Are Goo-Girls a legit fantasy archetype?

[tbok1992]

If the axiom that all 4chan's /tg/ browsers also browse /d/ is true (No Shame! Cobra Kai!) then you've probably heard of the concept of Goo-Girls (Though they can be amel or female, Goo-Girls are just more common in the parlance), humanoid versions of the classic RPG slime monster made for the purposes of fetish fuel. But, I do wonder, do any of you think the concept is valid enough to exist in mainstream fantasy, not just the fetiish-y kind.

I mean, the idea of a humanoid made of malleable slime and based off of a relatively iconic/minor monster-type does seem like it has a lot of hooks for worldbuilding, and the idea does have precedent in D&D (The Slyths, Gahanadauans and, to a lesser extent, Magens), and it might be nice to add a new archetype to the "stable" of fantasy races.

So, do you think the concept could become a "thing" beyond the fetish fuel of lonely nerds (NO SHAME! COBRA KAI!)?

[Mastikator]

Human shaped slime monsters, like that guy in Deep Space 9, the head of security guy who was actually a slime creature from the other side of the wormhole?
Other than that I've never heard of a "goo-girl", I only visit 4chan when I'm feeling macabre.

[Grinner]

A sentient ooze? I don't know how much precedent there is, but sure, why not?

I imagine they would split to reproduce, so their society and culture might seem a bit alien. (No nuclear families, after all.)

[JusticeZero]

I don't see why not. Be prepared to raise eyebrows when you pitch your campaign concept. Someone in my family added noble catlike people as a race, and closed his own game because of all the players meowing. This has similar potential to turn into a silly thing.

[Axinian]

I don't see why not. Sure. There are other things that are easily turned into fetishes that can be taken seriously in D&D... not sure how many of those I want to name but they're there.

[Jay R]

Before that question can be answered, we need some background material: What are they for? What kind of fun adventure do they allow?

You cannot evaluate an idea without knowing what the idea is for.

[JusticeZero]

I can think of all sorts of interesting setting roles they might have that can create adventures. Most of those are exclusive. They aren't any less sensible than tieflings or aasimar or half-dragons.

[Mando Knight]

Define "legitimate" and "fantasy" (particularly together) (and "goo girl") to get a clearer answer. If "legitimate fantasy" includes 10' cubes of acidic JELL-O lurking in catacombs and flying fire-breathing lizards the size of a house (and can successfully breed with any living corporeal creature) and "goo girl" means a race of sentient oozes that can take humanoid form, then probably. If it includes hyper-logical elves with odd polearms and bumpy-headed orcs with strange double swords and "goo girl" means a race that abhors "solids" but sends out scouts to "blend in" and watch and learn from them anyway, then you just have a medieval fantasy Star Trek, and the question becomes "do you like DS9?"

The concept as has been codified by fetish sites, however, is generally devoid of merit in a "legitimate fantasy," unless you define the terms to include sexual fantasies actually held by fetishists... wherein you begin to ask something akin to "does e² + πi belong in a set that includes all irrational imaginary numbers?"

[Kalirren]

I thought that's what elementals -were-. Goo-girl-like things are always what I picture when I flip through the SRD and see the stat blocks divorced of any art.

What do the elementals in the PHB look like anyhow? *goes to look*

[CRtwenty]

Well first off I wouldn't call them "Goo Girls". But intelligent ooze type monsters would probably fit in most fantasy settings. The humanoid thing would probably just be a shape they take to interact with people.

I've never understood why people are attracted to slime girls. But I've seen it floating around enough places that it seems to be a pretty established thing.

[JusticeZero]

*shrugs* I think they're cute. I wouldn't want to *do* anything with one, but they're visually interesting. Kind've like a sentient piece of abstract art. I also think furry art is visually appealing, again without actually having any sort of attraction to any of the characters or philosophies associated in it. I assume the fetishists like the art as well, and also have an association with the art that I lack. If they actually exist in great numbers, which I have my doubts about.

