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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Teeth Eaters

    "We want to be your friends... We're waiting for you... We want you... To play, yes... Come and join us."
    ~~Teeth Eaters~~



    Creature's Name: Teeth Eaters
    Size and Type: Tiny Fey
    Hit Dice: 6d6+18, (42 hp)
    Initiative: +5
    Speed: 20 ft. (4 Squares); Climb 20 ft.
    Armor Class: 19, Touch 17, Flat-Footed 14 (+5 Dex, +2 Natural, +2 Size)
    BAB/Grapple: +3/-4
    Attack: Small dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or Claw +10 melee (1d3+1)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (1d3+1) or two Small daggers +8 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or one dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) and one claw +5 melee (1d3+1)
    Space/Reach: 2 1/2 ft. / 5 ft.
    Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +3d6, The Calling (DC 18)
    Special Qualities: Kneecapper, Light Suppression, Light Weakness, Low-Light Vision, Oversized Arms, See in Darkness, Unluck Aura 20 ft.
    Saves: Fort +5, Ref +10, Will +8
    Abilities: Str 13, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 20
    Skills: Balance 3 ranks (+8), Bluff 9 ranks (+9), Climb 3 ranks (+12*), Disable Device 9 ranks (+11), Hide 9 ranks (+25), Intimidate 4 ranks (+9), Jump 4 ranks -6 speed penalty (-1), Knowledge (nature) 4 ranks (+6), Listen 9 ranks (+12), Move Silently 9 ranks (+14), Slight of Hand 3 ranks (+8), and Spot 6 ranks (+9)
    Feats: Skill Focus (Hide), Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
    Environment: forests, marshes, underground
    Organization: solitary, pair, or gang (3–8)
    Challenge Rating: 6
    Treasure: Half Standard (Plus two small daggers)
    Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
    Advancement: 7-10 HD (Tiny)
    Level Adjustment: +3 (Cohort)

    Teeth Eaters are ugly little fey that love to steal children, feeding on teeth and bones. They call to them, luring them away from safety then swarm over their prey before dragging them away. Teeth Eaters about 1 foot tall and weigh only 3 lbs. They have long dragging arms that have powerful clawed hands. Oddly, their legs are frail and not as strong in proportion to their arms.

    There is no playing fair with these fey, they lean towards coercion to get teeth, promising lies until they cannot get what they want; at which point they seize what they want, even if its still attached to the jaws of their living prey.

    Teeth Eaters speak Common and Sylvan


    Combat

    Climb Speed:
    A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but it always can choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing.

    If a creature with a climb speed chooses an accelerated climb, it moves at double its climb speed (or at its land speed, whichever is slower) and makes a single Climb check at a -5 penalty. Such a creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing.

    Kneecapper (Ex):
    Teeth Eaters have a +4 racial bonus on checks to trip an opponent.

    Light Suppression (Su):
    A single teeth eater produces a darkness effect, centered on itself. However, if more than one are close to each other, then choose a single point roughly between the group. From that point, the effect grows more powerful. All Teeth Eaters must be within 20 ft. of each other for the effect to increase. This effect functions as if it had a spell level equal to one plus the number of teeth eaters in the effect (Max 5th level).


    Light Weakness (Ex):
    Creatures with light weakness are blinded for 1 round and take 3d6 points of damage if exposed to bright light, such as natural sunlight or a daylight/sunburst spell. Such creatures are panicked as long as they remain in areas of bright light. If exposed to any lesser light the creature suffers 3d6 nonlethal damage and is frightened instead of panicked.

    Oversized Arms (Ex):
    Teeth Eaters can wield weapons sized for small creatures without penalty. Teeth Eaters have long dragging arms with powerful hands that give it a reach of 5 ft. and a +2 racial bonus on grapple and disarm checks if bare-handed. Teeth Eaters also have long sharp claws that deal damage like that of a small-sized creature rather than tiny-sized.

    See in Darkness (Su):
    Teeth Eaters can see perfectly in darkness of any kind, including that created by deeper darkness.

    Sneak Attack (Ex):
    Teeth Eaters are treated as rogues of equal class level for calculating sneak attack damage.

    The Calling (Su):
    As a standard action, Teeth Eaters can fascinate one creature within 100 ft. (DC 18) by calling out to them in whispered voices, an attempt to lure it away from safety. This is a mind-affecting compulsion effect (not language dependent so it affects almost every intelligent creature). Any other creature nearby does not hear the whispers. This ability can be maintained each round as a swift action.

