[PF] The Invincible Iron Man mk II [Base Class, revised]

[genericwit]

@genericwit: True, and I see where you feel I was debating that. Tbh I missed that "one Craft or Profession" limit. So if you wanted to craft another "set" of items you would need to take the feat again. Which, IMO, is perfectly fine. The class is built around armor and making it better. If the player wants to deviate into something unique, so be it, take some pain for it.

Actually, since spellcraft is a class skill, it'd be easier to just sub spellcraft for non-armor non-passive items... You can add 5 to the DC for every prereq you don't meet, such as caster level, spells known, etc... So for something that only has one spell requirement, you could add 10 to the DC for not knowing the spell and not having caster levels and make it with spellcraft... presumably. Another fix might be to allow you to use your initiator level instead of your caster level when making wondrous items with spellcraft... It does kind of fit the Iron Man motif of having tons of fun gadgets.

[ErrantX]

Legitimately no. I never had a problem with it. Well, I would remove the "initiator level" business and leave it "ranks in chosen craft skill". Because all you are really doing is exchanging Craft (blank) ranks (which is never more than your character level) for Caster level. Well, and replacing Spellcraft checks with Craft (blank) checks. Which... who cares really? Such a minor concern.

@genericwit: True, and I see where you feel I was debating that. Tbh I missed that "one Craft or Profession" limit. So if you wanted to craft another "set" of items you would need to take the feat again. Which, IMO, is perfectly fine. The class is built around armor and making it better. If the player wants to deviate into something unique, so be it, take some pain for it.

Hrm, I am seeing power flux about to happen here; maybe limited access is best. Changing out Master Craftsman as a feat and replace it with something like a Warlock's Imbue Item thing, but only for making wondrous items and weapons for the armor. I left initiator in there for opportunities for my Libram project and because the Generator class uses it. The class also has abilities that vary on level, so it just seems right to have a name for it. Initiator works.

Actually, since spellcraft is a class skill, it'd be easier to just sub spellcraft for non-armor non-passive items... You can add 5 to the DC for every prereq you don't meet, such as caster level, spells known, etc... So for something that only has one spell requirement, you could add 10 to the DC for not knowing the spell and not having caster levels and make it with spellcraft... presumably. Another fix might be to allow you to use your initiator level instead of your caster level when making wondrous items with spellcraft... It does kind of fit the Iron Man motif of having tons of fun gadgets.

Because of my above idea, I'm thinking of dumping Spellcraft too.

Thoughts?

-X

[Deviston]

YES YES a thousand times yes! Er... rather, Yes i firmly agree with your idea. I wanted to suggest that a long time ago, but i figured Master Craftsman works thematically, but you can just make Imbue Item called "Tinkerer's Gifts" or whatnot to make it fit the theme.

And yes dropping Spellcraft makes so much sense. Also, with making a whole new custom class feature (imbue item) you can still leave the initiator business without concern.

[Durazno]

Would there be a place for a feat that another character in the Iron Man's party could take to be able to use the one suit of armor that the Iron Man lent them without penalty?

[Deviston]

I couldn't see completely without penalty, but Errant DOES have the Lend Armor feat where the borrower takes a -2 to all d20 rolls.

[zhdarkstar]

Hrm, I am seeing power flux about to happen here; maybe limited access is best. Changing out Master Craftsman as a feat and replace it with something like a Warlock's Imbue Item thing, but only for making wondrous items and weapons for the armor. I left initiator in there for opportunities for my Libram project and because the Generator class uses it. The class also has abilities that vary on level, so it just seems right to have a name for it. Initiator works.



Because of my above idea, I'm thinking of dumping Spellcraft too.

Thoughts?

-X

I can dig dropping Spellcraft as I was running into issues with skill point distribution for my Mecha Senshi builds. This frees up some extra points as the Mecha Senshi is actually a Charisma-based Iron Man build instead of Intelligence.

EDIT: Upon further thought, I was thinking that rather than making the wondrous items have to be part of the armor itself, the Iron Man makes specific versions of the items that can interface and augment the armor's abilities while also being wearable while out of suit. That way you don't have to live in the armor to get the most out of your wondrous items or have multiple copies.

