A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #481
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Callin View Post
    but I like the Ninja Spy...
    I also like ninja spy. I think we could get some use out of it, though unfortunately the leap of the clouds ability doesn't work in 3.5.
    Last edited by The Viscount; 2013-06-02 at 08:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Iaijustu Master; we all know how "good" that could be.

    Ninja Spy, Shadow Scout, yeah, no, they're all terrible.

    Yeah
    Iaijutsu master would be godly. I don't understand your use of scare quotes. It's got x stats to y bonuses all over the place. however, I don't think it's likely since it presents a certain difficulty in qualifying that would likely limit originality from our dishes.

    I love ninja spy, I've used it many times to great effect. I'd be delighted to cook with it as an SI. obviously, not gonna talk about tactics too much ;) but suffice it to say I can foresee great variety in that round's dishes.

    shadow scout doesn't really give class features, so I can agree there.

    honestly, I'd be pretty happy with anything from OA. bayushi deceiver, blade dancer, anything. their classes are pretty good.
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  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Funny enough, the other possible SI for this round was from OA.

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    Funny enough, the other possible SI for this round was from OA.
    Tease


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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    I meant "good" as in for SI wise.

    It's killer BAB requirement, non-class skill, alignment requirement AND 3 feats means you're looking at only 2 possible entries, and one of them is 3.0 updated in 3.5 to lose the relevant class skill IIRC.

    And I'm going to say Witch Hunter was the alternate SI; I had considered using it for the SI help, but the alignment killed it; otherwise it was decent; Detect Evil, Cha to Saves, Smite (+4 to hit and 2*Class Level to damage) with immunity to fear and a bonus to others. But it requires non-evil. Ah well.

  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    I meant "good" as in for SI wise.

    It's killer BAB requirement, non-class skill, alignment requirement AND 3 feats means you're looking at only 2 possible entries, and one of them is 3.0 updated in 3.5 to lose the relevant class skill IIRC.

    And I'm going to say Witch Hunter was the alternate SI; I had considered using it for the SI help, but the alignment killed it; otherwise it was decent; Detect Evil, Cha to Saves, Smite (+4 to hit and 2*Class Level to damage) with immunity to fear and a bonus to others. But it requires non-evil. Ah well.
    ah, I see. can't disagree with you regarding iaijutsu master. But I'm counting 3 possible entries, not 2.

    witch hunter would be fun. at least it'd block out the most obvious entry to the class, so we'd see a little more creativity
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    But I'm counting 3 possible entries, not 2.
    I'm count 4-6 entries with a few more if you get inventive.

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I've never read OA, never had a chance to. Of course, since I don't own it if we has something from there I'd have to find it really fast if I want to contend. The only two ways I won't be continuing in this is if I don't have the proper book or if I really really don't like the SI. The first can be taken care of hopefully with some devoted looking around, while the second is pretty rare. I admit to hiding from Blackguard or Shining Blade of Heironeous. but other than that nothing comes to mind that I despise. Well, if I have a rush of classwork, than that might stop me from competing too. But it would have to be real bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


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  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    I...actually can't see a single similarity between the two (aside from 7/10 BAB). Eye of Xanathar is a stealth focused PrC that advances sneak attack, gives a bunch of Beholder-themed SLA's, and lets you use a bunch of divination effects/enhanced senses. ToT is a dragon-themed gish PrC that gives casting advancement, breath weapons, and buffs to social skills/fear goodies, then lets you dominate dragons as a capstone.

    Am I missing something?
    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Fluff-wise, both prestige classes seem to be dedicated around you being the thrall of some big, classically evil beastie.
    Piggy got what I meant. I should have been more specific.

    Talon of Tiamat gets the use of each of the classic chromatic dragon breath weapons. Eye of Xanathar gets the use of beholder eyes.

    Is it a good IC ingredient? Yes. Should it be the next ingredient? Probably not.

    Anything out of Oriental Adventures would be wonderful by the way . . .

  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    Piggy got what I meant. I should have been more specific.

