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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    So, I have whipped up a new monster somewhat according to the 3.5 guidelines for my campain. It is supposed to be a result of a humanoid dipped in an acidic alchemical solution, which, as the acid burns away the flesh, inpenetrates the body and gives it extraordinary combat abilities, of course, at the cost of ones sanity, ability to differentiate between friend and foe, and such. I plan for an NPC to take a dip as well, it should provide for an interesting encounter .

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    Mutated Goblin
    Large Aberration (Augmented Humanoid [Goblinoid])
    Hit Dice:
    6d8+18 (45 hp)
    Initiative: +0
    Speed: 40 ft
    Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +8 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 17
    Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
    Attack: Claw +11 melee (1d8+7 plus 1d4 acid)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d8+7 plus 1d4 acid)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
    Special attacks: Acid Spit, Toxic Fumes
    Special Qualities: DR 5/magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to acid and poison, mindless
    Saves: Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +2
    Abilities: Str 20 (+5), Dex 10 (+0), Con 16 (+3), Int -, Wis 6 (-2), Cha 1 (-5)
    Skills: -
    Feats: Power AttackB, Combat ExpertiseB
    Environment: Acidic pits of alchemical hell of my custom dungeon.
    Organisation: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 5
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Advancement: 7-9 HD (Large), 10-12 HD (Huge)
    Level adjustment: -

    This creature bears traits of a large, grossly disfigured humanoid. It is covered in unnaturally swollen flesh, and is strongly asymmetrical. Its skin is covered in acidic burns, missing at places, and toughened by the hell it went through. Streaks of green liquid and sickening acidic fumes follow this creature, making it even more horrendous. It is fueled by primal instincts, fury, and madness caused by persistent agony. It is devoid of any ability to think other than to lash out at others and to protect itself.

    This mutant goblin was unfortunate enough to fall into the horrid pits of acidic alchemical solution of Turraz-Ghul. As the acid burned away its flesh, it gave it extraordinary combat abilities, at the cost of the its sanity. These mindless brutes walk the places of their agony, attacking madly when anything gets in sight.

    Mutant goblins stand 10 to 12 feet tall and weigh 650 to 800 pounds. Their skin color ranges from burnt black to flesh-wound red. They do not speak or understand any language, as their mind has suffered complete and utter madness, but they may give out roars or grunts. They will never withdraw after entering a fight, but may lose interest in foes who flee out of sight. They strongly reek of acid.

    COMBAT

    Mutant goblins attack anything on sight.

    Acid spit (Ex): Once every 1d4 rounds as a standard action, a mutant goblin may spit acid at a single foe within 30 feet with a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d6 points of acid damage. Any target that is hit with acid must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 16) or also be blinded for 1d4+1 rounds. The save is Constitution-based.

    Toxic Fumes (Ex): The acidic fumes surrounding these creatures are toxic. Living creatures within 10 feet must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1d6+4 minutes. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same mutant goblin's fumes for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from a sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws. The save DC is Constitution-based.




    First of all, I am not entirely sure about the type it should be. I guess that oficially, it should be an acquired template, not a monster by itself, but a template like that would be ridiculous, so screw that.

    Second of all, I do not know what should be the solution against its DR. I wanted something pretty oposite to acid, but I couldn't come up with anything. Would cold iron make sense, since the monster was created by magical/alchemical means? EDIT: Okay, I guess /magic works, but I am afraid that it won't have a big impact that way.

    Third, the feats. I added the Iron Will just to make it playable gamewise, since its low Will could mean disastrous stuff, especially in the hands of my (not entirely heroic) party, but I don't feel it makes a lot of sense. Do you find this acceptable?

    Fourth, any balance issues, CR ratings, playability problems, and stuff like that. I would love to avoid a TPK.

