A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Just read through most of the judging over my morning coffee. Again, hats off, Kazyan - I do NOT envy you and mattie_p judging this one. And here I thought Urban Soul was tough to judge

    Seems like the consistently toughest category on this one was Use of the Secret Ingredient. No surprise there, as that's what I had the hardest time with when I was cooking. (Actually, I think that's the sign of a good IC ingredient - ones that really make you work to get actual use out of their abilities.)

    Quote Originally Posted by nedz View Post
    Thanks for the hard work Kazyan.
    And since no one has done a table yet
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    {table=head]Place|Build|1st Judge

    1st|The Dead Mists | 15.75
    2nd|Suspect 1 | 15.75
    3rd|Vox Dracul | 14.25
    4th|Ornixen | 14
    5th|Krumbalt | 13.5
    5th|Halyee Tsosysss | 13.5
    7th|Emrys | 12.75
    8th|Doc D'oc | 12.5
    8th|Zeddicus | 12.5
    8th|Leide Magora | 12.5
    11th|Firnesquis | 12
    12th|The White Whale | 11.75
    12th|Abrasa Kal | 11.75
    14th|Calsus | 11.5
    15th|Doraanar Gireen | 11.25
    16th|Sigismundo Celine | 11
    16th|Tristyn R'yr | 11
    18th|Spyro | 10.75
    19th|Violet Ruskin | 10.5
    19th|Wyrmlord Kranzon | 10.5
    19th|Aleksander | 10.5
    19th|Lady Gray | 10.5
    23rd|Majeed Azar | 8.25

    [/table]
    Dead Mists and Suspect 1 should be tied for first, rather than 1st and 2nd.
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  2. - Top - End - #572
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Dead Mists and Suspect 1 should be tied for first, rather than 1st and 2nd.
    Oops — fixed.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


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  3. - Top - End - #573
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Disputes -

    Quote Originally Posted by The White Whale
    You noted that the build didn't make use of keen senses,. My mention of the White Whale navigating murky waters wasn't just fluff; Stormwrack pg 11 notes the reduced illumination water imposes, and how low-light vision works against these restrictions. Darkvision allows for seeing during night raids without revealing his position in the water.

    I expected a brownie point for panicked in a round, but I understand as there were better wintimidators than I.

    I understand if the keen senses use seems too minor, just want to make sure I communicated myself well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vox Dracul
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan
    I see no use of the immunity, the senses are unused but at least don't overlap anything. Breath weapon...Entangling Exhalation as the only and obvious use does not impress me. Frightful presence is part of your pile of debuffs, and you would actually have use for dominate dragon--turning passersby into meatshields--except that it's almost moot because Polymorphing lasts for just a few minutes, and passersby will have terrible HP. I'm glad you actually found something to do with it, though. Yay!
    You may have missed them in the shuffle of judging all the things!, but I do use more than you touch on here.

    I make specific mention of how his energy immunity is used (aside from the obvious use), albeit for a very niche purpose (he is immune to the extra fire damage from his granted Dragonfire Inspiration, in case his allies turn on him). But when dealing with evil backstabbers, it can be very useful. Admittedly, it's not a terribly good use of it.

    I did more to enhance his breath weapons with the Stunning Breath spell. Again, not a huge thing to miss, but I did go beyond just the ridiculously good Entangling Exhalation.

    And lastly, I do make use of the granted weapon proficiencies by upgrading his ranged weapon to a better martial version, as mentioned in the level breakdown at level 10.

    You already touched on my use of Bluff and Dominate Dragon with the Polymorph issue. And you are correct that it is of limited use due to duration (14 minutes per cast) and HD of random schlubs. Admittedly, PaO would have been better for this (if I could have squeezed in 8th level spells), or some other long-term type changing magic that I may have missed.

    These were all small things, but I wanted to make sure you didn't miss them in the shuffle. At any rate, thank you for slogging through and judging so many entries!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Gray
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan
    You probably could have just gone Warlock 2/Battle Sorcerer 8 and gotten the same things from the class, using Beguiling Influence as an invocation. Nothing else is anything more than haphazardly stapled onto a 3/4 BAB half casting chassis.
    One thing I forgot to note, Lady Grey uses no base classes at all. While I won't dispute that Beguiling Influence could easily replace Voice of the Dragon, the SI gives her earlier access to pretty much everything else she could want for a higher age category dragon (better spellcasting, a more damaging breath weapon, and frightful presence being the three big things she gains from the SI).

    I'm just kicking myself for forgetting about Loredrake, because that would have been a nice power boost for her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ornixen
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Elegance: 2.75
    Nooooo--just because Dragon Breath lets you use your racial breath weapon every 1d4 rounds doesn't mean you get to ignore the limitations on Talon of Tiamat's breath. Don't go counting the two breath weapons as separate when you're dealing their cooldowns and then turn around and say Dragon Breath doesn't discriminate between breath weapons. Secondly, unfinished savage progressions are ugly and make DMs squint. I also feel like the build is...cluttered. There's too much going on. While your presentation of the build is well-done--love the formatting, by the way--explaining how it works could use more than a once-over.

    On the plus side, everything fits very well together into a draconic theme, moreso than the other entries. So, points for that.
    First of all thanks for the judging, the comments on the use of dragon breath were the harsher ones but it is not a big deal, it sounds more sincere than hurting. It is also nice to have a piece of praise just a line below it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Breath; Races of the Dragon pg. 98
    You can use your breath weapon as often as a normal dragon.
    Prerequisites: Half-dragon, 6 HD, breath weapon.
    Benefit: You can use your breath weapon every 1d4
    rounds.
    I find the lack of racial disturbing, but it isn't there, and thus I used it. I can totally agree with it needing a houserule, or an errata. But as it is it works. Ornixen only has a breath weapon (the one granted by Talon of Tiamat) thus Dragon Breath can only be applied to that breath weapon. (I am clarifying this just in case)

    The presentation was cut a bit down, there were quite a lot more things going on, and I felt it was to long of an entry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5
    Using Fearful Empowerment to extract +CL from dominated dragons is a clever use of the ability. The spellcasting advancement is used as always. Nothing to do with the immunities (you mentioned it, but no clever use) or keen senses, but frightful presence adds onto your fear bonanza, and you like your breath blasting. Half of Voice of the Dragon is used to good effect. This is overall an interestingly exploitative build--have a little bonus for the particularly interesting use of Dominate Dragon.
    I feel that maybe I wasn't able to make the points more clear in that regard, sorry

    • The other half of Voice of the Dragon (i.e. Bluff) is used with Draconic Persuasion, dragonthrall and full ranks in bluff. Overall Ornixen has a +47 to his bluff checks before equipment.
    • Immunities are used in conjunction with the fact that it is a half red dragon, thus most people would probably attack him with cold magic. It is not a really clever trick though.


