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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Warhammer 40,000 in the Playground

    I'm new to the hobby. Which army should I start?
    It really depends on what you want to play. And how your meta-game shapes up. Find out what everyone else is playing near you, and play anything not those armies for best results. Otherwise, if you're starting from scratch with no-one really to play with - or, you've got a friend who is also starting from scratch - buy the Dark Vengeance starter box.

    What's Dark Vengeance?
    Dark Vengeance contains a rulebook and a bunch of dice.

    It contains roughly 850 Points worth of Dark Angels. However, it only contains around 500 points worth of Chaos Space Marines. Of course, if you're playing DV as it's meant to be played, you're never using all of the models at once so the points difference doesn't really matter.

    However, in practical terms, the Dark Angels are only barely legal and lack enough Scoring models. And, while the CSMs are legal, they're almost 300 points behind and lack anything that packs a decent punch. You will also need the relevant Codecies for your faction as it will dramatically change the way you play the game as opposed to using the reference sheets that come with DV.

    How much does it cost?
    The Dark Vengeance box, one Codex, one other box of your choosing, and a Starter Paint Set costs you about the same as a Playstation 3 and one game*. In both cases, you'd be good to go for about a month. This author thinks of most boxes as console games, and Flyers and Land Raiders are the AAA-Title Collector's Edition game. The difference being that in this hobby you can use all your 'games' at the same time, and continuously.

    Is WH40K expensive? Yes. I suppose it is. We all know it is. But, practically speaking, it's no more expensive than any other hobby.

    *Priced in $AU where everything is more expensive - although the ratios should be the same.

    Okay, I've got everything. What next?
    Play some games. Playing some actual games, is a far, far better learning experience than anything you could glean from the internet. Although we really would appreciate some stories and how you're finding your army.
    Find out what works for you, find out what doesn't (just because the internet likes something, doesn't mean you will too). You, more than anyone know who your opponents are and what they're putting on the table. You are in the best position to find out what you need to bring to the table.

    However, if you're still stuck. Just ask.

    How many points do I need? What size board do I need?
    There are ways that you can play 200, 400 and 500 point games using altered rules. But, if you want to play the game as-is, the recommended minimum is 750.

    The game 'balances out' at 1500. Most games should be played at this level since pretty much all armies get a fair shake.

    However, in other meta-games, find out what the local tournament standard is. Most people in your area should be playing at that points level. While you're at it, here's How to write an army list.

    As for board size; a 4x4' table can accommodate up to 1250 with reasonable room left for movement. But, after that you should probably look at finding a 6x4' area. The floor is never a bad start.

    I did what you said and I still lost. What gives?
    First, this game is all about dice. Dice are random (most of the time anyway), sometimes you just get bad rolls all game and there's nothing you can really do about it. It's best to accept it, otherwise you're not going to have a very fun time.

    Sometimes your opponent can make a minor change in his list - like changing from Plasma Cannons to Lascannons. That can totally alter the flow of the game and what happens when they next play you.

    Sometimes the terrain placement is just bad (or the terrain itself is bad) and right from Deployment you can find yourself getting shot at and there's nothing you can do about it. Really, this can only stress how important terrain can be to how the game gets played.

    And, lastly, maybe you just 'did it wrong'? Maybe you used [X] to shoot [Y] when they should have been shooting [Z]. Maybe you Charged, when the better move could have been moving backwards and Rapid Firing instead? There are all sorts of ways you can be out-played. You didn't just lose because your opponents' Queens are overpowered.

    Terrain? You said this hobby was only as expensive as any other.
    Yes and no. Most of your 'starting' terrain can be household items. Books. Soda-cans. Small boxes. Whatever.

    If you look around the internet, you can also find a few tutorials on how to make some really decent-looking terrain. Made out of what you essentially would have otherwise thrown in the bin.

    Only GW Terrain actually costs you any significant money. Making your own should only cost a few dollars tops - and your time and effort.

    How much terrain do I need?
    Up to 12 pieces is the official word. However, that can get crowded pretty fast if you've got big pieces.

    A better guide is roughly anywhere between 25-33% of the board should be covered by terrain. On a standard 6x4' table, you would want anywhere between 6-8' square of terrain. It seems like a lot. But if you divide that up to 7-12 pieces, it doesn't look like much. Or you could just put a 2x3' block in the centre of the board.