[Deviston]

What if... the Iron Man could make a thin body suit (think psychoactive skin) that emerges into specific shapes and what not when a suit is worn (like metallic wings if the body suit grants flying just as an example).
Same principle though, usable outside of a suit and can function with any suit worn.

Each magical enchantment would of course occupy a body slot but he could have several such spandexy body suits. This way others could use the "Wonderous Items" he crafts as well. Not just a selfish class. That last part isn't really important, I just love the body suit concept. I'm thinking like the thing gundam fighters wear from the show G Gundam.

ooooh.... I can see it now, "Take my pain! My anger! And ALL my sorrow! REPULSOR INFUSED KNUCKLE BOMB FINGAAAAAARS!!!"

[ErrantX]

YES YES a thousand times yes! Er... rather, Yes i firmly agree with your idea. I wanted to suggest that a long time ago, but i figured Master Craftsman works thematically, but you can just make Imbue Item called "Tinkerer's Gifts" or whatnot to make it fit the theme.

And yes dropping Spellcraft makes so much sense. Also, with making a whole new custom class feature (imbue item) you can still leave the initiator business without concern.

I made a new ability in place. Thoughts?

Upon further thought, I was thinking that rather than making the wondrous items have to be part of the armor itself, the Iron Man makes specific versions of the items that can interface and augment the armor's abilities while also being wearable while out of suit. That way you don't have to live in the armor to get the most out of your wondrous items or have multiple copies.

Therein lies the rub, huh? Decisions, decisions...

-X

[Deviston]

With Imbue Item being a UMD check not a Caster Level check, I would recomend dropping the DC to 10+ spell level and 15 + spell level for divine. Or perhaps just making it a 15+/20+ Craft check.

However, I have a feeling you want it initiator check for some other class interactions?

But it's much better than before. Even though the fact that the feat exists at all is mindblowingly amazing... like.. wdf...

I would also remove the "collision" magical enchantment from the fist and just say the damage goes up to 1d12 or something similar. Since you are giving the ability to enchant now and all, having collision essentially limits the player to a +2 enhancement and only at far later levels. Since collision is already there and whatnot. But a bump to the dice (from 1d8 original to 1d12) would give a nice chance at a bonus 4 damage. Oh, or maybe 2d6. Heck I don't know.

[zhdarkstar]

I would also remove the "collision" magical enchantment from the fist and just say the damage goes up to 1d12 or something similar. Since you are giving the ability to enchant now and all, having collision essentially limits the player to a +2 enhancement and only at far later levels. Since collision is already there and whatnot. But a bump to the dice (from 1d8 original to 1d12) would give a nice chance at a bonus 4 damage. Oh, or maybe 2d6. Heck I don't know.

The problem I see here is that you're getting 3 damage die steps for one least modification (1d6->1d8->1d10->2d6) which doesn't seem so bad on the surface, but when applied to my Mecha Senshi PrC sample builds, the unarmed strike damage jumps from 4d6->8d6 on a single Medium suit with Knuckle Bombs, Powerful Build, and Crushing Blows. This gets even uglier when you factor in Mecha Zord Armor, going up another 2d6 for every effective size category above Large, capping at 14d6 at Colossal. The problem isn't so much the damage dealt but the amount of time spent rolling.

Impact would be an alternative option instead. It's still a +2 ability but it gives a single damage die step increase instead of the flat +5 damage.

[Deviston]

I tend not to look at every homebrew on the boards when suggesting balance changes. I'm sure that even some core classes can be unbalanced and "crazy" when combined with Hombrew X.

My concern is, even with the +2 Impact, he still can't add another enhancement until level 9. Even then it's only a +1. He would have to wait until 15+ to be able to add a full +3 enhancement unless there was a mechanic for "unenchanting" his fists.

Maybe a good fix would be changing the crit range or multiplier. Not as impacting each attack as a flat +5 deeps, but still significant when it occurs.

Aka

•Knuckle Bombs – (Prerequisites: Smashing Blows) An upgraded version the smashing blows modification (including all of its bonuses), includes more destructive components than previously and increases the unarmed strike damage of the Iron Man from 1d6 to 1d8 plus Strength modifier and increases critical threat range and multiplier to 19-20 X3. Additionally, when the character spends a point of battery power upon a successful hit, the character ignites a small repulsor grenade mounted on the character's knuckles or shins that inflicts the character's repulsor damage to the target.

