Condition track killer (Star Wars Saga)

[Fenris82]

So, I need help. I found this build online and really like the idea of it. But it only uses core book. I don’t have access to the other books off hand, but i can get them. I wanted to make this better. Would using a Gamorreans or Trandoshans be any better? Any help would be great. Could it be done as a droid? Please feel free to help, I’m not super familiar with star wars saga. The only rule I was given was no force use. I’ll be starting at 3rd Level with 7000 creds to buy gear.

Our timeline places us between episode 5 and 6.



The Melee Condition Track Killer

Species: Wookiee.

I went with the Wookiee because the species easily fits the motif of the build. He’s got the highest Strength bonus of all the species in the Core Rulebook and has the devastating Rage ability that makes him even more ferocious in combat. His ability to shrug off even the most debilitating wounds more quickly than any other species also helps them to get back into the fight more quickly, and his bonus to Constitution gives him a little extra staying power in the middle of a knock-down, drag out fight. Wookiees do take three ability score penalties, but two of the three stats don’t have a bearing on this build. The other one is a hit to Dexterity, which does bring down our Reflex Defense a little bit, but nothing that can’t be compensated for later on.

Stats -

At 1st level

Strength -18 (+4)

Dexterity -13 (+1)

Constitution – 16 (+3)

Intelligence – 11 (+0)

Wisdom -6 (-2)

Charisma -8 (-1)

When budgeting points, Strength and Constitution are your two primary stats, in that order. Strength not only allows you to deal more damage to break an opponent’s damage threshold, but also allows you to hit more often, Strength being your prime combat stat. A high Constitution not only allows your character to take more damage through more hit points, but also helps to drive up your Fortitude Defense, which helps you avoid being the victim of the same tactics that you yourself use. Dexterity is nice, but a super high one isn’t essential at 1st level. You can easily pick up a suit of armor to keep yourself ahead of the curve at lower levels, either trading out for your character level at higher levels or picking up a couple of key soldier talents to let you keep another possible source of a Fortitude Defense bonus. When looking to spend your points every four levels, Strength and Constitution are always solid choices. Putting a few points into Dexterity isn’t a bad idea, though I’d recommend putting your first one into Intelligence to pick up another trained skill, but I’ll discuss that more a little later.

Level Spread

Levels 1-2 – Soldier

Level 3 – Scoundrel

Level 4-8 – Soldier

Level 9-18 – Elite Trooper

Level 19-20 – Soldier

You’re largely going to want to stick with the soldier class. It starts you off with some great armor proficiencies, plus it has the highest hit die of the basic classes not to mention the highest base attack bonus. However, a level dip into Scoundrel for Dastardly Strike is highly worth it in my opinion, plus it allows you to train in Deception as a trained skill in order to more fully utilize the Dastardly Strike, and lets you pick up the (worthless to you) Point Blank Shot feat for free in order to qualify for the Elite Trooper class (since we’re doing Core Rulebook only for this build, you don’t have access to the Flurry feat that can be substituted).

Level 1 -

Feat – Weapon Proficiency (advanced melee weapons) – This class of weapons gets you access to the melee weapons with the highest damage output, plain and simple.

Talent – Devastating Attack (advanced melee weapons) -This starts you off on the track of breaking a foes damage threshold more often by allowing you to treat it lower.

Level 2

Soldier Bonus Feat – Power Attack – This gives you a huge trade-off for taking a penalty on your attack rolls to add to your damage rolls, at a double rate if you’re using the weapon two handed (which you should be ;) ).

Level 3

Feats – Rapid Strike, Point Blank Shot – Rapid Strike gives you an extra die of damage in exchange for a measly -2 to your attack roll (since you have the required Dexterity score needed for the smaller penalty). This is pretty much a no-brainer feat. Point Blank Shot is gained from the level dip into Scoundrel, which satisfies a feat prerequisite for entry into the Elite Trooper prestige class.

