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    Default [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    PANTHEURGE
    "In my line of work, there is only one thing you need to know. Magic, in all its forms, is still magic."

    GAME RULE INFORMATION
    Pantheurges have the following game statistics
    Abilities: Intelligence determines how powerful a 'spell' a pantheurge can cast, how many they can cast, and how hard those 'spells' are to resist. A high dexterity score is helpful, who typically wears little to no armor. A good Constitution score gives a pantheurge extra hit points, a resource they have otherwise little of.
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: d4

    Class Skills
    The pantheurge's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Psionics) (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Psicraft (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

    Table 1-1: The Pantheurge

    Table 1-2: Pantheurge Spell/Power Points


    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the wizard.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pantheurges are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type can interfere with a pantheurge's movements, which can cause their spells with somatic components to fail.

    "Spells": A pantheurge can cast a verity of spells, which may be drawn from any arcane, divine, psionic, infusion, or mystery list. A pantheurge must choose and prepare their 'spells' ahead of time.
    To learn, prepare, or cast a 'spell', the pantheurge must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Int 10 for 0-level spells, Int 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for saving throw against a pantheurge's 'spell' is 10 + the spell level + the pantheurge's intelligence modifier.
    Like other spell casters, a pantheurge can only cast a certain number of spells and powers each day, based upon an allotment of spell/power points. Their base daily spell allotment is given on Table 1-2. In addition, they receive bonus points if they have a high intelligence score. Spells, infusions, and mysteries cost an amount of points each, appropriate for their level. a 1st level spell, infusion, or mystery would cost as much as a 1st level power.
    Unlike a bard or sorcerer, a pantheurge may know any number of spells. They prepare their spells ahead of time by getting good night's sleep and spending 1 hour studying their book of pantheurgy. At this time they select a number of spells to prepare, equivalent to the number of unique spells/day listed in the table above, plus their intelligence modifier (A 5th level pantheurge with an intelligence score of 16 could prepare 6 spells in a day). This number,however, does not count against the number of 0-level spells and fundamentals they may prepare and use.
    Prepared 0-level spells and mysteries, rather than taking spell/power points, may be used a number of times per day equal to the pantheurage's intelligence modifier each.
    Scribe Scroll: at 1st level, a pantheurge gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. This feat enables them to create magic scrolls.
    Book of Pantheurgy: A pantheurge must study their book of pantheurgy to prepare their spells. They cannot prepare any spell not recorded in their book of pantheurgy, except for read magic,which all pantheurges can prepare from memory.
    A pantheurge begins play with a pantheurge containing their choice of 6 0-level spells (arcane or divine), powers, and fundamentals. They also begin with 3 1st level spells (arcane or divine), powers, infusions and/or mysteries. For each of intelligence bonus the pantheurge has, the book of pantheurgy begins with one additional 1st level spell, power, infusion or mystery. These may all be drawn from any list. They are all cast, manifested, or used as if from their original class. For instance, arcane spells and mysteries are affected by arcane spell failure, but divine spells and powers are not. At each level a pantheurge gains, they gain two new 'spells' of any spell level or levels they may cast for their book of pantheurgy. Unlike most spell casters however, they have a limitation. With exception to 0 and 1st level spells, they may only learn and cast spells, powers, and infusions if they know at least 1 spell of a lower level with the same school and cast in the same way as it. For instance, if they know Cause fear as an arcane spell, then they may learn 2nd-level arcane necromancy spells and cast them, but that doesn't grant access to 2nd-level divine necromancy spells. With mysteries, they must follow paths and in order to learn initiate mysteries they must have completed at least one path in apprentice mysteries. In order to learn master mysteries, they must have completed at least one path in initiate mysteries. A pantheurge may have the same spell recorded twice, and prepared separately, if they are different versions of the same spell. A pantheurge, for instance, could have detect magic as an arcane spell and as a divine spell separately. When preparing spells they must choose the version at that time. At any time, a pantheurge can also add spells, powers, infusions or mysteries they find in scrolls or other books to their own.
    Shifting Magic: Upon reaching 5th level, and again at 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a pantheurge selects one of the options below. Each may be taken multiple times unless explicitly stated.

    Bonus Feat: Upon selecting this feature, a pantheurge gains a single bonus feat, that they meet the prerequisites for, from the following list: A Metamagic feat, a Metapsionic feat, a Metashadow feat, an item creation feat, Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Minor Utterance of the Evolving Mind, Open Greater Chakra, Open Least Chakra, Open Lesser Chakra, Practiced Binder, Shape Soulmeld, Truename Training, Utterance of the Evolving Mind, Utterance of the Crafted Tool, or Utterance of the Perfected Map.