    Incidentally one of the things that was cut on the final reformating might be relevant here, but since I actually forgot to include it, I will not mention until the end of the Iron Chef

    Another minor nitpick don't take this one too hard; I feel like Ornixen could totally stand up in optimized play on tier 3-4 classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calsus
    First off, I originally had a notation that was omitted, the Otugh Hole level was completely arbitrary. I stuck it at 2 simply so that I could look up and go "Yep, it's there".

    The DMM/Fell Animate feat levels should be reversed, it's a remnant of an earlier incarnation, where more Metamagic feats than just Fell Animate were in use. I didn't notice it until it was posted.

    While you're right, his Dominate trick doesn't come online till 20th, it's a relatively smaller part of his army. It got more attention because it was more complex than others. At much earlier levels, he can still kick about with Planar Ally, and he can get it cheaper thanks to Thurmaturge, and Undead Draconic Minions, as Fell Animate should have been taken at the earlier level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suspect 1
    First off, this is NOT a dispute, I am extremely happy about the scores Kazyan awarded me. But, since you asked about my 1-level DFA dip:

    This was to eliminate any grey area in the metabreath feat rules. As you're aware, to qualify for a metabreath feat with "time between breaths expressed in rounds." One interpretation of ToT's breath weapon says that this works. The other interpretation I received from some peer review, is that ToT DOES NOT have a breath weapon useable every xdx rounds: It has FIVE breath weapons, each useable ONCE per day. The fact that the ToT must wait xdx rounds in between each use of any breath weapons is simply an added restriction.

    Therefore: I take DFA1, which has a breath weapon at-will, otherwise expressed as "every 1d1 rounds" to make sure I qualify for metabreath feats (since these are the meat, potatoes, and hot sauce of my build) and no judge can throw out my build based on the stricter interpretation.

  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    The Dead Mists: Agreed. Since you're turning a penalty into a plus, +1 to elegance.

    Lady Gray's first dispute: Agreed on all points. +1.25 to Elegance.

    Lady Gray's second dispute: Er, Warlock 2/DFA 8 also gives you the things you want. You do kind have a point about improved dragon'ing, but that seems like your process behind building, not the result--while it's neat and all to be a Wyrmling+, it's just kind of a cool sidenote. It doesn't seem like that would affect your scores in any category.

    Sigismundo: Agreed on 2) and 3). +0.5 to UotSI. Regarding 1), though the choppy prgression may have been the only way not to get in trouble with the mutliclassing rules, the fact is that you're picking the lesser of two uglies, and it's my job as Simon Cowell to point out all of the uglies.

    The White Whale: I see. +0.5 to UotSI.

    Vox Dracul: Becoming immune to your own allies' weapons seems so terribly niche that it doesn't seem to count--it assumes they'll still be benefiting from your DFI when they hit you. If your allies get dominated in combat, just stop designating them as allies for the purpose of bardis music. So, fir the immunity to be useful, they have to be dominated, come before you in initiative, and go over to hit you first in one round--when you're probably the one in the back. The other disputes, I agree with. +0.5 UotSI.

    Ornixen: That Dragon Breath thing is still a little debatable, because you can already use it once every 1d4 rounds, and the uses/day is a seperate restriction...but rules dubiousness is less severe than a flagrant rules violation, so +0.5 to Elegance. Agreed on the immunity, voice of the dragon, and the dispute on the power score. For the power score, I was getting into the groove of judging in a tight window of build competence, and your build actually is an outlier. +0.25 to UotSI and +0.75 to Power (you're about on par with Dead Mists).

    Suspect 1: DFA's breath weapon is not expressed as 1d1, technically, but it's all rules nitpicks that aren't affecting your score.

  5. - Top - End - #575
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Since Nedz is offline I'll update the table

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    {table=head]Place|Build|1st Judge
    1st|The Dead Mists | 16.75
    2nd|Suspect 1 | 15.75
    3rd|Ornixen | 15.5
    4th|Vox Dracul | 14.75
    5th|Krumbalt | 13.5
    5th|Halyee Tsosysss | 13.5
    7th|Emrys | 12.75
    8th|Doc D'oc | 12.5
    8th|Zeddicus | 12.5
    8th|Leide Magora | 12.5
    11th|The White Whale | 12.25
    12th|Firnesquis | 12
    14th|Abrasa Kal | 11.75
    14th|Lady Gray | 11.75
    15th|Sigismundo Celine | 11.5
    15th|Calsus | 11.5
    17th|Doraanar Gireen | 11.25
    18th|Tristyn R'yr | 11
    19th|Spyro | 10.75
    20th|Violet Ruskin | 10.5
    20th|Wyrmlord Kranzon | 10.5
    20th|Aleksander | 10.5
    23rd|Majeed Azar | 8.25
    [/table]


    Please check my numbers.
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-06-07 at 06:36 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  6. - Top - End - #576
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Since Nedz is offline I'll update the table

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    {table=head]Place|Build|1st Judge
    1st|The Dead Mists | 16.75
    2nd|Suspect 1 | 15.75
    3rd|Ornixen | 15.5
    4th|Vox Dracul | 14.75
    5th|Krumbalt | 13.5
    5th|Halyee Tsosysss | 13.5
    7th|Emrys | 12.75
    8th|Doc D'oc | 12.5
    8th|Zeddicus | 12.5
    8th|Leide Magora | 12.5
    11th|The White Whale | 12.25
    12th|Firnesquis | 12
    13th|Sigismundo Celine | 12
    14th|Abrasa Kal | 11.75
    14th|Lady Gray | 11.75
    16th|Calsus | 11.5
    17th|Doraanar Gireen | 11.25
    18th|Tristyn R'yr | 11
    19th|Spyro | 10.75
    20th|Violet Ruskin | 10.5
    20th|Wyrmlord Kranzon | 10.5
    20th|Aleksander | 10.5
    23rd|Majeed Azar | 8.25
    [/table]


    Please check my numbers.
    Sigismundo should be 11.5, not 12. Everything else looks accurate as far as I can tell.
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  7. - Top - End - #577
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Thanks corrected, I guess I like that entry
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Thanks corrected, I guess I like that entry
    MODDOKH APPROVES. MODDOKH WILL NOT BURN YOU NOW.