    Unluck Aura (Su):
    Teeth Eaters radiates an aura of unluck to a radius of 20 feet. Any creature in this area must roll two d20s whenever a situation calls for a d20 roll (such as an attack roll, a skill check, or a saving throw) and must use the lower of the two results generated. This is a mind-affecting effect that does not work on mindless creatures, animals or other Teeth Eaters. Any character who gains any sort of luck bonus (such as that granted by a luckstone or divine favor) is immune to the Teeth Eaters unluck aura.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-05-03 at 09:06 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Raiki's Avatar

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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    I like it. It has a nice, creepy vibe. As far as challenge rating goes, I'd spitball it at about a 4-5. Although in groups of 4 or more, or when given class levels other than rogue, the CR would rise more quickly than stated in the DMG.

    Out of curiosity, is this based on something, or did you just feel like playing on the primeval fear of shattered or lost teeth that everyone has on some level?

    ~R~

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiki View Post
    I like it. It has a nice, creepy vibe. As far as challenge rating goes, I'd spitball it at about a 4-5. Although in groups of 4 or more, or when given class levels other than rogue, the CR would rise more quickly than stated in the DMG.

    Out of curiosity, is this based on something, or did you just feel like playing on the primeval fear of shattered or lost teeth that everyone has on some level?

    ~R~
    I was thinking CR 6 outright, since they have really good stats, potent abilities, and are OP in comparison to similar fey of similar Hit Dice.

    Its a remade movie from a few years back

    Reduced the light suppression effect, allowing it to increase as the creatures gather in groups.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-05-02 at 05:01 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    THAT PICTURE WHY. I HATE YOU SO MUCH.

    No sleep tonight, nosirree.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Urist View Post
    THAT PICTURE WHY. I HATE YOU SO MUCH.

    No sleep tonight, nosirree.
    You're welcome. Glad to be of service.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    A few missteps here but otherwise it looks very good. I like the theme of this.

    Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), Climb 20 ft.

    Because it has a Climb speed you need to add this to skills section:

    "A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but it always can choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. If a creature with a climb speed chooses an accelerated climb, it moves at double its climb speed (or at its land speed, whichever is slower) and makes a single Climb check at a -5 penalty. Such a creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing."

    Standard critical is 20x2 so unless it has something other than that, you don't need to mention it. All primary attacks belong in the attack line separated by "or". See below. Natural weapons don't have iterative attacks. It can use a dagger and claw but the claw is treated as a secondary weapon. It takes the -5 penalty to attack. Note that secondary attacks use 1/2 Str modifier so this is how your attack lines should look. The Troll is a perfect example of how natural weapons and manufactured weapons work. The creature also does not qualify for multiattack so I recommend changing the feat.

    Note: Two-weapon Fighting does not work with natural weapons. It only works with manufactured weapons and unarmed attacks.

    Attack: Small dagger +8 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or Claw +8 melee (1d3+1)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +8 melee (1d3+1) or Small dagger +8 melee (1d3+1/19-20) and claw +3 melee (1d3)

    Skills need some work. A creature's Jump check is modified by its speed. If its speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If its speed is less than 30 feet, it takes a -6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. You might want to give it a racial bonus to boost its Jump.

    Jump -1 (+ 4 ranks, +1 Str, - 6 speed). It's easier to critique if you have creature notes at the bottom with how you applied all the modifiers.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-05-03 at 03:16 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    A few missteps here but otherwise it looks very good. I like the theme of this.

    The Troll is a perfect example of how natural weapons and manufactured weapons work. The creature also does not qualify for multiattack so I recommend changing the feat.

    Debby
    Thank you

    The Troll? you mean Teeth Eaters or are you saying refer to the Trolls for an example? Multiattack? this fey doesn't have that feat, why is that relevant?

    Otherwise, thanks. I've made the corrections.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    I meant to use the troll as an example of how a creature with natural attacks and weapons works.

    Teeth eaters don't qualify for Two Weapon Attack and they don't qualify for Multiattack either. You need to replace TWA with another feat.

    Also, I just realized that as a Tiny creature the attack is BAB + size modifier + Dex (since it has weapon finesse and it applies to both claws and its dagger)

    BAB +3, Size +2, Dex + 5 = +10 not +8

    This is the corrected attack lines.

    Attack: Small dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or Claw +10 melee (1d3+1)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (1d3+1) or Small dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) and claw +5 melee (1d3)

    On further look, I think the CR is pretty high for these.

    Vorpal Tribble’s CR estimator

    #1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5.
    4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD., 6.5 for 20-25 HD.

