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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Iliumin's Avatar

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    May 2013

    Default Detect Life and hiding

    Quick backstory. I was scouting ahead of the group and ran into a rakshasa, which has the supernatural ability to detect thoughts (per the spell).

    Aside from the fact that I didn't get a will save to resist, and the rakshasa was able to use the ability in a sphere instead of a cone that pentrated over two feet of stone, the DM also ruled that the rakshasa was able to see me without rolling a contested spot check against my hide.

    I built my entire character around the ability to hide, and in this circumstance had rolled a 45 hide check. This pretty much seems to unilaterally make my character 100% useless for the low, low cost of a 2nd level spell. Is this really how this spell works?

    Relevant SRD: Detect Thoughts, Rakshasa

    Additionally, would being invisible make any difference whatsoever?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Aug 2008
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    Midwest, not Middle East
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    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    Detect Thoughts shouldn't be quite that good. Leaving aside the 2' of stone, and the requirement to concentrate on Detect Thoughts (a standard action every round, by my reading), all he should have known is that there's an intelligent mind around somewhere. The will save only protects you from having your thoughts read, he would still know something intelligent was around (leaving aside all the reasons he shouldn't have found you, anyway.)

    It wouldn't have helped in this case, but check out Darkstalker from Lords of Madness. It's a pretty necessary feat for a hiding-focused character.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
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    Jul 2010
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    Argonth
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    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    Quote Originally Posted by Iliumin View Post
    Quick backstory. I was scouting ahead of the group and ran into a rakshasa, which has the supernatural ability to detect thoughts (per the spell).

    Aside from the fact that I didn't get a will save to resist, and the rakshasa was able to use the ability in a sphere instead of a cone that pentrated over two feet of stone, the DM also ruled that the rakshasa was able to see me without rolling a contested spot check against my hide.

    I built my entire character around the ability to hide, and in this circumstance had rolled a 45 hide check. This pretty much seems to unilaterally make my character 100% useless for the low, low cost of a 2nd level spell. Is this really how this spell works?

    Relevant SRD: Detect Thoughts, Rakshasa

    Additionally, would being invisible make any difference whatsoever?
    Nope, that is certainly not how that spell works. Being invisible won't help you, the problem is that your DM is intentionally screwing you over.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Iliumin's Avatar

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    May 2013

    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Detect Thoughts shouldn't be quite that good. Leaving aside the 2' of stone, and the requirement to concentrate on Detect Thoughts (a standard action every round, by my reading), all he should have known is that there's an intelligent mind around somewhere. The will save only protects you from having your thoughts read, he would still know something intelligent was around (leaving aside all the reasons he shouldn't have found you, anyway.)
    So it would work more like an active search with maybe a circumstance bonus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    It wouldn't have helped in this case, but check out Darkstalker from Lords of Madness. It's a pretty necessary feat for a hiding-focused character.
    Thank you for the darkstalker mention. Didn't even know that existed!

    As a followup question then, would an assassin's death attack (found here) still be viable? The description says specifically "as long as the target does not detect the assassin".

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

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    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    Quote Originally Posted by Iliumin View Post
    So it would work more like an active search with maybe a circumstance bonus?
    If a given mind is not within line of sight, then the only thing Detect Thoughts tells you about its location is "somewhere within this 60-foot-cone shaped area, or else I wouldn't be detecting it at all."

    Of course, if you stayed still long enough then it could narrow down your specific direction by moving the cone around. But that would be your fault.
    Last edited by Sith_Happens; 2013-05-06 at 07:12 PM.
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    Banned
     
    Scow2's Avatar

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    Oct 2009
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    Ohio

    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    Yes, Detect spells do **** over stealth-based characters.

    However, your GM deliberately screwed you over and you should call him on it by overpowering the ability - it cannot see that far through stone, it detects in a cone, and requires a standard action to pinpoint.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    sleepyphoenixx's Avatar

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    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    Ring of Mind Shielding or Mind Blank make you immune, nondetection forces an opposed CL check (which you usually fail when it matters unless you have a lot of CL boosters).
    Since Rakshasa are CR 10 the ring is probably the only solution that's viable for you. You can upgrade to Mind Blank later since it's pretty much a necessity at higher levels anyway.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Iliumin's Avatar

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    May 2013

    Default Re: Detect Life and hiding

    I've been looking at Mind Blank for the long term, but at 120k+ it's been a little out of my price range. At 8k I think Mind Shielding is a great alternative.

    Anyone happen to know about the assassin death attack? Would the assassin be considered "detected" on the first round of Detect Thoughts before the pinpointing?

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