A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    We could do a special round with no judging, just people voting and gentleman's agreement to not vote for oneself posting builds using ingredients of past editions.

    Also... on being a battlemaiden I am a Techie actually, but I know of readied actions.
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-06-03 at 06:00 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Is it time for suggestions already?
    Now, what would be a good ingredient?
    Could it be that we see a repeat of
    A race-specific class?
    Read between the lines, good friends
    Note the subtle suggestion, and
    Understand that if it were the right one
    My suggestion would be placed in a heartbeat!

    ...there's two choices, and only one is, IMO, ingredient-worthy. The other one is just too good. I leave it to you to figure out which, but I don't say much or else I lose the edge.
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  3. - Top - End - #513
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Is it time for suggestions already?
    Now, what would be a good ingredient?
    Could it be that we see a repeat of
    A race-specific class?
    Read between the lines, good friends
    Note the subtle suggestion, and
    Understand that if it were the right one
    My suggestion would be placed in a heartbeat!

    ...there's two choices, and only one is, IMO, ingredient-worthy. The other one is just too good. I leave it to you to figure out which, but I don't say much or else I lose the edge.
    Two choices for a potential future SI?

    Also, do you think you might judge again in a future comp? I really enjoyed all of your judging's and while I understand that you were somewhat soured on judging the last time you judged, it would be really awesome if you judged again (I actually sent you a pm asking this. I dunno if you got it though). You were always very detailed and I liked that you suggested improvements.

  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Master of Flies; Savage Species
    Scaled Horror; Savage Species
    Berserk; Deities and Demigods
    Justicia of Taiia; Deities and Demigods
    Soldier of Light; Deities and Demigods
    Crimson Scourge; Cityscape
    Wyrm Wizard; Dragon Magic
    Darkrunner; Lords of Madness
    Ashworm Dragon; Sandstorm
    Scorpion Heritor; Sandstorm
    Knight of the Iron Glacier; Frostfell
    Defiant; Planar Handbook
    Doomlord; Planar Handbook
    Fatemaker; Planar Handbook
    Visionary Seeker; Planar Handbook
    Metamind; Expanded Psionics Handbook
    Psion Uncarnate; Expanded Psionics Handbook
    Flayerspawn Psychic; Complete Psionics
    Soulbow; Complete Psionics
    Zerth Cenobite; Complete Psionics
    Great Rift Skyguard; Races of Faerun
    Sun Soul Monk; Waterdeep
    Slime Lord; Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting
    Shapeshifter; Oriental Adventures
    Shintao Monk; Oriental Adventures
    Iaijutsu Master; Oriental Adventures
    Knight of the Rose; Dragonlance Campaign Setting
    Demonologist; Book of Vile Darkness
    Disciple of Baalzebul; Book of Vile Darkness
    Mortal Hunter; Book of Vile Darkness
    Thrall of Demogorgon; Book of Vile Darkness
    Thrall of Grazz't; Book of Vile Darkness

    Thrall of Orcus; Book of Vile Darkness
    Warrior of Darkness/Anointed Knight; Book of Vile Darkness/Book of Exalted Deeds
    Beloved of Valarian; Book of Exalted Deeds
    Skylord; Book of Exalted Deeds
    Swanmay; Book of Exalted Deeds
    Troubadour of the Stars; Book of Exalted Deeds
    Totem Rager; Magic of Incarnum
    Umbral Disciple; Magic of Incarnum
    Shaper of Form; Dragon Compendium

    From my lists of "favourite prestige classes". Removed the extremely high powered ones, I think, as well as the IC entries. Bolded for favourite favourites.

  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Venger's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by T.G. Oskar View Post
    Is it time for suggestions already?
    Now, what would be a good ingredient?
    Could it be that we see a repeat of
    A race-specific class?
    Read between the lines, good friends
    Note the subtle suggestion, and
    Understand that if it were the right one
    My suggestion would be placed in a heartbeat!

    ...there's two choices, and only one is, IMO, ingredient-worthy. The other one is just too good. I leave it to you to figure out which, but I don't say much or else I lose the edge.
    since incarnum restricts us to 3 (realistically 2) methods of entry, I fear we would see little variety among dishes.

    gnome giant slayer would be horrifying.
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  6. - Top - End - #516
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Vaz has an interesting list.

    IIRC, there's a trick - possibly there are a couple tricks - with Metamind that result(s) in infinite power points, which could make it unsuitable to this environment.

    Ashworm Dragoon is a fun PrC that might be too popular/powerful (for a melee) to consider. . . but it is fun.

    Shapeshifter. . . *shudder*. Similar concerns as with Master Transmogrifist, IMHO.

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  7. - Top - End - #517
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Well I just went looking through a couple of books and I need to ask, has there ever been a wildrunner iron chef? I just really like the look of this class.
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  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Yeah, there's at least a half dozen suggestions on that list which will never make it as an SI while I'm chairing (including, as Amph deduced, Ashworm Dragoon and Metamind (especially because I can't stop thinking of Dominant Ideal Ardent 10/Metamind 10 with Practiced Manfester)).

