OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread

[Kim]

\To the question about shared dream vs one of seperate partymembers dream, notice the upper right corner.

Is this skin above the eye? Is it Roys face?
It is a bit lighter brown than his skin, but still a closer match for than anybody else in the party.

I think it's the ceiling. Check out the other recent strips. {Ninja'd at 5:20 in the morning. Can't say I expected that, although I probably should've...}

I'm personally leaning toward this being all Elan's dream, with some artistic license on the Giant's part for the characters Elan hasn't seen. (Easier than having all of us asking, "Who's that with Roy underneath his statue?", etc.)

[RolyPoly]

So either individual fantasies, or a shared fantasy gleaned from the minds of each OOTS member and stitched together into a mostly coherent story. Except Belkar. Or Mr Scruffy, come to that.

I don't believe Belkar does self loathing, so I don't buy the theory that we're seeing any of his fantasies. Besides, Belkar's fantasy would involve some major halfling originated arse kicking. Looks like he resisted the illusion, which maybe isn't surprising, since Belkar isn't a great believer in happy endings either. I guess the "Belkar's dead" moment in the previous issue was the illusion seamlessly snipping Belkar out of the plotline. He does get a statue though.

This is his moment I guess. If ever there was a need for a sarcastic mean-spirited pain in the arse to puncture the illusions of his so-called friends, it's now.

[Jiggs]

Nice! Quiet a 'Happy Ending' !
Makes me wonder if the comic might one day could end in a way like this.
ok, but not today, since it is an illusion

Anyways, if I were to venture a guess, it would be that the strip is a compilation of the illusions of all hypnotised characters.

[FLHerne]

Oracle "For you, at least."
Perhaps this is an excuse to make it end badly for Elan after all?

[Seharvepernfan]

Saddest comic yet?

Saddest comic yet.

Man, this one got me.

[Werbaer]

I miss Durkon returning to the dwarven homelands. He isn't dreaming, but Roy knows that Durkon wants to return more than anything else.

And we don't see anything like a good ending for V. Not about reuniting with hir mate, since the order doesn't know about those events; but i would expect Elan to imagine hir becoming the post powerful mage ever.

Regarding throwing the phylactery into the vulcano: Unlike some other famous jewelry, it might not get destroyed, with all that protection spells on it; but i doubt Xykon will manage to regenerate in lava.

And did nobody mention Haleys dad? It looks like he becomes leader of the thieves guild again. Or would that be Haley herself?

[Harye Sidur]

Bad@ss McPurrington (Belkar's cat) cannot read the runes and since they're not in a language it understands...is not mind controlled. It's also not in any panel.

Deus Ex felinicus incoming.

[NeeL]

After reading all that has been said, I still believe this is Elan's perspective on the afterlife and thus only Elan's illusion.

Because, if this is a shared illusion, why would Roy see his father with wings, instead of without wings like everybody else on the mountain in the afterlife, where Roy's father will go after the Blood Oath is fulfilled?

Those wings, the evil eyes on the phylactery and the theatrical destruction of the phylactery are evidence for me that this is all Elan's point of view.

[JackRackham]

Call me crazy, but this strip gave me a sinking feeling in my stomach like none have in a while. Why?

'Will this story have a happy ending?'

'Yes. For you at least'

Keep in mind that the oracle has shown meta-awareness before. And this story now has a 'happy ending.' All bets are now off people. Anything can happen again.

EDIT: 'For you at least' gives me hope, though.

[Gift Jeraff]

Cool strip. Who is behind O-Chul in the MitD panel?

Also, if V was sharing in the illusion, I imagine s/he wouldn't have the same attitude as Roy towards Belkar's funeral. Belkar and V seem to have developed something resembling a friendship as of late.

[Halaku]

Looks like he resisted the illusion, which maybe isn't surprising, since Belkar isn't a great believer in happy endings either. I guess the "Belkar's dead" moment in the previous issue was the illusion seamlessly snipping Belkar out of the plotline. He does get a statue though.

This is his moment I guess. If ever there was a need for a sarcastic mean-spirited pain in the arse to puncture the illusions of his so-called friends, it's now.

I don't think he resisted the illusion (he had the same eyes of the other at the last panel of the last strip). In my opinion, the spell killed Belkar because they know Belkar must die, in account of the prophecy. Roy and Haley know it for sure, and the others should know even if they don't realize, because Roy said so a few strips ago. Maybe the spell creates the "happiest" ending it can that is still "possible".

Another posibility: what if the spell does not create always a happy ending? It could create an illusion that matches the target's allignement (happy ending if you are good, not so happy if you are evil). That also would fit here, and could be something that a neutral Girard could craft (I know we don't know for sure that he is neutral).

[Pory]

Interesting strip. I love the little details, like:

3rd panel - Durkon close his eyes (Dinnae look down, dinnae look down...)
5th panel - Thanh kills Jirix. Once again, he's always killed by paladins...and Miko too
9th panel - Roy's statue is in Cliffport (there are flying machines) just in case Julia forgets. Jerk move there, Roy

[Kish]

"How will this end?" - "For you? With a Happy Ending"

Except for the minor fact that that was not the question, nor was that the answer.

[Varidan]

Not sure if anyone caught this, too many pages to go through, but it looks like in the panel with Tsukiko, Nale is also helping them fight, you can see him in the corner...

EDIT: Nvm, upon further inspection, its not Nale. I thought it was him because what you coudl see of his shirt looks black. I thought it would be cool since in the panel before that, it shows Elan and him shaking hands.

[Math_Mage]

To repeat, Rich has said in the commentary that Elan's prophecy refers to the actual ending. He's not pulling a fast one.

