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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    I really like the flavor of the Divine Crusader class, except that it's pretty bad. So here's my attempt at a fix. Goal was to make it less punishing for martial classes entering and to change the spellcasting to be a bit more flexible/powerful. Hopefully it's a T+0 PrC now instead of a T+2 PrC.

    (I have not included any text or tables out of CD to avoid copywrite infringement)

    Divine Crusader
    Fix by ironwizard

    Hit Die: d10

    Requirements:
    <As in the book>

    Skills:
    <As in the book>

    The Divine Crusader (Fix)
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Aura, Divine Judgement|0|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—
    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|1st Domain Power|1|0|—|—|—|—|—|—|—
    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Energy Resistance 5|2|1|0|—|—|—|—|—|—
    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|2nd Domain Power|2|2|1|1|—|—|—|—|—
    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Energy Resistance 10|3|2|2|1|0|—|—|—|—
    6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|3rd Domain Power|3|3|2|2|1|0|—|—|—
    7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Energy Resistance 15|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|—|—
    8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|4th Domain Power|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|—
    9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Energy Resistance 20|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0
    10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Perfect Self, 5th Domain Power|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1[/table]

    Caster Level: A Divine Crusader's caster level is equal to one and a half times her class level (round up). (At first level, a Divine Crusader only has a caster level is she has sufficient CHA to have bonus spells). (Progression: 2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15)

    Class Features:
    <As book except where noted here>
    Spellcasting: A Divine Crusader's spell list is comprised of the spells listed in her deity's domains (up to 5 domains for deities with more than 5 domains.) If a Divine Crusader's deity has fewer than 5 domains, select additional domains to make up the difference (subject to DM's approval, they should mesh and make sense flavor wise). A Divine Crusader casts spells spontaneously off of this list, using CHA as her casting stat.
    Domains: In addition, the Divine Crusader selects one of her deity's domains to be her primary domain. For this domain (and this domain only), she gains the granted power in addition to the spell list. Furthermore, she casts spells from her primary domain at +1 caster level. At the levels listed, she may select and additional domain from her list to become a “primary” domain. Every time she gets an additional “primary Domain,” she adds +1 to her caster level with a previously acquired domain. For example, a 5th level Divine Crusader has 3 “primary” domains, which could be at caster levels +3, +1,+1, or +2, +2, +1. If she had to select extra domains to get to 5, a divine crusader must choose her deity's actual domains first to become primary domains.
    Perfect Self: Change the to 10/Magic AND 1 opposing component of the deity's alignment. So a Divine Crusader of a LG deity has DR 10 overcome by either Magic and Chaos or Magic and Evil.
    Divine Judgement (Su): When making a melee attack, if the target's alignment opposes your deity's alignment on at least one axis, you may add half your Divine Crusader level to the attack roll as a Sacred Bonus (if your deity is good or neutral) or a Profane Bonus (if your deity is evil), and your whole Divine Crusader level to the damage roll, also as a sacred or profane bonus. If the target opposes your deity's alignment on both axis, instead add your whole Divine Crusader level to the attack roll, and twice your DC level to the damage roll. Divine Judgement stacks with the bonuses provided by Smite.
    Energy Resistance (Ex) - A divine crusader gains resistance to two energy types of his choice from the following list: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. If he has an elemental domain, he must choose to resist energy as appropriate to that domain: Air (electricity), Earth (acid), Fire (fire), Water (cold). The amount of resistance he gains to these energy types is given on the table.

    Multiclassing note: Paladins may multiclass freely with Divine Crusader
    Divine Code: A Divine Crusader who commits an act that opposes his deity's precepts or whose alignment changes to no longer match his deity's immediately looses all Divine Crusader Su abilities and spells until he Atones (see spell) if the acts or change was involuntary. If he changes alignment willingly or knowingly commits a forbidden action, he looses all Su abilities and spells irrevocably and may no longer continue advancing as a Divine Crusader. If he somehow manages to find his way into another deity's good graces (and meets the alignment restriction), he may regain his abilities, though now through his new deity (including a new spell list and domain power).

    Ok, go nuts.

    EDIT: Added class table with updates and changes suggested below. (5/3/13)
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-05-03 at 03:15 PM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Why do they need more spell casting? Can you provide us a link to the original class?
    full bab, and 9th lvl spells in 10 lvls?
    Last edited by Quiddle; 2013-05-02 at 09:05 AM.
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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quiddle, it's in Complete Divine.