    Thank you very much, any help is truly appreciated.
    Last edited by kravaros; 2013-05-31 at 10:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Quote Originally Posted by kravaros View Post
    Mutated goblinoid (yeah, I need a cooler name)
    Monstrous Humanoid/Abberation/Giant, Large
    Ok so what type is it? I would go with aberration
    HD: 6d8+18 (45)
    I think HP should be 38, i might be wrong though
    Init: +0
    Speed: 40 ft
    AC: 19 (-1 size, +10 natural), touch 9, FF 19
    Egads, why such a high natural armor?
    Base attack/grapple: +6/+15
    Attack: claw +11 (1d8+8+1d4 acid)
    Full attack: 2 claws +11 (1d8+8+1d4 acid)
    Standard
    Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
    Special attacks: Acid spit (1d6 acid, DC 14 Reflex blinding, 1d4 rounds cooldown, standart action)
    How long are they blinded?
    Special qualities: Immunity to acid, DR 10/?, Darkvision 60 ft.
    DR at such a low level? DR 10? I would remove it or replace it with DR 5, and if you really want DR I would go DR 5/magic
    Saves: Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +4
    Abilities: Str 20(+5) Dex 10(+0) Con 16(+3) Int 3(-4) Wis 6(-2) Cha 3 (-4)
    Skills: -
    Feats: Iron will, Improved natural armor, Power attack
    I would make it mindless and therefore immune to mind influencing effects.
    Environment: Acidic pits of alchemical hell of my custom dungeon.
    Organisation: Solitary
    Is this thing a solo boss?
    CR: 4-6
    DR on: 7, DR off: 5
    Treasure: none
    If its a solo boss it needs treasure :O
    Alingment: Chaotic Neutral
    not evil?
    Advancement: any
    any what...class levels? I would suggest this, 7-9 HD Large, 10-12 HD huge
    Level adjustment: -
    First of all, I am not entirely sure about the type it should be. I guess that oficially, it should be an acquired template, not a monster by itself, but a template like that would be ridiculous, so screw that.

    Second of all, I do not know what should be the solution against its DR. I wanted something pretty oposite to acid, but I couldn't come up with anything. Would cold iron make sense, since the monster was created by magical/alchemical means?

    Third, the feats. I added the Iron Will just to make it playable gamewise, since its low Will could mean disastrous stuff, especially in the hands of my (not entirely heroic) party, but I don't feel it makes a lot of sense. Do you find this acceptable?

    Fourth, any balance issues, CR ratings, playability problems, and stuff like that. I would love to avoid a TPK.

    Thank you very much, any help is truly appreciated.
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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Thank you very much :D

    I wasn't sure if aberration, but sure, why not.

    HP: average hp for 1d8 is 4.5 (directly from MM1)

    Both natural armor and the DR are supposed to be results of the acid-induced transformation of their skin, that is why. I dont think the AC is unreasonable, since they dont wear armor.

    Blindness: thanks, I wouldnt have caught that. I guess 1d4+1 rounds would be reasonable, although this is not a big deal as the save DC is low.

    I wanted the DR for two reasons: first, lorewise (as with natural armor) and second, the fighter of the party has such good stats that he managed to beat up a Large skeleton with DR 5 and fast healing 5 at 3rd lvl. Thus, DR 10.
    I am a bit worried that if I make it /magic, it is not going to have any impact, since the melee users will already have magic weapons/ki strikes, and the casters wont care anyway.

    If its mindless, does that mean no int? what wis and cha then?

    No, it is not meant to be a solo boss. Since it will only be found in an innately acidic environment, PCs should already have Resist acid anyway, which should weaken it a bit. It is solitary just because it is too stupid to search company.

    Thanks for the CR, seems good.

    The reason it does not have treasure is, that by its very nature, it is a low level NPC/monster who fell in acid and enlarged. Since it was low level, it didn't have much to begin with, then it fell, lost its shield and weapon, melted its gold and equip in acid, and enlarged enough to burst its armor and any backpacks that did not melt yet. Afterwards it became mindless, so it did not seek any treasure.

    It is not evil, because it is just insane: the magic/alchemy didnt corrupt its mind, it just made it mindlessly bloody mad, whatever its original alingment was.

    The advancement seems good, thanks.


    Overall, I am really gratefull, this is a big help to me
    Last edited by kravaros; 2013-05-25 at 03:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    2 point, it really should have a paragraph describing it's appearance and its origins. It should also have a category giving the crunch of it abiltys (I know it's got the crunch for it's special ability, right next to it, but for convenience it should have it's own section).

    Hope this helped
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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Thanks, willdo :D

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    It seems aberration-y to me.

    DR 10 at this point is fairly killer, maybe some fast healing instead? If you do with the DR, i think 5/Magic or 5/Slashing or Piercing might do the trick (this thing has no skin -- it should be pretty easy to make its guts fall out).