    I don't like using Special Characters, and I think Allies are dumb.
    Your opponents probably don't. Special Characters are pretty powerful and there's no real reason that you shouldn't be using them if your opponents are. That's not to say that all Special Characters are good - they aren't - and certainly don't get the impression that just because it's a Special Character that you need to use it - you don't. But some of them are still good and they do make certain armies a lot better.

    However, Allies, on the other hand. Are often a required part of the game. Some armies just don't have the units required to fend off other units. Does this make the game unfair? Kind of. But, GW doesn't update their entire range at once (it's a big range), and so some units are always going to be better than others. But, allowing Allies is a big step to evening the playing field.

    So which Allies should I pick?
    This guide is very rough. But should provide you with at least a starting direction.

    I can't paint.
    Like any skill worth having, you get better if you practice. 90% of a good paint job is just brush control - how much paint you put on your brush and where you put it. The other 10% is just colour theory (yeah, it's a thing). The most important tool this author has is a $5 Colour Wheel.

    But, on a more serious note, the only real reason that you need to paint is if you want to participate in tournaments. Well, that and painted models just look better - if you've practised, of course.

    Unfortunately, painting is a practical skill, not knowledge. The only person who can get you better at painting is you. Wraith has put together how you can go about Painting your army without losing your mind.

    Which army is the best?
    That's a loaded question. It depends what points limit you're playing at (at 1500 there really isn't one). But, there is no 'best' army. Plasma beats Terminators beats Mech beats Plasma. 40K is much like Rock, Paper, Scissors. None of the armies are 'best', as each army can be countered. Some armies are better than others, but there is no 'best'.

    However, as you play the game you will notice that your Codex doesn't have the units that beat another Codex. That's not to say that you haven't won any games, and it's not to say that your opponents' armies haven't lost several games to armies that just aren't yours. It just means that your army can't beat your opponent's army with what you've got available to you. That's why Allies need to be in the game.

    Wait, so there are bad Codecies?
    Yes. The only Codex that you shouldn't really get is Black Templars. It doesn't work the way it should, and the way it does work...Doesn't. For now, if you like the imagery for Black Templars, certainly buy the models (if you don't buy the models at all, GW will think they're not selling and will think that nobody wants them and they'll keep delaying a new release) and just use the Codex for Blood Angels. Red Templars are a real thing. However, if you paint your Black Templars as Black Templars...You can't really get around it.

    Every other Codex should be usable between 1000-1500 points. But, after that you may need to delve into Allies. I wont outright say what these Codecies are, but you'll know if you've got one.

    Whoa, back up! You don't have to use the models that the books tell you to?
    Nope - the books are only rules on how to play the game, not rules on what colour models you have to buy, and you're allowed to use whatever theme of model you want in order to use them.
    If, just for example, you wanted to play a small, powerful army like Grey Knights but prefer to use 'evil' looking models like Chaos Space Marines, it is perfectly fine for you to make up some appropriate Chaos Space Marine models and use them with the Grey Knight rulebook. Just be sure to explain what you're doing to your opponent before you start playing - it's only fair to let them know if you're doing something unusual.

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    ForgeWorld
    Imperial Armour 9 and 10.
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    9. Tyrant's Legion
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    Here's a bunch of Battle Reports for you to read. Plenty of army lists in there.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-09-13 at 08:16 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Four fliers should be enough to go toe to toe with the Necron list in question, I think, especially since he has a reserves booster so his will probably show up first.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade Paladin View Post
    Four fliers should be enough to go toe to toe with the Necron list in question, I think, especially since he has a reserves booster so his will probably show up first.
    My plan is to go second if I get the choice.

    If he can keep his Wraiths in decent strength until Turn 2 - either with LoS Blockers, Cover or just not being stupid - I'm going to have problems.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Your list is reminiscent of what space wolves would look like in the Marine's Codex. Only with fliers, because fliers.

    Huh, I like that: with fliers because fliers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    My plan is to go second if I get the choice.
    Ever since my friends started fielding fliers I have adopted the same strat.
    Last edited by ZeltArruin; 2013-05-09 at 09:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Huh. Wouldn't it be better to go first against fliers, so you can get further across the board (and theoretically do more damage to the enemy before the fliers come on and start wrecking your stuff)?
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by thereaper View Post
    Huh. Wouldn't it be better to go first against fliers, so you can get further across the board (and theoretically do more damage to the enemy before the fliers come on and start wrecking your stuff)?
    If you don't have Fliers of your own, or plenty of stuff with Interceptor, sure.

