[D&D 3.5 PrC] Theurge, a 'Mystic Theurge' PrC for all occasions. [PEACH]

[Xuldarinar]

THEURGE
Most are fortunate enough if they ever successfully master a single art of magic. Be it a thirst for knowledge or power that drives them, there are who seek to master two such arts. These individuals have come to be known as Theurges.

Hit Die: Consult the table below. Hit die is determined by the two classes used to enter.
Table 1-1: Hit Die
{table=head]HD|d4|d6|d8|d10|d12
d4|d4|d4|d6|d6|d8
d6|d4|d6|d6|d8|d8
d8|d6|d6|d8|d8|d10
d10|d6|d8|d8|d10|d10
d12|d8|d8|d10|d10|d12|[/table]


Requirements
To qualify to become a theurge, a character must meet the following criteria.
Skills: Consult the table below, pick two.
Special: Consult the table below. pick two.

Table 1-2: Prerequisites
{table=head] Class Type|Associated Skill|Associated Special Requirement
Arcane Spellcaster|Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks|Able to cast 2nd-level Arcane Spells
Divine Spellcaster|Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks|Able to cast 2nd-level Divine Spells
Infusion-User|Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 6 ranks|Able to use 2nd-level Infusions
Invocation-User|Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks|Eldritch blast 2d6 or Dragon Breath 2d6
Psionic-User|Knowledge (psionics) 6 ranks|Able to manifest 2nd-level powers
Maneuver-User|Martial Lore 6 ranks|Able to use 2nd-level maneuvers
Meldshaper|Knowledge (arcana) 6|Able to shape 3 soulmelds
Mystery-User|Knowledge (planes) 6 ranks|Able to use 2nd-level mysteries
Utterance-User|Preform (oratory) 6 ranks|Able to use 2 utterances from the Lexicon of the Evolving Mind
Vestige-User|Knowledge (history) 6 ranks|Able to Bind 2nd-level Vestiges [/table]

Special: A character can qualify using two classes to the same type. Doing so requires they meet the requirements with both classes. For example, a wizard/sorcerer could qualify for theurge but they must be able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells as both a sorcerer and a wizard and have 6 ranks of knowledge (arcana).

Class Skills
The theurge's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis). In addition they also gain the following class skills, dependent on their previous classes.

Table 1-3: Skills
{table=head] Class Type|Associated Skill
Arcane Spellcaster|Knowledge (arcana)(Int), Preform (all, bard only)(Cha) Spellcraft (Int)
Divine Spellcaster|Knowledge (religion)(Int), Spellcraft (Int)
Infusion-User|Knowledge (architecture and engineering)(Int), Use Magic Device (or Use Psionic Device for psionic artificer) (Cha)
Invocation-User|Knowledge (arcana)(Int), Spellcraft (Int)
Psionic-User|Knowledge (psionics)(Int), Psicraft (Int)
Maneuver-User|Martial Lore (Int)
Meldshaper|Knowledge (arcana)(Int)
Mystery-User|Hide (Dex), Knowledge (planes)(Int), Move Silently (Dex), Spellcraft (Int)
Utterance-User|Preform (Oratory)(Int), Truespeak (Int)
Vestige-User|Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (history)(Int)[/table]
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.


Table 1-4: The Theurge
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus(1)|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Class Features
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Combined Magic (1st)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Combined Magic (2nd)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Combined Magic (3rd)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Combined Magic (4th)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Combined Magic (5th)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Synthesis|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Combined Magic (6th)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
12th|+6|+4|+4|+8|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
13th|+6|+4|+4|+8|Combined Magic (7th)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
14th|+7|+4|+4|+9|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
15th|+7|+5|+5|+9|Combined Magic (8th)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
16th|+8|+5|+5|+10|-|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features
17th|+8|+5|+5|+10|Combined Magic (9th)|+1 level of existing class features/+1 level of existing class features[/table]
(1), If you enter this PrC using a maneuver using class, this PrC has a full Base Attack Bonus Progression instead. Otherwise, simply average the BAB of the classes you use to enter the PrC, rounded down if necessary.