    Where is the +8 damage coming from? It doesn't look like it is power attacking...

    Might I suggest a noxious cloud ability, similar to a ghast?

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Ok, I am going with aberration, officially.

    I will rework the DR then.

    +8 dmg is from 1-1/2 strength which, according to MM, should be applied to all primary attacks. I rounded up, as this monster is combat oriented.

    Noxious cloud meaning Fort save or sickened for 1d6+x minutes? Sure, why not, it fits the theme, but isn't it quite powerfull?

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    You first have to decide what the mutation changes. If it changes the Type, then it could be Aberration. If it also adds the Augmented Subtype, then you you could have Aberration (Augmented Humanoid [Goblinoid]). Augmented subtype always refers to the original Type. A creature only has one Type but can have multiple Subtypes. Goblinoid is a subtype of Humanoid so it goes in the brackets to clarify.

    This would be how it starts:

    Mutated Goblin
    Large Aberration (Augmented Humanoid [Goblinoid])


    Are those extra hit dice from the mutation or does your mutated goblin have a class? If you say the mutation adds the HD then it would be:
    Hit Dice: 6d8+18 (45 hp)

    The average hit points on a d8 is 4.5. 6x4.5=27 + 18 = 45. The bonus hit points are 6 times the creature's Con modifier (+3).

    You need to learn how to balance things a bit better. +10 natural armor is very tough, tougher than dragonhide for CR. Note that CR is NEVER a range. It is either CR 4 or CR 6. If you are aiming for CR 6, then Natural Armor should probably be no higher than +6. If you are aiming for CR 4, natural armor is probably no more than +4. Just because a creature can't wear armor is no reason to give it natural armor bonuses that overpowered.

    A creature that can spit acid needs a range. How far can a mutant goblin spit its acid? 5 feet? 10 feet? This should be its maximum range (spitting has no range increments).

    Attacks that are of different kinds (physical damage and acid damage) are written like this:

    Attack: claw +11 melee (1d8+8 plus 1d4 acid)
    Full attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d8+8 plus 1d4 acid)

    More on this later.

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Thanks, some of this clears stuff up. Edited to make it reflect the changes.

    The reason I gave it such high natural armor was because it was meant to be a tough monster, but you are right, I lowered it. However, is it so uncommon? The ogre zombie (CR 3) has natural armor +8, umber hulk zombie (CR 5) +10, this is a CR 7 monster (at least for now). Why not natural armor +10?

    Yes, I know CR isn't a range, it was meant to say "I dont know the CR, help me assign it somewhere in this range."

    So far, I thank everybody on their contributions, you've all been a great help to me :)

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    One of the things you'll notice is that CR encompasses a creature's strengths and weaknesses to challenge a 4-person PC party of a certain level.

    Ogre zombies hit harder and have longer reach, but are slow, resulting in their lower CR.

    What ability did you base the acid spit save on? Saves are usually 10 + 1/2 creature's HD + relevant ability modifier. I'm not sure how you got DC 14 for the Reflex save.

    Acid Spit (Ex): Once every 1d4 rounds as a standard action, a mutant may spit acid at a single foe within 30 feet with a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d6 points acid damage. Any target that is hit with acid must succeed on a Reflex save (DC X) or also be blinded for 1d4+1 rounds. The save is X-based. [you need to fill out the Xs depending on which ability you base this on.]

    Mindless creatures do not get skills or feats. All of its feats must be bonus feats.

    Improved Natural Armor is usually a poor choice of feats for a creature. That means that it cannot get better NA if it changes size later. I recommend that you simply give it power attack as a bonus feat.

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Quote Originally Posted by kravaros View Post
    +8 dmg is from 1-1/2 strength which, according to MM, should be applied to all primary attacks. I rounded up, as this monster is combat oriented.
    Actually, you always round down in D&D numbers (i.e., damage, HP, AC, saves, whatever; any time you have a fraction, round down). So it should be 1d8+7.
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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    @Debihuman:
    Yes, I do know, however, the Umber Hulk, for example is also CR 7. It is also combat oriented, it has more HD and hp, it does more dmg, better abilities and saving throws, also some special attacks, can burrow, better AC and the same natural armor, and on top of that, its intelligent and usually prepares traps before encounter. Now I feel I either need to make this monster CR 6, or possibly increase the AC. I felt the second option was a good solution, however, if you still find that high natural armor ridiculous, I will probably go from that idea.