[milonti]

So I made an account just because I was looking at using this class for a campaign. My DM pointed it out as allowed homebrew. It looks FANTASTIC!

I have two questions though.
Edit: I mean 3

1) How is the Modular Armor activated? Is it a dedicated suit of armor that you can only wear for a certain amount of time per day? Or something I can attach and detach? Or is it like its own special component that I slap onto a suit of armor and it unfolds into awesomeness?

2) How does the suit and abilities interact with an Anti-Magic Field?

3) Is it possible for the Iron Man to sleep in his construct armor after giving it orders such as "patrol this area and wake me if you spot anything" ? I was toying with the idea of my character sleeping in his armor while it walks around of its own accord

[ErrantX]

I've made changes to Master Armorer to reflect Knowledge (engineering) as its skill, and I've added a Trap Sensor least modification. Some other tweaks here and there. Other stuff below.

Also considering changing some of the class archetypes into an archetype suit feat (i.e. at 12th level you could take Repulsor Lord Armor as a feat, and get an extra suit with the listed modifications and special advantages/disadvantages). Thoughts?

I tend not to look at every homebrew on the boards when suggesting balance changes. I'm sure that even some core classes can be unbalanced and "crazy" when combined with Hombrew X.

Maybe a good fix would be changing the crit range or multiplier. Not as impacting each attack as a flat +5 deeps, but still significant when it occurs.

Agreed, and I implemented that change, makes sense. Honestly considering just dropping smashing fists at this point and just having knuckle bombs.

So I made an account just because I was looking at using this class for a campaign. My DM pointed it out as allowed homebrew. It looks FANTASTIC!

I have two questions though.
Edit: I mean 3

Thank you!

1) How is the Modular Armor activated? Is it a dedicated suit of armor that you can only wear for a certain amount of time per day? Or something I can attach and detach? Or is it like its own special component that I slap onto a suit of armor and it unfolds into awesomeness?

I... didn't write that in. Now I did.

2) How does the suit and abilities interact with an Anti-Magic Field?

I also... did not write this in. Added it. See construct armor, until then it's just a suit of magic armor and mods are supernatural, so none of it works until Construct Armor, then there is a special caveat there.

3) Is it possible for the Iron Man to sleep in his construct armor after giving it orders such as "patrol this area and wake me if you spot anything" ? I was toying with the idea of my character sleeping in his armor while it walks around of its own accord

I'm gonna say no, because the construct isn't intelligent. Also, you try sleeping when your pajamas are marching you around all night, clanking up a storm.

Thanks for the interest!

-X

[Deviston]

You know, i didn't want to say anything but removing the modification tax is something I agree with. Knuckle Bombs only makes much more sense IMO.

[ErrantX]

You know, i didn't want to say anything but removing the modification tax is something I agree with. Knuckle Bombs only makes much more sense IMO.

Had another idea for Knuckle Bombs as well, lowering the crit multiplier from x3 to x2 and allow for a free activation of a repulsor grenade on a critical hit that successfully lands. How's that sound?

Also, any thoughts on Armor Archetypes as a feat or suggestions for new mods / armor archetypes?

EDIT: Made change to Knuckle Bombs and dropped Smashing Blows.

-X

[zhdarkstar]

I definitely dig the changes made as this frees up a mod for my sample builds. Mecha Senshi will be updated shortly to reflect it as well.

As for Armor Archetypes, how about instead making it an archetype itself where you only end up with 3 suits but each suit uses one of the archetypes for it?

[Deviston]

The problem with that is the archetypes modify class features.

As for lowering crit to normal and adding a free repulsor detonation, I can see that.

And as for new material, no promises on time frame, but I'm sure I can come up with a few for you.

[userpay]

Its probably come up before but have you thought of making an elemental archetype? Requires Elemental Repulsors obviously and at some point gains the ability to at least partially bypass resistance/immunity vs their element.

[ErrantX]

The problem with that is the archetypes modify class features.

As for lowering crit to normal and adding a free repulsor detonation, I can see that.

And as for new material, no promises on time frame, but I'm sure I can come up with a few for you.