Class Features
All of the following are features of the theurge prestige class.
Class Features: At each level, you gain class features and an increase in effective level as if you had also gained a level in two classes to which you belonged before adding this prestige class. You do not, however, gain the benefit of your previous class's Hit Dice, attack progression, skill points, or saving throws. These classes must be the ones you used to qualify for this prestige class. This only increases your effective level for the purposes of class abilities. This feature does not increase your effective level for the purposes of Hit die, maximum skills, feats gained, experience required per level, so on. This may only advance the following class features; Breath Weapon, Chakra Binds, Eldritch Blast, Infusions, Invocations, Item Creation, Maneuvers, Maneuvers Readied, Meldshaping, Mysteries and Paths, Pact Augmentation, Power Points/Day, Powers Known, Soul Binding, Spells, Stances Known, Utterances.
Combined Magic (Su): A theurge can prepare and use abilities from one of his classes uses available slots from any of his other classes. This class feature only functions with infusions, mysteries, powers, and spells. When using an ability from one class as an ability for another class, it costs one slot higher. For example, a 4th level arcane spell would take up a 5th level divine spell slot, a spell of any given level would cost as much as a power of one level higher, a 3rd level spell would take up a use of a 4th level mystery, So on. This starts only being able to be used with 1st level abilities and increases by one level every two level thereafter. For instance, a 5th level theurge can use 3rd level infusions in 4th level spell slots. When using an ability in another class's slots or using it's resource, it functions as if from the second class and not it's original class. In the case of invocation-users, this allows you to apply any single essence invocation (or shape invocation in the cases of mysteries, powers and spells) you know to any Infusion, maneuver, mystery, power, spell, or utterance you know up to the level listed.
Synthesis (Su): At 10th level, a theurge can use two of the following abilities as a single action: Cast an arcane spell, cast a divine spell, use a mystery, manifest a power, use an invocation, use an infusion, use a maneuver, use an ability granted by a vestige and/or use an utterance. Both must require the same amount of time to use. The theurge can make any decisions concerning the abilities independently. Any target affected by both take a -2 penalty on saves made against each. The theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster/manifester/ect. level checks made to overcome resistances with these two abilities. A theurge may use this ability once per day.



Note: If you are using this prestige class with pathfinder, you may enter the theurge prestige class using the alchemist. Each level in the theurge class would advance both bombs and extracts.

{table=head] Class Type|Associated Skill|Associated Special Requirement|Associated Skill
Extract-User|Craft (alchemy) 6 ranks|Able to use 2nd level Extracts|Heal, Use Magic Device [/table]

[peacenlove]

My suggestion is using PF mystic theurge's combined spells and spell synthesis abilities. They are generic enough to fit with the flavor. Some rewording would be needed (for binder / initiators for example).

Also I suggest making this class 14 levels long. After all, double 9's are a desirable effect, is hindered by the fct that you need to split your feats / equipment between your 2 halves and come late enough that a single class spellcaster won't feel left out.

Class Features: At each level after 1st, ...

Table / Text mismatch.

[Xuldarinar]

My suggestion is using PF mystic theurge's combined spells and spell synthesis abilities. They are generic enough to fit with the flavor. Some rewording would be needed (for binder / initiators for example).

Also I suggest making this class 14 levels long. After all, double 9's are a desirable effect, is hindered by the fct that you need to split your feats / equipment between your 2 halves and come late enough that a single class spellcaster won't feel left out.



Table / Text mismatch.

I'll look into the PF mystic theurge's class features and make appropriate adjustments.

I've extended the class, and fixed the mismatch.

Thank you.

Edit: Extended to 15 levels, following previous PrC examples. I've looked at the PF MT class features and adapted them. At this time, Combined Magic only functions with Infusions, Mysteries, Powers, and Spells. Together these are the easiest to make adjustments for. I will, as I look over things, expand the feature appropriately.

[Xerlith]

Well, the 10th level ability is basically giving a free quicken spell. It's powerful, but given it's a third if it's class features, I don't think it's that strong overall.
If not for the low BAB, it would be an awesome gish chassis, if combining maneuvers and spells.

[Xuldarinar]

Well, the 10th level ability is basically giving a free quicken spell. It's powerful, but given it's a third if it's class features, I don't think it's that strong overall.
If not for the low BAB, it would be an awesome gish chassis, if combining maneuvers and spells.