    I admit, I fudged both of the DCs (and the Will save too, btw). I'll edit that, and probably base the spit on Con. If I were to make it based on on Dex, there would be no need for the ranged touch attack roll, and the DC would be too low anyway.

    Yeah, I know it gets only bonus feats, that is why it only has 2 feats and not 3 it would get normally. I thought both Power Attack and INA fit the theme (a huge brute with hard hide), so I granted them for bonus feats. If you think that is redundant, I'll remove that. Btw, why is Improved Natural Armor usually a poor choice for a creature? Since I dont work with these feats that often, I am not sure how exactly they influence your later advancement of NA, so I'd be glad to learn.

    @tuggyne: Thanks, I'll edit that in.

    Thanks a lot, both of you, it truly is really helpful

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Quote Originally Posted by kravaros View Post
    Yeah, I know it gets only bonus feats, that is why it only has 2 feats and not 3 it would get normally.
    It's not the number of bonus feats that are the issue; bonus feats are noted as (B) or B so that it's clear that they are bonus feats.

    I thought both Power Attack and INA fit the theme (a huge brute with hard hide), so I granted them for bonus feats. If you think that is redundant, I'll remove that. Btw, why is Improved Natural Armor usually a poor choice for a creature? Since I don't work with these feats that often, I am not sure how exactly they influence your later advancement of NA, so I'd be glad to learn.
    Power Attack makes a lot of sense so it can hit for more damage. A tougher hide makes sense, but requiring the use of a feat to do it doesn't. You simply assign what the mutated ability does. When the creature advances (gains more HD), it could then take the feat but it's sorta wasted if you could have assigned the number without the feat. Why not just have +8 be the standard?

    Is the creature immune to its own toxic fumes? I would think so. But you aren't clear whether it is immune to the toxic fumes of other mutated creatures. Generally that is the case, but you should state so nonetheless.

    I would give it one more bonus feat. Rather than Improved Natural Armor, how about Combat Expertise? It is a bonus feat so the creature doesn't have to qualify for the feat. It gives it a nice dodge bonus in case it is losing badly.

    Now with edits as of 5/31/13.

    Mutated Goblin
    Large Aberration (Augmented Humanoid [Goblinoid])
    Hit Dice:
    6d8+18 (45 hp)
    Initiative: +0
    Speed: 40 ft
    Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +8 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 17
    Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
    Attack: Claw +11 melee (1d8+7 plus 1d4 acid)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d8+7 plus 1d4 acid)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
    Special attacks: Acid Spit, Toxic Fumes
    Special Qualities: DR 5/magic, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to acid and poison, mindless
    Saves: Fort +8, Ref +2, Will +2
    Abilities: Str 20 (+5), Dex 10 (+0), Con 16 (+3), Int -, Wis 6 (-2), Cha 1 (-5)
    Skills: -
    Feats: Power AttackB, Combat ExpertiseB
    Environment: Acidic pits of alchemical hell of my custom dungeon.
    Organisation: Solitary
    Challenge Rating: 5
    Treasure: None
    Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
    Advancement: 7-9 HD (Large), 10-12 HD (Huge)
    Level adjustment: -

    This creature bears traits of a large, grossly disfigured humanoid. It is covered in unnaturally swollen flesh, and is strongly asymmetrical. Its skin is covered in acidic burns, missing at places, and toughened by the hell it went through. Streaks of green liquid and sickening acidic fumes follow this creature, making it even more horrendous. It is fueled by primal instincts, fury, and madness caused by persistent agony. It is devoid of any ability to think other than to lash out at others and to protect itself.

    This mutant goblin was unfortunate enough to fall into the horrid pits of acidic alchemical solution of Turraz-Ghul. As the acid burned away its flesh, it gave it extraordinary combat abilities, at the cost of the its sanity. These mindless brutes walk the places of their agony, attacking madly when anything gets in sight.

    Mutant goblins stand 10 to 12 feet tall and weigh 650 to 800 pounds. Their skin color ranges from burnt black to flesh-wound red. They do not speak or understand any language, as their mind has suffered complete and utter madness, but they may give out roars or grunts. They will never withdraw after entering a fight, but may lose interest in foes who flee out of sight. They strongly reek of acid.

