Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Binding Pact
    Some entities are not content to watch those they have bestowed power on from afar- and not all pacts with such beings are in the distant past, or were forged by ancestors. A few warlocks are far more strongly bound to the creatures their powers stem from, or servants of those beings. While they more overtly show the signs of their dark dealings, they can also directly manifest the powers of their allies.
    Class: Warlock.
    Level: 4th.
    Replaces: You do not gain Deceive Item, nor do you gain Imbue Item.
    Benefit: You gain a limited ability to forge pacts with outside forces. At 4th level, you may select a single first level vestige, and gain an effective binder level equal to your warlock level. You do not summon or make a binding check for this vestige; you are bound to it constantly, and express its sign and are under its influence. As a full-round action, you may suppress its sign and influence indefinitely, but you also lose access to the powers of the bound vestige until you take another full-round action to express its sign and influence again.
    At 12th level, you may choose to either replace your previous vestige with any vestige of up to second level, or you may choose a second first level vestige. If you choose a second first level vestige you may only express the signs, influence, and powers of one vestige at a time, though whenever you use an action to suppress one, you may choose to express the other.
    Any choices that would be made upon binding a vestige (such as skills chosen when binding Naberius) may be changed as a full-round action once every 24 hours.


    Eldritch Focus
    The warlock's natural attunement to magic does not always manifest in increased awareness of it. Instead, some find that directing magical energies is easier for them and that with focus, their eldritch blasts become more potent.
    Class: Warlock.
    Level: 2nd.
    Replaces: You do not gain Detect Magic.
    Benefit: At 2nd level, you add your Charisma modifier to your Eldritch Blast damage. You may also spend a full round action to activate your Eldritch Blast in order to increase this bonus to one and a half times your Charisma modifier. Lastly, you add the Magic Insight invocation to the list of invocations you may select.


    Eldritch Scholar
    The studious and intelligent sometimes pry too far, unearthing forbidden knowledge. Others turn to dangerous pacts and alliances to achieve the ends they seek, whether out of desperation or arrogance. These warlocks do not have the martial training of their peers, but have greater knowledge and investigative skill to rely upon in their adventures.
    Class: Warlock.
    Level: 1st.
    Replaces: The Eldritch Scholar uses a d4 for his Hit Die (and has hit points at 1st level equal to 4 + Con modifier) and has poor base attack bonus. In addition, they are not proficient with light armor, and suffer arcane spell failure in all armor.
    Benefit: The Eldritch Scholar adds Decipher Script, Gather Information, all Knowledge skills, Search, and Speak Language to his class list. The Eldritch Scholar also gains skill points per level equal to 6 + Int modifier (and has this number x4 at 1st level). Lastly, the Eldritch Scholar gains the Lore (Ex) ability, which is identical to the bard's bardic knowledge class feature, using the Eldritch Scholar's class level in place of the bard level.


    Invoker Savant
    Not all supernatural entities possess increased resilience to harm- some are instead blessed with stronger and more varied magic. A warlock who is tied to such beings may find that the powers they gain reflect this, expressing a greater breadth of invocations at the expense of any supernatural protection.
    Class: Warlock.
    Level: 3rd.
    Replaces: You do not gain Damage Reduction, nor do you gain Fiendish Resilience.
    Benefit: At levels 3, 9, 14, and 19, you learn one additional invocation from the Warlock list of any grade that you have access to. You may also choose to select invocations from outside the Warlock list, but these invocations must be one grade lower than the highest grade you have access to.
    For example, a level 9 Warlock with this alternate class feature could select a least or lesser invocation from the Warlock list, or a least invocation from any invocation list, while a level 3 warlock could only select a least invocation from the Warlock list.


    Notes and Change Log
    Spoiler
    Show
    Invoker Savant
    Notes: The unusual progression here is meant to place the extra invocations on levels where the warlock does not already gain an invocation rather than replacing missing features with the new one. It does leave a few levels empty, but I think this was the better choice.
    This is basically meant to be the Educated Wilder variant for Warlock- it's possible that this is a strict upgrade, but Warlock really suffers from its low invocation numbers, so it is probably called for.

    Eldritch Scholar
    Notes: Trying to balance to little and too much here. 6 skill points and extra skills felt like a bit too little... lore may be a bit too much. It's tempting to add in poor attack bonus, but I think that might be too harmful, given the prominence of Eldritch Blast. Thoughts?
    Changes 1.1
    -Now also reduces attack bonus to poor.