Most of the stuff people associate with fetishes in the art department is really just a type of exotic humanoid that people draw because the alien-ness lets them dodge the uncanny valley problems. Of course people draw naked figures a lot because clothes are hard, and female because males are shaped weirdly.

I'm not sure how many "fetishists" there actually are so much as people who like to perv over shortcutted cartoon art instead of photographs of real and presumably inconvenienced and awkward real females in insufficiently-exotic scenes. A lot of racy photos make me think "posing for that stuff looks like a boring and awkward day job.." So I don't see any of the subjects of said art as being suddenly taboo just for being a popular art concept.

A goo that can take a humanoid shape to interact with humans isn't actually any odder than a transparent cubical goo. There may be some crunch issues with figuring out their normal mobility and equipment use - i mean, it's going to be harder for something amorphous to swing a sword without it slipping out of its hand, for instance. And how would a goo prefer to move around? is there something that locks it in a humanoid form, like the cubes? There's probably a story there. But it's probably going to vary by setting.

[Hunter Noventa]

I actually thought of trying to make something like that once for a campaign, a goo-girl that is, but the only thing I could find was an Amorphous template in savage species, but all it did was severely reduce intelligence and change your type to Ooze.

Makes me want to take a crack at trying to homebrew something like that. The biggest problem would be equipment I think...unless you made it more like the DS9 changelings in that they look humanoid most of the time, and have to go to their 'natural' form after so long. likely during sleep. Possibilities exist, i guess.

[Mordar]

Well, there have been amorphous sentient critters as player races in other games - Dralasites in Star Frontiers, SpellJammer and D20 Future - so there is at least some precedent. I suspect there have been others as well, and perhaps some in fantasy-themed games (as opposed to Sci-Fi themed games as above).

- M

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, this might be a hard one to pitch in a serious game due to their association with certain forms of material of, shall we say, fantasy of different sort. A simple sentient ooze would probably easier to handle than something that forms into a female humanoid shaped mass, especially in a sci-fi game. But in typical fantasy? Not so much.

[Terraoblivion]

A sentient ooze? I don't know how much precedent there is, but sure, why not?

I imagine they would split to reproduce, so their society and culture might seem a bit alien. (No nuclear families, after all.)

That is what you find alien about sentient slime creatures? Their family structure? I would have thought their metabolism, reproduction and general biological needs would come before family structures. A lack of ability to easily make tools seems pretty up there too.

[tbok1992]

I actually thought of trying to make something like that once for a campaign, a goo-girl that is, but the only thing I could find was an Amorphous template in savage species, but all it did was severely reduce intelligence and change your type to Ooze.

Well, there's the Slyth from the 3e Underdark book, though it comes with a pretty nasty LA, and there's also Mystara's Magens, who are basically wizard-created servitors made out of gel. So D&D does have precedent for it.

[Grinner]

That is what you find alien about sentient slime creatures? Their family structure? I would have thought their metabolism, reproduction and general biological needs would come before family structures. A lack of ability to easily make tools seems pretty up there too.

Why, yes. Allow me to elaborate...in (terrible) verse!

There once was a man
who sat on the can
thinking about sentient ooze.

He sat there rapt
and quickly tapped
the first thing that seemed true.

His heart full of irreverence,
he had thought only of relevance
to the games of me and you.

"What does it matter how they eat!"
he said, standing upon his feet,
"I think they can make do!"

[Xefas]

From our very own homebrew forums, courtesy of Lix_Lorn: Estilkians, Sentient Goo-People.

So, at least you aren't the only one to have the idea.

[Excession]

For mainstream examples, there's also Inque from Batman Beyond. Crazy powerful, but she had some serious weaknesses to go with it.

[JusticeZero]

Also, there's the origin that i've used before for similar such species: the original template was created by magic for whatever pervy or ridiculous reason people expect, but that role is not actually inherent to their nature. As a result, the children of the originals do NOT follow that stereotype, and instead carve out a completely different culture for themselves. This can cause that culture to actually be reactionary against the stereotype - depict them as being completely counter to the stereotype, a bit like a number of minorities of a group stereotyped as being poor and slovenly who are insistent on always wearing more formal clothes than anyone else around them.