Well, I could make an alteration. A condition that if entered with maneuvers the BAB advancement is better.


Edit: I've added such a condition. If you enter the PrC with maneuvers, you gain a full BaB progression instead of a poor one.

[Xerlith]

Yup. Now it's a nice, generic, all-in-one hybrid class.
wiz3/warblade2/this15 would get 18BAB, 18 caster level, two nines... So a standard case for a gish, more or less.
The maneuver/stance known/readied progression stays the same as of the base class?

EDIT: Hm, how about once every fifth level you can pick a class feature of one of the classes you used to enter, as if you had an appropriate level of it? Or would that be too strong?

[Xuldarinar]

Yup. Now it's a nice, generic, all-in-one hybrid class.
wiz3/warblade2/this15 would get 18BAB, 18 caster level, two nines... So a standard case for a gish, more or less.
The maneuver/stance known/readied progression stays the same as of the base class?

EDIT: Hm, how about once every fifth level you can pick a class feature of one of the classes you used to enter, as if you had an appropriate level of it? Or would that be too strong?

Yes. I would assume the progression would remain as the base class.

I think that option would be a bit too strong. Its tempting, but already this easily permits double 9's in most combinations. I've contemplated at least adding advancement of abilities such as turn/rebuke undead but even then I feel it to be a bit much. This PrC is already fairly strong. I'd prefer to leave somethings to only be earned and advanced for focusing on a single class.

[Xuldarinar]

Update

Primarily some cleaning up of format, though I've added a clause to allow this PrC to be used to theurge two classes of the same 'type'. Arcane/Arcane, Divine/Divine, Psionic/Psionic, ect. That should simply make this just a bit more versatile.


Edit: Meldshaping added.

[nonsi]

Two things:
1. Notice that Invokers are shafted hard, because they can't be included before 6th level. That's a serious set-back. Utterance-Users also suffeer a set back, even though ounly 1 level. And those are among the weaker "spellcasters".
2. You did notice that your Theurge cannot be completed pre-epic (not without munchkinism and rule-lawyering anyway), right ?

[Xuldarinar]

Two things:
1. Notice that Invokers are shafted hard, because they can't be included before 6th level. That's a serious set-back. Utterance-Users also suffeer a set back, even though ounly 1 level. And those are among the weaker "spellcasters".
2. You did notice that your Theurge cannot be completed pre-epic (not without munchkinism and rule-lawyering anyway), right ?

1. I've changed the invoker entry requirement to Eldritch blast/dragon breath 2d6. This should fix that problem. As for utterance-users, they can meet prerequisites the same time as a sorcerer. If you have a suggestion as to alter the prerequisites to reduce that by 1 level, then by all means say so.

2. Without tricks, you are correct. However, the capstone ability is attained at 10th, not 15th level. The remaining 5 levels simply represents additional advancement. The PrC is virtually completed at it's 10th, but if they want to combine higher levels of effects they may continue to allow them to do so. This also allows to continue advancing two separate classes for another 5 levels, a plus over standard theurgic classes if you ask me.

[nonsi]

1. how about 2nd Lexicon of the Evolving Mind? (just a thought)
2. What about epic PrC progression? can a 17th level theurge combine 9th level effects or not? You'd probably want to state that. If the answer is "yes", then you should just add two more levels and remove all doubts.


As far as BAB goes, just state that you average BAB of both classes, tending toward the lower.
That way poor + good = average, and everything else goes south (not as in "goes to hell" ).

[Xuldarinar]

1. how about 2nd Lexicon of the Evolving Mind? (just a thought)
2. What about epic PrC progression? can a 17th level theurge combine 9th level effects or not? You'd probably want to state that. If the answer is "yes", then you should just add two more levels and remove all doubts.


As far as BAB goes, just state that you average BAB of both classes, tending toward the lower.
That way poor + good = average, and everything else goes south (not as in "goes to hell" ).

I've made the requested changes.

[Xuldarinar]

Posting for two reasons
1: To see if there are any more changes it needs.
2: For more people to get a chance to see on this page.


After this point, I will simply let it fall and it shall remain forever available via search and my signature.