Can Liches Make New Phylacteries?

[Sylthia]

Are liches allowed to make new phylacteries, or are they stuck with the one that they make when they enter lichdom? I'm not sure about other systems, but 3.5 and PF aren't really that clear on the matter.

[Scowling Dragon]

Nope they can't. Otherwise they wouldn't put that much care into protecting theirs.

[Geostationary]

Do you want them to? Does it fit with the metaphysics as you see them? If yes, sure thing! If no, nope!

[LeoLionxxx]

one version I have read dictates that if a phylacterie is destroyed, then the lich may make a new one if he is able to (if he is not killed first).

[AntiTrust]

one version I have read dictates that if a phylacterie is destroyed, then the lich may make a new one if he is able to (if he is not killed first).

Wouldn't it allow the lich to make more than on in advance and as they get destroyed just continually switching to other ones?

It sounds a little bit like how Voldemort did it which I guess in certain games would make it interesting

[Zahhak]

You kind of have multiple options on this, I guess. There's the Horcrux method, as AntiTrust mentions, there's the "I made one, it was destroyed, I'm alive, so I'll make a new one" method, theres the "I made one, it was destroyed, now I'm screwed", the "I made one, it was destroyed, so I'm turning to dust in a minute", and the "I made one, but I want a different one, so, I'll just swap it out" (and variations thereupon) method. Pick one that suits the setting/what you're looking for and you're golden.

The rules of the system you're playing are really whatever you need them to be.

[Sylthia]

The way I thought was liches could replace phylacteries, but could only have one of them at a time. If their phylactery gets destroyed, they can make a new one as well, as long as they aren't killed first.

[RandomNPC]

From what I understand they get one, and can re-create one after it is destroyed. There's a feat called Split Phylactery or something, might be multiple, or many, but the idea is there. It allows more, but I don't know if there's an upper limit or if it just allows one more per feat taking.

[SoC175]

In D&D a lich can't short of epic magic. With the right epic spells however it's possible, also possible to have mutliple at once with the right epic spell

From what I understand they get one, and can re-create one after it is destroyed. There's a feat called Split Phylactery or something, might be multiple, or many, but the idea is there. It allows more, but I don't know if there's an upper limit or if it just allows one more per feat taking.

I don't think it's a feat. The epic spell I am refering above is called something like that.

[Steward]

I don't think there's a specific rule anywhere though. The developers, I think, were very vague in creating rules for liches to allow for a sense of mystery and also to give the DMs more flexibility.

[KillianHawkeye]

Libris Mortis says they cannot make a new one if the first is destroyed.

[Vknight]

Libris Mortis says they cannot make a new one if the first is destroyed.

Yet the Monster Manual says otherwise on the template. And so does the SRD etc

Seriously

I bind my soul to a item and then I cannot rebind it? How its still somewhere, generally implied returning to my undead form meaning once destroyed I stay down

[KillianHawkeye]

Yet the Monster Manual says otherwise on the template. And so does the SRD etc

Seriously

I bind my soul to a item and then I cannot rebind it? How its still somewhere, generally implied returning to my undead form meaning once destroyed I stay down

If you read carefully, I think you'll find that it does not actually say that. Otherwise, please quote the page or section where it does so.

[NEO|Phyte]

Yet the Monster Manual says otherwise on the template. And so does the SRD etc

Seriously

I bind my soul to a item and then I cannot rebind it? How its still somewhere, generally implied returning to my undead form meaning once destroyed I stay down

Your soul returning to your body on its own only makes sense if smashing the phylactery somehow makes you alive again. You're dead, Jim, that's the price you paid to become a lich.

I don't particularly have plans to DM ever, but if I did, my ruling would be that if you can only create a new phylactery if you have access to your soul (most likely involving a trip to the appropriate afterlife and some searching).

[TuggyNE]

Yet the Monster Manual says otherwise on the template. And so does the SRD etc

MMI Lich template, to my knowledge, is quite silent on the issue. As such, LM naturally takes precedence.

[Emmerask]

Yet the Monster Manual says otherwise on the template. And so does the SRD etc

The srd does not state anything about being able to transfer it afterwards.
and this makes absolutely sense imo, you can transfer the lifeforce from your own body to something else, you can´t however transfer your lifeforce from outside your body to somewhere else.

If the srd states otherwise please say where because I do not see it.

[Sylthia]

Your soul returning to your body on its own only makes sense if smashing the phylactery somehow makes you alive again. You're dead, Jim, that's the price you paid to become a lich.

I don't particularly have plans to DM ever, but if I did, my ruling would be that if you can only create a new phylactery if you have access to your soul (most likely involving a trip to the appropriate afterlife and some searching).

I thought the lich's soul stayed with the lich until it was destroyed, and then it transferred to the phylactery.

[SinsI]

Of course they can! They just have to be destroyed and resurrected - after which they can transform into a Lich again.

[TheOOB]

By RAW I'm fairly certain they cannot, but really it depends on the DM. How dangerous do you want the lich to be, how recurring should they be, do they know when their phylatery has been destroyed? It's an important question.

[Rhynn]

Wouldn't it allow the lich to make more than on in advance and as they get destroyed just continually switching to other ones?

