Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLV

[3WhiteFox3]

I'm new to Iron Chef, but I've watched quite a few of the Challenges in the past on a sporadic basis. I'll be entering, since this is one of the first challenges that I felt that I had a good idea for a build.

So assuming that everything goes well, I'll put in my first ever entry.

[Vaz]

Yeah when I saw just what they had to go through, I felt glad that I had dropped my plans to make a second. I'll definitely stick to only one character. I have 2 good plans it's just deciding on which one to continue with.

Buyoff gets penalized? Well dang...okay that limits me just a bit. I'll work through it. At the very least I am almost certain these ideas are unique.

Buy off does get Penalised for Elegance, and possibly power, dependent on how much you need that buy-off; because you're assuming you get more XP than everyone else in the same competition.

[Thurbane]

I'm of the opinion that level buy-off should take some kind of hit, in the interests of a level playing field.

[Macabaret]

Though, it should probably be noted that I took a hit one round for NOT buying off my LA. (If I recall correctly.) It really all depends on the judge(s) you get.

My best advice on the subject: Build your character as though you don't get buy-off, then include a "If LA buy-off is allowed" section to describe what you would do with the (presumably few) extra levels.

[Macabaret]

Yeah when I saw just what they had to go through, I felt glad that I had dropped my plans to make a second. I'll definitely stick to only one character.

In light of this concept, I wonder what the chefs, judges, and Chairman would think of a rule limiting contestants on one build per contest. Has it been done/tried before? Has there ever been discussion on that topic? Have build submissions en masse been a problem for the judges, or has it really only been a theoretical problem that in practice hasn't turned out to be too bad? Would chefs grumble about being limited to only one submission? Would it make more work for the Chairman having to weed out who's already submitted in order to enforce said rule?

Thoughts anyone?

[FyreByrd]

It just so happened I was looking at Talon of Tiamat the other day, and thinking that it sucked hard enough to be an IC ingredient...now it is...ugh!

Not sure if I'll get a build together or not...will need a long think about it

[Vaz]

I don't think there has; however, the IC has begun to become a bit more popular (we've had a 17, with Geomancer, 14 (?) with Shadowblade, 21 (?) with Bladesinger, and then this round as well). Since I started, really, it's become increasingly popular.

There were odd exceptions over previous competitions, getting large numbers here and there, but for the most part, they haven't been that high.

Perhaps a "soft cap" on entries, if there was to be one. I.e, you can enter as many as you like, but label which one is your preference. If there is more than a particular number (say 15), then any extra entries are discounted and not "revealed"? That way, if only 6 people turn up to the next SI (I might be on holiday), then they can all enter at least 2 entries if they so desire?

[Amphetryon]

In light of this concept, I wonder what the chefs, judges, and Chairman would think of a rule limiting contestants on one build per contest. Has it been done/tried before? Has there ever been discussion on that topic? Have build submissions en masse been a problem for the judges, or has it really only been a theoretical problem that in practice hasn't turned out to be too bad? Would chefs grumble about being limited to only one submission? Would it make more work for the Chairman having to weed out who's already submitted in order to enforce said rule?

Thoughts anyone?

I think it's a lot of extra work for the Chairman, in order to "fix" what is largely an illusory/self-correcting problem. The choice of SI will almost invariably influence how many folks want to enter and how many entries a given competitor may wish to make, and influence them in ways that cannot be entirely predicted, because a given SI may be more (or less) popular within some segment of Iron Chef competitors than it is in the experience of the Chairman. An otherwise obscure SI could be a favorite of a few competitors, leading those few to each make 2 - 3 entries, or a relatively well-known SI could scare off competitors who think (paradoxically) that the SI is so popular that their own creations wouldn't seem up-to-snuff in the sea of entries they anticipate.

I believe that the timing of this last round coinciding with the approximate end of the semester at many colleges and universities around the US played a role, both in the influx of entries and the scarcity of judges. I also think it would be unlikely to anticipate that a given judge's computer would crash just before submitting tallies (as happened here, and in a previous round a good while ago), because there's just no reasonable metric to anticipate that outcome.

tl;dr - there are too many variables to gauge how many entries and judges a given round will get to make limiting the number of entries anything other than an arbitrary choice of questionable merit.

[Vaz]

I am NEVER doing Spellcasters again.

Holy hell, I hate them bonus spells from ability scores. And I'm not even sure if I'm going to enter this one, it just feels like it could be anything "OTHER" than a Talon of Tiamat I'm entering. Ah, well.

[Deadline]

I've got some ideas I like in the oven, if any look decent after a few days, I'll submit them. I may just be giddy from my win in the previous round.

If I don't cook this time around, I may try my hand at judging. I'll let you guys know.

[Haluesen]

I tend to really not want to work with LA or racial HD. Takes away too much from all those class abilities I love so much. Even with low LA, gotta have buyoff. So I need to work with things without them for this, unless I really really think it'll make a difference.