    But, if I want my Fliers to beat your Fliers, then mine have to come onto the board after yours and use Skyfire. The first Fliers on the board don't get to shoot at other Fliers. Pretty simple.


    EDIT: Thinking of picking up a Guard Super-Heavy. I like the fluff behind the Shadowsword, but it's only got one gun...Anyone got any thoughts on the Bane-, Storm- and -Hammers?
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-05-10 at 03:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    I think I like the Hellhammer best myself. A bit short ranged, comparatively speaking, but ignores cover on the main gun without losing firepower looks great.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    There are guides out there for magnetising the Shadowsword kit so you can build all the models, but if you don't want to do that the best variants are the non-troop carrying ones anyway so it's just barrel swapping really.
    My personal favourites are the Banesword or the Stormsword. The Banesword can give you loooong range indirect artillery, though it is somewhat superseded by lots of Basilisks and only really good if you're on a huge table.
    The Stormsword puts down a 10" str10 AP1 ordinance template that ignores cover, and thanks to the new blast rules it's even better at killing concentrations of light vehicles.
    The Stormblade (plasma blastgun one) is also a very solid choice as the ability to fire two 7" template is good for stacking multiple hits on infantry and it is also significantly boosted by the blast weapon changes.

    The Baneblade is good, primarily for killing light vehicles and infantry blobs. Do not under any circumstances use the Stormlord.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Well, SM/IG vs. Necrons was better-than-terrible. Bad dice rolls on both sides and nobody's models would die.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    The Stormsword puts down a 10" str10 AP1 ordinance template that ignores cover, and thanks to the new blast rules it's even better at killing concentrations of light vehicles.
    The Stormsword also has the ability to swap its Heavy Flamer sponsons for more Lascannons which the other Super Heavy Tanks don't seem to have that option, instead they get to add sponsons for 100 points.

    Is S-D really that much of an upgrade over S10?

    The Baneblade is good, primarily for killing light vehicles and infantry blobs.
    Is that a priority in Apocalypse? Or is it something along the lines of "If everyone is taking Super Heavies, I'm just going to spam Infantry to make anything over S6 pointless." which skews the game towards that side of things?

    From what I've seen (again, I could be wrong, I haven't taken any significant interest in Apocalypse until now and the tournaments just seem to go on forever, and I start getting impatient whenever I play 2000+ ), the goal is to spam the field with as high an AV as you can manage and bring Formations of Land Raiders and 10+ Leman Russes.

    ...And Storm Eagles and Caestus Rams. ...I hate Alan Bligh for making Caestus Rams an actual thing that exists. AV13 Flier can suck a lemon.

    In other news...Zorg's back!!!! And Winterwind within like a month of each other. /lifecomplete


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    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-05-10 at 08:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    I never really left, but I haven't been painting or playing much lately - partly due to personal reasons and partly that my local GW got one-manned and moved, so no gaming for me, and certainly no Apoc which is all I played anyway.


    The Stormsword is unique in that it doesn't come with lascannons, only heavy flamers. This is likely a concession to the original Forge World model, as is having to upgrade the hull heavy bolter to twin linked. Personally I'd just go 2x flamer and heavy bolters. Use IG weapon teams if you want lascannons.

    StrD is only good if you're expecting to face a lot of AV13/14 since you are guaranteed the auto-pen, and most of it is AP2/1 so you get the boost on the damage chart. They also ignore cover, so are good for rooting units sitting on objectives out of cover. One recent change to the Apoc rules in IA:12 is that primary weapons all roll two dice & pick the highest for penetration, even if not ordinance.

    As for killing infantry it really depends on how the battles in your area play out. All my games had lots of infantry as my local scene was always very infantry heavy, so that's what people had. I'm talking at the 10,000+ point level here. Killing light vehicles disables transports, fast things that can get close with melta weapons, and most artillery.
    Killing infantry and disabling transports is vital in that it stops your opponent claiming objectives that win you the game. Try getting a squad of marines across a 6 foot or more board in five turns.