    COMBAT

    Mutant goblins attack anything on sight.

    Acid spit (Ex): Once every 1d4 rounds as a standard action, a mutant goblin may spit acid at a single foe within 30 feet with a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d6 points of acid damage. Any target that is hit with acid must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 16) or also be blinded for 1d4+1 rounds. The save is Constitution-based.

    Toxic Fumes (Ex): The acidic fumes surrounding these creatures are toxic. Living creatures within 10 feet must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1d6+4 minutes. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same mutant goblin's fumes for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from a sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws. The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-05-30 at 11:41 PM.
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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    hmm, this could have some application in my world of Belladonis, where acids are plentiful.
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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    @Debby:
    Thanks, I've edited it to reflect your suggestions. Thanks for the INA explanation, makes sense. Combat expertise makes sense playwise, not that sure how exactly lorewise, but sure, why not.
    Mutant goblins are immune to their own toxic fumes and to the fumes of other mutant goblins, but are not immune to the toxic fumes of other mutant creatures.
    Is it necessary, since you gave it immunity to poison? Should it even have immunity to poison? It still is a living, metabolising organism, however disfigured by magic it might be.

    My major concern right now is the CR. I believe it to be too high: compare its abilities to those of a chimera (also CR 7). The bloody chimera has almost two times as much average hp, better saves, five attacks per round, most of them at a higher bonus, it has a breath attack, and it freaking flies. I dare say we have either overated this mutant, or the chimera is underated. This would lead me to lower this monsters CR, if you agree. I will probably go playtesting it as soon as I have time for that, but I think CR 7 might be a bit too much.

    @LordErebus12: feel free to use it, although as you see, it mightn't yet be completely balanced and finished product :D

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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Quote Originally Posted by kravaros View Post
    @Debby:
    Thanks, I've edited it to reflect your suggestions. Thanks for the INA explanation, makes sense. Combat expertise makes sense playwise, not that sure how exactly lorewise, but sure, why not.
    Glad to help

    Is it necessary, since you gave it immunity to poison? Should it even have immunity to poison? It still is a living, metabolising organism, however disfigured by magic it might be.
    I wasn't sure if toxic fumes of other mutant creatures were also poison based. It was a redundancy that covered that situation. I've edited my version now.

    My major concern right now is the CR. I believe it to be too high: compare its abilities to those of a chimera (also CR 7). The bloody chimera has almost two times as much average hp, better saves, five attacks per round, most of them at a higher bonus, it has a breath attack, and it freaking flies. I dare say we have either over-rated this mutant, or the chimera is under-rated. This would lead me to lower this monsters CR, if you agree. I will probably go playtesting it as soon as I have time for that, but I think CR 7 might be a bit too much.
    The mutant goblin should have a lower CR. I didn't test it out (this is my fault as I'm not sure where I got that number from). This might be CR 5 rather than CR 7. I didn't put it through the VT's estimator. Changed CR to 5.

    Debby
    Last edited by Debihuman; 2013-05-30 at 11:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    I think this should get rewritten as a template. that way any creature could get mutated.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    kravaros's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013

    Default Re: Custom 3.5 mutated monster

    Debby, I continue being extremely grateful for all the effort you are pouring into this. I edited my version to resemble yours.
    The mutant goblin should have a lower CR. I didn't test it out (this is my fault as I'm not sure where I got that number from). This might be CR 5 rather than CR 7. I didn't put it through the VT's estimator. Changed CR to 5.
    The number came from one of the earlier contributors, Inuyasha, although I might've misunderstood his intentions. This is in no way your fault - you bear no responsibility to do this in the first place, so blaming yourself is quite absurd. Thanks for everything so far.

    LordErebus12, yes, it technically probably should be a template. There is a couple of reasons why I didn't make it as one:

    I expect it would be messy and probably useless. There are so many changes that the base and final creature have almost nothing in common anymore, and I imagine that the mutant made out of any humanoid would look about the same. I suggest you just use advancement for humanoids and other bipeds of different strength and size (and possibly add a gore attack in a mutant minotaur or such), but I wouldn't go as far as create template for that unless you plan to use this very extensively. I personally did plan to manage them on a case by case basis.

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