    I have to say, I really don't much like it. Giving 5 domains is a massive boost to the class. As written, the class can't be completed before level 18, but that's still a large boost. I'd maybe consider going the bonus domain route, adding an extra domain or two on some of the dead levels, but 5 at 1st level is nasty. There's not much reason to not dip it and move on to another casting class to give you full progression and more fun stuff.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    My thinking is the class is designed for martial classes, with that +7 BaB requirement, but with d8 Hit Die and 3/4 BaB, it's a real punishment for a martial class. So up to Full BaB and d10 Hit Die. As for the spellcasting, base class spellcasting is absolutely worthless, so I've improved it a bit. I may have gone overboard by improving both, which is why I'm posting it here for feedback. My goal was to make the class an attractive option to make a Paladin-esqe character while bypassing the Paladin class itself. Or for Paladins of different aligned deities. Or as an option for spell-less Paladins, or ones who want better casting.

    No link because base DC isn't SRD, but it's in Complete Divine, and on D&D tools as well.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Quiddle, it's in Complete Divine.

    I have to say, I really don't much like it. Giving 5 domains is a massive boost to the class. As written, the class can't be completed before level 18, but that's still a large boost. I'd maybe consider going the bonus domain route, adding an extra domain or two on some of the dead levels, but 5 at 1st level is nasty. There's not much reason to not dip it and move on to another casting class to give you full progression and more fun stuff.
    You get the spells up front, if you want the powers, you need to stick around a bit, 9 levels for all 5.

    But I was worried that that was a bit too much, I can tone that down a bit.

    Edit: Sorry for double post, Rizban's reply came in while I was replying to Quiddle.
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-05-02 at 09:33 AM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    I wouldn't raise the BAB if you're going to boost the casting that much.

    Could you maybe make a table showing what your version of the class will look like?
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Custom
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|1st Domain Power, Aura|0|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Electricity Resistance 5|1|0|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Weapon Specialization, 2nd Domain Power|2|1|0|—|—|—|—|—|—

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Acid Resistance 5|2|2|1|1|—|—|—|—|—

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Greater Weapon Focus, 3rd Domain Power|3|2|2|1|0|—|—|—|—

    6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Electricity and Acid Resistance 10|3|3|2|2|1|0|—|—|—

    7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Greater Weapon Specialization, 4th Domain Power|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|—|—

    8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Electricity and Acid Resistance 15|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|—

    9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|5th Domain Power|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0

    10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Perfect Self, Electricity and Acid Resistance 20|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1

    [/table]

    As to the BaB, I'd rather reduce the casting than reduce the BaB. This is still a class for martials in my mind

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    The Divine Crusader (Fix)
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
    1st|+1|+2|+0|+2|Aura|0|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—
    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+3|Domain Power|1|0|—|—|—|—|—|—|—
    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+3|Electricity and Acid Resistance 5|2|1|0|—|—|—|—|—|—
    4th|+4|+4|+1|+4|Weapon Specialization|2|2|1|1|—|—|—|—|—
    5th|+5|+4|+1|+4|Electricity and Acid Resistance 10|3|2|2|1|0|—|—|—|—
    6th|+6|+5|+2|+5|Greater Weapon Focus|3|3|2|2|1|0|—|—|—
    7th|+7|+5|+2|+5|Electricity and Acid Resistance 15|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|—|—
    8th|+8|+6|+2|+6|Greater Weapon Specialization|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0|—
    9th|+9|+6|+3|+6|Electricity and Acid Resistance 20|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1|0
    10th|+10|+7|+3|+7|Perfect Self|3|3|3|3|3|3|2|2|1[/table]

    Updated: Reduced to 1 domain power at level 2. (Spell list remains unchanged). Re-ordered the remaining class features to ensure each level gets something. Hit Die remains d10.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    For a combat class, the abilities still aren't particularly interesting. This is still heavily a casting focused class. Small bonuses to attack and damage aren't really that enticing. The spell casting is still strong though, and it's really nice. I would use this class, but i wouldn't care about the domain powers. I might take second level on this class, if there was a domain that i really wanted the power from. Still, I'd probably just dip one level for the casting and go for another PrC with more interesting abilities, such as Sanctified Mind or Knight of the Raven.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Do you have any suggestions then? I can't think of anything that wouldn't drastically change the class into something else entirely. I'm really only trying to make the class worth considering, rather than a deathtrap.