    In one team game I brought my Reaver, Warhound and five Tactical squads. I won because on my board section I was facing down an IG/Eldar force with almost no infantry at all. My titans absorbed the massed fire of their entire armies, vapourised scads of tanks, while my marines weathered stray artillery and captured two objectives. Same down the other end of the board where a team mate brought like a hundred guardsmen in Chimeras.

    Generally most superheavies, aside from a few (Scorpion, Shadowsword, Revenant) are better at killing non-superheavies through volume of fire. Superheavies can easily be crippled in the current rules as they can never get extra armour, so even glancing hits can immobilise them and prevent most weapons from firing. Use regular infantry weapons and just shut them down with glances.
    I've written a general guide to killing titans, and one specifically for Marines. They're a bit old, but it's all still pretty accurate and applicable to superheavies in general.

    Apoc is the ultimate 40k expression of combined arms. You need to know how to use them to win - long range fire suppresses and slows the enemy (Thunderfires are great at this), assault units clear paths for your infantry and heavy units, infantry clear objectives and camp, castled up with heavies who sally forth to counter-attack enemy assaulters.


    -


    In other news I've reviewed IA:12, rambled on about GW canning Specialist Games, and it looks like Games Day AU might not be happening this year due to insufficient staff availability.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Ooh, a review of IA12? I'd been looking for one!

    *reads* So... Would you say the portrayal of the necrons is, at least in part, a demonstration of how it is quite possible to play them off as the same horror movie monsters they were with the third edition codex?

    Definately sounds Interesting, and if I'm going to buy an IA volume, this sounds like exactly what I wanted for my necrons.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Yes, it's a return to the "red harvest", with this dynasty at least (everyone tainted in some part by the flayer). Keep in mind much like the earlier Necron Codex it's lighter on details and heavier on atmosphere. Still very good though.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Oh yes. The 3rd edition Necron codex will always have a special place in my heart. Litterally the only improvement I can think of, non-mechanically speaking, would be moving the crunch section to the back of the book (I actually prefer the more concentrated rules area of the 3rd edition codex. It's nice to have the points cost, wargear, options, and special rules for every unit all in one convenient place).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Speaking of IA, are any of the lists good(Besides the Elysians...)? The Renegades and Heretics lists are a poor excuse for IG as are the 2 Krieg ones(Zorg says the third is nifty). I've had my eye on the SM Siege Assault Vanguard list, but I'm not sure if I want my local Gaming Scene to hate me(That and I'm not very happy about building a gunline).



    Also, someone should do a 'Helpful Guide to choosing an army'

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by *.*.*.* View Post
    Speaking of IA, are any of the lists good (Besides the Elysians...)?
    The Eldar Corsairs are a glass cannon. Very similar to Dark Eldar. When they work, they work extremely well. When they don't...Well, that's a glass cannon for you.

    The Armoured Battlegroup (IG) is pretty killer on the wallet, and doesn't work very well in anything less than 1500.

    Death Korps are pretty bad, as they lack all the units that make IG any good. They can make a Blob, but that's about it.

    Elysians rule.

    Ork Dredd Mob is similar to the Armoured Battlegroup.

    The Siege Assault Vanguard for Codex Marines is OP. Who cares that they don't get Stormtalons or 'Ravens? They don't need it. It's like playing Black Templars that aren't terrible!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    CG; per the updated Apoc rules on the FW sites, I believe D is preferable to str 10 for a couple of reasons. Auto wound/pen. instant death and ignores cover about sums it up. Str D>>>>>str 10.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    So, after about half an hour trying to get my head around just how many variants there, then scouring my books to find them, I've come to the following conclusions. Anyone who knows that they're talking about, feel free to step in.

    All of them have Lascannon, and Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer sponsons.

    Baneblade: Going from the original Apocalypse book, it's probably been updated at least twice. But I don't imagine the weapon loadouts have changed any. Comes with a Baneblade Cannon, and a Demolisher Cannon. The all-rounder, I guess. In any updated version, do they have a reduced points cost, or are they allowed to swap their Heavy Bolters for Flamers?

    Hellhammer: The Hellhammer has a shorter range, smaller Marker, but could be argued that it's better because it Ignores Cover. But, instead of the Heavy Bolters, it's got Heavy Flamers. It's very similar to the Baneblade, but it's used for laughing at entrenched models. Aegis Line? What Aegis Line? But, due to it's shorter range, I imagine that it gets in range of Melta weapons quite easily which isn't fun for a Super-Heavy.

