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Thread: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
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2013-05-08, 02:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
So I was thinking about making Sorcerers dual-stat casters like spirit shaman and favored souls, with Intelligence governing their bonus spells, but I also want to give them something to compensate for that. A couple ideas I had were:
- Metamagic specialist ACF without giving up their familiar.
- Eschew Materials, Still Spell, or Silent Spell at 1st and a metamagic feat at 5/10/15/20
- A bloodline feat (DrC) as a bonus at 1st.
- Some combination of the above.
What do you think?
(Oh, as a sidenote, this would be for a campaign with Wizards and Clerics nerfed out of viability.)Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep
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2013-05-08, 03:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-05-08, 05:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
Honestly, more spells known is what would make Sorcerers more fun to play.
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2013-05-08, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
I think what would make Sorcerers more fun to play is class features. Getting the stuff on the list and maybe a few more skills wouldn't be terrible.
If I were remaking the Sorcerer at least one thing I'd do would increase their caster level a few times. Something like +3 by level 20. Sorcerers are supposed to be inherently magical, why are they evenly matched with Wizards and get their spells later?If you feel like quoting something that I have said, you have my permission to use it. Unless it makes me look stupid.
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2013-05-08, 07:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
Sorcerers don't need bonus spells that much so it's not a huge nerf. That said, each of the above is only worth 1 feat, and they aren't that great except for the general metamagic feats. I know a lot of playgrounders would jump to take the ACF one, but you usually don't need your move action so it's actually not that special. I would let the player take any one of his choice off your list at level 1, except the metamagic not specifically named.
For silent spell be sure to know the listen rules, that casting must be in a strong voice and that you can usually take a 10 on move silently outside of combat. Without knowing stealth rules it's a useless feat.
I think this is already devolving into a "sorcerer fix" thread even when the OP says he nerfed clerics & wizards into uselessness. We should focus on things that match the OP's drawback and nothing more.Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-05-08 at 08:13 AM.
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2013-05-08, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-05-08, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-05-08, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
They can get that too
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2013-05-09, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-05-09, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
Illumian can change that second stat to dex or con, to make them less MAD. So it's not a huge nerf (or, since they get so many spells per day anyway, they may not care, in effect doing something very similar).
As far as making them better, I agree, more spells known (not necessarily per day), as far as I know, what makes wizards T1 and Sorcerers T2 is the huge difference in (at least possible) spells known.
Although, I think that is an uneven buff for the nerf (in favor of the buff).
I would think something like "Attracts magic to you naturally, often in a negative way, acting like a lightning rod for magic, making all magical effects within 30 feet, good or bad, also affect the Sorcerer." would be both a buff and a nerf that fits the fluff, scales with levels and is potentially scary and will affect how the player plays the class and how people react to him.
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2013-05-09, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers
See, that's really cool but also really scary from both a DM and a player perspective. On the one hand, that means that the Sorcerer automatically shares all of the Cleric's buffs, including the Range: Personal ones like Divine Power. On the other hand, that means more damage. Over all, that means more player deaths and more trivialized encounters, neither of which I like.
The reason I want to make them a dual-stat class is that, since the tier-1 casters are gone, all of the non-fixed list casters are dual-stat except sorcerers. They already have the advantage of the best list, so I don't want to give them any more advantage.Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep
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2013-05-09, 02:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Buffing/nerfing sorcerers