  9. - Top - End - #579
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Can we keep Modokh for future competitions? It would be great to have him give a commentary of some builds or secret ingredients.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  10. - Top - End - #580
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    New rule: all judges must submit their judgings in the voice of MODDOKH.
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  11. - Top - End - #581
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I support this rule.
    Is it just me, or is this reminding anyone else of MODOK?
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    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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  12. - Top - End - #582
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    I support this rule.
    Is it just me, or is this reminding anyone else of MODOK?
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    Ha! That MODOK would also be an acceptable judge.
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    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    I support this rule.
    Is it just me, or is this reminding anyone else of MODOK?
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    Yes! That's the first thing that popped into my head.

    I've decided to give my honorable mention to Krumbalt - tauric kobold riding dog put it over the line for me!

    There were a few others I really wanted to give it to as well - Doc’ D’doc, Emrys of Llud and of course the Dead Mists. Great entries all around.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Oh yeah, hey, honorable mention. My HM vote goes to Emrys of Ludd.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Iron chefs, it doesn't look like I'll be able to post judging today, but I will do it as early as I can tomorrow. I do promise you'll have at least 24 hours to complain critique comment on my scores. I will be available to respond in a timely manner.
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    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Hey, I can wait. As long as the judgings get here, it's all good to me.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Viscount View Post
    Hey, I can wait. As long as the judgings get here, it's all good to me.
    I am too far along to quit now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

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    Good luck Mattie. I can't wait for the reveal
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Good luck Mattie. I can't wait for the reveal
    You're in luck, here it is.

    I'll say a couple things here, but for the most part the judging should speak for itself. I did apply some standard, across-the-board bonuses and penalties. These include spellcasting/manifesting/mysteries/invocations, BAB, and in particular for the UoSI, Breath DC and Frightful presence DC. Other than that, a lot of what I did was my impressions and a bonus or penalty for them. Now, here we go!

    Wyrmlord Kranzon 15.25
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    Originality: 4.25

    Hobgoblin gaining the full half-dragon template - wow. +1 With wings +.5 Paladin is not unexpected for 1/2 casting advancement -.25

    Power: 3

    Only gets 2nd level spells -.5 All the LA hurts your BAB (13) -.25, racial breath weapon means you can breathe all day +.25 dragon wings provide mobility for both breath weapons +.5 but shame you didn't really enhance it with metabreath -.25 dragonscale husk adds to your resistances +.25

    Elegance: 4

    Very elegant as far as flow, Paladin -> ToT with no stops in between +1 You don't qualify for reinforced wings at level 3 (you need a fly speed, you have a glide speed, not the same thing - swap with improved dragon wings) -.25 Story particularly helps me see the character +.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4

    Breath DC 24 (baseline), but you took half-dragon and a feat to help +.25, Frightful Presence (FP) DC is 26 +.5, bluff/intimidate are maxed +.5, arcana ignored -.25, Dragonthrall essentially ignored -.25, dominate dragons mentioned but ignored -.25, Has a definite ToT flavor though +.5




    Aleksander 12.5
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    Originality: 2.75

    Barbarian wasn't used by anyone else +.25 binder dip + hellfire warlock is a known trick -.5

    Power: 3.75

    Equivalent of 6th level casting +.5 13 BAB -.25 A lot of investment into eldritch blast, 6d6 + 6d6 hellfire + 2d6 mortalbane + 2d6 vitriolic + eldritch glaive +.5 But what happens if you run into something with SR? -.25 fear stacking +.25

    Elegance: 2

    OK, the wording on eldritch glaive is wonky. Take it to the dysfunction thread. (no penalty for this one) Using EB while raging, though, is a different story.
    You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention. Such actions include casting a spell, concentrating on an active spell, directing a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity.
    Using an SLA requires your full attention and therefore needs concentration. Even doing something like riding a mount while invoking requires a concentration check. We can discuss separately... but... -.25 Your skills are off, you should be gaining 5 (2+int mod of 3) per ToT level, you are gaining 6 -.25 Dips all over. They all give you something, but between barbarian (which doesn't work) human paragon, and binder, I can't help but feel there is an easier way to get eldritch glaive rocking -.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4

    Breath and FP DC are both 24 (baseline), bluff and intimidate are maxed and supported +.5, arcana ignored -.25, dragonthrall used +.25, dominate dragon used +.25, has a nice flavor to it +.25




    Tristyn R'yr 12
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    Originality: 2

    Sorcerer and Abjurant champion were expected -.5 Really seems kinda vanilla. There's nothing really unique or original in this build, in my opinion -.5

    Power: 3.5

    BAB of +15, not too shabby, but for a gish you really want your fourth iterative (no penalty) 7th Level spells +.5, but you don't tell us what they are, which makes it hard to see how it all ties together -.25 Abjurant champ does add to power, though, as you have arcane boost to use your spell slots on +.25

    Elegance: 3.75

    Qualified for everything, it seems +.25 build flows very naturally (Sorc -> ToT -> Abj Champ) +.75 Seems bland though -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.75

    Breath DC 21 -.5, FP DC 24 is baseline, skills are maxed but not really pumped +.5, dragonthrall ignored -.25, dominate dragons ignored -.25, boring, but it has about the right flavor +.25