[Vknight]

I have somewhere a wizard.
And the idea for him was, he loved art of any sort.

Stone or Iron Golems built into specific shapes.
And a slew of Goo Girls that were to take on abstract shapes, designs etc

Also they are adorable just so adorable.

[Rhynn]

Ghaunadans are intelligent slime-things that take humanoid shape in the Forgotten Realms, and go back at least to AD&D 2E. Wouldn't quite call that an "archetype" yet, but hey.

The Call of Cthulhu RPG has Shoggoth Lords, intelligent shoggoths that are capable of taking human shape (although usually appearing corpulent and a bit "wrong"); one of the older editions of CoC, with the series of full-page color paintings in the middle, had a horrible image of a skinless-looking fat physician that I always associate with shoggoth lords. (That art was freaking horrifying when I was a little kid.) Shoggoths, meanwhile, are basically the original ooze monster (although in D&D, the gibbering mouther is a closer match).

[Crasical]

Is an idea less legitimate because it is sexually stimulating? Does that not mean that the genre falls apart the first time someone with a fetish for elves (halflings, orcs...) enters the game?

[Rhynn]

Is an idea less legitimate because it is sexually stimulating? Does that not mean that the genre falls apart the first time someone with a fetish for elves (halflings, orcs...) enters the game?

"Oh, sweetie. Sweetie honey. That was never, ever a hindrance."

Incidentally, even the BoEF doesn't ponder this stuff. It just observes that slimes reproduce by splitting.

[DigoDragon]

"Oh, sweetie. Sweetie honey. That was never, ever a hindrance."

Um... yeah. Scary and true.


Anyway, I just wanted to say that these kinds of ideas can become a more serious "thing" beyond a fetish, *IF* your players are willing to be mature and work with you on it.

For example,

Spoiler

Show

My group was recently in a homebrew campaign I had been running for a few years and one of the races is essentially "catgirls". However, my players didn't stick on the usual cliches of a catgirl. We actually created a rich history for the race and took the idea seriously enough that now they are a society of builders (somewhat like dwarves).
Its one of the more popular race my players enjoy picking and they have a good variety of different character concepts using them.

[GnomeFighter]

Is an idea less legitimate because it is sexually stimulating? Does that not mean that the genre falls apart the first time someone with a fetish for elves (halflings, orcs...) enters the game?

No, the whole thing falls apart as soon as you look at the drawings of leather armour (especially female leather armour) in most source books.

Anyway, I see no problem with the concept, just the name and the pitching of it. Pitch it as a sentient ooze and go from there. Do not use the phrase Goo Girl as the first thing one of the group will do is get out there phone and search for "Goo Girl"... What you will find is most defiantly not PG13...

[Jay R]

First, no, they are not a fantasy archetype.

But yes, you can use them if you want to. Flumphs, Gelatinous Cubes, Acid Sharks, and many other D&D monsters aren't fantasy archetypes either.

But before introducing goo girls into your game, ask yourself what they add.

Do they represent a serious threat? Are they valuable for some purpose? Do they have something the PCs need? Why is this encounter goo girls instead of humans?

Why are you using them?

[Terraoblivion]

First, no, they are not a fantasy archetype.

Given how frequently they come up, it seems like, yes, they are. Even if the kind of fantasy they're an archetype in is mostly Japanese porn inspired by Dragon Quest. It's still fantasy and a rather common kind given how insanely productive Japan is and how dominant in shaping the view of fantasy that Dragon Quest is over there and it is by no means always porn they show up in either.

[Mewtarthio]

I kind of feel like it defeats the whole point of goo when you give it human form (unless you're going all T-1000 with malleability and rapid shapeshifting).

[Steward]

A creature that may fit this archetype may be the yochlols featured in Fiendish Codex 1. These creatures, which are portrayed as the handmaidens of the drow spider-goddess Lolth, are sentient lumps of foul slime that have the power to reconstitute themselves into alternate forms, including attractive women or spiders. They are demons and play a similar role for Lolth's faction that erinyes do for devils and succubi do for the tanar'ri (demonkind).