[D&D Feats] Magic without Class.

[Xuldarinar]

{table=head] Feats|Prerequisites|Benefit
Magical Apprentice|Int 11, Cha 11, or Wis 11|Acquire access to 1st level spells
Increasing Knowledge|Magical Apprentice|Gain access to higher level spells
Shadow Apprentice|Int 11 and Cha 11|Acquire access to 1st level mysteries
Greater Shadows|Shadow Apprentice|Gain access to higher level mysteries [/table]

Greater Shadows
Prerequisites: Shadow Apprentice
Benefit: Every time you gain this feat, you learn 1 more mystery and increase the level of the highest level mystery you have access to by 1. You still require an ability score of 10 + the level of the mystery to use it. Upon acquire 4th level mysteries, your 1st-3rd level mysteries become usable 2/day each. Upon acquiring 7th level mysteries, your 1st-3rd level mysteries become usable 3/day each and your 4th-6th level mysteries are usable 2/day each. Unlike mysteries used by shadowcasters, these do not advance to spell-like abilities nor to supernatural abilities.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, up to a total number of your level / 2 (rounded down).

Increasing Knowledge
Prerequisites: Magical Apprentice
Benefit: Every time you gain this feat, you learn 2 more spells and increase the level of the highest level spell you have access to by 1. You still require an ability score of 10 + the level of the spell to cast it.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, up to a total number of your level / 2 (rounded down).

Magical Apprentice
Prerequisites: Intellect 11, Charisma 11, or Wisdom 11
Benefit: Upon acquiring this feat, you must select a spellcasting class, or infusion-using class. You learn 3 spells from it and become able to cast spells up to 1st level as that class. If the class casts divine spells, then you cast divine spells. If the class casts arcane spells, you cast arcane spells. If the class uses infusions then you use infusions. You must conform to any alignment or any other restrictions placed upon that class. Your casting stat is dependent upon which ability you used to acquire this feat. Regardless of the class you draw spells from, address the table below for spells per day. Divine casters may give up the ability to cast 0-level spells and instead cast 1 extra 1st level spell per day. Your caster level upon taking this feat is 1, and increases by 1 per level thereafter. Should you already possess a spellcasting class, spells per day and spells known are tracked separately, but your caster level becomes based upon the caster level of your spellcasting class if it is higher.

{table=head] Highest spell slot available|0|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|4|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
5th|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
6th|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-
7th|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-
8th|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-
9th|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1 [/table]
*If you include spells/spell slots over 9th level, this pattern continues indefinitely.

Shadow Apprentice
Prerequisites: Intellect 11 and Charisma 11
Benefit: Upon acquiring this feat, you learn 2 mysteries up to 1st level.
You rely on charisma for the purpose of DCs, but require an intellect score equal to 10 + the mystery's level to use it. All mysteries learned are 1/day. Your caster level is equal to your character level.

[Omnicrat]

You say skill when you mean ability.

Does this not give access to level 0 spells?

I like these feats. I'm sure there are ways to game the system and use these feats to get 9th level spells at level 5 or something, but aren't there always?

[Xuldarinar]

You say skill when you mean ability.

Does this not give access to level 0 spells?

I like these feats. I'm sure there are ways to game the system and use these feats to get 9th level spells at level 5 or something, but aren't there always?

There always are ways, but I fixed the main exploit with "you may not take this feat as a bonus feat." Meaning, you can only get up to 7th level spells.

As for 0 level spells, It should. I don't know why i didn't include that. I'll toss that in now.

[DMMike]

The condition that you cannot take Magical Apprentice if you already have a spellcasting class means that most classes can't take the feat.

And if Arcane Spell Failure still applies, Fighters won't be taking the feat either. The Mysteries, on the other hand, could become very popular.

It's looking more powerful than many other feats, by the way.

[Fizban]

Compared to dragonmarks and heritage it takes more feats but actually gives you a choice and has no level requirements so it would be a wash, but with the right build you can get spells before you're supposed to on this (never assume that number of feats available will be a restriction) so char op this wins hands down. Also, I see no downsides to being spontaneous or upsides to being prepared, so you might as well make that upgrade the default. Between that and bonus spells for ability score you're gonna have way more castings than a dragonmark too. So now it's got more uses to go with the lack of level restrictions and being able to choose your own spells. I'd put it firmly in the camp of "not broken in the hands of normal people."