    Talon of Tiamat gets the use of each of the classic chromatic dragon breath weapons. Eye of Xanathar gets the use of beholder eyes.

    Is it a good IC ingredient? Yes. Should it be the next ingredient? Probably not.

    Anything out of Oriental Adventures would be wonderful by the way . . .
    Anything out of OA would have to have some clarification on the 3e/3.5e rules interactions as they pertain to this contest, methinks.
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  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Indeed it would, though most shouldn't pose too much of a problem. Interesting to see how many people like OA here.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Anything out of OA would have to have some clarification on the 3e/3.5e rules interactions as they pertain to this contest, methinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Indeed it would, though most shouldn't pose too much of a problem. Interesting to see how many people like OA here.
    I believe it is Dragon 318 that updates OA to 3.5. Just have that particular article become ok for competition.

    [ducks from things being thrown by people who hate Dragon magazine]

  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I liked Dragon Magazine but its banned from the table I play at.

  14. - Top - End - #494
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by dysprosium View Post
    I believe it is Dragon 318 that updates OA to 3.5. Just have that particular article become ok for competition.

    [ducks from things being thrown by people who hate Dragon magazine]
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  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    My first thought for this Challenge was a Wildshape Mystic Ranger with sword of the Arcane order and Dragon Wildshape 5/ToT 10/ Natures Warrior 5. Then I found out Mystic Ranger ACF is Dragon Mag material... I was devastated.

  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Sword of Herioneous or whatever it is, per chance?
    I hope not. I think SoH would be a terrible SI. It's class features are just so boring and horrible and easily recreatable. At least Shadow Sentinal had stuff going for it that you couldn't get just by spending some gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    I'm a little worried that we're going to see a certain PrC in the near future that, erm, I really don't want to see. It was mentioned in another thread, but I won't say much more than that for fear of egging on the chairman.

    The one PrC I've been looking forward to for a while is Thief of Life. Eye of Gruumsh is another that I think would be fun, as would Shadow Sun Ninja or Hellreaver.

    I also agree that somewhat more powerful PrCs can bring their own type of fun too, though.
    The entry requirements are extremely flexible so there's be a ton of variety in builds.Life sense, Borrow Vigor, and Steal Immortality are interesting.I think people could build around them though the rest of the class features are pretty meh IMO. I know that Borrow Vigor not stacking means you can't put multiple points into one essential pool...but could you put the essential points into different essential pools?

    Eye of Gruumsh... other than the Blinding Spittle ability its class features seem pretty boring. Do you like it because of the fluff or is their something I'm missing?

    Shadow Sun ninja could be interesting...lots of monk characters though.

    I think Hellreaver would be too good. I've actually seen it recommended multiple times for healer tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    I'd be interested in seeing what the playground could do with blade dancer. It's not great, but it could certainly do something with the right build. What does the playground think?
    I wholeheartedly support Eye of Gruumsh and Hellreaver, though the latter might be a bit too good.
    I don't think blade dancer would be that great. Besides the acrobatics bonuses all of it's class features are 1/day and weak. You can't really build around that. Plus their are a bunch of other classes that get acrobatics bonuses as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    Please...by all that is merciful...no Shining Blade of Heironeous! I couldn't do a thing with that class, and I have really tried! I play primarily low-op games and that class would be majorly underpowered there.

    If I may, I'd put my vote behind Dread Fang of Lloth or the Pale Master. Just two classes I'd like to see done. Not that I expect my input to really count much.
    Dread Fang of Lolth seems a little too similar to Nightsong Infiltrator what wit being a rogue like PRC that grants bonuses to allies.

    Man it seems like all I'm doing is explaining why other peoples suggestions would make bad SI's. It's only fair that I give a suggestion. I think Insidious Corrupter (from Drow of the Underdark) would make a really nice SI. Very unique class featuues and relatively open entry requirements. Plus an interesting challenge in that most limited list spellcasters (which you can use for the limited spellcasting advancement) don't really have enchantment spells (which this PRC partially focuses on).