Waiting until I get home to start my dish. There seem to be enough people that I'll only need to make one, or maybe I'll make 2 and see which one I prefer.

[Callin]

realizing your build isnt goin to work = priceless


back to the drawing board

[Piggy Knowles]

I agree that limiting entries after a certain point can be needlessly complicated, and I'm not a big fan of the idea. I like that the contest is more or less open, and I'd like to see it stay that way.

I've personally decided that I'm going to set a cap on how many builds I submit, though. The new rule I'm giving myself is that, if I've submitted four builds since the last time I judged, I'm not allowed to submit any more until I judge one. This way I won't get in the habit of constantly putting off judging because I have a neat idea for an entry.

[Draz74]

Dang it, despite my best intentions, I've spent several hours coming up with most of a build stub for this round.

I'm not really satisfied with it, though, so I still may not enter the contest.

[Sgt. Cookie]

The build proper is nice and done, all that's left are his tricks and techniques. And then it'll be submitted.

[nobodez]

What's funny is, during the LA conversation, I got an even better idea with much more background and hopefully elegance and power (though since this'll be my first IC, I'm only shooting for "not last").

[OMG PONIES]

What's funny is, during the LA conversation, I got an even better idea with much more background and hopefully elegance and power (though since this'll be my first IC, I'm only shooting for "not last").

Heh, after all my entries that's STILL my goal.

[Piggy Knowles]

Ha! I was just so impressed with myself for getting (REDACTED) and (REDACTED) to all work together, and couldn't believe my first build idea actually turned into a workable final product - I usually go through five or six variations before I get something I'm really happy with.

Then, when I started creating the actual table, I realized I somehow had 24 class levels.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Has happened to me; but mostly when I want to use a monstrous race.

On another note I have two distinct builds, I am not sure which I want to work on first, since that would be my "primary" build for the contest.

[Kazyan]

I had a new idea, but there's no way I could justify not just taking more of (REDACTED). Bah. If something doesn't bubble to the top of my op-fu eventually, I'll judge.

[Piggy Knowles]

Has happened to me; but mostly when I want to use a monstrous race.

Somehow I ended up with 14 levels of the SI. You'd think if I was going to cheat with too many levels, I'd do something a little more useful...

[Dusk Eclipse]

Ok, I admit that I wasn't expecting that.

[Draz74]

Ha! I was just so impressed with myself for getting (REDACTED) and (REDACTED) to all work together, and couldn't believe my first build idea actually turned into a workable final product - I usually go through five or six variations before I get something I'm really happy with.

Then, when I started creating the actual table, I realized I somehow had 24 class levels.

Oh yeah, I've had some ROCKIN' AWESOME build stubs for Iron Chef ingredients that ended up having 21-24 levels ...

... oh, wait ...

Ok, I admit that I wasn't expecting that.

+1 to this.

[Vaz]

Ooh, got another build stub, and a completely separate concept that I now REALLY want to find a build that can work it.

[Shining Wrath]

Wow. That's sort-of ... generic. It doesn't call to me, but I shall attempt to cook something. Awaiting inspiration.

[Callin]

My head is bruised over this. I have made about 6 different builds only to trash em. I keep coming back to one idea but I Swear its not IC material.

[thethird]

It might be because I am newb at this but after reading over the secret ingredient I asked myself what would I use if I were to play this class? I did some minor changes, but nothing as throwing everything and starting again.

This can of course be influenced with my second wild idea not working at all

Any prospective judge?

[Fable Wright]

My head is bruised over this. I have made about 6 different builds only to trash em. I keep coming back to one idea but I Swear its not IC material.

It actually might be. You just never know.

That said, I actually managed to find something that used all but 1.5 of the Talon of Tiamat's class features and could actually get good use out of some of them. The problem is that there are way, way too many fiddly bits between the LA possible buy-off, {REDACTED}, {REDACTED}, the headache from combining LA and {REDACTED}, and the possibly questionable tactic of {REDACTED}, especially with the last point. It may be a bit too much altogether for the other notes section...

[Amechra]

You know, I had a random thought.

How much more boring would watching this Iron Chef on TV be than the real thing?

"Oh, he's cracking open Complete Psionics! I wonder what culinary delight he's going to make out of that trash heap?"

[Sgt. Cookie]

I think that might be interesting, we get some people together on skype, have a chairman decide the secret ingredient, have a couple of observers/judges and start off with about 10 or so chefs, getting rid of one chef per episode. To top it off, we only get like an hour or so to do our builds.

And it will be the greatest D&D 3.5 themed Youtube show that will ever exist.


On the bright side, I'm feeling very smug with my build. I've found ways to make ToT work for me, although I might loose [REDACTED] because of [REDACTED]. But I'm really pleased that I manged to slip [REDACTED] into it, without loosing any [REDACTED]. And the best bit? It's not a one-trick pony.