    The Dead Mist 13 13.75
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    Originality: 3.75 4

    Necropolitan was not used by anyone else +.25, neither was thrall of jubilex +.25, elder evil devotion? What the… +.25 And I owe you points for shadowcaster +.25

    Power: 4

    5th level mysteries (baseline) BAB 13 -.25 Gaseous form shenanigans +.25 Especially combined with trickery devotion +.25 undead immunities +.25 Stacking of debuffs/fear +.5

    Elegance: 1.75 2.25

    How are you getting enough ranks in escape artist? None of your classes get it as a class skill -.25 This qualifies now via Draconic Heritage: Tarterian p103 Dr Mag. Just how many things do you serve? Dragons, elder evil, Jubilex, cleric of something? Elegance, my friend, is a thing -.5 Serving an elder evil is known cheese -.25 (on the other hand, at least you took know (rel) to be aware of the elder evil. No bonus or penalty) Taking the necropolitan template involves a level loss. You gained level 3 twice. In my opinion, this is functionally equivalent to buying off LA. -.25 Draconic heritage requires Sorcerer 1st -.25 The competor correctly points out that Dragon Magic p 18-19 allows this. Despite the shenanigans, the build is a thing of beauty +.5, except for the cleric dip. Looks like all it bought you is trickery devotion (rebuking oozes is a wash, you keep your cleric level for that since nothing stacks with it) -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5

    Breath DC 20 -.5, FP DC 26 +.5, bluff and intimidate maxed and supported +.5, arcana ignored -.25, dragonthrall supported +.25, dominate dragon supported +.25, you have a lot going on and it looks like you have a nice build in spite of ToT, not because of it -.25




    Abrasa Kul 11.25 11.5
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    Originality: 2.5

    DFI Bard is expected -.75, but you did some interesting things with it (only snowflake in the competition, combat panache) +.25

    Power: 3.5

    Snowflake Wardance + DFI + arcane strike is a nice combination +.5, 5th level spells get no bonus or penalty, feat focus on melee but don't get 4th iterative (no penalty or bonus)

    Elegance: 2.5

    I'm not really seeing what the fighter dip gives other than the bonus feat. Had you taken silverbrow human as race, you could have skipped the dragontouched feat and saved the dip, keeping the feat (I guess you get MWP as well, but do you need it?) -.25 Technically don't qualify for song of the heart at level 3 (a little reshuffling would have made it legal) -.25 I am removing this penalty in the interest of the good natured spirit of the competition. Feat focus is about 1/2 melee, 1/2 bardic music, and then entangling exhalation is thrown in there, doesn't seem focused -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 25 +.25, bluff/intimidate maxed but not pumped +.25, arcana is a wash, don't really use dragonthrall to your advantage -.25, basically ignored dominate dragons -.25, does have the right kind of feel though +.25




    Majeed Azar 9.25
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    Originality: 3.75

    Xeph was an interesting choice +.25, psychic rogue + shadowmind are more so +.5 Where are you going with this?

    Power: 2.25

    3rd level manifesting -.25 no powers known listed (and you only get 8) so I can't check for synergy/assistance -.25 Craven and 4d6 SA is pretty good for a SI that doesn't advance SA +.25 but you have no stealth skills or means to hide like darkstalker in order to use them consistently -.25 several feats invested don't really seem to make you stronger as a character (xeph celerity is a poor man's haste, other characters can pull it off for rounds/day, not 5 times a day, and get other bonuses as well)-.25

    Elegance: 2

    Sorry, but without a written adaptation section, Talon of Tiamat will not advance psychic rogue -.25 using spells as powers won't work for you (check out STP Erudite for help if you want to do that, but that would be cheese) - no penalty, just a heads up Does not qualify for practiced manifester (requires 4 ranks in psicraft) -.25 Yes, you squeezed it in Talon of Tiamat, but it doesn't help you be a manifester, and there is really no synergy between your other classes and the SI at all -.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 1.25

    Breath DC 21 -.5, FP DC 21 -.5, bluff and intimidate maxed but not enhanced +.25, arcana ignored -.25, dragonthrall ignored -.25, dominate dragons ignored -.25, honestly doesn't seem like you tried to use the class at all -.25




    Lady Grey 12.5
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    Originality: 4

    Steel dragon was unexpected (by me at least, apparently not by everyone) +.5 A couple dips no one else used (I like Soul Eater) +.5

    Power: 3.25

    4th level spells (baseline) BAB 14 (baseline) You really focused in melee direction, but see below, the trick doesn't work like you think it does, to your detriment as opposed to your peers -.25 But you do freely bestow negative levels despite that +.5 Unfortunately I really don't have other comments here, you have intimidate ranks but don't really fear stack, you don't really do much with your breath, and (in my opinion) you wasted class levels and feats (see below) so that's it

    Elegance: 2.5

    I have to ask, you pick up darkstalker and mindsight, they're nice and all, but I don't really see how they mesh with your build (esp darkstalker. You don't have HiPS and no ranks in hide or MS to speak of) -.25 you fail to account for Dragons as PCs within Draconomicon, p 141-144 (which require you to take dragon hit dice and level adjustment as you age, a mention would have been nice) -.25 "Using a supernatural ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise." (from the SRD) Soul eater does not indicate otherwise (no penalty, just clarifying that you only get 1/round) Qualifies for everything +.25 Soul eater 4 would have given you a stackable enhancement bonus to basically everything, why not go two more levels instead of your spellsword/mindbender levels of questionable utility? -.25 for those dips

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.75

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 26 +.5, bluff used and supported +.25, intimidate is a wash, arcana ignored -.25, dragonthrall mostly ignored -.25, dominate dragon supported +.25 (but not as quickly as you would have liked), not really focused on the SI. What are you doing in the class? -.5




    Vox Dracul 15.25 15.75
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    Originality: 3

    Bards were very popular -.5 Sublime chord is a known trick on half-progression PRCs. -.25 Evangelist is a nice touch +.25 Fear stacking without Dread witch? +.5