    Binding Pact
    Notes: I think I've expressed what the effects are, but I'm sure there's better wording for it.
    Changes 1.1
    -Includes wording to allow for changing of variable vestige abilities once every 24 hours.
    Changes 1.2
    -On review of the vestiges and how binder level applied to them, I decided to increase effective binder level to full warlock level.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2016-01-20 at 10:26 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Invoker Savant does look like the "Educated" ACF. No one really cares about the fiendish resilience, and the DR is piddling--extra invocations are great, though there might be a case of diminishing returns because you're mostly getting more Least Invocations, and the really nice ones tend to be Lesser Invocations.

    Eldritch Scholar...I'd take it, because I like skillmonkeys. D4s and lack of armor doesn't seems fair in exchange for actually being able to put skill points into stuff. Lore might be putting it over the edge; I'd take the ACF even without it.

    Binding Pact: You do realize that only thing anyone would (ab)using this for is HFW shenanigans without needing a Binder dip, right? Losing Decieve Item is steep, but considering Naberius, it probably should be steep.
    Last edited by Kazyan; 2013-06-09 at 12:36 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Eldritch Scholar...I'd take it, because I like skillmonkeys. D4s and lack of armor doesn't seems fair in exchange for actually being able to put skill points into stuff. Lore might be putting it over the edge; I'd take the ACF even without it.
    Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. I definitely do like adding in lore though, it makes it feel more substantial. What are you thoughts on reducing BAB to poor in addition to the other sacrifices? That would be my first inclination.

    Binding Pact: You do realize that only thing anyone would (ab)using this for is HFW shenanigans without needing a Binder dip, right? Losing Decieve Item is steep, but considering Naberius, it probably should be steep.
    It definitely does promote Naberius shenanigans if that is one's desire, but it's not particularly out of reach as it is; a single binder level is not a very costly investment. This does streamline the process a bit, but as you said, the cost is notable. I don't think it is an unreasonable feature even with hellfire warlock in consideration.

    I would disagree that it would be the only reason someone would use it, but that may be my personal taste- focusing on magical items doesn't always feel right for the character, and you can get some interesting and useful abilities from vestiges.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-06-09 at 01:03 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    With poor BAB, you have to ask yourself how often your casters are flubbing their ranged touch attacks. I don't know how that goes at higher levels, but considering the forums collective wisdom, it's probably not too damaging to do that to a warlock. I mean, you'll be tending towards a more skill-oriented role anyway if you take the ACF.

    Maybe I was exaggerating with the "only for Naberius" thing; you've got a point. but it would be the majority of uses. Just making sure you're aware.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kane0's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Waterdeep
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    They all look good to me, though i'd have to try them out before I can say more.

    Oh, one idea though. How about an ACF that improves EB? Iterative attacks when not using an essence or shape and Cha to damage at the cost of 2 skills/level or item abilities or something?
    Last edited by Kane0; 2013-06-10 at 07:02 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    As a note, I went ahead and made the BAB change, I think it'll even things out a bit more without being too big a deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Oh, one idea though. How about an ACF that improves EB? Iterative attacks when not using an essence or shape and Cha to damage at the cost of 2 skills/level or item abilities or something?
    Hm, well Warlock already only gets 2 skill points per level, normally, but I definitely do like the idea of a charisma bonus to damage (I've used that in some essences of mine, actually). I will think on this idea!
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-06-10 at 07:11 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Vael has best warlock brew. Bonus invocations on par with the Wilder article stealth fix, a sage variant with the skills and thus knowledge to justify taking the perfect effects, and something to swap expensive versatility for reliable simplicity. Though sadly after checking on the available vestiges, it really does seem like Naberius is the best choice, if for no other reason than it's sign and influence are least damaging. Ronove or Amon could be useful but could also get you killed in combat, while Dahlver Nar and Savnok has some strong abilities but don't come up until 12th (Nar rather takes the cake there). Sure you can ignore them, but ignoring your patron is usually supposed to be a very bad thing, while binders are the ones with the power in that relationship so they can mostly get away with it. It also bugs me a bit that you're forced into the sign and influence when usually dedicating yourself to a vestige (with Knight of the Sacred Seal) means you never make a poor pact with them again. It's more interesting this way but also stresses just how much weaker it is than even a 1 level Binder/Improved Bind Vestige dip (though that's actually perfect since Deceive/Imbue Item don't actually do anything by themselves either). Being able to turn it on and off fixes that of course, but makes it a pain when you just want passive abilities and your invocations aren't so needy.