    (Yeah, I know the weapon Specialization Tree isn't interesting at all, but at least his way it'll see play :) )

    (For what little it matters, I forgot to include the caveat that Paladins may multiclass freely into Divine Crusader. But probably doesn't matter, because that would imply going back to Paladin)

    And thanks for all the feedback.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    I think that it's not a bad class as written. I was just commenting on the fact that it's not a melee focused class. It's a spellcasting class. There's nothing wrong with that, except that you said you wanted it to be melee focused.

    My suggestion, if you want to make it more combat focused, is still to reduce what you've given it for spellcasting. Giving all of its casting at 1st level is inviting a player to dip.

    I would suggest:
    • Drop the "domain power" ability and just grant the powers with the domains.
    • Gain one domain at 1st, a second at 2nd, third at 5th, fourth at 8th, and fifth at 10th.
    • Grant smite 1/day at 1st, stacking with any existing smite ability. Gives an incentive to paladins going in and a bit of a boost to non-pallys. Increase smites/day at 5th and 9th.


    These changes leave your class special looking like this:{table=head]Level|Special
    1|Aura, 1st domain, Smite 1/day
    2|2nd domain
    3|Electricity and Acid Resistance 5
    4|Weapon Specialization
    5|Electricity and Acid Resistance 10, 3rd domain, Smite 2/day
    6|Greater Weapon Focus
    7|Electricity and Acid Resistance 15
    8|Greater Weapon Specialization, 4th domain
    9|Electricity and Acid Resistance 20, Smite 3/day
    10|Perfect Self, 5th domain[/table]

    My other suggestion would be to drop Electricity and Acid resistance in favor of an ability named Energy Resistance. Progression would be 3rd - Energy Resistance 5, 6th - Energy Resistance 10, 9th - Energy Resistance 15.
    Energy Resistance (Ex) - A divine crusader gains resistance to two energy types of his choice from the following list: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. If he has an elemental domain, he must choose to resist energy as appropriate to that domain: Air (electricity), Earth (acid), Fire (fire), Water (cold). The amount of resistance he gains to these energy types is given on the table.

    If you make that change, I would also dump Greater Weapon Specialization down 1 level to 7th. This gives you the following specials.
    {table=head]Level | Special
    1 | Aura, 1st domain, smite 1/day
    2 | 2nd domain
    3 | Energy resistance 5
    4 | Weapon Specialization
    5 | 3rd domain, smite 2/day
    6 | Greater Weapon Focus, energy resistance 10
    7 | Greater Weapon Specialization
    8 | 4th domain
    9 | Smite 3/day, energy resistance 20
    10 | Perfect Self, 5th domain[/table]
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-05-03 at 08:13 AM.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I think that it's not a bad class as written. I was just commenting on the fact that it's not a melee focused class. It's a spellcasting class. There's nothing wrong with that, except that you said you wanted it to be melee focused.
    Respectfully, I disagree. Your spell list is only 9 spells. Pretty hard to do anything useful with that. It's an awkward class though, requiring melee focus to get in (BaB +7 and Weapon Focus) yet grants spellcasting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    My suggestion, if you want to make it more combat focused, is still to reduce what you've given it for spellcasting. Giving all of its casting at 1st level is inviting a player to dip.
    To be fair, I'm not necessarily trying to make it a combat class, so much as not punishing to martials going in. As it is in the book, it's a bad idea fro martials, because you loose BaB and Hit Die for some pathetic casting. I just want it to not penalize you so hard, since you pretty much have to be a martial class to meet that BaB early enough to be relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I would suggest:
    • Drop the "domain power" ability and just grant the powers with the domains.
    • Gain one domain at 1st, a second at 2nd, third at 5th, fourth at 8th, and fifth at 10th.
    • Grant smite 1/day at 1st, stacking with any existing smite ability. Gives an incentive to paladins going in and a bit of a boost to non-pallys. Increase smites/day at 5th and 9th.
    I like adding smite, it definitely feels like a Paladin PrC; thanks for that.
    I had removed the domain powers because it was suggested earlier that it was really powerful, but if it incentivizes the class without making it too powerful, I'll throw them back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    These changes leave your class special looking like this:{table=head]Level|Special
    1|Aura, 1st domain, Smite 1/day
    2|2nd domain
    3|Electricity and Acid Resistance 5
    4|Weapon Specialization
    5|Electricity and Acid Resistance 10, 3rd domain, Smite 2/day
    6|Greater Weapon Focus
    7|Electricity and Acid Resistance 15
    8|Greater Weapon Specialization, 4th domain
    9|Electricity and Acid Resistance 20, Smite 3/day
    10|Perfect Self, 5th domain[/table]