[gorocz]

In order - reunion with Hinjo and Lien, O-Chul reuniting with MitD, Elan with what appears to be a large lollipop, and after that too small to discern.

My first thought was Elan putting a flower on Therkla's grave during a sunset...

I'm also very afraid about how long they've been standing there now-it looks like that would have had to take a long time in reality.

In a setting where you can pass several hours by saying a few words and where this is possible? I'd say it was just a happy ending montage, not really living all the time it'd take for all those things to happen.

[fan4battle]

Not sure if anyone caught this, too many pages to go through, but it looks like in the panel with Tsukiko, Nale is also helping them fight, you can see him in the corner...

It's easy to confuse twin brothers. ;)

[Wonton]

Uh oh. Did Elan just get his happy ending?

Oh dear, I hope not.

Now that I think about it, seeing as how Elan's question to the Oracle was phrased ("Will this story have a happy ending?"), the response only makes sense if the entire comic has a happy ending. Even if Elan thinks this is the happy ending, the whole story still can't have an unhappy ending (assuming the Oracle is infallible, of course).

[gorocz]

After reading all that has been said, I still believe this is Elan's perspective on the afterlife and thus only Elan's illusion.

Because, if this is a shared illusion, why would Roy see his father with wings, instead of without wings like everybody else on the mountain in the afterlife, where Roy's father will go after the Blood Oath is fulfilled?

Those wings, the evil eyes on the phylactery and the theatrical destruction of the phylactery are evidence for me that this is all Elan's point of view.

Evil eyes are certainly not only Elan's PoW.

[Cerlis]

It does look like padding, at a time when the book i overlong. It does confirm that this is a delusion, and it's not bad of itself, but as said, it doesn't seem to advance the plot.

and the sky is blue

[Kazul]

Saddest comic yet?

Saddest comic yet.

Man, this one got me.

Pretty much this.

[fan4battle]

Oh, and whomever thought this might be Elan's happy ending, don't forget he's destined to have a dramatic duel with his father, probably on the palace's staircase.

[Topus]

I think this is the fulfillment of Elan's prophecy, but this doesn't mean his death.
The question was "Will this story have a happy ending?" which is slightly different from "Will this story end happily?". Now the story have a happy ending (even if illusory), at least for Elan.

[Francis Davey]

After reading all that has been said, I still believe this is Elan's perspective on the afterlife and thus only Elan's illusion.

It is extremely difficult to reconcile that with Julia's frown. As I've said that is an intentional detail. Roy doesn't just get recognition, he sticks it to his sister as well. There is no way that Elan would think that way - it is against his nature - and it is unlikely (as others have said) that he would even consider it. The flying machines locating it in Cliffport give some support to that point.

Some of the other panels don't fit well into Elan's mind either, even if others inescapably must be (Banjo's new girlfriend for instance). I agree that a great many of them can be attributed to Elan (his hero worship of Roy means that some good for Roy outcomes are good for Elan too).

So, most likely either each panel is one person's imagination or there is some combination effect going on where the magic draws from each person's mind.

[Math_Mage]

It does look like padding, at a time when the book i overlong. It does confirm that this is a delusion, and it's not bad of itself, but as said, it doesn't seem to advance the plot.

You say padding, I say pacing, po-tay-to po-tah-to. Just how far were you expecting to get before encountering Girard's epic illusions? Just how quickly do you expect the comic to dispense with the epic illusion?

Durkon died just ten strips ago. We arrived at the Windy Canyon just fifty strips ago. The Dungeon of Dorukan lasted over a hundred strips. How is this being padded?

[stsasser]

Stunning comic and puppet love!

[Killer Angel]

A great panel, I must say, with wonderful details.
Such a sad strip...

[Roland Itiative]

Those wings, the evil eyes on the phylactery and the theatrical destruction of the phylactery are evidence for me that this is all Elan's point of view.

The eyes are consistent with what we've seen when Xykon's soul was inhabiting the trinket way back after the dungeon of Dorukan. No one in the Order would have any reason to know that, but I guess the Giant added it in as a little reminder to us that, in the dream, they got the real phylactery, not RC's alternate holy symbol (which the Order also doesn't know about).

As for the comic itself... Not the best of pages. It was fun and a little bit sad seeing what the Order (or Roy, or Elan, whatever) wants most, and how it's completely unrealistic in some ways (specially the panels with Durkon, that had a very bittersweet feel), but in the end this was a page where literally nothing happened. No comedy, no plot advancement, no exposition, no conflict.

[Cranica]

thog will always treasure talky-man's illusionary fantasy. it feature non-traditional panel layout.

[quasit]

Wow, this is just...shocking.Very well done

I miss Durkon returning to the dwarven homelands. He isn't dreaming, but Roy knows that Durkon wants to return more than anything else.

And we don't see anything like a good ending for V. Not about reuniting with hir mate, since the order doesn't know about those events; but i would expect Elan to imagine hir becoming the post powerful mage ever.

About that: Roy totally wishes he wasn't (un)dead. I think that, as he's bound to go back posthumously, he just thinks there's no reason for being hasty about that and have a bit of time to enjoy their friendship, with no save the world plots involved.

Belkar dying in a shared fantasy makes sense: no matter what he does(or pretends, or whatever)can change the impression his teammates have about him (and one of those was on the brink of executing him on the spot), said teamates are expecting him to die soon and looks like they don't give a damn either, he's drained, weak and almost useless at this point, only managing to do what he's best at by talking out Roy; and, on top of that, there's strong hints that he's undergoing survivors guilt. Well, at least he's having a kickass tombstone, that's something.
It just sucks to be him.