Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

[Kuulvheysoon]

Emrys of Ludd is missing his point buy, anyone see it?

What on earth are you talking about?

[mattie_p]

What on earth are you talking about?

Do you want me to take a screen cap? I still have it open

[Piggy Knowles]

Emrys of Ludd is missing his point buy, anyone see it?

Far as I can tell, that's 32 PB - four 14s at 6 apiece, two 12s at 4 each comes out to 32.

[mattie_p]

Far as I can tell, that's 32 PB - four 14s at 6 apiece, two 12s at 4 each comes out to 32.

Well, now it is. Look at edit time

Don't mind me, just doing my judging thing.

[Thurbane]

Some excellent entries this time around - IC never fails to surprise me with interesting and unique builds!

My honorable mention is going to be a tough choice, I'm very torn between two right now...

Also, I'm a little surprised that there was only one Dragonfire Adept.

Makes me think, wonder if you could make a decent ToT with a base of Ambush Drake racial class and DFA levels?

[Vaz]

I looked at it, but the Racial Class is usually limited to those with a listed LA, giving you a way to playfrom earlier on. Ambush Drake is considered la-- so i figured that the hit in elegance wasn't worth it, while the DFA's beguiling influence, and dark vision invocations combined with the fivefold breath of tiamat did everything the si granted but better.

[Thurbane]

I'm sure we've had at least one Ambush Drake entry before? Did it get an elegance hit for the LA -- issue? Can't remember which comp it was now...

[sabelo2000]

Interjection: *DING!*

[IMG][/IMG]

Just leveled up IRL... now a SIXTH-level Healer!

[Callin]

Grats


;ashdf;kashdf

[thethird]

Could someone explain to me what's going on?

[Kuulvheysoon]

I looked at it, but the Racial Class is usually limited to those with a listed LA, giving you a way to playfrom earlier on. Ambush Drake is considered la-- so i figured that the hit in elegance wasn't worth it, while the DFA's beguiling influence, and dark vision invocations combined with the fivefold breath of tiamat did everything the si granted but better.

I'm sure we've had at least one Ambush Drake entry before? Did it get an elegance hit for the LA -- issue? Can't remember which comp it was now...

WotC made a Racial Class for the Ambush Drake here, giving it 7 RHD and 0 LA.

[Vaz]

I had seen the class; and originally looked at using it; I wasn't happy with its introduction andnindication as being used as a way for DM's to introduce weaker Dragons as opponents.

Combined with the base Draconomicon having an LA--, and EVERY other racial class having an LA.

I known i personally would penalise elegance for it, and that is a good indication of when not to use something. I too could remember that it was used but couldn't find the build.

[Deadline]

Wow, some great entries there. And some fun fluff as well. I'm feeling like I may have missed some minor things that could have made both of my entries way better. I still feel pretty good about both entries, but there are some here that make me a bit nervous. Also, this is the first round where I've seen some builds that seem to be ignoring/disregarding the SI fluff and just going for power. That's certainly a tactic that one could take, I'm just surprised to not have seen it all that much in the last couple of IC comps.

Exciting stuff, and good luck to the judges this time around.

Edit: And I can see some things that folks either didn't qualify for, or misread. Now I feel a little better about my choices.

[Korahir]

I find myself looking over my build again and again looking for possible errors. Don't know why but i have the strange urge to find any errors before the judge does although i'm fully aware it doesn't change anything.

[Akal Saris]

I know the feeling, Korahir :P

First off, I love the Dead Mists! Anyone who can work Thrall of Jubilex into a build has my axe :)

Abrasa Kul and some of the other bard builds were also great - I like to see optimized builds that are easily playable.

Sadly, I couldn't find the time to do up a proper entry :( I was fiddling with a build that was: Dread Necro 5/Wearer of Purple 7/ToT 8. Fear optimization (3 fear auras), some tie-in's between necromancy and dragons with wearer of purple, and breath weapons to supplement Dread Necro's lack of direct damage and AOE's. Sadly, the BAB and Will save requirements didn't work out well enough to salvage the build :(

My other build idea was similar to Zeddicus: Ex-Paladin 5/Barbarian 2/Blackguard 3/ToT 10. Would have made good use of the SI, but I just didn't feel that inspired by it.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I know the feeling, Korahir :P

First off, I love the Dead Mists! Anyone who can work Thrall of Jubilex into a build has my axe :)

I know what you mean - I loved Lakota Windsong (Bladesinger) that Piggy Knowles entered, for the sole reason that it used Dragonmark Heir. And this time, there's Sypro (by [REDACTED]) for using Dispassionate Watcher of Chronepsis and Dead Mists (by [REDACTED]) for using Shadowcaster.