Edit: normally you want to make a feat give you appropriate abilities for the level at which you can take it, which dragonmarks and the heritage legacy feats are quite well calculated into doing. The approach here mostly works on the fact that you normally have less feats than there are spell levels and are theoretically not maxing out that casting stat.

[Omnicrat]

The condition that you cannot take Magical Apprentice if you already have a spellcasting class means that most classes can't take the feat.

And if Arcane Spell Failure still applies, Fighters won't be taking the feat either. The Mysteries, on the other hand, could become very popular.

It's looking more powerful than many other feats, by the way.

Even if arcane spell failure applies, they can still take the spells of a cleric or paladin. Or a swordsage.

edit: Do stuff like engineer or warlock count as a spellcasting class? Evolutionist? Gramarist?

[Haarkla]

I would make the following changes:

Magical Apprentice
Prerequisites: Intellect 11, Charisma 11, or Wisdom 11
Benefit: Upon acquiring this feat, you must select a spellcasting class. You learn 3 spells from it and become able to cast spells up to 1st level as that class. If the class casts divine spells, then you cast divine spells. If the class casts arcane spells, you cast arcane spells. You must conform to any alignment or any other restrictions placed upon that class. Your casting stat is dependent upon which ability you used to acquire this feat. If the class is a spontaneous caster, you acquire one additional spell. (what is the point of this sentance?) Regardless of the class you draw spells from, address the table below for spells per day. Divine casters may give up the ability to cast 0-level spells and instead cast 1 extra 1st level spell per day (Orisons are fiddy and underpowered, and Paladins and Rangers dont get them). Your caster level is equal to your character level.
Special: If you already possess a spellcasting class, you may not select this feat.

{table=head] Highest level spell|0|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th
1st|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|4|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-
5th|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-
6th|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-
7th|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|- [/table]

Increasing Knowledge
Prerequisites: Magical Apprentice, Third level or higher
Benefit: Every time you gain this feat, you learn 2 more spells and increase the level of the highest level spell you have access to by 1. You still require an ability score of 10 + the level of the spell to cast it.
Special: You may take this feat more than once, you may not take this feat as a bonus feat.

[Omnicrat]

What about infusions?

[Xuldarinar]

The condition that you cannot take Magical Apprentice if you already have a spellcasting class means that most classes can't take the feat.

And if Arcane Spell Failure still applies, Fighters won't be taking the feat either. The Mysteries, on the other hand, could become very popular.

It's looking more powerful than many other feats, by the way.

Well, the reason for the restriction was to prevent casters from gaining too much, though maybe I should simply restrict one from selecting their own class.

Arcane Spell Failure would still apply, but fighters would then simply stay away from arcane spells. Mysteries still have arcane spell failure.

While the feats are powerful overall, you get less out of them than you would through becoming a full spell caster, and you use up feats that you would put elsewhere. Just getting to 7th would take up all of your feats, with the exception to bonus feats.

-Do stuff like engineer or warlock count as a spellcasting class? Evolutionist? Gramarist?

The simple question is, do they cast spells? Mystery users need a separate feat, meaning the slight variation in system is sufficient to require a separate feat. Warlocks, do not cast spells but do possess a caster level. I'd refer to a warlock as an Invocation using class. You can apply the same logic to the others.

If your question boils down to, if they could take the feat.. I'd assume so. The language would have to be changed to that they had to lack a caster level.

Compared to dragonmarks and heritage it takes more feats but actually gives you a choice and has no level requirements so it would be a wash, but with the right build you can get spells before you're supposed to on this (never assume that number of feats available will be a restriction) so char op this wins hands down. Also, I see no downsides to being spontaneous or upsides to being prepared, so you might as well make that upgrade the default. Between that and bonus spells for ability score you're gonna have way more castings than a dragonmark too. So now it's got more uses to go with the lack of level restrictions and being able to choose your own spells. I'd put it firmly in the camp of "not broken in the hands of normal people."

