky if half the rounds they get a full-round attack. It doesn't quite seem fair, when Mr. Wizard gets to bolt around the battle-field without sacrificing any of his spell-casting capabilities.

[Jane_Smith]

Its not like pounce gives them MORE damage, it does not actually give any form of damage bonus, all it does is help martial characters get better action economy by allowing them to mix a charge + full attack, which drastically improves their presence on the battlefield. I am perfectly fine with it being a feat.

[Hanuman]

Its not like pounce gives them MORE damage, it does not actually give any form of damage bonus, all it does is help martial characters get better action economy by allowing them to mix a charge + full attack, which drastically improves their presence on the battlefield. I am perfectly fine with it being a feat.

Depends if we are talking lances or any other ability which actually synergizes with charging, including full-attack powergaming builds that are already overpowered without a free gapcloser which adds a +2 for the first trip, scorpion grasp, or natural weapon flailer.