    Shadowsword: The main 'other variant' Super-Heavy. Starts with the Volcano Cannon, which has massive range, Str-D and amazingness. Then it has two Lascannons and a choice between Heavy Flamers or Bolters. Due to a misunderstanding of how Primary Weapons work, I was very wary of this one only having one gun (where the Baneblades get a Demolisher Cannon as well). However, Primary Weapons are hard to get rid of, and, even then, I'm fairly certain you can use a Tech-Priest or Techmarine to fix it? No? Once I figured out the actual rules for Primary Weapon, I'm tempted to pick this up.

    Stormlord: I suppose the main thing to say about it is it's Vulcan Mega-Bolter, which is S6, AP3, Heavy 15. In regular 40K, that'd be the bomb. Unfortunately, this is Apocalypse and S6 is kind of crap. Compared to the three above with dual S9/10 Large Blast weapons or the Str-D 120" weapon. And we're not even nearly finished with the list...

    Doomhammer: It's Magma Cannon is pretty brutal. But, again, in comparison to the Baneblade...Why?

    Banesword: The Banesword Quake Cannon trades AP2 for AP3...But Barrage. I imagine that a Super-Heavy that doesn't even need LoS is fairly game-breaking. But, in a meta-game where 20+ Terminators or Sanguinary Guard is the norm, I'm unsure.

    Banehammer: Tremor Cannon...Like a Thunderfire, but S8, AP3. Even with 60" range. Disrupts Infantry formations, and I imagine that Difficult/Dangerous Terrain is a nightmare for Titans.

    Stormsword: Basically has the exact same Primary Weapon as the Hellhammer. Same range, strength and AP. But with the 10" marker instead of 7". The difference is that the Hellhammer comes with a secondary Demolisher Cannon.

    I honestly don't know what to pick. I'm thinking of either the Shadow- or Stormsword, since now I understand what Primary Weapon means. But if anyone with proper Apocalypse can tell me the effectiveness of the Banehammer Earthshock nonsense or how good is Banesword that doesn't need LoS?
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-05-11 at 02:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    So, apparently I'll be bringing both my Grey Knights and my Eldar for that Apocalypse event in three weeks. That changes things, obviously.

    What do you all think of the Sunstorm? Will I be losing friends if I bring something like that? I don't think I'll get enough Fire Prisms to get it all the way to 6, but 4-5 definitely sounds like a probable option...

    (Also, due to the way the scenario is set up, my Eldar would be starting in Strategic Reserve - so, at least one guaranteed full power shot with no chance of losing any Fire Prisms before they get to fire, even if we should not have the first turn)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    What do you all think of the Sunstorm? Will I be losing friends if I bring something like that?
    ALWAYS bring Formations. That's what Apocalypse is for! Without Formations you're just playing 'Big 40K' and that's just what it is. Some Formations are better than others, obviously. But take 'em if you've got 'em.

    I suppose you only 'lose friends' if you have Formations/Super-Heavies and your opponents don't.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-05-11 at 04:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Also, the Sunstorm is extremely awesome thematically, so you should bring it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Sunstorm's good because it's free if you've already got the Prisms, and is is a good boost as well.

    Cheese, what size boards are you looking to play on? Opponents? Teammates?
    That can really effect what SH is best. The Banehammer is great for large boards, but not worth it at closer ranges where you'd want a Stormsword or Hellhammer. Personally I'd reiterate my support for the Stormsword, if only because you can magnetise the kit and convert it into a Shadowsword / Banehammer very easily. The Doom Hammer is only good in that it shoots liquid hot mag-ma.

    I like to use SH vehicles as stand-off weapon platforms. Pick a spot with good LoS and dominate the board from there. They're only moving 6" a turn (aside from the Crassus troop carrier) and are huge so are a pain to manoeuvre anyway. Another pair of good SH options are the Marcharius Omega (smaller Stormblade) and the Minotaur (better Banehammer).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    I always have a soft spot for the vindicator Linebreaker squadron. 10 inch str 10 ap 1 that has a 4+ chance to remove terrain features (+1 per vindicator over 3). I love having so much fire power that I can concievably remove, ruins, hills, trees, craters!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorg View Post
    Cheese, what size boards are you looking to play on? Opponents? Teammates?
    My team-mates will be Space Wolves with Storm Eagles, Njal, Logan and a whole lot of TWCs, and the usual Grey Hunter/Long Fangs spam.