    My other suggestion would be to drop Electricity and Acid resistance in favor of an ability named Energy Resistance. Progression would be 3rd - Energy Resistance 5, 6th - Energy Resistance 10, 9th - Energy Resistance 15.
    Energy Resistance (Ex) - A divine crusader gains resistance to two energy types of his choice from the following list: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. If he has an elemental domain, he must choose to resist energy as appropriate to that domain: Air (electricity), Earth (acid), Fire (fire), Water (cold). The amount of resistance he gains to these energy types is given on the table.
    Makes sense, simplifies things certainly. Changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    If you make that change, I would also dump Greater Weapon Specialization down 1 level to 7th. This gives you the following specials.
    {table=head]Level | Special
    1 | Aura, 1st domain, smite 1/day
    2 | 2nd domain
    3 | Energy resistance 5
    4 | Weapon Specialization
    5 | 3rd domain, smite 2/day
    6 | Greater Weapon Focus, energy resistance 10
    7 | Greater Weapon Specialization
    8 | 4th domain
    9 | Smite 3/day, energy resistance 20
    10 | Perfect Self, 5th domain[/table]
    Out of curiosity, any particular reason for the level drop? Seems almost arbitrary.

    Ooh, here's a thought, remove the Wep Spec/focus tree altogether, replace it with an ability at 1st level:

    Divine Judgement (Su): When making a melee attack, if the target's alignment opposes your deity's alignment on at least one axis, you may add half your Divine Crusader level to the attack roll as a Sacred Bonus (if your deity is good or neutral) or a Profane Bonus (if your deity is evil), and your whole Divine Crusader level to the damage roll, also as a sacred or profane bonus. If the target opposes your deity's alignment on both axis, instead add your whole Divine Crusader level to the attack roll, and twice your DC level to the damage roll. Divine Judgement stacks with the bonuses provided by Smite.

    But add also to the class:

    A Divine Crusader who commits an act that opposes his deity's precepts or whose alignment changes to no longer match his deity's immediately looses all Divine Crusader Su abilities and spells until he Atones (see spell) if the acts or change was involuntary. If he changes alignment willingly or knowingly commits a forbidden action, he looses all Su abilities and spells irrevocably and may no longer continue advancing as a Divine Crusader. If he somehow manages to find his way into another deity's good graces (and meets the alignment restriction), he may regain his abilities, though now through his new deity (including a new spell list and domain power).

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by ironwizard; 2013-05-03 at 10:18 AM.

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwizard View Post
    Respectfully, I disagree. Your spell list is only 9 spells. Pretty hard to do anything useful with that. It's an awkward class though, requiring melee focus to get in (BaB +7 and Weapon Focus) yet grants spellcasting.
    I was referring to your version, not the version in Complete Divine.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwizard View Post
    To be fair, I'm not necessarily trying to make it a combat class, so much as not punishing to martials going in. As it is in the book, it's a bad idea fro martials, because you loose BaB and Hit Die for some pathetic casting. I just want it to not penalize you so hard, since you pretty much have to be a martial class to meet that BaB early enough to be relevant.
    Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwizard View Post
    Makes sense, simplifies things certainly. Changed.

    Out of curiosity, any particular reason for the level drop? Seems almost arbitrary.
    Yeah, because there was a dead level there if it wasn't dropped one level.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwizard View Post
    Ooh, here's a thought, remove the Wep Spec/focus tree altogether, replace it with an ability at 1st level:

    Divine Judgement (Su): When making a melee attack, if the target's alignment opposes your deity's alignment on at least one axis, you may add half your Divine Crusader level to the attack roll as a Sacred Bonus (if your deity is good or neutral) or a Profane Bonus (if your deity is evil), and your whole Divine Crusader level to the damage roll, also as a sacred or profane bonus. If the target opposes your deity's alignment on both axis, instead add your whole Divine Crusader level to the attack roll, and twice your DC level to the damage roll. Divine Judgement stacks with the bonuses provided by Smite.