True, archetypes mod class features, but really, look at those archetypes again, especially the ones I wrote. If I presented those you as feat setups for special armor, they make more sense. You're only going to need one suit of Repulsor Lord armor, ya know? It's similar to the 3.5 astral construct body feats that were released in Complete Psionic; they mod your whole set up for the astral construct if you use that feat with it. This would be similar.

Its probably come up before but have you thought of making an elemental archetype? Requires Elemental Repulsors obviously and at some point gains the ability to at least partially bypass resistance/immunity vs their element.

To be honest? Nope

With this class I've kind of made it a point to be a sort of quasi-community project, and if you have some ideas to put one together, by all means, please write it up!

-X

[milonti]

I just noticed that Compact Armor mod enables you to put on the armor alone, but the normal rules for the suit do not state you need more than one person to put it on. Is that left over wording from a previous iteration?

[ErrantX]

I just noticed that Compact Armor mod enables you to put on the armor alone, but the normal rules for the suit do not state you need more than one person to put it on. Is that left over wording from a previous iteration?

Quote where it says what you're referencing?

In the armor section it says:

Finally, these suits of armor are far more complicated than a standard suit of armor, so double the time involved to don this armor from the base armor if donned alone, and may not be donned hastily.

and:

Compacted Form – By spending one battery point from the armor's battery pool, the armor is able to contract or expand out to be secured over its wearer as a full round action, and does not require any additional attendants or helpers to get him into it, as it is automated. When in its compact state, it often resembles either a metallic turtle-shell like backpack or a heavy metal briefcase weighing the same as the base suit of armor. (Note: This modification may only be used on a breastplate-based suit of armor and often are built of mithral.)

You don't require attendants to don any armor specifically unless otherwise stated. That being said, most people tend towards full plate, but it was a broad statement to cover all manners of armor. If you're wearing full plate armor, you need help. If you're wearing a breastplate, you don't, but it's easier. The Compacted Form dons it for you as a full round action for 1 battery as a breastplate.

-X

[milonti]

I think I missed the one full-round action thing.

New questions though, more mechanics type things.

How do pre-req modifications and modification swapping at even levels work?

I have 2 greater level mods in mind. First is the Adamantine Cutting Beam. If I'm reading correctly (which I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not) it requires me to use up 5 of my total 16 mods for the class to gain the ability to overcome hardness with repulsor blasts at 1 battery point per second.

Do I need to keep every single pre-req mod as one known for it to work? And do I need each one on the same armor since they aren't upgrades (like the flame thrower) and perform their own specific functions?

The other mod is the Telepresence armor. I can more easily understand the High tax on this one, but the same idea applies. Also, does this mod have to be on the armor I'm in or the armor I'm controlling? Both?

Last I wanted to suggest a few upgrades for some of the components.

Lesser: Gravitron Beam - Pre-req: Tractor Beam. Doesn't require metal objects, possibly more powerful

Lesser: Mass Manipulator - Pre-req: Tractor Beam. Causes a surface to become more massive, increasing localized gravity. low battery point cost (2ish?) to create difficult terrain in an area. Higher to cause slow effect and drop flying enemies.

Lesser: Mining Beam - Causes a large amount of damage to an unattended object. Can be used in place of repulsor for a full-round action sunder attack only. Maybe deals a die category or two above repulsor damage?

(no idea what grade, maybe upgradeable): Hacking Module - Taps into the arcane (or scientific) energy powering a construct. Basically gives you Turn/Rebuke Construct with saves based on amount of battery power put in

Greater(?):Disruption Matrix - Provides a repulsor based dispel effect. If you have knuckle bombs it can be used to create an anti-magic field as a standard action that provokes AoO. The anti-magic field is specifically attuned to not affect the Iron-Man's normal suit operation (though it may affect certain modifications?)

[ErrantX]

I think I missed the one full-round action thing.

New questions though, more mechanics type things.

How do pre-req modifications and modification swapping at even levels work?

I have 2 greater level mods in mind. First is the Adamantine Cutting Beam. If I'm reading correctly (which I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not) it requires me to use up 5 of my total 16 mods for the class to gain the ability to overcome hardness with repulsor blasts at 1 battery point per second.

Do I need to keep every single pre-req mod as one known for it to work? And do I need each one on the same armor since they aren't upgrades (like the flame thrower) and perform their own specific functions?