    My Blood Angel team-mate is bringing Dante's Sanguine Host, which'll be Dante + Honour Guard and at 20 Sanguinary Guard. And he's also bringing the Archangel Skyforce, which is trip-Stormravens with Furiosos and Terminators. I expect Mephiston and Sanguinor will make an appearance too...Probably some Death Company too, because why not?

    My job, is to sit in the middle and reinforce either side and hold objectives.

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    Vladamir Pugh (IA10) Vaylund Cal - 235

    Vengeance Task Foce - 1780
    Lysander
    Epistolary; Terminator Armour, Storm Shield
    Chaplain; Terminator Armour
    Terminators (x10); x2 Cyclone Missile Launchers
    Assault Terminators (x10); Hammers
    Assault Terminators (x10); Hammers

    (IA9) Land Raider 'Iron Exemplar' Command Spearhead - 1635
    Cato Sicarius + Command Squad (x4 Plasma Guns) + Terminus Ultra Land Raider
    Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Gun, Multi-Melta + Land Raider
    Tactical Squad (x10); Plasma Gun, Multi-Melta + Land Raider

    Line Breaker Squadron - 445
    x3 Vindicators

    x2 Stormtalons; Typhoon Missile Launchers - 290

    (GK) Vindicare Assassin - 145

    Insert Super-Heavy - <470


    ...And that's my 5000 Point contribution to the team. I'm thinking of dropping the Vindicare for a Dark Angels Librarian with a Power Field and sitting that behind the Super Heavy...But, I'm pretty sure that's low, even for Apocalypse.

    Personally I'd reiterate my support for the Stormsword, if only because you can magnetise the kit and convert it into a Shadowsword / Banehammer very easily.
    I took a look at the kits. The 'Baneblade' makes two variants. The 'Shadowsword' kit makes the other six. I don't know how that works out to be the same price...

    The Doom Hammer is only good in that it shoots liquid hot mag-ma.
    This is why I missed you.

    Another pair of good SH options are the Marcharius Omega (smaller Stormblade) and the Minotaur (better Banehammer).
    Unfortunately, I've only got like three weeks to get this crap sorted. Since the Baneblade and Shadowsword kits are available from GW straight up, I'm more inclined to look at them first before I wait 7<14 days for a FW order to come through.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-05-11 at 08:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    The Stormblade is awesome, however.

    At any rate, I suppose the two plastic superheavy kits work out to the same price because the Shadowsword kit makes the not-turreted variants? I dunno.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    HAI GAIZ!

    I'm breaking my periodic hibernation from GiTP in order to talk about my new Word Bearers list. I've recently gotten the battleforce and some HQs, and have a friend who's playing IG. We're going to do about 750 points, but I've assembled a 1000 thousand point list for the the future. I would like some delicious PEACHes for it.

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    HQ

    Chaos Sorcerer 140 points
    ML3, Mark of Slaaneesh, Spell Familiar

    Chaos Lord 95 points
    Burning Brand of Skalathrax

    Troops

    CSM x9 149 points
    x2 plasma pistol
    Power Sword
    Rhino+Havoc Launcher 45 points

    Cultists x20 120 points
    Flamer x2

    CSM x5 75 points
    Rhino+Havoc 45 points

    Fast Attack

    Chaos Bikers x3 113 points
    Mark of Nurgle, Melta Bombs, x2 meltaguns

    Chaos Spawn x3 90 points

    Heavy Support

    Chaos Predator 140 points
    TL Lascannon, Lascannon sponsons

    Idea for Expansion
    Daemon Allies at 1500 points! Plaugebearers for objectives, Lord of Change for more sorcerous goodness, and then more troops/heavy support for my primary detachment?


    I know that's a bit bare bones, but I have to get off to work. Thoughts?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Not very Word Bearers-y. No Dark Apostle in sight.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    For chimeras, is heavy flamer or heavy bolter better, or does it depend on your army.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjaman View Post
    For chimeras, is heavy flamer or heavy bolter better, or does it depend on your army.
    As a primarily Tau player, heavy bolters have never seemed to be worthwhile. Go with the Heavy Flamer.
    Last edited by Tome; 2013-05-11 at 04:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Darthteej View Post
    I would like some delicious PEACHes for it.
    Can do. Just remember what the 'H' stands for...