    But add also to the class:

    A Divine Crusader who commits an act that opposes his deity's precepts or whose alignment changes to no longer match his deity's immediately looses all Divine Crusader Su abilities and spells until he Atones (see spell) if the acts or change was involuntary. If he changes alignment willingly or knowingly commits a forbidden action, he looses all Su abilities and spells irrevocably and may no longer continue advancing as a Divine Crusader. If he somehow manages to find his way into another deity's good graces (and meets the alignment restriction), he may regain his abilities, though now through his new deity (including a new spell list and domain power).

    Thoughts?
    That's basically smite, isn't it? I'd add either that or smite, not both. Personally, I kind of like smite better, even if it is limited per day.


    1Edit: You might want to put the fully updated version, including the table, in your first post.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2013-05-03 at 11:24 AM.
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I was referring to your version, not the version in Complete Divine.
    My mistake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Yeah, because there was a dead level there if it wasn't dropped one level.
    Ah, gotcha

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    That's basically smite, isn't it? I'd add either that or smite, not both. Personally, I kind of like smite better, even if it is limited per day.
    Only one makes sense, any particular reason you prefer smite? Especially considering it's not very good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    You might want to put the fully updated version, including the table, in your first post.
    I'll do that right now

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by ironwizard View Post
    Only one makes sense, any particular reason you prefer smite? Especially considering it's not very good.
    Personal preference.
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    Quod tibi vis fieri, facias.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    I'm inclined to agree that the BAB is too much. I'd say nerf it to 3/4 or even one half, given that they get fast casting progression [like the Ur Priest or Apostle of Peace] and lots of other goodies too. Besides, if it's a divine class, they can always cast Divine Power [and what combat cleric worth their salt doesn't have Divine Power on pretty much all the time?]

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    The reason why I'm holding onto the Full BaB is that the class already requires BaB +7 to get it, so I get the feeling it was designed for martial classes. In light of that, I don't want to reduce the BaB, because that alone makes the class not worth taking. Now I know that full BaB + lvl 9 casting is good, so the counter is to make the casting limited.

    But, you say, the class as written was already limited, it only had one domain worth of spells! To that I respond that I want the class limited, not hamstrung.

    At this point, it's a confused mix of martial and caster. I would like to get that sorted out, with the following goals/requirements:

    Full BaB
    Good Hit Die (doesn't have to be d10 though)
    Keeps accelerated lvl 9 Casting
    Slightly improved Spell List

    Flavor: An alternative to Prestige Paladin for non-Paladins who seek to find Divine Power, or a way for the Paladin to improve his casting

    With my purpose now clearly stated (I apologize for not putting it out earlier), any suggestions? (I'll try to draw up a full version 2.0, but finals are approaching, so might be a while)

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Rizban's Avatar

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    I see you kept all the domains available at first level. To me that still makes this a dip class. Get all spellcasting with one level and move on elsewhere.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I see you kept all the domains available at first level. To me that still makes this a dip class. Get all spellcasting with one level and move on elsewhere.
    So you're saying expand the spell list as you level up, not just add domain powers?

    My Homebrew:
    The Eldritch Stalker, Warlock/Rogue Gish PrC
    The Divergent Elementalist, an arcane casting PrC based on the Fire/Ice duality/opposition
    The Arcanist, a Metamagic Focused Arcane Base Class
    Paladin Fix
    Divine Crusader Fix (Abandoned)

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Rizban's Avatar

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    Default Re: Divine Crusader Fix - PEACH

    Yes, that's what I said above too.

    Give 1 domain, including spells and domain power, at 1st level, give the second domain and power at 2nd level, etc. Don't give any spell of power access prior to that level. While that does limit their casting some, it encourages characters to stick with the class to gain the additional spells. If you grant all spells at 1st level, the rest of the class really doesn't have anything special or unique to offer, and there are other martially oriented PrCs that grant casting progression that would be too tempting to pass up.

    Regardless of what you do with the spells though, it's almost guaranteed to be better to go take a few levels in Sovereign Speaker (Faiths of Eberron) for the extra domains and casting progression or in Sand Shaper (Sandstorm) for more spells and progression and other powers.

    Granting all spells at first level means that there is no tangible benefit to taking more levels in this class over levels in either of those two classes or the classes I've mentioned previously.
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    Quod tibi vis fieri, facias.

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