[Venger]

I'm sure we've had at least one Ambush Drake entry before? Did it get an elegance hit for the LA -- issue? Can't remember which comp it was now...

the damned drake used it in shadowdancer and snagged HM. he tied with pumpkinhead for votes, but got a better score

I too desperately wanted to build a wearer of purple and write a dotty old lady with a red hat, but couldn't make the prereqs work with tot. plus it's just so much better than tot.

is anyone speculating on the next SI while we're waiting for judgings? i'm feeling scarlet corsair

[A_S]

I desperately, desperately want to do something with Master Transmogrifist.

[Vaz]

My first idea was a Duskblade 6/Ur-Priest 2/ToT 10/Additional Turn pools x2, using the Dragon as a Mount (using Skill Bonuses to get massive ride check bonuses for the AC), while splashing around with Arcane Strike and Death Devotion to deal immense damage on a charge.

My other idea was an Necropolitan Unseelie Fey Hexblade/Cleric with Rebuke Dragons ACF/Blackguard/Skald with Doomspeak. Rebuke the Dragon into staying still, then hit it with a reduced save Dominate, then use it to ride around on, but I couldn't really find enough justification for the dips or the two templates, neither a large enough Rebuke modifier and in the end it was simply there so I could force a large enough Dominate check with a -16 to checks while having a Charisma bonus of +5 for a total DC of effectively +41.

Which while good, can't really match up to fooling the dragons into actually lowering their Will Saves.


As to speculation; surprised nobody went i"nb4 Vaz says Slime Lord". I'll have a look when I get back home at what I'd like to see. Possibly a Psionic one. Atavist is something I really never see mentioned.

[thethird]

I would like to give the Eye of Xanathar a try, I don't know if it is a good ingredient though.

[The Viscount]

Oh dear. That class is cruelly bad. It seems like it could do. Scarlet corsair looks interesting. Perhaps we could do that next if we don't do gnome giant slayer.

[Deadline]

Well, I'm still in favor of some slime or ooze related class.

[123456789blaaa]

I desperately, desperately want to do something with Master Transmogrifist.

Seems a little too powerful for IC. I know that it loses a lot of caster levels but for a limited list gish (Suel Arcanamach for example) it actually seems really good.

<snip>
As to speculation; surprised nobody went i"nb4 Vaz says Slime Lord". I'll have a look when I get back home at what I'd like to see. Possibly a Psionic one. Atavist is something I really never see mentioned.

Atavist is a theurge class though. Would we see that much variation in entry classes?

I would like to give the Eye of Xanathar a try, I don't know if it is a good ingredient though.

I made a thread on that one here actually. Not many people replied though...

I think it would make a pretty good ingredient. Flexible entry requirements and some interesting powers. Definitely one of the stronger PRC's we've had on here too so it would be nice for a bit of a break.

[GreenSerpent]

To be incredibly evil, I'll say the name of The Class That Shall Not Be Named...

FORSAKER (Masters of the Wild).

Anyone who can optimise a build out of that will have my sword. And bow. And axe.

[A_S]

Seems a little too powerful for IC. I know that it loses a lot of caster levels but for a limited list gish (Suel Arcanamach for example) it actually seems really good.

Yeah, but don't you want to see what the Playground can do with Infinite Variety? I mean, not every SI is required to be cripplingly terrible, is it?

[Piggy Knowles]

Yeah, but don't you want to see what the Playground can do with Infinite Variety? I mean, not every SI is required to be cripplingly terrible, is it?

We've had a few that were quite good. Divine Crusader and Geomancer both come to mind.

[mattie_p]

Just a little note on progress here from this judge.

I have completed an initial review of all 23 builds, making notes as I went along on anything that struck me, things I wanted to investigate, whatever.

I am now doing my detailed judging of the builds, having completed 8 so far in the first three categories (Originality, Power, Elegance). After I finish all 23 in those three categories, I'll review one final time and assign UoSI scores.

So, progress.

[Deadline]

Awesome mattie_p, thanks for your hard work!

[Callin]

mattie_p dont mess around

[Vaz]

Atavist is a theurge class though. Would we see that much variation in entry classes?

Yeah, Monk and Soulknife normally but it doesn't require too much investment. You could theoretically entr it wit only a single Soulknife Level, and 9 other class levels, so it's a free world out there. Of course, a Monk and a Soulknife do get the most mileage out of it, but they both suck, and should really have been combined anyhow.

Edit; flaming nora that was quick. I've not even got around to reading them all yet. :O.