    And I'm totally with you there, Venger - I wanted to saddle you guys with Witchborn Binder, but the requirement of "meldshaper level 6th" is what killed it for me.

    @Haluesen: There's links to all of the GitP Iron Chef Challenges in the OP (including naming the featured prestige class).

  9. - Top - End - #519
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Alright I checked it, and RotW's Wildrunner is not there. But rather than just saying what I think is a cool class, can people tell me what traits make a good SI? I just know nothing too powerful. That's about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


    Awesome Holy Knight Haluesen avatar done by the uber skilled Grinner!

  10. - Top - End - #520
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    And I'm totally with you there, Venger - I wanted to saddle you guys with Witchborn Binder, but the requirement of "meldshaper level 6th" is what killed it for me.
    Hmmm, does meldshaper level have the same other-levels-count-half thing that Initiator Level in ToB has? I don't think so -- I think I'm just mixing it up with the rules for meldshaper level for Shape Soulmeld. But hey, at least non-incarnum classes could qualify for this PrC at Level 12? ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    Alright I checked it, and RotW's Wildrunner is not there. But rather than just saying what I think is a cool class, can people tell me what traits make a good SI? I just know nothing too powerful. That's about it.
    The obvious ones you're missing are (1) is 10 levels long, and (2) hasn't already been used in an Iron Chef round.

    There's also a concern about making them classes that are more open to qualifying for in a variety of ways, although some previous rounds have basically ignored that guideline anyway.
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  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Venger's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    Alright I checked it, and RotW's Wildrunner is not there. But rather than just saying what I think is a cool class, can people tell me what traits make a good SI? I just know nothing too powerful. That's about it.
    in addition to not being too powerful:

    actual class features to progress are a must as well. if it doesn't give anything (ex: mystic theurge, eldritch knight only give casting) without class features, there's nothing for us to showcase.

    also, various options to enter the SI must be present. if there's only one way to enter the class (ex: blighter requires you be a druid of 5th or higher level) then we can't possibly showcase our creativity in qualification.

    there are other ways for a class to be overly restrictive to enter than just what classes you can enter as (feats, skills, etc may be restrictive too. ex: dungeon delver requires a jaw-dropping 60 skill points of a decidedly roguish bent to enter in addition to several junk feats, and trapfinding, making it an exceedingly poor choice for a secret ingredient.)

    a "foothold" or something redeemable about the class that you can synergize with an external class, feat, template, something you can use to springboard into another class, etc. (ex. justiciar gives nonlethal sneak attack which stacks with sneak attack from other sources, its tracking abilities work with other tracking-oriented builds, etc)

    it also really helps if the fluff text isn't extremely restrictive (ex: hand of the winged masters and drow judicator have a somewhat proscriptive hand in determining what your character's backstory will be about)

    also, classes that have 1/day SLAs instead of class features tend to be very difficult to really build on (ex: drow judicator)

    noncasting SIs give a greater variety in entry since you don't need to worry about caster levels or spells.

    it has to be 10 levels, this is a rule. it can't be more since we'd have too much in common, and it can't be less since it wouldn't really be the focus at that point

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Hmmm, does meldshaper level have the same other-levels-count-half thing that Initiator Level in ToB has? I don't think so -- I think I'm just mixing it up with the rules for meldshaper level for Shape Soulmeld. But hey, at least non-incarnum classes could qualify for this PrC at Level 12? ...
    unfortunately, there is no such rule (though that's a delightful suggestion for a houserule) [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Venger; 2013-06-04 at 01:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  12. - Top - End - #522
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Huh, thank you for all the information. All that said, I actually now really suggest wildrunner as a potential class. In basic it is 10 levels and hasn't been done yet.

    I'm not sure how it rates as far as power but it does have quite a few interesting class features. Most of them are just interesting a bit but the primal scream is quite an interesting ability and gets a fair number of per day uses.

    Entry is relatively simple. One feat (that I admittedly do not care for, but ah well), 4 skills, fairly lose alignment. The only thing is the required elf or half elf, but there are still a lot of ways to make that interesting too. All in all it leaves a lot to the imagination.

    Though honestly, I am not sure what kind of synergy this class has with other things. No caster levels, good BA, okay skills, and primary class feature is mostly stand alone, though what it improves does leave some options. It is a class I can easily imagine being useful, unlike my previous entry where my use of the SI just wasn't essential.

    And lastly the fluff is not restrictive at all, basically it is just "likes nature". Like druids but in a different way. All in all this class leaves a lot of choices for interesting dishes.

    Ah but of course the last word on the matter is the chairman, this is well understood. Still was my little pitch too much? I tend to not like annoying others online sometimes.