    Power: 4.5

    7th level bard/sublime chord spells +.5, DFI + melodic casting is a boost, along with your other songs +.75 I don't think the polymorph trick works, as polymorph doesn't change creature type (no penalty, warning). Fear stacking is a thing, and you can do it to some degree throughout the build, including a non-cheesy use of celerity to dominate dragons +.5 BAB of 13 -.25

    Elegance: 4.25

    Does not qualify for evangelist by alignment (Tiamat is LE), or changed alignment during leveling. Either way, -.25 Corrected, no penalty Additionally, now earns the bonus for qualified for everything +.25 The two dips you had were smart and really boosted your power and utility +.5, and even with the dips it really flowed and made sense +.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 25 +.25, bluff and intimidate maxed and supported +.5, arcana ignored -.25, dragonthrall not really used, dominate dragon is thought out +.5, overall I like it +.25




    Suspect 1 11.75
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    Originality: 3.5

    Really focused on warlock, and you took a lot of breath feats no one else looked at +.5

    Power: 3

    There is a reason everyone else took Entangling Exhalation if they went with breath feats-.25 That said you have some decent ones +.25 Invocations (baseline) BAB 13 -.25 Have some actual UMD +.25

    Elegance: 2.25

    Looks like you just picked up DFA in order to get dragontouched as a bonus feat. Go Silverbrow human? -.25 (or maybe for breath stuff? DC is real low as DFA, and at will is not measured in rounds) Please list your invocations separately, like spells known, it would be really helpful in the future Really kinda boring though, really didn't sell me on anything -.25 weapon focus requires +1 BAB, you don't have that at level 1 -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 26 +.5, bluff/int maxed +.5, arcana is a wash, dragonthrall not used -.25, dominate dragons not really used -.25, honestly not really seeing what ToT is doing for you, it doesn't hurt, but doesn't really help -.25




    Doc D'Oc 11.75 12
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    Originality: 3

    Bards were very popular -.5 Interesting choice with anima mage +.5

    Power: 3.5

    5th level bard spells (baseline) BAB 12 -.25 Anima mage + persisted spell +.5 Grabbed some interesting domain choices there which help +.25 Item dependent? You talk about them a lot in the context of buffing bluff/diplo -.25 How do you concentrate? -.25 Lots of good combos listed, you've thought about this +.5

    Elegance: 2.75

    I'm not seeing the synergy between your powers and creating undead -.25 No, not even with the refluff of tiamat to afflux. There is no synergy (now if you had refluffed to a different draconic diety, maybe, but just no) Technically don't qualify for improved binding at level 3. Swap bard 2 and Binder 1 and you'd be safe (see PHB p 58-59 for the reason, there is a specific order) -.25 I am removing this penalty in the interest of the good natured spirit of the competition. do not qualify for arcane disciple (no spellcraft ranks) -.25 build otherwise flows organically +.5 Am I missing something? How are you getting extra spells known? -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.75

    FP DC 26 +.5, breath dc is tied for lowest at 19 -.75, bluff is used and supported +.25, intimidate and know arcana were not -.5, Dragonthrall used +.25, lots of thought into dominate dragons +.5, honestly though, with the undead focus and anima mage ToT is just slowing you down -.5




    Sigismundo Celine 14
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    Originality: 3.25

    Bards were very popular -.5, swashbuckler, not so much +.25, and an elf no less, serving aerenal +.5

    Power: 3.75

    3rd level bard spells -.25, BAB 15 (baseline), fear stacking +.25 Diplo/bluffomancy +.5 decent feat choices to boost your power and utility +.25 Int focus for skills and swashbuckler bonuses +.25 DC is fairly low for exhaled barrier, won't help as much as you might like -.25

    Elegance: 3.75

    How are you devoted to evil dragons yet serving aerenal? Gotta have priorities, fluff mismatch -.5 Looks like you qualified for everything +.25 Build flows naturally, +.5 MODDOKH LIKE MODDOKH. +.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.25

    Breath DC 21 -.5, FP DC 24 is baseline, bluff and intimidate maxed and supported +.5, knowledge ignored -.25, dragonthrall is used (just how are you mounting the dragons, anyway?!?) +.25, dominate dragons is mentioned in passing, c'mon, work for it -.25, story ties it all together with the feel I'm looking for +.5




    Emrys 13 13.25
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    Originality: 4

    Knight was unexpected +.25, as was death delver +.25 A mounted combat focused melee character was rare in this competition +.25

    Power: 3.5

    Good synergy with riding and a dragon steed +.25 For someone hanging around dragons, grabbing fear immunity is a must +.25 Just missed 4th iterative attack - almost mandatory for a gish type (no penalty) rebuke 11/day for three empowered spells, not bad +.25 Unfortunately, you can only cast a single 4th level spell a day, and two 3rds. - .25

    Elegance: 3.5

    Do not qualify for martial study at level 1 -.25 Nor for extra turning -.25 I am removing this penalty in the interest of the good natured spirit of the competition. (swap Combat reflexes with martial study, and extra turning with empower spell, you would have been fine) Build otherwise flows very naturally +.75

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.25

    FP DC 24 is baseline, Breath DC 21 -.5, bluff and intimidate used but not maxed +.25, knowledge ignored -.25, definitely uses dragonthrall +.25, addresses dominate but not how to win at it consistently -.25, seems like the build succeeds in spite of not because of ToT -.25




    Calsus 10.5
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    Originality: 2

    Bard was popular and expected -.5 Savage Bard -> Ur-Priest is known cheese -.75, Thaumaturgist is rarely used +.25

    Power: 4

    Well, you get 9th level spells +1.75 Planar allies (of all kinds) require payment, which means any commands you give your called creatures via dominate dragon would be against their nature, giving them a new save each time. Planar ally spells also cost xp, no mitigation strategy -.25 geas has a 10 minute casting time, you think the dragon is just going to sit there waiting to be dominated, while you are supposed to be negotiating with them? bestow curse is a standard action, but touch range, and allows a will save against DC 20 even with +6 wis item, beatable -.25 Inspire awe only lasts during your performance + 1 round, so you're not getting spells off during that time -.25 BAB 14 (no penalty)