Talent – Dastardly Strike – This lets you move a foe a guaranteed step down the condition track should you catch them without their Dexterity bonus to Reflex, on top of what you might normally move them down. This is nice under the right circumstances. A little later, we’ll move to help those circumstances come about more often.

Level 4

Stat Bumps – +1 Dex, +1 Int – Use your new Intelligence bonus to train in Deception.

Talent – Melee Smash – A +1 bonus to melee damage rolls may not seem like much in the grand scheme, but since it’s untyped, it stacks with everything, and is a set up for our next soldier talent.

Level 5

Soldier Bonus Feat – Martial Arts I – Unarmed fighting isn’t what we’re really going for, but it not only satisfies a prerequisite for entry into the Elite Trooper, but gives us a solid backup option should we find ourselves ever without a weapon, and gives us a +1 dodge bonus to Reflex Defense on top of it. Not bad.

Level 6

Talent – Stunning Strike – This talent lets you move a foe an additional step down the condition track should you beat his damage threshold. Now we’re up to -3 steps per hit should we catch a foe flat-footed and break his damage threshold from one attack. Scary.

Feat – Improved Charge – This feat gives you an extra damage bump when charging, which is a nice combat option for melee types to close the distance faster when they need to.

Level 7

Soldier Bonus Feat – Weapon Focus (advanced melee weapons) – This gives you a permanent +1 to hit with advanced melee weapons. This is always a good option.

Level 8

Ability Bumps – +1 Str, +1 Dex

Talent – Weapon Specialization (advanced melee weapons) – This gives you a little damage bump when using advanced melee weapons, which all goes toward helping to break a foes damage threshold.

Level 9

Talent – Greater Weapon Focus (advanced melee weapons) – This is our first Elite Trooper talent, and increases our bonus to hit with our weapon that we got from Weapon Focus, and sets us up for the last next few talents.

Feat – Double Attack (advanced melee weapons) – This gives us our first chance to take an opponent down in one round, provided we catch him without his Dexterity bonus to his Reflex Defense and break his damage threshold with each attack.

Level 11

Talent – Greater Devastating Attack (advanced melee weapons) – This moves the penalty to a foes damage threshold from -5 to -10. This is an absolutely mean talent.

Level 12

Ability Bump – +1 Str, +1 Dex

Feat – Extra Rage – This gets us one additional use of our devastating Rage ability per day, plain and simple, simple and dirty.

Level 13

Talent – Greater Weapon Specialization (advanced melee weapons) – This is the same story as Weapon Specialization, only the damage bonus is greater.

Level 15

Feat – Extra Second Wind – This feat allows us to last an extra encounter or two per day by allowing us one more use of the Second Wind action each day.

Talent – Indomitable – This talent lets you turn the tables on an opponent who is trying to use the same tactics on you by letting you jump to the top of the condition track once per day. This can put you back in the fight in a second and allow you put some serious hurt on an opponent.

Level 16

Ability Bumps – +1 Str, +1 Con

Level 17

Talent – Tough As Nails – This is the same concept as the Extra Second Weapon feat, giving you a few more encounters per day that you can conceivably last through.

Level 18

Feat – Improved Damage Threshold – This gives your own damage threshold a boost of 5 points, allowing you to foil the plans of a foe that attempts to use your own tactics against you.

Level 19

Solder Bonus Feat – Triple Attack (advanced melee weapons) – This gets you a third attack with your weapons as a full attack. Simple and nasty, not to mention highly effective.

Level 20

Ability Bumps – +1 Str, +1 Con

Talent – Indomitable – This gives you one more use of the talent per day.

[Alejandro]

You'll find tons of Saga help in the Other forum, where the Saga threads are, including the main one:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267237

Brief answer: Most GMs, including myself, do not let players make severe CT killer characters. They tend to cause problems only answerable by severe GM response, like using CT killer enemies, which players absolutely hate (because they hate being one shotted out of a battle.)

