OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread

[dpkress]

What spell would cause such massive illusion? It has to be epic level.

[Kareasint]

Well, there are a lot of good points made in the forum thread so far.

I believe this is how Roy thinks that the story will end. The strip contains too many elements of Roy acting differently than Elan would consider.

Girard is a masterful spell creator to come up with this trap. It leaves the targets in such a state that it literally could kill them just by leaving them in a state of bliss for so long that the targets simply starve to death. The spell could also being using elements from the other three PC's memories to fill in details for the rest of Roy's dreams.

The panel layout was nicely done. Good work, Giant.

@dpkress: You could create an epic level spell to do just about anything. The Delude Seed would definitely be used to create this type of spell.

[Aquillion]

Uh oh. Did Elan just get his happy ending?

Elan got his happy ending over 400 strips ago.

[Ellye]

By the way, one thing...

I'm starting to imagine just how much frustrated the Order will be when the illusion is broken.

You know how we feel when we wake up in the middle of a fantastic dream? Well, imagine that feeling, greatly increased, coupled up to you waking up in a terrible, terrible situation, with everything going wrong.

Spoiler

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I'm afraid Belkar might indeed be the first one to break out of it, and when he tries to break Roy out of it...

[HandofShadows]

I am official worried about Elan's chances of survival now.

[Poppy Appletree]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I wonder if the point of this illusion is to make people live out their lives in a fantasy until the point where they die at old age, at which point their bodies die or become braindead because the affected person believes they have died. Of course, Belkar already died, and if this was a shared delusion then Belkar would be have Xs for eyes according to this theory.

[One Step Two]

What scares me about this illusion, isn't just the fact that they are standing motionless for who-knows how long, but the fact that we're being presented with an idealized version of what they* think will happen.
If nothing else it should solidify the fact that we are going to receive a very different set of events when we do meet the end, and they won't be nearly so pleasant.


*This could be a shared illusion by the order, but I'd be betting it's all Roy's. That said, If it is just Roy's. I'd love to see extended illusions for the others in the book

[Chaotic Queen]

I don't know what's cuter. That Haley has an Elan doll among the gold, or that Elan made a girlfriend for Banjo.

[Psyren]

My vote is for shared fantasy. Elan reconciling with Nale and Tarquin, and anything involving puppet love, is definitely coming from Elan's mind rather than Roy's. But the statue of Roy with Julia looking pissed at his recognition is definitely coming from Roy's mind. The resistance victory image is most likely from Haley, especially since Roy isn't there.

What spell would cause such massive illusion? It has to be epic level.

Not in psionics!
Though, given their hp totals you actually might be right, technically.

[Kish]

If nothing else it should solidify the fact that we are going to receive a very different set of events when we do meet the end, and they won't be nearly so pleasant.

You needed to be told that Xykon will not be smashed by Roy in a walkover? That Nale and Tarquin are not going to reform? That Thanh and the Resistance are dead? That Durkon really is a vampire?

It doesn't make me sad that Rich isn't bringing the story to an abrupt implausible ending.

[SteveMB]

If this is Elan's illusion Roy would be sad over Belkar's dead and would also comfort Elan.

Yeah, Elan has a rather idealized view of Roy. If nothing else, he sees him as too much a noble leader to blow off the funeral of someone who died under his command even if he didn't like him very much.

[Draconic kobold]

Hey guys, first time poster long time lurker, I registered mostly so I could ask if anyone's brought up the possibility that the reason Belkar is dead in this is cause his happy ending is probably incompatible with everyone else's, given it's a fair guess to say it involves him killing a bunch of people who the order want alive/who are currently part of the order.

This is giving me hope that Belkar will be the one to snap out of it and save everyone cause he can't get the happy ending everyone else is having, unless he's getting a separate one then ahwell that's my theory out the door.

Other theories of mine involve Elan's genre savyness saving them, or the message from Niu breaking the illusion when she tells them everyone's dead.

[Psyren]

Also, Elan doesn't know what Eugene looks like; only Roy and Haley were in the throne room to have seen him back then. So that part must have come from Roy. And Elan wouldn't know Julia well enough to know that adulations being heaped on Roy from grateful NPCs would piss her off, so the statue is Roy's fantasy too.

[Person_Man]

Argh! Now that this has all been shown in a dream/fantasy/illusion/enchantment/alternate reality/alternate timeline, it's highly unlikely that it will happen in the "real" OotS continuity! I'm not sure why. That's just the way the trope goes. I guess it's because once an author has shown something, there's no point in showing it again.

Its all very sad, really. Showing us the "ideal" (as long as you're not Belkar) but fake happy ending makes it far less likely that we will ever see a real happy ending.

[Bisqwit]

Panel 2 is clearly Roy's illusion: "I knew that no-good Belkar was lying!"

And if Haley was sharing this illusion, she would be immediately suspicious, because she's the only one logical enough, and distrustful enough, to realize that Belkar's tooth marks didn't come from nowhere.

[warmachine]

The delusion appears to be from Roy's perspective only. I predict all four are being looked after by Vaarsuvius, who is fretting that he can't break the delusion without killing them. V tries to enter their delusional worlds to ease them out but he can't convince them.

Except for Belkar. An unhappy childhood of bitterness and resentment means he's suspicious that his life is so good. When V enters his world and tells him, Belkar disbelieves his delusion and escapes. With V acting as a conduit, Belkar enters the delusions of the other three and ruins them, giving them the desire to escape.