  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I actually played an insidious corrupter, I have always found that PrC lovely.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  18. - Top - End - #498
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    PaladinGuy

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    Never looked into it much, but I like DotU so I'd be behind this idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


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  19. - Top - End - #499
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    3.5 desperately needs a way to overcome mind-affecting immunity for enchanter types, the way Dread Witch bypasses fear immunity. If a core level 1 spell can shut down your character's entire schtick, it's a problem. Other than that, I love Insidious Corrupter.

  20. - Top - End - #500
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Okay, I have heard that very many times but I still don't get it. What spells is this that blocks mind-affecting effects in core, at 1st level?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


    Awesome Holy Knight Haluesen avatar done by the uber skilled Grinner!

  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Protection from Alignment

    "The barrier blocks any attempt to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person)."

    (yeah, the deflection bonus is not worth it, trumping a whole school of magic, that is worth it.)
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-06-03 at 05:09 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    Okay, I have heard that very many times but I still don't get it. What spells is this that blocks mind-affecting effects in core, at 1st level?
    Protection from Evil.

    EDIT: Too slow!
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2013-06-03 at 05:09 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Don't worry, I buffed my initiative to the extreme.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Huh. Yeah that actually does sounds pretty crappy. What is up with that? I'll have to curtail it somehow in my campaign. I don't think my players will think to use it, they don't spend the time I do looking over spells and I didn't notice that detail. Still, yeah that is pretty messed up. There's just no love for enchanters. (Actually one of my favorite types of magic).

    Hehe yeah that was insane speed. I didn't expect a response so quick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


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  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    I admit to hiding from Blackguard or Shining Blade of Heironeous. but other than that nothing comes to mind that I despise. Well, if I have a rush of classwork, than that might stop me from competing too. But it would have to be real bad.
    we've done blackguard already, so no fear of getting that again. shining blade is something of a running joke here. there's no real danger of getting that as an SI (but jut in case, I am strongly opposed to it as an SI)

    Quote Originally Posted by A_S View Post
    3.5 desperately needs a way to overcome mind-affecting immunity for enchanter types, the way Dread Witch bypasses fear immunity. If a core level 1 spell can shut down your character's entire schtick, it's a problem. Other than that, I love Insidious Corrupter.
    I couldn't agree with you more.

    insidious corruptor would be pretty cool.

    any love for mountebank next time?
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    any love for mountebank next time?
    I got very close to submitting a Mountebank-based build in this very contest... I didn't, and I didn't post it as an alternate build because I don't want to spoil it in case it ever comes up as a secret ingredient
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  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Repeating a course could be interesting too... I for example have some neat ideas for another round of assassin and not being able to use them saddens me.

    Another class that might be weird is legacy champion.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Don't worry, I buffed my initiative to the extreme.
    Are you a Battle Maiden with lots of ranks in ride per chance sitting on your horse as you type?

  29. - Top - End - #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    we've done blackguard already, so no fear of getting that again. shining blade is something of a running joke here. there's no real danger of getting that as an SI (but jut in case, I am strongly opposed to it as an SI)
    Are you trying to jinx everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    I got very close to submitting a Mountebank-based build in this very contest... I didn't, and I didn't post it as an alternate build because I don't want to spoil it in case it ever comes up as a secret ingredient
    Now, was it a Mountebank (Dragon Compendium) or a Mountebank (Complete Scoundrel) based build? That is the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Repeating a course could be interesting too... I for example have some neat ideas for another round of assassin and not being able to use them saddens me.

    Another class that might be weird is legacy champion.
    I'm still super sad I never got my act together for Dervish. That was the first time I ever really paid attention to these challenges, and I was trying my best to come up with a burrowing based build that would use dervish dance to pop out from the ground, make a full attack, and pop back in. It never came together, and I ended up just holding off until the next contest, Divine Crusader, which was my first-ever IC entry (Vald Lokkur).

    While I love Urpriest's build (which is one of my favorite all-time IC builds), and don't think I would have won, I still sometimes kick myself for not pulling off the burrowing dervish dancer, though.
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