[Mando Knight]

Brief answer: Most GMs, including myself, do not let players make severe CT killer characters. They tend to cause problems only answerable by severe GM response, like using CT killer enemies, which players absolutely hate (because they hate being one shotted out of a battle.)

That, and a ranged CT killer can be even worse, and a counter to a non-Jedi melee CT killer. Snipers can be harder to counter and will always deny your Dexterity to Reflex... and don't need to exceed your Damage Threshold to drop you. Since you don't have an armor setup and only a +2 Class bonus to Reflex, you'll be in danger to a rifle from downtown.

Weapon: Sniper Rifle or DLT-30A, preferably with a bipod, double trigger, and targeting scope. Talent of interest: Debilitating Shot. Also useful: Assassin's Sniping talents, for keeping it up while sitting a quarter-mile away.

[Dienekes]

You'll find tons of Saga help in the Other forum, where the Saga threads are, including the main one:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267237

Brief answer: Most GMs, including myself, do not let players make severe CT killer characters. They tend to cause problems only answerable by severe GM response, like using CT killer enemies, which players absolutely hate (because they hate being one shotted out of a battle.)

True, but this is nowhere near as powerful as a ranged CT killer. I think the max it can do is -4 steps in a hit and the opponent has to be flat-footed and in melee. I'd probably allow it in my game.

[Fenris82]

How does the ranged CT Killer work? Any builds you guys know of online? I saw one that used a Gungan, just for the fun of a bad ass Gungan.


I really wanted to make a Hacker (slicer) but I cant find anything I like class wise. The tree sucks.....

[Hyena]

You need to be both bounty hunter and gunslinger, use stun weapon and dastardly strike.

[Dienekes]

How does the ranged CT Killer work? Any builds you guys know of online? I saw one that used a Gungan, just for the fun of a bad ass Gungan.


I really wanted to make a Hacker (slicer) but I cant find anything I like class wise. The tree sucks.....

CT Killer, just so you know. Do not do it or let your players do it. I'm serious here.

Going over Damage Threshold -1 (Devastating Attack recommended, but not strictly speaking necessary)
Stunning Weapon -1
Debilitating Shot: Gunslinger Talent, -1 after you aim
Hunter's Mark: Bounty Hunter talent, -1 after you aim
Dastardly Strike -1 if flat-footed.

After that it's just finding ways to make opponents flat-footed and getting aiming cheaper. Which only takes a few more talents or feats.

[Alejandro]

How does the ranged CT Killer work? Any builds you guys know of online? I saw one that used a Gungan, just for the fun of a bad ass Gungan.


I really wanted to make a Hacker (slicer) but I cant find anything I like class wise. The tree sucks.....

It's easy to make an awesome hacker. Have a great INT, take Skill Focuses in Use Computer and Persuasion (social engineering) take the various Scoundrel talents about slicing, and pick up a level of Infiltrator to let you make Use Computer checks as Gather Information checks. Done!

A melee CT killer will, eventually, face enemies that just use jetpacks to stay away from them and then rain grenades on him. A ranged one is harder to deal with unless you're really good at Stealth.

But: Just don't make CT killer characters. They're one of the few weak points in Saga in terms of abuse, and they cause problems at the table.

[Mando Knight]

After that it's just finding ways to make opponents flat-footed and getting aiming cheaper. Which only takes a few more talents or feats.

Or getting close enough to do an aimed shot from stealth a mere 9 meters from your target. Because if you're going to one-shot an enemy, you can take all the time you want. Stun grenades could work instead, but have the problem of being incompatible with Debilitating Shot, even when used with a grenade launcher. Snare rifles won't be getting you the damage needed to exceed the target's threshold anyway, so you can forget about them.

If you're not averse to taking two shots and actually killing your target, forgoing the stun setting lets you set up at Short range with the Assassin and several of its sniping talents, as well as making your effective Stealth check sky-high (31 squares (minimum for Short range on a rifle) away and standard concealment imposes a -20 to the opponent's Perception to beat your Stealth).