Edit: normally you want to make a feat give you appropriate abilities for the level at which you can take it, which dragonmarks and the heritage legacy feats are quite well calculated into doing. The approach here mostly works on the fact that you normally have less feats than there are spell levels and are theoretically not maxing out that casting stat.

Well, for getting spells earlier than you are supposed to, i'd love to see a build for using this system. I will however direct to one thing: "Special: You may take this feat more than once, you may not take this feat as a bonus feat." This means you are bound to your standard feats. Feats acquired from any source, except for the ones attained at 1st, 3rd, and every 3 levels thereafter, are bonus feats. I put this in, because I immediately knew how to break the system by using such feats. Otherwise, a Human Warrior or Expert with 2 flaws could cast 9th level spells at 3rd level.

I would make the following changes:

Good points. I shall make the appropriate changes

What about infusions?

I'll refer to a quote from Magic of Eberron.

"An artificer can qualify for prestige classes with spell-casting level requirements, even though his infusions aren't spells."

Take your pick honestly. You can go based on that they are not spells, or the fact they can qualify for things that require spells.

[Omnicrat]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. What about a feat for infusions?

Edit: Also, why can't casters take it for their own class if they can take it? Just make a note that spells known and spells per day have to be tracked separately, from these feats. If you do that, you could even, theoretically, take the magical apprentice feat every level, each time gaining a new classes casting.

[Xuldarinar]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. What about a feat for infusions?

Edit: Also, why can't casters take it for their own class if they can take it? Just make a note that spells known and spells per day have to be tracked separately, from these feats. If you do that, you could even, theoretically, take the magical apprentice feat every level, each time gaining a new classes casting.

Or i could expand the feat to include infusions.

And, you make a good point.

[Fizban]

Did not catch the part about "may not take with bonus feats." Mechanically it works but I can't say I like it, feels a little too meta/artificial/whatever. Honestly it's probably a good method of limiting things in a system where you can get more bonus feats than normal feats, and there have been plenty of fighter fix feats that can only be taken in their bonus slots, but I just don't like it.

I think you got rid of the bonus spells for spontaneous but I still don't see a reason to take a prepared version if you can avoid it. Not that I have a fix, I don't really want to give them spellbooks either.

[Xuldarinar]

Did not catch the part about "may not take with bonus feats." Mechanically it works but I can't say I like it, feels a little too meta/artificial/whatever. Honestly it's probably a good method of limiting things in a system where you can get more bonus feats than normal feats, and there have been plenty of fighter fix feats that can only be taken in their bonus slots, but I just don't like it.

I think you got rid of the bonus spells for spontaneous but I still don't see a reason to take a prepared version if you can avoid it. Not that I have a fix, I don't really want to give them spellbooks either.

I agree on the feel. Sadly through feats like this, I think it would take a lot to remove the artificiality.

[peacenlove]

A better wording would be: You may take this feat multiple times, up to a total number of your level / 2 (rounded down)

[Xuldarinar]

A better wording would be: You may take this feat multiple times, up to a total number of your level / 2 (rounded down)

Thank you. That seems to be much more elegant.

[Omnicrat]

That phrasing also gives you a lot more than your number of basic feats. You get level 9 spells at level 16.

[Draken]

An option to change that is to make it so that the feat can only be taken once per 3 character levels (rounded up).

So it would be available at: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19. Seven times, for a maximum of 8th level spells before epic.

[Dead_Jester]

An option to change that is to make it so that the feat can only be taken once per 3 character levels (rounded up).

So it would be available at: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19. Seven times, for a maximum of 8th level spells before epic.

That could work, except feats are given at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18, so with that system, unless you have bonus feats, you would have to wait 2 levels before being able to get new spells at every interval, and would miss the last one. Tying them to the levels were you gain feats would, IMO, make more sense if such a regulation was present.

[Omnicrat]

There is another problem with Draken's system. If it can be taken at first level, that gives you second level spells at first level, and 9th at 19. The feats that this restriction would be applied to are the ones that increase spell level, not the ones that give it to you in the first place.

[Draken]

Well, that was more a preliminary thing, I will admit.

By simply setting the feat to require character level 3 at least and then setting it to the 1/3 round up system, you put the first acquisition at the right level and then the future acquisitions at roughly the proper spots, with the last level only being available if you have a bonus feat to spare when the time is right.