  13. - Top - End - #523
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger
    <various complaints about Drow Judicator>
    So, you're saying I wasn't your favorite person that round?
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2013-06-04 at 05:14 AM.
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  14. - Top - End - #524
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I doubt Wildrunner would be next (or soon) since we have recently had Bladesinger which also has the elf/half elf requirement.

    It does look like an interesting class though.

    In other news, I can't wait for judging!

  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    There have been 2 SI recently that was race based. The Bladesinger and Urban Soul. I honestly dont see us getting another one for a short bit.

  16. - Top - End - #526
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    Huh, thank you for all the information. All that said, I actually now really suggest wildrunner as a potential class. In basic it is 10 levels and hasn't been done yet.

    I'm not sure how it rates as far as power but it does have quite a few interesting class features. Most of them are just interesting a bit but the primal scream is quite an interesting ability and gets a fair number of per day uses.

    Entry is relatively simple. One feat (that I admittedly do not care for, but ah well), 4 skills, fairly lose alignment. The only thing is the required elf or half elf, but there are still a lot of ways to make that interesting too. All in all it leaves a lot to the imagination.

    Though honestly, I am not sure what kind of synergy this class has with other things. No caster levels, good BA, okay skills, and primary class feature is mostly stand alone, though what it improves does leave some options. It is a class I can easily imagine being useful, unlike my previous entry where my use of the SI just wasn't essential.

    And lastly the fluff is not restrictive at all, basically it is just "likes nature". Like druids but in a different way. All in all this class leaves a lot of choices for interesting dishes.

    Ah but of course the last word on the matter is the chairman, this is well understood. Still was my little pitch too much? I tend to not like annoying others online sometimes.
    you're quite welcome.

    your pitch isn't over the top at all. in fact, it made me look up wildrunner (I couldn't remember its features and when I saw it was different from what I remembered, I realized I'd been confusing it with peregrine runner) and you know what? I think it's a pretty cool class for IC. I'd definitely be behind including it for the next SI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    So, you're saying I wasn't your favorite person that round?
    I walked out with a bronze in the end, so it looks like you knew better than I did
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my new sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New book coming soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  17. - Top - End - #527
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I absolutely loathed Initiate of Pistis Sophia while I was cooking, but I feel oddly tough after successfully building one. I wonder if this is how chefs who manage to serve fugu without killing anyone feel...
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  18. - Top - End - #528
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    So, you're saying I wasn't your favorite person that round?
    I certainly liked you that round, Amph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    I absolutely loathed Initiate of Pistis Sophia while I was cooking, but I feel oddly tough after successfully building one. I wonder if this is how chefs who manage to serve fugu without killing anyone feel...
    Ugh. I hated IoPS.

  19. - Top - End - #529
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I think everyone hated Initiate of Pistis Sophia.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Ok. You have me interested in that class. Give me a tick.


    *Reads*


    Ok. Wow. So, I'm actually laughing. I'm sorry, nothing can save that class. What were the writers doing? Eating one of Ozzy Osbourne's pot cakes?


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  21. - Top - End - #531
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Wow, an improved Monk, which even makes use of their class skill of concentration.
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  22. - Top - End - #532
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Also fun is that there's only really one or two ways to complete the class pre-epic. It requires a feat with Ki Strike (Lawful) as a pre-req, which you don't get until level 10, so unless you've got Vow of Poverty, you can't even qualify for the class until ECL 12. (Monk of the Enabled Hand gets it to you a tiny bit earlier, but that's it... pretty much every single entry used MotEH, VoP or both to get in.)

    Gah, I'm getting annoyed just thinking about that one again!
    Last edited by Piggy Knowles; 2013-06-04 at 04:37 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #533
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I just took a look at the class, and the associated competition. And just...what?! I mean I know my op-fu is rather basic compared to some of the greats here, but even I see that class for what it is. Why would someone design such a thing? I wasn't even part of that competition and I am horrified! Poor poor contestants...

    And then I watched that video. That both made my day and made me question life, the universe, and everything at the same time.

  25. - Top - End - #535
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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I actually had a pretty good build idea for IoPS, but didn't get time to get it done, it was a much more tongue in cheek entry based on this

    But the fact there were very few ways of qualifying for the PrC really did make it a pain, and I think I got discouraged from entering because I was pretty certain EVERYONE would use Monk of the Enabled Hand!
    Last edited by FyreByrd; 2013-06-05 at 03:13 AM.
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  26. - Top - End - #536
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Any updates, judges? Only a few more days left.

  27. - Top - End - #537
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Im sure they are close. They both said maybe friday. So its down to the wire!

  28. - Top - End - #538
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Plugging away, chugging away, I think I can I think I can...
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  29. - Top - End - #539
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Only four more, Rolf!

  30. - Top - End - #540
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    Ahh, Kayzan caught up to me due to my trip! Blasted family responsibilities
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

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