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    Chaos Sorcerer 140 points
    ML3, Mark of Slaaneesh, Spell Familiar

    Chaos Lord 95 points
    Burning Brand of Skalathrax
    2 HQs in 1000 points is terrible. Drop the Chaos Lord. The only reason to have a Chaos Lord that doesn't do anything is for the Cult Troops. You haven't Marked your Lord and there aren't any cult Troops in the list anyway.

    CSM x9 149 points
    x2 plasma pistol
    Power Sword
    Rhino+Havoc Launcher 45 points
    Plasma Pistols are crap. This is an understatement. Besides, where'd you get two of them from? Only one model can have one...Unless you've also given one to the Champion?

    ...You've also severely undercosted them. By my count the squad is 172 Points. Plus the Rhino.

    Cultists x20 120 points
    Flamer x2
    But you've overcosted here. This should be 100 Points.

    I assume the Chaos Lord goes here. Unfortunately, your Chaos Lord has nothing on him that makes him scary.

    CSM x5 75 points
    Rhino+Havoc 45 points
    I don't understand what this squad is for.

    Chaos Bikers x3 113 points
    Mark of Nurgle, Melta Bombs, x2 meltaguns
    Get more. Drop a Chaos Lord or something. But otherwise, this squad is decent.

    Chaos Spawn x3 90 points
    Bad. Bad bad bad. Chaos Spawn are really, really unequivocally bad. Put them on the shelf for now until you bring in your Daemon Allies and see if you can use them as Beasts of Nurgle.

    Chaos Predator 140 points
    TL Lascannon, Lascannon sponsons
    The TL Lascannon on the turret is a huge point sink.


    Daemon Allies at 1500 points! Plaugebearers for objectives, Lord of Change for more sorcerous goodness, and then more troops/heavy support for my primary detachment?
    More Troops/Heavy for your Primary should come before you get Allies. You also have no Heldrakes and/or Forgefiends which are staples of the current Codex.

    Let's fix it!
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    Chaos Sorcerer - 125 Points
    ML3, Mark of Slaanesh

    Chaos Space Marines (x10) - 230 Points
    x2 Plasma Guns
    Aspiring Champion; Power Sword
    + Rhino; Havoc Launcher

    Chaos Cultists (x20) - 100 Points
    x2 Flamers

    Chaos Bikers (x3) - 113 Points
    x2 Meltaguns, Mark of Nurgle
    Champion; Melta Bombs, Mark of Nurgle

    Predator - 115 Points
    Lascannon Sponsons

    Total: 683 Points


    I've taken out the chaff, and fixed it where appropriate. This what most people would call your Core List. Although personally I think it's missing a few elements. Namely a Scoring presence, which is where your Daemons come in.

    EDIT: Although, that said; A Core List should never, ever lack a Scoring Presence.

    Lord of Change (ML3) - 255 Points
    Although personally I prefer a Bloodthirster.
    Plaguebearers (x10) - 90 Points
    Plaguebearers (x10) - 90 Points

    1118 Points. Now with Scoring.

    Your next problem is you have a lone Predator. That's not going to last long, and, since you have a rather large lack of anti-tank, let's add more Lascannons.

    Predator; Lascannon Sponsons - 115 Points
    Predator; Lascannon Sponsons - 115 Points

    1348 Points.

    152 Points is exactly what you need for 19 Furies of Nurgle/Slaanesh/Khorne.
    I'd go with Nurgle or Slaanesh. Nurgle gives you a screen. Slaanesh gives you Fleet, Jump Infantry with Rending. What you don't have is Flier Defense. Lose the Furies for an Aegis Line with a Quad-Gun. The last 52 Points can be used for more Cultists.

    I'd really prefer it if there were two Heldrakes in the list. But that requires dropping more models from your collection.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2013-05-11 at 07:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XVIII: "Fortune favours the careless!"

    I agree with most of what you said, except for Chaos Spawn. Nearly every guide I've read EXCEPT for yours says they're great, and I really like them for their ability to charge forward, absorb some shots, and then tie a unit up in melee.
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