    Elegance: 2

    Oytugh Hole is valued at 3k gp, not buying it at level two -.25, you don't qualify for dmm at level 6 (can't rebuke, no metamagic known then, just swap with fell animate and it would have been legal) -.25 Stealing spells from the gods and serving tiamat (a god) is a fluff mismatch -.25, I don't see what the thaumatugist dip is getting you other than a wasted feat and improved ally (which you aren't using anyway as you only have 12 ranks of diplomacy) -.25, I don't really see the purpose behind apprentice performer -.25, you really need to use greater planar ally, not binding (sorc/wiz spell), which hurts you in the long run, and curse/geas on callings is known cheese -.25 The positive is that everything is sequential and leads from one to another +.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.5

    Breath DC is lowest at 19 -.75, FP DC 25 +.25, Bluff and Intimidate maxed and supported +.5, knowledge ignored -.25, DT ignored -.25, dominate dragon well thought out +.5, With ur-priest in there, you really have to answer why Tot. I don't think you do as it slows you down -.5




    Firenequis 14.75
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    Originality: 4

    Raptoran? I like it +.5, I also like swashbuckler +.25 And you are somehow the only Suel Archanamach +.25

    Power: 3.25

    5th level spells (baseline) BAB 16 +.25 (Yay!) You took knowledge devotion, normally a big boost, but have almost no skill ranks -.25 flight + breath stuff +.5 But there is a reason a lot of others took entangling exhalation -.25

    Elegance: 4

    Qualified for everything +.25, Very nice flow from one class into another +.5, something is really nice about a raptoran serving dragons +.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5

    Breath DC 27 (highest! I'm including heighten here) +.75, FP DC 23 baseline, don't really use intimidate or knowledge -.5, bluff maxed and used +.25, didn't really address how to dominate dragons -.25, ignores dragonthrall -.25, really feels like a Tot though +.5




    Zeddicus 12.75 13
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    Originality: 3.5

    Hexblade was not expected (as suboptimal), neither was blackguard +.5

    Power: 3.5

    4th level blackguard spells (baseline), 1st level hexblade spells (no adjustment), Fourth iterative attack for a gish, +.5 There is some fear stacking going on with hexblade curse + aura of despair + frightful presence + imperious command +.5 Not really seeing what 2 feats (shadow jaunt + sudden recovery) are doing for you -.5

    Elegance: 2.5

    You don't have the wisdom to cast any blackguard spells -.5 You do qualify for everything +.25 I really don't see the point in blackguard other than BAB. It ate three feats when you could have gone into Abjurant champion or something -.5 This has been adjusted to -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.5

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 23 is baseline, Intimidate check and bluff are high with supporting structure +.25 (hard to tell without listing final ranks), knowledge not used -.25, Dominate dragons is addressed +.25, Have enough ride ranks to make use of Dragonthrall +.25 Does feel like a Tot +.25




    Spyro 12.25 12.5
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    Originality: 4

    Steel dragon was unexpected (by me at least, apparently not by everyone) +.5 Urpriest is known cheese -.5 Some other interesting choices in there… +.5 especially as there is new cheese from Dispasionate watcher of chronepsis +.5

    Power: 4.5

    BAB 11 -.25 9th level spells +1.75 but they come onboard only at level 20 -.5 Stacking the bonuses against dragons, are we? +.25

    Elegance: 2

    Qualified for everything +.25 FR-specific dragon with Eberron-specific crunch (loredrake) -.25 Urpriest steals spells from dieties, including tiamat and chronepsis (two dieties you claim to serve) -.5 Even mentioning PAO shenanigans gets a stern warning from MODDOKH. you fail to account for Dragons as PCs within Draconomicon, p 141-144 (which require you to take dragon hit dice and level adjustment as you age, a mention would have been nice) -.25 Why the spirit shaman dip? You lose most of the benefits as soon as you ur-priest, looks like it is just to qualify by will save, and there were other options for that -.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2

    Breath DC 23 is baseline, FP DC 24 is baseline, Intimidate check and bluff aren't really used -.5, Use of knowledge +.25, Dominate dragons is addressed and slightly boosted, not enough for a bonus though, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25 I'm not seeing why a metallic steel dragon would be a ToT, story didn't quite sell it -.25, I have to ask, why ToT? it only slowed you down to get the most out of Dispasionate watcher, which really seems the focus of your build (that and PAO) -.5 thematic feats +.25




    Krumbalt 15
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    Originality: 4

    Tauric? Really?? Out of the blue +1. And flying? +.5 Sorc was expected, dread witch as well -.5

    Power: 3.75

    Strong investment in wings + two breath weapons means mobility and damage at range +.5 Fear resistance via dread witch to boost your spells is nice +.25 Standard fear stacking with full intimidate ranks +.25 5th level spells get no bonus or penalty BAB 13 -.25

    Elegance: 3.25

    Does not meet pre-requisites for practiced spellcaster (requires 4 ranks spellcraft) -.25 Tauric template is kinda wonky, while you correctly chose to take 3 Monstrous humanoid HD, you missed the apparent stealth LA in the sample creature (or maybe it is an NPC only template). Either way a note or adaptation would have been nice -.25 Of note, I believe the breath feat you want is Draconic Breath from C Arc, not Dragon Breath from RotD. (No penalty) Build flows naturally, no real dips/poor choices +.75

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4

    Breath DC 24 is baseline, FP DC 26 +.5, Intimidate check and bluff is maxed with supporting structure +.5, I'm calling knowledge a wash, Dominate dragons isn't really addressed -.25, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25 Does feel like a Tot +.25, spell selection is thematic +.25




    Leide Magora 15.5
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    Originality: 2.75

    Bards were very popular -.5 Sublime chord is a known trick on half-progression PRCs. -.25 Not including dread witch while fearstacking +.25 Very music focused +.25

    Power: 4.5

    8th level spells as bard / sublime chord +1 Lyric spell plus extra music is useful +.5 BAB 13 -.25 Fear stacking effects +.25