Yes, I am a fan of Red Dwarf.

[davidbofinger]

Having the actual final fight with Xykon be a fundamental repeat of this one would be a tad...anticlimatic.

I don't suppose that's the purpose of the illusions: to recruit intruders as gate defenders, and to train them to destroy the gate's greatest threat (that they know about).

No, I don't suppose it is.

[davidbofinger]

Yeah, Elan has a rather idealized view of Roy. If nothing else, he sees him as too much a noble leader to blow off the funeral of someone who died under his command even if he didn't like him very much.

Could it be Haley's fantasy? She'd want to be comforting Elan, and she might still hold the "abandon Elan to the bandits" incident against Roy, at some level and so imagine him walking away. But Haley likes V, would she imagine V dismissing Belkar's death?

I still think it's more likely Belkar's fantasy. Especially since Mr. Scruffy is in it.

[Lecan]

And yep, given the comic's title, I gotta wonder if this is the happy ending the oracle kobold predicted for Elan.

That's what I'm worried about. It's been the one ray of hope when all else seemed lost and now anything could happen. Every prediction except Belkar's death has been fulfilled IF this is Elan's happy ending and he (Belkar) could very well be dead now. I certainly don't think the Giant will end the comic this way, but he's taken it back to Anything Could Happen and that worries me.

Edit: I don't know what it means, but in the first two scenes, Haley's damage signs change. She has a bruise on her cheek in the first that isn't there in the second and a cut under her breast in the second that isn't in the first. Elan and Roy seem to have the same in both scenes.

Another Edit: Realized that the damage was just moved, probably a minor art error.

[Minitroll]

I can definitely say this seems like Elan's thoughts, and therefore Elan's Happy Ending- due to Tarquin making him and Nale best friend brothers.

[Werbaer]

I don't know what's cuter. That Haley has an Elan doll among the gold, or that Elan made a girlfriend for Banjo.

It's not a doll; Elan is standing in the doorway while Haley enjoys the gold.

For the panel with Banjos girlfriend, i really like the heart on a thread. Since Elan only has two handes, i'm wondering who holds it.

[Vaarsuvius-Mage]

I love the way the layout for this one is made! Awesome! But, this make me wonder, how long have they been just standing there druling while the Linear Guild and Xykon are getting closer to the gate? And do they go through the illusion too? Also, is Belkar really dead? And more importantly, is Mr. Scruffy okay?! I can't wait to see what happens next! This is why I love OOTS! It leaves you with cliff hangers, most people get frustrated with them, but I find it makes the next strip even better if you have to wait a while for it. Also, now that the comic's been updating on Mondays, it makes my Mondays a lot less boring and Monday-ish!

[Ninja]

Elan got his happy ending over 400 strips ago.

Actually, he got it even sooner.

[RolyPoly]

Oh Oh !!

I think I just got it.

The spiral in this page is a close-up of somebody's "under-the-influence" spiral eye. Since the content seems to be a mash up of fantasies ripped out of Roy's head (big statues etc) Haley's (rolling around on pile of treasure etc) and Elan's (puppets! dino-rides! etc) but not Belkar's, it has to a close-up of Belkar's eye. It's one of those missing-element-is-the-key puzzles, as somebody intuited earlier.

The illusion must work by feeding fantasy images to a party member that it picks up from everybody else in the party. A sort of empathic cross-feed. it has to be a rune-trap , so it's not making conscious decisions, just working off a script.

This would work better if the party member in question was not cordially disliked by all the other members, so he shows up as dead in all of their fantasies ...

[Wolv90]

So, it looks like different panels correspond to different character's fantasies. Can we guess which one is which?

If you really read into it, it could be one big happy ending for all the Good characters. Belkar died because of his alignment, and Mr. Scruffy died because of his connection to Belkar. This spiral is wrapping up the stories of all the present characters with a good alignment.

[Christian]

And whose happy ending is this with Belkar dead and buried?

It's the happy ending for every sentient creature vulnerable to stab wounds.

[Vaarsuvius-Mage]

Oh Oh !!

I think I just got it.

The spiral in this page is a close-up of somebody's "under-the-influence" spiral eye. Since the content seems to be a mash up of fantasies ripped out of Roy's head (big statues etc) Haley's (rolling around on pile of treasure etc) and Elan's (puppets! dino-rides! etc) but not Belkar's, it has to a close-up of Belkar's eye. It's one of those missing-element-is-the-key puzzles, as somebody intuited earlier.

The illusion must work by feeding fantasy images to a party member that it picks up from everybody else in the party. A sort of empathic cross-feed. it has to be a rune-trap , so it's not making conscious decisions, just working off a script.

This would work better if the party member in question was not cordially disliked by all the other members, so he shows up as dead in all of their fantasies ...

Good theory! That actually makes a lot of sense!

[ooOoo]

The statue of Roy holding Xykon's severed head/skull is rather similar to the statue of Tarquin we see in #750.

[RNGgod]

On the subject of the disappointment one feels after waking up from a really nice dream, I'm really concerned about the effects of living out a fantasy, maybe for months or even years, and then waking up. That's can't be good for you emotionally and mentally. I could see that making some serious problems.

[FafnerMorell]

Kudos on the amazing layout. I think this is all just a fakeout, not the end of the story - but it's an awesome & artful representation of how one could show an epic-level illusion producing something like an epic-level dream-sequence.