    Magic-Form Substitution: Upon selecting this feature, once per day a pantheurge may treat a single arcane spell, divine spell, psionic power, infusion, or mystery as a different type of magic. It functions as its new type for a single cast and may be affected by the appropriate meta feat (Metamagic, metashadow, metapsionic). With each additional selection of this feature, increase the number of uses per day by 1.

    Meeting Prerequisites
    Do to how a pantheurge functions,levels in pantheurge can qualify a character for prestige classes and feats with the following requirements.

    • Caster level requirements, if no type is specified.
    • Ability to cast spells of X level, if no type is specified.
    • Ability to use-powers of X level, if they know and can use powers of the appropriate level.
    • Ability to cast arcane or divine spells of X level, if they know and can use spells of the appropriate type and level.
    • Ability to cast mysteries of X level, if they know and can use mysteries of the appropriate level.
    • Specific spells, mysteries, powers or infusions if they know and can use them of the appropriate type.


    However, a pantheurge may not be progressed by, nor qualify for, any prestige class that advances two classes at once. Classes like mystic theurge are strictly off limits.



    __________________________________________________ _____________

    Now that I have the class down, I need thoughts and help on balancing. I could have made this a prestige class, but I thought as a core class it would be more balanced. It being forced to share 1 resource, knowledge of lower level spells to access higher level ones, and so on. The general idea is a Wizard/Erudite/Archivist type class that can draw from almost any type of magic. I would include invocations, soulmelds, binding, ect. But, they are different enough to make adding them difficult. Besides, there are always feats and such if someone really wanted to add them.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2013-06-06 at 10:23 PM.
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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic.

    My question is: Why would you even need a tier 0 class? What is the point? It's only a step away from granting access to all martial disciplines. In fact, you could take this class and go Jade Pheonix Mage.

    Why play absolutely anything else or even adventure with any other person? You can already do everything.

    I'm sorry, but this just isn't needed. Casters need to be toned down in 3.5 not given a power boost to launch them further out of orbit. :/

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by WhatsWithCanada View Post
    My question is: Why would you even need a tier 0 class? What is the point? It's only a step away from granting access to all martial disciplines. In fact, you could take this class and go Jade Pheonix Mage.

    Why play absolutely anything else or even adventure with any other person? You can already do everything.

    I'm sorry, but this just isn't needed. Casters need to be toned down in 3.5 not given a power boost to launch them further out of orbit. :/

    I honestly do not see how this is tier 0.

    1: You cannot use this to enter Jade Pheonix Mage, or any dual progression class for that matter.

    2: While you have a wider range of abilities, you face limitations on how many you can draw from at once and the same limits on each spell. In addition, unlike wizards and archivists, you cannot jump around in your learning.

    3: For the most part, you'll have to find your spells and add them to your book. It isn't free and your book would have the same size limitations as a wizard.

    Either you are missing something or I am. So please, elaborate on how this is Tier 0.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2013-06-05 at 10:27 PM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic.

    You have grabbed the wizard class, given it all possible 'spell lists', exhanged familiar and bonus feats for the ability to cast spells as spells of different types, and you don't see how this is teir '0'?

    There is only one world I know of that supports this fluff wise and it's not dnd. I can't see any sane DM approving this.
    Except Emperor Tippy, if just because 'Why Not, everyone else basically is', but i kinda question his sanity.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic.

    You're comparing this to a wizard, when it's closer to an StP Erudite in mechanics--exept with divine, shadow, and infusion access instead of class features. StP Erudite is Tier 0, so this seems like it is as well.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    You have grabbed the wizard class, given it all possible 'spell lists', exhanged familiar and bonus feats for the ability to cast spells as spells of different types, and you don't see how this is teir '0'?

    There is only one world I know of that supports this fluff wise and it's not dnd. I can't see any sane DM approving this.
    Except Emperor Tippy, if just because 'Why Not, everyone else basically is', but i kinda question his sanity.
    Part of my reason in posting is to ask to see how one could balance this. I want the versatility, but things keeping it from being game breaking. What can I do to bring it down in tier. I have limiting factors to it already, should I add more or enhance the ones there.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Remove the ability for it to learn spells as a wizard, but then it's basically a psion version of [x] spell type, which makes it pointless.
    I would severely hinder it's ability to learn spells, make it a lot more expensive/time consuming than *scribble into spellbook, but only if I have lower level spells which I will have been able to buy cheap given my level, or taken from followers due to leadership*. Also note that only arcane spells can normally be learned in the fashion described [to my knowledge], so how are they copying psionic powers/other into their spellbook?