You need to possess or have possessed before buying the upgraded version. Most of the time, it's worth it to keep the previous ones, sometimes its not. Up to you. Only exception is Power Matrix, you pretty much need Power Matrix later on for good stuff.

The other mod is the Telepresence armor. I can more easily understand the High tax on this one, but the same idea applies. Also, does this mod have to be on the armor I'm in or the armor I'm controlling? Both?

Telepresence needs to be on the armor you're controlling, not on the one you're wearing.

Last I wanted to suggest a few upgrades for some of the components.

Lesser: Gravitron Beam - Pre-req: Tractor Beam. Doesn't require metal objects, possibly more powerful

Potentially, yeah. That could work.

Lesser: Mass Manipulator - Pre-req: Tractor Beam. Causes a surface to become more massive, increasing localized gravity. low battery point cost (2ish?) to create difficult terrain in an area. Higher to cause slow effect and drop flying enemies.

A bit more than I'd wanna do, too magicky.

Lesser: Mining Beam - Causes a large amount of damage to an unattended object. Can be used in place of repulsor for a full-round action sunder attack only. Maybe deals a die category or two above repulsor damage?

May as well just use repulsors then, or unibeam if needed.

(no idea what grade, maybe upgradeable): Hacking Module - Taps into the arcane (or scientific) energy powering a construct. Basically gives you Turn/Rebuke Construct with saves based on amount of battery power put in

Too much, gets too into Extremis' pudding.

Greater(?):Disruption Matrix - Provides a repulsor based dispel effect. If you have knuckle bombs it can be used to create an anti-magic field as a standard action that provokes AoO. The anti-magic field is specifically attuned to not affect the Iron-Man's normal suit operation (though it may affect certain modifications?)

Definitely not, that's pushing too much magic. Perhaps an anti-magic resistance thing, but not antimagic itself. I'm trying to straddle the line between the comics/movies and D&D limits on tech.

-X

[milonti]

Hmm.... I wonder if it'd be possible to make some sort of sniper archtype for Iron Man. Focusing on very long-range, high-damage, single attacks. Or would that be too far from the concept?

[Threadnaught]

Reserved for potential expansions or prestige classes and the like.

-X

Yay, can't wait to see what you come up with. Just reposting some old ideas.

Armour Lock (rename as appropriate): Subject enters a defensive stance in which they're immune to damage for X rounds (not sure which stat to use). Subject may not move, attack or use any offensive or status mods.

Area Shield: Subject while in defensive stance, may create a protective field making all within immune to damage.

Techno Fort: Subject creates miniture fortress in area around themselves (based on their Armour Size) which protects themselves and allies, granting complete concealment, bonuses to stats and possibly the ability to use some of the Iron Man's offensive/status mods themselves to attack enemies outside, while he stays immobile at the centre commanding the fortress to attack and disable enemies within. Alternatively he could move within the limits of the fortress.

Also speaking about Iron Man 2, the Whip Guy. Repulsor Lord needs his Repulsor Whips... As an optional mod, mind.

As I said before, I'm really looking forward to the Prestige Classes.

[userpay]

Hmm.... I wonder if it'd be possible to make some sort of sniper archtype for Iron Man. Focusing on very long-range, high-damage, single attacks. Or would that be too far from the concept?

Hmmm... We already have a start with the full action single fire use of the repulsors via targeting matrix...

[Threadnaught]

No PrCs yet. I'm still hoping for that really big gun PrC.

[zhdarkstar]

I just noticed two possible points of confusion with the Natural Forger.

1) Is Natural Surge considered a positive energy effect like Lay on Hands? That gives you the ability to recharge yourself.

2) What happens if this archetype is taken by the undead or those with negative energy affinity? This was brought to light due to one of the major plot points of the new Avengers Assemble cartoon:

Spoiler

Show

Red Skull steals Iron Man's armor, dubbing himself the Iron Skull

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Revived with permission.

[zhdarkstar]

So I decided to knock out a couple requests for extra material. I give you the Weapon Channeller, aka Whiplash, and the Sentinel, a racial archetype for all of your living construct needs.

The Weapon Channeller

Spoiler

Show

Some Iron Men see repulsors not as a pure weapon in itself, but as a source of extra power to make their mounted weapons deadlier. The Weapon Channeller's saving throws are Good Fortitude, Poor Reflex and Will.