    Elegance: 4

    Base class, ToT, prestige class, harder to get more elegant +.75 Qualified for everything +.25 Even mentioning PAO shenanigans gets a stern warning from MODDOKH. While suggestion via epic bluff checks has merit by RAW, it requires DM/NPC adjudication, not useful here where DM RP of NPCs may vary by table. I'd prefer if you just smack them hard (no penalty, no bonus)

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.25

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 26 +.5, Intimidate check and bluff is maxed with supporting structure +.5, I'm calling knowledge a wash, Dominate dragons by bluffing the stupid dragons +.25, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25 Does feel like a Tot +.25




    The White Whale 11.75 12
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    Originality: 4

    Darfellan! +.25 Scaled Horror! +.25 Fighter levels! +.25 Oh my! +.25 (Avenging executioner)

    Power: 3.5

    BAB 15 (baseline) 4th level spells [Scaled Horror] (baseline), you are going into TWF with only 2d6 sudden strike, how are you denying dex to AC? -.25 Now I know. Clarified. You do stack fear with NoN, Imp Command, and can even do as a move action +.25 Shocktrooper is good +.25, why don't you have pounce? Your build is crying out for it! (esp with bloody blade, more chances for it to take effect) It would have been a boost, as it is, no bonus, no penalty

    Elegance: 2.25

    I am almost positive that darfellan does not have the aquatic subtype, disqualifying you for Scaled horror -.25, you don't have the wis to get a bonus spell for 4th level, meaning without items you can only cast 3rds -.25 Seems a shame you didn't go to zhent fighter 5 for extended intimidation and dungeoncrasher at 6 (you also missed out on BAB 16 for a power bonus) -.25 I'm not saying I know how I would have built this, it just seems unfocused. Maybe fig 6, barb 1, scaled 1, aveng exec 2, tot 10, something like that. Seems like you would have gotten more bang for the buck, IMO

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.25

    Breath DC 22 -.25, FP DC 23 is baseline, Intimidate check and bluff is maxed with supporting structure +.5, don't really address knowledge -.25, Dominate dragons capstone is not used effectively -.25, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25 Interesting use of the underwater tactics, but don't really see how it meshes - doesn't feel like a ToT -.25




    Violet Ruskin 14.75
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    Originality: 3.75

    Went a lot of different directions than your peers, not going to enumerate +.75

    Power: 3.75

    4th Level spells (baseline) BAB 14 (baseline) fear stacking +.25 stacking cha to saves +.25 Extra Talon of Tiamat via Uncanny Trickster +.25

    Elegance: 3.5

    Yeah, got a few dips here. Marshal is nice, but it doesn't affect your ToT abilities, just your skill checks, which are already high -.25 It does flow naturally into fatemaker, which is then advanced via ToT, though +.25 Looks like you qualify for everything +.25 Snatch trophy and bloodsoaked intimidate really work for you and I like it +.25

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.75

    FP DC 28! (highest) +.75, breath DC 24 is baseline, Intimidate check and bluff is maxed with supporting structure +.5, don't really address knowledge -.25, Dominate dragons capstone is not used effectively -.25, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25 does feel like a ToT though +.25




    Doraanar Gireen 12.5
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    Originality: 3

    Steel dragon was unexpected (by me at least, apparently not by everyone) +.5 Abjurant champion and a ToB dip are fairly standard on a gish -.5

    Power: 3.75

    Blood Wind is a nice find for a dragon. + .25 Warblade dip seems wasted on counters that rely on concentration, doesn't really add to your power. -.25 Bestow curse shenanigans on self. +.75 For a character with 21 ranks in intimidate, shame you didn't take imperious command -.25 Polymorph was replaced by alternate form in Dragons of Faerun, sadly, you cannot polymorph into a hydra. (No penalty, just a tip) Quicken breath and entangling exhalation are nice bumps +.25 5th Level Sorcerer Spells (baseline, no penalty), BAB 15 (no penalty)

    Elegance: 3

    Qualified for everything, it seems. +.25 As above, warblade. Switching up feat order (and adding MWP) to take one more level of abjurant champion would have helped more, I think. -.25 Dominate self shenanigans -.25 Your feats seem … disordered and not focused. Some melee, some breath, some casting - it seems like you saw something nice and tossed it in. -.25 Steel Dragon -> ToT flows nicely into Abj. Champ though. +.75 You freely use bestow curse to add to your hit dice, but fail to account for Dragons as PCs within Draconomicon, p 141-144 (which require you to take dragon hit dice and level adjustment as you age, a mention would have been nice) -.25 Eberron fluff with a FR-specific dragon. No penalty, but call it a warning - you didn't cross the line.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2.75

    FP DC 23 baseline, breath DC 25 +.25, racial breath DC 17 is a bonus +.25, Intimidate check is maxed with supporting structure +.25, don't really address bluff or knowledge -.25, Dominate dragons capstone is not used effectively -.25, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25, I'm not seeing why a metallic steel dragon would be a ToT, story didn't quite sell it -.25




    Ornixen 14.5
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    Originality: 2.75

    Sorc was expected, dread witch as well -.5 I do like tossing templates on a character though +.25

    Power: 4

    6th level sorcerer spells +.25, BAB 11 -.25 fear stacking +.5, thanks for explaining how you use all your spells, it helps +.25 abusing dominate dragons to gain dragonpacts is fun +.25

    Elegance: 3

    Used older online savage progression for half dragon, since updated in Races of the Dragon -.25 I don't think you actually have the half dragon type until 3rd level of the draconic racial class, so you don't qualify for dragon breath (either that, or as a half dragon you don't qualify for dreadful wrath, but I think its the breath you don't qualify for) -.25 There is a reason why a lot of entries went sorc -> DW -> ToT, because it seems natural +.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.75

    DC 24 Breath weapon is baseline, FP DC 25 +.25, required skills are maxed out and used +.5, Dominate dragons capstone is mentioned in great detail +.5, Uses dragonthrall +.25, feels like a ToT though, got the right flavor +.25




    Haylee 13.5
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    Originality: 2.75

    So, dragonlance dragonspawn, eh? +.25 Sorc was expected, dread witch as well -.5

    Power: 4.25

    6th level sorcerer spells +.25 BAB 11 -.25 flying emphasis and strong breath attacks +.5 fear stacking +.25 really nice find on autohypnosis for fear immunity/suppression (on top of dread witch, no less) +.25 Decent UMD +.25