    Also, perhaps a random screw up chance = to (spell level*modifier)-(pantheurge level*modifier) to represent them accidentally using the wrong type of incantation/meditation/other.

    Even then, at worst your going to create a limited teir one, due to the huge adaptability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Hunter's Recruitment
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
    Saying no to a Sun's Hunter is as close as it gets to an invitation to have your place destroyed by them)\
    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    In other words, be nice to the murderhobos so they don't murder you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusJones View Post
    The professional, well-funded, well-backed, card-carrying, licensed murderhobos, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Congrats, you made me laugh hard enough to draw my family's attention.


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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    Remove the ability for it to learn spells as a wizard, but then it's basically a psion version of [x] spell type, which makes it pointless.
    I would severely hinder it's ability to learn spells, make it a lot more expensive/time consuming than *scribble into spellbook, but only if I have lower level spells which I will have been able to buy cheap given my level, or taken from followers due to leadership*. Also note that only arcane spells can normally be learned in the fashion described [to my knowledge], so how are they copying psionic powers/other into their spellbook?

    Also, perhaps a random screw up chance = to (spell level*modifier)-(pantheurge level*modifier) to represent them accidentally using the wrong type of incantation/meditation/other.

    Even then, at worst your going to create a limited teir one, due to the huge adaptability.
    Hmm.

    Well, I could certainly make it more difficult to obtain and copy spells. It makes sense to do.

    Psionic powers have tattoos in place of scrolls, so in theory you could find and use those for your 'spell book' or rely purely on what you can gain in a given level.

    Perhaps I should limit further "spells" prepared. Limit the day to day versatility.
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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    I agree, it definately needs to have less spell slots/power points than other teir one casters/manifestors. But then again, you end up resulting in the 'master of none' archtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    In other words, be nice to the murderhobos so they don't murder you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusJones View Post
    The professional, well-funded, well-backed, card-carrying, licensed murderhobos, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Congrats, you made me laugh hard enough to draw my family's attention.


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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Vale View Post
    I agree, it definately needs to have less spell slots/power points than other teir one casters/manifestors. But then again, you end up resulting in the 'master of none' archtype.
    I'll crank down the points and put up some sort of limit for learning spells/powers.

    I'd prefer it being a pure magical Jack of All Trades, Master of None archetype to fitting in a God Tier.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    I'd prefer it being a pure magical Jack of All Trades, Master of None archetype to fitting in a God Tier.
    We already have that, though. It's called a bard.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Xuldarinar, why not just do a spell progression of 6 levels? It would remove the need for excessive limitation and the utility alone should make up for the lack in power.

    Even 4th level spells deal more damage than melee and 6th level has the advent of Contingency, Antimagic, and other staples of fantasy. Like this it would still probably be at least tier 3, maybe even low tier 2, and then you could probably even afford to add in some class abilities that way.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2013-06-06 at 12:28 AM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    Xuldarinar, why not just do a spell progression of 6 levels? It would remove the need for excessive limitation and the utility alone should make up for the lack in power.

    Even 4th level spells deal more damage than melee and 6th level has the advent of Contingency, Antimagic, and other staples of fantasy. Like this it would still probably be at least tier 3, maybe even low tier 2, and then you could probably even afford to add in some class abilities that way.
    Thats not a bad Idea actually. Thank you. I'll change the progression.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Mmm. That and it allows it [once passing into epic] expand into the ground shaking god like 'mages' of literature/fantasy that always seem to have the right tool for the job, while not becoming game breaking up until the levels that gods wait around in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vedhin View Post
    In other words, be nice to the murderhobos so they don't murder you?
    Quote Originally Posted by JanusJones View Post
    The professional, well-funded, well-backed, card-carrying, licensed murderhobos, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Congrats, you made me laugh hard enough to draw my family's attention.


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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Now that things have been toned down a bit. Versatile, but 7th-9th level spells forever out of reach. Now, I feel it needs -something-. Im not sure what though. What do you think?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5 Class] Pantheurge, A wizard of all things magic. [PEACH]

    Why not let them shape their spells? Like 5ft holes, metamagic for free, exclude allies, etc. Or even take some ideas from the Incantatrix.

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