It sounds a little bit like how Voldemort did it which I guess in certain games would make it interesting

There's a lich in the Forgotten Realms, Aumvor the Undying, who has 206 phylacteries (a full human skeleton, each bone a phylactery). This was achieved with an Epic Spell, IIRC, called Split Phylactery or something. In order to stop him coming back, you have to destroy every last phylactery. Doing that is pretty hard, because you'd have to kill him, then find and destroy all of them (each hidden and protected as well as an epic lich can) before he comes back and starts splitting them again.

[Vknight]

Your soul returning to your body on its own only makes sense if smashing the phylactery somehow makes you alive again. You're dead, Jim, that's the price you paid to become a lich.

I don't particularly have plans to DM ever, but if I did, my ruling would be that if you can only create a new phylactery if you have access to your soul (most likely involving a trip to the appropriate afterlife and some searching).

Are you saying undead don't have souls?
Next you'll say they can't get dismemberment insurance when they lose a arm to the thresher. Or that the church can't heal them because they are horrible abominations
Poor Undead should not get this violent Anti-Undead behavior they have rights!

I have a dream where each undead may walk the halls of his home without a random cleric barging in and threatening there life!

[Scow2]

Are you saying undead don't have souls?
Next you'll say they can't get dismemberment insurance when they lose a arm to the thresher. Or that the church can't heal them because they are horrible abominations
Poor Undead should not get this violent Anti-Undead behavior they have rights!

I have a dream where each undead may walk the halls of his home without a random cleric barging in and threatening there life!

...Have you been hanging out with Tsukiko again?

[Mastikator]

Says in the SRD that the phylactery stores the Lich's life force, which may or may not be the soul.

Theoretically, if the phylactery is destroyed before the Lich the life force either escapes and the lich is simply undead forever or it returns to the lich and it becomes either simply alive or probably dead.

Surely the lich would be able to tinker with the phylactery, or put it's life force in multiple phylacteries (though, once destroyed each bit would go away and the lich becomes weakened, or something, more undead and vicious maybe)

[SoC175]

Yet the Monster Manual says otherwise on the template. And so does the SRD etc

As has been pointed out, it actually doesn't.

Seriously

I bind my soul to a item and then I cannot rebind it? How its still somewhere, generally implied returning to my undead form meaning once destroyed I stay down

As long as your undead body is not destroyed the binding only makes it a safe haven into which your soul can retreat should your body be destroyed. But the soul is not in there as long as your body is intact it's merely an empty vessel awaiting your soul.

Says in the SRD that the phylactery stores the Lich's life force, which may or may not be the soul.

However it only stores it when the lich's body is destroyed.

Theoretically, if the phylactery is destroyed before the Lich the life force either escapes and the lich is simply undead forever or it returns to the lich and it becomes either simply alive or probably dead.

In this case nothing happens, because it's only an empty vessel until the lich is destroyed.

[NEO|Phyte]

As long as your undead body is not destroyed the binding only makes it a safe haven into which your soul can retreat should your body be destroyed. But the soul is not in there as long as your body is intact it's merely an empty vessel awaiting your soul.
However it only stores it when the lich's body is destroyed.
In this case nothing happens, because it's only an empty vessel until the lich is destroyed.

The Lich’s Phylactery

An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death.

A quick check of libris mortis shows no contradicting text.

The phylactery is not a bolt-hole for the lich's life force to enter in the event of the lich getting destroyed, it is where the lich stores its life force.

[Vknight]

...Have you been hanging out with Tsukiko again?

Possibly?
I may also be suffering from mania. Also it seems stupid to me for a Lich to not be able to find and rebind your life-force.
The importance of the Phlactery comes from the fact whens its broke it takes 10 days to make a new one. So your vulnerable. And even after you make it you need a new hiding place for it

Either it stores your soul well you regenerate
so make a new one

Or

It holds your soul and then it returns to your body until you make a new one or are killed

[Issabella]

In one of the FR villians book, one of the epic Netherse liches developed a spell to make copies/fragments of his phalactery. I believe he had 27 at that point...

[Rhynn]

Either it stores your soul well you regenerate
so make a new one

Or

It holds your soul and then it returns to your body until you make a new one or are killed

What about the obvious third option?

That is, "souls can't just fly back into their bodies, so when the phylactery is destroyed, your soul is e.g., lost, shattered, destroyed, rent, taken into hell, crystallizes into a black tear in the upper atmosphere and falls into random part of the world, etc."

There's probably others, too. The soul gets loose and may become a ghost, maybe even a special kind of ghost, etc.

NB: "Soulless" does not automatically mean "mindless" (indeed, I think at least some zombies specifically maybe souls bound into corpses).

[Sylthia]

Are you saying undead don't have souls?
Next you'll say they can't get dismemberment insurance when they lose a arm to the thresher. Or that the church can't heal them because they are horrible abominations
Poor Undead should not get this violent Anti-Undead behavior they have rights!

I have a dream where each undead may walk the halls of his home without a random cleric barging in and threatening there life!

Well, most churches can't heal them because positive energy hurts them.

[TuggyNE]

Well, most churches can't heal them because positive energy hurts them.

Don't Explain The Joke, neh?