Weapon Proficiency: The Weapon Channeller gains a single melee Exotic Weapon Proficiency in addition to its normal proficiencies. He may use this weapon with Weapon Mounts so long as it is a one-handed or light weapon. If it is a two-handed exotic weapon, he must wait until Advanced Weapon Mounts allows him to mount a two-handed weapon instead.

Bonus Feats:The Weapon Channeller gains Two Weapon Fighting at first level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites of the feats, that may only be used with his mounted weapons. The character may treat his Intelligence score as his Dexterity score for the purposes of qualifying for Two-Weapon Fighting and its subsequent feats.

Suits: The character gains additional suits at 6th, 12th, and 18th level. The character's suits must all have the Weapon Mount modification at 1st level, as well as Defensive Matrix at 5th level, Augment Strength at 8th level, and Arc Reactor at 14th level.

Armor Modifications: Gain 1 less modification at 9th and 15th level. Lose access to Repulsor Blade, Elemental Repulsors, Adamantine Cutting Beam, and unarmed combat modifications. Must take Weapon Mount at 1st level and Defensive Matrix at 5th level. At 8th level, the character must take Augment Strength, and at 14th level the character must take the Arc Reactor modification.

Repulsors: The Weapon Channeller's repulsors lose the damage increases at 3rd, 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th levels. In exchange he gains the following class features: Repulsor Channeling, Advanced Weapon Mounts.

Repulsor Channeling: At 3rd level, the Weapon Channeller adjusts the output on his repulsors to channel the energy through his weapon mount. He may add his repulsor damage to successful attacks made with his mounted melee weapons.

Advanced Weapon Mounts: At 7th level, the Weapon Channeller syncs his Targeting Matrix and Defensive Matrix together to optimize the effectiveness of attacks made with his mounted weapons, while also putting himself in a better defensive position in the process. He may add the bonus from Targeting Matrix to attack rolls made with his mounted melee weapons, as well as to CMB for combat maneuvers using the mounted weapon. Alternately, he may use Targeting Matrix as a full-round action to deliver a single melee attack at his highest attack bonus, with the same bonuses to attack and damage described in Targeting Matrix, and adding the insight bonus from Targeting Matrix to AC and CMD until the start of his next turn. At 11th level, he expands the amount of space his mounted weapons can occupy. He may either replace his current mounted weapon with a two-handed melee weapon or mount a second one-handed or light melee weapon. At 15th level, he may treat a one-handed weapon in his off-hand as a light weapon when two-weapon fighting. At 19th level, he may wield a mounted two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon, reducing the amount of Strength bonus added to damage accordingly. Alternately, he may treat a mounted one-handed or light melee weapon as if he were wielding it in two hands, increasing the amount of Strength bonus added to damage. This alternate use may only be applied to his off-hand weapon if he has the Double Slice feat.

The Sentinel

Spoiler

Show

Sometimes the Iron Man is already made of iron before he ever puts on his armor suit. The armor suit acts more as a skin than a suit of armor for these Iron Men. This is a racial archetype for intelligent constructs with Constitution scores that can be combined with any other archetype, even if the two archetypes modify the same class feature. Apply the changes of both archetypes to such class features if the changes affect different parts of the same feature.

Suits: The Sentinel only has one armor suit, which is an integrated part of his body. He may sleep in his armor without being fatigued, regardless of its type. Whenever he gains an extra suit via class features, he instead gains an extra armor modification known of any level available to him.

Armor Modifications: The Sentinel adds his natural armor bonus, if any, to determine the maximum amount of modifications that can be installed.

Battery: The Sentinel may add his Constitution modifier, in addition to his Intelligence modifier, to determine his battery pool.

Master Armorer: As the Sentinel's armor suit and body are one and the same, the restrictions on what kinds of wondrous items that can be integrated into the armor have been lifted.

Construct Armor: Whenever the Sentinel receives damage that is reduced by Construct Armor, that damage is treated as lethal damage instead of nonlethal damage. The Sentinel is not entangled when a broken Construct Armor becomes inert, but still suffers all other effects.

Repair Nanites: Repair Nanites may be used to heal hit points to either the armor or to the Sentinel himself. Alternately, the Sentinel may spend an extra battery point as an augmentation to heal both the armor and the Sentinel for 10 hit points each.