    Elegance: 3.25

    I'm sorry, I'm not buying human paragon with dragonspawn, you are essentially a draconic/half dragon/monstrous humanoid at that point -.25 too bad, because everything else seems legit (you lose the bonus for qualify for everything) Sorc -> DW -> TOT flows nicely though +.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3.25

    DC 26 Breath weapon +.5, FP DC 23 is baseline, Intimidate check is maxed with supporting structure +.25, don't really address bluff or knowledge -.25, Dominate dragons capstone is not mentioned -.25, Don't really use Dragonthrall feat except to get in -.25, feels like a ToT though, got the right flavor +.25


    Last edited by mattie_p; 2013-06-09 at 06:28 PM.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  20. - Top - End - #590
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Anticipating questions regarding my uniform ratings, here they are:

    BAB:

    You get a flat bonus of +.25 for 16+, 14-15 no bonus or penalty, 13 or below is a penalty of -.25

    Spellcasting or equivalent:

    1st level gets you -.75
    2nd level gets you -.5
    3rd level gets you -.25
    4th and 5th level gets you nothing
    6th level gets you +.25
    7th level gets you +.5
    8th level gets you +1
    9th level gets you +1.75

    Yes, spells are that powerful. Check the tier system if you don't know why.


    Both Breath DC and Frightful presence DC have the same scale:

    Lowest of everyone gets -.75
    21 or below gets you -.5
    22 gets you -.25
    23-24 is considered baseline
    25 gets you +.25
    26 gets you +.5
    Highest gets you +.75

    Other than that, I assessed bonuses and penalties as I saw fit, but I marked each one down. If you disagree with them, I'm ok with that. Just please explain what I missed, and if I agree with your clarification then I will adjust.

    EDIT: Piggy Knowles, I would have loved to have MODDOKH appear in all of my judging, as it is, I was only able to throw in a few passing references. I needed to finish, rewriting the whole thing was certainly not in the cards.
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2013-06-08 at 02:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  21. - Top - End - #591
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    And a table after two judges

    {table=head] Rank |Build |First judge score |Second judge score |Average
    1st |The dead Mist |16.75 |13.75 |15.25
    1st |Vox Dracul |14.75 |15.75 |15.25
    3rd |Ornixen |15.5 |14.5 |15
    4th |Krumbalt |13.5 |15 |14.25
    5th |Leide Magora |12.5 |15.5 |14
    6th |Suspect 1 |15.75 |11.75 |13.75
    7th |Halyee Tsossysss |13.5 |13.5 |13.5
    8th |Firnesquis |12 |14.75 |13.375
    9th |Emrys |12.75 |13.25 |13
    10th |Wyrmlord Kranzon |10.5 |15.25 |12.875
    10th |Spyro |13.25 |12.5 |12.875
    12th |Sigismundo Celine |11.5 |14 |12.75
    12th |Zeddicus |12.5 |13 |12.75
    14th |Violet Ruskin |10.5 |14.75 |12.625
    15th |Doc D'oc |12.5 |12 |12.25
    16th |Lady Gray |11.75 |12.5 |12.125
    16th |The White Whale |12.25 |12 |12.125
    18th |Doraanar Gireen |11.25 |12.5 |11.875
    18th |Abrasa Kal |11.75 |11.5 |11.875
    20th |Tristyn R'yr |11 |12 |11.5
    20th |Aleksander |10.5 |12.5 |11.5
    22nd |Calsus |11.5 |10.5 |11
    23rd |Majeed Azar |8.25 |9.25 |8.75 [/table]

    As before please check my numbers
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-06-09 at 06:33 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  22. - Top - End - #592
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I am happy with the progress made in this competition. Thank you judges! Know that your work is very much appreciated, though I do not envy any of it.

    So far feeling pretty good for having joined in these competitions. Anyone else getting that feeling?
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  23. - Top - End - #593
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    so i guess the cooks may reveal themselves now?

  24. - Top - End - #594
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    And a table after two judges

    As before please check my numbers
    I'm not checking your numbers, I'll leave that to the competitors. All I want to do right now is kill Tiamat. Or a dragon. Or anything with scales. Unfortunately my game group isn't meeting today

    I will note though that both judges only had the same score on a single entry. I am reading through Kayzan's judging right now for the first time.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  25. - Top - End - #595
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Heh, my group is meeting today.

    ...I'm playing a Binder with Imperious Command.

    Anyway, thanks for judging, mattie_p. This is why we need multiple judges--your scores are pretty substantially different from mine!

  26. - Top - End - #596
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    I really liked your judgings mattie (at least the ones that I read) they are really clear on what everything comes from and I don't think I can contend your ruling.

    I am okay with the reveal, but there is a tie at first place at the moment, so perhaps we should wait till the chairman says so, or to the time limit. Some comments might move the first posts.

    ---

    I am really glad that I joined. Feedback on builds is great.
    Last edited by thethird; 2013-06-08 at 02:48 PM.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  27. - Top - End - #597
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Thanks for the judgings, mattie p! It's always nice to get more than one opinion on things.

    @Korahir: Not yet. When the chairman does the final reveal, chefs will be displayed alongside their dishes.
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  28. - Top - End - #598
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    I really liked your judgings mattie (at least the ones that I read) they are really clear on what everything comes from and I don't think I can contend your ruling.

    I am okay with the reveal, but there is a tie at first place at the moment, so perhaps we should wait till the chairman says so, or to the time limit. Some comments might move the first posts.
    The chairman will reveal the names of all competitors with their entries in time. And do leave time for disputes, I might change my score(s) based on feedback from a competitor, we need to leave enough time for that.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  29. - Top - End - #599
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Wow after I finished reading all over the judgings I learned a new thing!
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  30. - Top - End - #600
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

    Thanks for finishing the pile, mattie_p. Now, hopefully a blissfully brief disputes period, then the reveal, and on to fretting about which PrC without Intimidate the Chairman selected for the next contest.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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