    So yeah, well done. You should clarify when/how often you make the choices that are usually made when binding the vestige: the already favored Naberious gets to re-choose it's untrained skill bonuses every time to bind it, for example.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Vael has best warlock brew.
    Aw, thanks.

    Though sadly after checking on the available vestiges, it really does seem like Naberius is the best choice, if for no other reason than it's sign and influence are least damaging.
    Naberius is definitely a great option even for people who don't want to go Hellfire Warlock. Of course, I'd make the argument that this is more just reflecting the fact that Naberius is pretty much the best of the 1st level vestiges... every one of his abilities is very useful, in contrast to some of the others. (Also he's just really cool).

    That being said, I could see use of Amon on Clawlocks, as he adds an unusual natural weapon, while Aym could possibly be used on a Clawlock or a Glaivelock. Their abilities might not be as potent as those of Naberius, but they do have some synergy with such builds.
    Ronove is probably a better contender for the Clawlock with the increased unarmed strike damage- the rest of the stuff is just a nice bonus.

    Leraje is actually a really nice vestige as well though. The Hide bonus is useful for snipers (such as those utilizing Eldritch Spear), while Precise Shot is good for any ranged warlock. In addition, given that Eldritch Blast is a weapon-like effect, Ricochet should function with it. All around, not a bad choice at all, particularly for the more combative warlock.

    Once you get into second level vestiges things do get even more interesting... from them, I think Malphas would be a very useful choice.

    It also bugs me a bit that you're forced into the sign and influence when usually dedicating yourself to a vestige (with Knight of the Sacred Seal) means you never make a poor pact with them again.
    Mostly, this is a flavor thing. The idea is that if you want to benefit from their power, you have to follow their rules; to gain you must also give. It attempts to play up the idea of a pact, pledging something to them in return for something you desire.

    Largely, I do not think the influence of a vestige is something to be concerned over. The only vestige in the first level group with a truly notable and harmful effect is Amon- a few of the others can affect you a little, but generally you can avoid them with a bit of forethought and timely suppression of your pact.

    So yeah, well done. You should clarify when/how often you make the choices that are usually made when binding the vestige: the already favored Naberious gets to re-choose it's untrained skill bonuses every time to bind it, for example.
    Ah, good catch! That should probably be a daily thing to avoid shenanigans.
    Edit: Change made!
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-06-13 at 08:25 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Was this only a week ago? Time lies. Anyway, at risk of tainting the pool, do you have any ideas on a feature for trading out eldritch blast? The scholar does a good job of reducing combat focus, but I'd still be interested to a see a warlock ACF that could replace blast without messing things up too bad. Mostly because there are a number of homebrew invokers that do away with the blast and give extra invocations, only to have a bunch of invocations for direct damage so you can blast while you don't blast. Seems kind of silly, but I wonder if it could be done straight rather than making a whole homebrew class just to remove the blast. I could think of a couple ideas but I'd like to see others first.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Oh, one idea though. How about an ACF that improves EB? Iterative attacks when not using an essence or shape and Cha to damage at the cost of 2 skills/level or item abilities or something?
    To get back to this, it's always been my opinion that iterative attacks (and similar mechanics) should be the territory of blast shapes. The problem is really more that the current blast shapes are not quite strong enough.

    However, an early damage boost to Eldritch Blast would certainly be welcome, not to mention a bit of extra damage. So, I was thinking this:

    Eldritch Focus
    The warlock's natural attunement to magic does not always manifest in increased awareness of it. Instead, some find that directing magical energies is easier for them and that with focus, their eldritch blasts become more potent.
    Class: Warlock.
    Level: 2nd.
    Replaces: You do not gain Detect Magic.
    Benefit: At 2nd level, you add your Charisma modifier to your Eldritch Blast damage. You may also spend a full round action to activate your Eldritch Blast in order to increase this bonus to one and a half times your Charisma modifier. Lastly, you add the Magic Insight invocation to the list of invocations you may select.


    That last clause is mostly so that if someone reaaaally wants to be able to detect things, they can still spend an invocation on it.