[RandomLunatic]

Stun grenades sadly cannot be aimed, so you have to get more creative.

For general use, a Stun Pistol (Legacy) will get you pretty far. Most encounters take place within 20 squares anyway. Ideally you load it up with the Bothan template and a Pulse Charger to actually crack those damage thresholds.

For longer ranges, the Carbonite Rifle (KoTOR) would be fantastic if it worked with the Gunslinger's Debilitating Shot, but it does not. So your only option is the hugely expensive Stokhli Spray Stick (TFU).

But as the others have said, you should not use a CT killer build in a real game. Nobody wins.

[Fenris82]

It's easy to make an awesome hacker. Have a great INT, take Skill Focuses in Use Computer and Persuasion (social engineering) take the various Scoundrel talents about slicing, and pick up a level of Infiltrator to let you make Use Computer checks as Gather Information checks. Done!

A melee CT killer will, eventually, face enemies that just use jetpacks to stay away from them and then rain grenades on him. A ranged one is harder to deal with unless you're really good at Stealth.

But: Just don't make CT killer characters. They're one of the few weak points in Saga in terms of abuse, and they cause problems at the table.

I dont like that talents for the Slicer, I looked at them, and they look kind of pointless =-/

If someoe wants to help I would love to see how they work, and can be useful!

[Alejandro]

The talents don't matter as much as the skill does. This is one of those nice setups where you can, if you wish, spend your talents on something totally different; as long as you Focus in Use Computer and get some gear (computer interface visor, computer spikes, and so on) you're set.

[Mando Knight]

Maybe Master Slicer and Trace... levels in Saga are mostly for how cool you are at everything else. Your average mom's-basement super-nerd isn't a Heroic character, and even the hyper-slicer types that get shown in forensic dramas would only have a couple levels of Scoundrel on them. An adventuring slicer is a cyber-saboteur who is on the run from stormtroopers and needs to physically infiltrate Imperial battlestations to wreck their systems from the inside... and is often a meter-tall droid.

[Fenris82]

Maybe Master Slicer and Trace... levels in Saga are mostly for how cool you are at everything else. Your average mom's-basement super-nerd isn't a Heroic character, and even the hyper-slicer types that get shown in forensic dramas would only have a couple levels of Scoundrel on them. An adventuring slicer is a cyber-saboteur who is on the run from stormtroopers and needs to physically infiltrate Imperial battlestations to wreck their systems from the inside... and is often a meter-tall droid.

Ok, so I dont ned to focus on the scoundral tree. Ill be employed by the Empire. We are based between spe. 5 and 6

[Godrocks911]

That, and a ranged CT killer can be even worse, and a counter to a non-Jedi melee CT killer. Snipers can be harder to counter and will always deny your Dexterity to Reflex... and don't need to exceed your Damage Threshold to drop you. Since you don't have an armor setup and only a +2 Class bonus to Reflex, you'll be in danger to a rifle from downtown.

Weapon: Sniper Rifle or DLT-30A, preferably with a bipod, double trigger, and targeting scope. Talent of interest: Debilitating Shot. Also useful: Assassin's Sniping talents, for keeping it up while sitting a quarter-mile away.

I see that people defaulting to a pistol or some sort of rifle, why not a heavy weapons CT killer.

My GM encourages his players to try to break the game, he said he likes to be kept on his toes. His predecessor had been playing D&D for 40+ years and taught im most all of the ins and outs of how to bend the rules or just use them to your advantage in order to decimate your foes. That being said I have no such skills, I have been playing SWSE on and off for the last 4ish years and still am a bit lost in the sauce.
My end goal is to have an OP HEAVY WEAPONS CT KILLER, I currently have equipped one Rotary Cannon. please help, I have great ambition but lack the know how. may ya'll please help me with a build.

[truemane]

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