    42/5= 8.4 (so rounding down) is 8
    #2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.

    +3

    #3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if it has a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).

    +2

    #4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.

    +6

    #5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.

    +0

    #6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.

    8+3+2+6= 19/3= 6.3. So it's squarely a CR 6.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-05-03 at 06:30 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    I meant to use the troll as an example of how a creature with natural attacks and weapons works.

    Teeth eaters don't qualify for Two Weapon Attack and they don't qualify for Multiattack either. You need to replace TWA with another feat.

    On further look, I think the CR is pretty high for these.

    CR 6

    Debby
    (Prerequisite: Dex 15) is all you need for TWF (it has Dex 20). I added a second dagger to the list of gear it has, so it can benefit from the feat.

    fixed the CR and attack tables. Thanks. I hate calculating CR.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Okay, now it makes sense. It needed that second dagger. You forgot to add the damage to your last full attack. Otherwise, it's looking very good.

    Attack: Small dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or Claw +10 melee (1d3+1)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (1d3+1) or two Small daggers +8 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or one dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) and one claw +5 melee (1d3)

    Since these are Fey, shouldn't they have low-light vision in addition to See in Darkness?

    VT's CR Estimator is the easiest way to calculate CR. It doesn't take much time at all and I think it is pretty accurate.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Okay, now it makes sense. It needed that second dagger. You forgot to add the damage to your last full attack. Otherwise, it's looking very good.

    Attack: Small dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or Claw +10 melee (1d3+1)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (1d3+1) or two Small daggers +8 melee (1d3+1/19-20) or one dagger +10 melee (1d3+1/19-20) and one claw +5 melee (1d3)

    Since these are Fey, shouldn't they have low-light vision in addition to See in Darkness?

    VT's CR Estimator is the easiest way to calculate CR. It doesn't take much time at all and I think it is pretty accurate.

    Debby
    okay.

    Isn't low-light vision redundant? See in Darkness kind of removes the point, in my opinion.





    Debby (or anyone else), does the LA fit as a cohort. also, could this work as an improved familiar?
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. See in Darkness still doesn't affect that.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. See in Darkness still doesn't affect that.

    Debby
    alright. I was just pointing out that a creature with 'see in darkness' can see just as well in normal light as he does in darkness. Therefore worrying about dim light or whatnot is not really something to take into account. You cant double something that is infinite in distance in light and dark (assuming you could make the check).


    But what about the LA, i really just tacked in on there. I want it to be a cohort and maybe a familiar (through improved familiar), but i dont know how it would function. With the LA, it could be off.

    Im playing a Petal Spy (Scout/Spell-less Ranger/Duelist) from MM3 has been my current character. Compared to the petal, this is more powerful, so LA +3 might be either spot on or way too low.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-05-03 at 09:59 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    alright. I was just pointing out that a creature with 'see in darkness' can see just as well in normal light as he does in darkness. Therefore worrying about dim light or whatnot is not really something to take into account. You cant double something that is infinite in distance in light and dark (assuming you could make the check).
    Except dim light isn't darkness and your critter can't see twice as far in it. That's all I'm saying.

    But what about the LA? I really just tacked in on there. I want it to be a cohort and maybe a familiar (through improved familiar), but i don't know how it would function. With the LA, it could be off.
    Savage Species has suggestions for figuring out LA. Having +10 to Charisma and Dexterity is worth more than the elite array so that is worth LA +1, Natural Armor is LA +1, Having a Climb speed is worth LA +1 and so forth. I'd say giving it sneak attack is worth LA +1 and then you have to consider if it stacks with levels of Rogue or not. It also gains LA -1 for size (it isn't -2 because its penalties are offset by having longer than normal reach and can use larger weapons ). The other abilities aren't worth LA individually, so it looks to be about LA +3 to me. It's a tough call because these haven't been playtested.

    I'm playing a Petal Spy (Scout/Spell-less Ranger/Duelist) from MM3 as my current character. Compared to the petal, this is more powerful, so LA +3 might be either spot on or way too low.
    The only way to know for sure is to playtest it. But on paper it looks to be about LA +3 (LA +4 only if you think the other abilities are worth another +1 adjustment).

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-05-03 at 11:53 PM.
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Teeth Eaters (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    The only way to know for sure is to playtest it. But on paper it looks to be about LA +3 (LA +4 only if you think the other abilities are worth another +1 adjustment).

    Debby
    Fair enough, ill have to try it out. It might be better to have it as a simple monster non-cohort.
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