    I feel like Detect Magic might provide more utility in the long term, but overall I think I'm satisfied with how it turned out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Anyway, at risk of tainting the pool, do you have any ideas on a feature for trading out eldritch blast?
    This one is a bit hard, I feel. For one, I don't want to do another alternate feature that just grants invocations- for another, Eldritch Blast is sort of a core ability. As it is also the main offensive power of the warlock and grants access to another set of abilities (but doesn't outright give you those abilities), it's difficult to strike a decent balance.

    Ideally, you'd replace it with a singular, comparable ability, but I'm not really sold on any particular mechanics I've thought of for it so far.



    I added Focus to the first post, and also put the features in alphabetical order.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2013-06-20 at 11:51 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oregon
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    My first thoughts were class feature swaps. An animal companion or fiendish servant is strong enough to rely on and useable every round, and both sneak attack and fighter bonus feats seem to get subbed in place of almost any feature. Then I thought about an object or possibly person control ability. Then I wrote about six different versions of Animate Object invocations.

    For the cha to damage, is that intended to be used alongside your +cha damage least essences? I won't suggest that double cha to damage will break the game, just making sure it was considered. Actually I should be grateful for it since I always want ways to not suck without going hellfire, ignoring of course that they can use it too. And as usual, nice touch adding the "two hand" option, it works perfectly.
    Attention Imgur Users! Imgur apparently doesn't like hosting images anymore and only works in certain places or for people who already have the image cached: No one can see your avatars or images!
    Also Photobucket users? Don't know if it's a bandwidth or region lock or something, but I'm seeing some avatars blurred out with a watermark that looks like the photobucket icon.
    And Tinypic went down a while back, seeing plenty of old avatars showing their downed image.
    Quote Originally Posted by Violet Octopus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AmberVael's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Fragments [3.5, Warlock Alternate Class Features]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    For the cha to damage, is that intended to be used alongside your +cha damage least essences?
    Yeah, it should be fine. At low levels (where the boost will be most noticeable) It would be about comparable to what you could do with a basic greatsword hit- admittedly on a ranged touch attack, but then, you'd have sacrificed pretty much every other capability to accomplish that.

    You can boost your charisma later on to get more out of it, of course- but by then, you'll have even better options for damage than one of my essences. The favored Vitriolic Blast, for example, is going to outpace all but the highest charisma modifiers.

    And as usual, nice touch adding the "two hand" option, it works perfectly.
    Thanks! I felt just a flat bonus would be a bit boring and might be a little low, but didn't want to increase it too much.


    Incidentally, I've been thinking about a non-eldritch blast warlock. I'm not sure this will be quite what you were looking for, and I'm still a little unsure about balance, but I just wanted to get it out here:

    EDIT FROM THE FAR, FAR FUTURE OF ONE YEAR LATER:
    I'm going to leave this intact just for the record, but note that the following ACF is not something I consider complete or balanced (which is why it has not been moved to the first post).

    Mystic Curse
    Class: Warlock.
    Level: 1st.
    Replaces: You do not gain Eldritch Blast.
    Benefit: You gain the ability to curse and debilitate your enemies. As a standard action you can make a ranged touch attack against one target within 60ft. On a successful hit, you deal 1 subdual damage to the target. This is a first level spell-like ability that allows no saving throw.
    You may apply eldritch essences and blast shapes to your mystic curse as if it were an eldritch blast. However, you may apply a least eldritch essence to your mystic curse in addition to any other essences and blast shapes you apply. This also allows you to apply the same effect twice, though this is not beneficial in the case of all eldritch essences. The effects of each essence are resolved separately. If you imbue your mystic curse with two different types of damage, half of the damage (rounded down) is dealt by each source. You must choose which essences you will use in conjunction with your mystic curse before you start your action.
    At 9th level, your additional essence may be either a least essence or a lesser essence. At 17th level, it may be a least, lesser, or greater essence.
    At levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 17, and 20, you learn a bonus eldritch essence or blast shape invocation of any grade available to you. If you choose to replace these invocations when you level up, you may only replace them with essences and blast shapes, not other invocations.


    A few thoughts on its balance: It grants a ton of bonus invocations, but essences and blast shapes do tend to be a lot weaker. The ability also needs extra essences in order to equal eldritch blast in power, since it doesn't actually have any ability of its own. That said, it may still be a little much. I might lower the number of extra invocations it gets.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2014-09-12 at 09:54 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •