[PF] The Invincible Iron Man mk II [Base Class, revised]

[Deviston]

Very nicely done, always good to see maur tobors.

[zhdarkstar]

Thank you very much. I've got an idea in my head for a big gun PrC that will likely be a Iron Man/Gunslinger hybrid. Just need to work out a couple kinks in terms of entry requirements (thinking Master Armorer/3rd level deeds/at least one skill with 10 ranks) and deed/repulsor progression. One key class feature will be a gritty battery pool that can be spent as either one, but counts as neither for effects that depend on having at least 1 grit/battery. It'll get a modified version of Construct Armor that is a bit more Dex-based than vanilla.

EDIT: In the meantime, I have a bunch of sample builds using the Sentinel archetype. Each zip contains the level 8/12/16/20 versions. These are more theoretical builds I made as sparring partners for other test builds. I went a little above WBL on some of them, so they would make for great boss fights rather than PC pregens.

Repulsor Lord
The Iron Titan
War Machine

EDIT 2: A question just came up in my head for a future game I'm going to play in. Would a Scrap Smith be able to add his Scrap Shot damage to Knuckle Bombs?

[Deviston]

1) Scrap Shot seems to replace the effect of the repulsors, not exactly removing repulsors altogether.

2) Knuckle bombs deals repulsor damage (I assume you are referring to the grenade part) upon spending battery or a crit.

I would say yes you can take knuckle bombs and it would still deal the bludgeoning damage of big fist on your regular melee attacks with it. However, upon a crit or spending of battery you would get the piercing damage of the shrapnel. Additionally, scrap shot has an additional mechanic that is wonky. Here is where I feel you are really trying to get an answer.

"Does the grenade get the bleeding?"

I honestly don't know. I can see it going either way really, in the end there just needs to be a ruling decided between you and Errant. No real reason why not if you get the penalty to attack rolls (say the violent expulsion of the shrapnel might make aiming your fist slightly difficult). But if there is no penalty... seems to me like a great choice with no down side.

[zhdarkstar]

1) Scrap Shot seems to replace the effect of the repulsors, not exactly removing repulsors altogether.

2) Knuckle bombs deals repulsor damage (I assume you are referring to the grenade part) upon spending battery or a crit.

I would say yes you can take knuckle bombs and it would still deal the bludgeoning damage of big fist on your regular melee attacks with it. However, upon a crit or spending of battery you would get the piercing damage of the shrapnel. Additionally, scrap shot has an additional mechanic that is wonky. Here is where I feel you are really trying to get an answer.

"Does the grenade get the bleeding?"

I honestly don't know. I can see it going either way really, in the end there just needs to be a ruling decided between you and Errant. No real reason why not if you get the penalty to attack rolls (say the violent expulsion of the shrapnel might make aiming your fist slightly difficult). But if there is no penalty... seems to me like a great choice with no down side.

The problem with applying the penalty to the attack roll is that the grenade effect occurs after the attack roll is already successful, and making it go off only if the attack succeeds by more than 1 would be a pointless caveat. Considering that the bleed is based on a Reflex save, it's going to be prevented most of the time anyways. Only against the large and slow stuff will the bleed have a better chance of success. Even if it doesn't work, the loss of the Iron Titan archetype is marginalized by still making good use of all of the other archetypes.

However, a new Scrap Shot question has come to mind. Since they're only prohibited from taking Flight Repulsors, does Repulsor Blade become Scrap Blade and what type of damage does it do? I could honestly see it doing all three types (or at least P/S), switchable as a swift action like Elemental Repulsors. Again, the bleed damage is more of a nonissue in my book due to being a Reflex save. It could be fluffed as shaping the scrap into the desired blade type. To reduce the reliance on magical items to grant flight, perhaps a new lesser armor modification can be added to grant not-as-good non-repulsor flight via synergy with flame throwers. It could also be an alternate qualifier for Flight Mastery instead of Flight Repulsors, with bump from poor to average instead of good.

Spoiler

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Lesser Modification
Rocket Boosters - (Prerequisites: Jump Jets, Flame Throwers) By making modifications to the fuel output of the flame throwers via a set of specially designed thrusters attached to the boots and shoulders, the character is capable of achieving non-repulsor flight. This form of flight is not as effective or reliable as repulsor-based flight, but it also does not require having hands free to operate. As a swift action, the character gains a flight speed of 40ft with poor maneuverability, but otherwise function identically to either fly or overland flight depending on the level of flame throwers installed. Least flame throwers act as fly with a caster level equal to the character's initiator level. Lesser flame throwers as overland flight with a caster level equal to the character's initiator level, but lasts 10 minutes per level instead. Greater flame throwers act as overland flight with a caster level equal to the character's initiator level. While active, the character cannot use his flame throwers. After the fourth round of consecutive flight, the character may activate the afterburners to double his flight speed as a swift action. Each round of using afterburners counts as one minute of flight instead of one round. When the flight ends, the character must wait 1d6+4 rounds before using either flame throwers or rocket boosters. If afterburners were used during that flight, the character must wait an additional number of minutes equal to the amount of rounds of afterburner use within the last 10 rounds of flight. Rocket boosters cannot be used if the character is waiting to use flame throwers after using flame throwers. If the character has the bunker buster armor modification, he may expend the use of a rocket to function as an afterburner that lasts a number of rounds equal to amount of damage dice of the rocket. This use does not incur any penalty to the duration of flight nor the cooldown after flight.

EDIT: Here's a possible lesser armor mod that hinges on the unanswered questions I had regarding Natural Forgers and positive/negative energy. It would be just for Natural Forgers to give them a nice ranged heal/harm option and a better reason for them to take repulsor blade over weapon mount and knuckle bombs for the melee option, as you can't stack Repulsor Lord on top due to both significantly changing Battery. It is designed on the assumptions that Natural Surge is a positive energy effect like Lay on Hands and a negative energy affinity variant (aka Decayed Forger) for the purposes of Life Force/Natural Surge as death is also a natural part of life.

Spoiler

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Lesser Modification
Natural Repulsors - (prerequisites: Elemental Repulsors, Natural Surge) As a swift action, the character may spend 1 battery point and a use of Natural Surge to change the damage of his repulsors to the same energy type as Natural Surge. If used to heal a willing target, no attack roll is needed and the character rolls half of his repulsor damage dice, rounded down, to determine the amount of hit points restored. Healing via repulsors may be used in place of a repulsor attack as part of a full-attack or with Targeting Matrix, adding the damage bonus to the amount of hit points restored. This effect lasts 1 round per two initiator levels.

EDIT 2: Edited Advanced Weapon Mounts on the Weapon Channeller to line up the full-round single strike's attack and damage bonuses with Targeting Matrix.

[Deviston]

It all sounds great. I would however like to see the flamethrower flight have an unlimited flight time that doubles in speed after 10 full rounds of flight at the iron man's option. However, after activating this "afterburn" flight, as soon as the flight turns off all the related gear is on cooldown for a full 10 minutes. Or something similar.

[zhdarkstar]

It all sounds great. I would however like to see the flamethrower flight have an unlimited flight time that doubles in speed after 10 full rounds of flight at the iron man's option. However, after activating this "afterburn" flight, as soon as the flight turns off all the related gear is on cooldown for a full 10 minutes. Or something similar.

I changed up rocket boosters to act functionally similar fly and overland flight, but with the lesser speed and maneuverability. I did add in the afterburner mechanic that can be activated on the 5th round of flight, counting each round of afterburner as 1 minute of flight instead of 1 round and adding a penalty to cooldown if flight ends within 1 minute of afterburner use, which makes the cooldown range from 30 seconds (5 rounds) to 11 minutes. I think that functions a bit more realistically as the air passing over you in post-afterburner flight would cool the jets faster than a sudden stop would. Thus, the character has to be cognitive of their fuel supply when applying afterburners.

EDIT: Just also added a synergy with Bunker Buster to act as a penalty-free afterburner for emergency situations where you need the speed but don't have time for the necessary mid-flight cooldown. Scrap Smith War Machine is now looking pretty nice.

Speaking of War Machine, I realized in hindsight that he will invariably need Gunsmithing like any Gunslinger. Would granting it as a bonus feat with the same caveat as the others be too much for 1st level? Master Armorer already allows him to create and enchant the guns, but doesn't say whether it also allows for the creation of ammo or repair of broken weapons. Most games I've played are lax when it comes to keeping track of mundane ammo, but it doesn't hurt to have some ruling for the stricter games. Gunsmithing is what makes the Gunslinger viable because of how expensive ammo is.

EDIT 2: One thought that crossed my mind came about thinking about while working on the IM/GS PrC. Could you have multiple installations of certain armor modifications like weapon mount and bunker buster, with each one occupying a slot on the armor? The reason I ask is because in build design, I've come to realize that a full-plate modular extremis armor will hold all but one of the armor modifications known at level 20. That does kinda put a hamper on having variety among your suits if you can only have one installation per type. That way a War Machine could have one armor with two bunker busters and another with two heavy ballistic cannons, instead of being stuck with one of each on every suit. It would also give the Weapon Channeller better use of its class abilities by having each suit be more than a one-trick pony when it comes to weapon options.

[Deviston]

Nice job on the scrap flight. Nicely done. I keep thinking of Obe's suit. (Hmmm... Obe Stane Betrayme, I wonder if she means Old Bediah Stane)

As for the multi-mods.... I wonder if it would cause power issues. That being said I totally agree with multiple of the same mods. Why COULDN'T you have 15 missile launchers? I mean, Robocop had a gun pop out of his leg for gods' sake.

And as for gunsmithing, couldn't you make a mod for it which grants the feat that fella gets for free?

[zhdarkstar]

Nice job on the scrap flight. Nicely done. I keep thinking of Obe's suit. (Hmmm... Obe Stane Betrayme, I wonder if she means Old Bediah Stane)

As for the multi-mods.... I wonder if it would cause power issues. That being said I totally agree with multiple of the same mods. Why COULDN'T you have 15 missile launchers? I mean, Robocop had a gun pop out of his leg for gods' sake.

And as for gunsmithing, couldn't you make a mod for it which grants the feat that fella gets for free?

Well I think that the multi-mod should only really apply to certain mods, and even then different mods would have different max limits based on the description. Like the Bunker Buster and Heavy Ballistic Cannon mods both mention shoulders, so you would be limited to one mod on each shoulder. Weapon mount is a bit more universal as you could theoretically have mounts built into the arms, legs, chest, or back, so that one could be left unlimited in terms of installation cap due to the collapsible nature of the weapons.

Speaking of Robocop, the new PrC is going to get access to ranged weapon mounts to take advantage of the expanded array of firearms available. I'm looking at the modern firearms page of d20pfsrd to get inspiration for the class-exclusive armor mods. That 6 Pounder looks nice....

EDIT: Like I said before, the only real benefit for Gunsmithing is the discount on ammo and shorter repair time. As every other class and archetype that uses guns gets Gunsmithing at 1st level, I think it was an oversight in design that I left it out. The War Machine's offense relies on guns so it's necessary. The trade-off is going to be the same as any other Gunslinger, but multiplied due to 4 barrels of Light Ballistic Housings. Here's the addendum that should be added to War Machine, whenever X can get around to it:

War Machine Addendum
Gunsmithing: At 1st level, the War Machine gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat. It can only be used on firearms and ammunition for integrated ballistic weapons. All four barrels of the Light Ballistic Housings gained at 1st level are battered like the gun received by the Gunslinger. Each barrel must be restored individually.

[wrathkin]

I was so moved by this class that I simply had to mention some notes and pointers.

Your wording for modifications ( least ) where stated "If you take it as a Greater Modification" should be organized under Greater, not a note under the least, as a player who hasn't read through the whole class ( like many ) would not know they CAN take it as a greater, especially if rolling quickly.

On that note, your abilities granted seem to be working on a ki-based system. That's fine if the abilities are slightly scaling like adding a +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon temporarily. Your abilities are mimicking 5th and above level spells.

I recommend moving to a spell-point based system, utilizing 1 point per spell level of the ability. Because in all honesty, If I have Int+43 battery charge at level 20 (or Int+23 at level 10 ), I am in fact going to spam one attack. Extra Battery is the only feat I really need.

Multiple suits is fine on paper, but then you're talking about a GM's nightmare dealing with which suit they're wearing at the time, and some players fudging whether they're wearing the stealth or the combat suit.
I recommend making it one suit of armor, and the abilities you get can be changed every even level ( as you've noted ), but the ironman must stick with what he's got. You can "Flavor" these swaps as multiple suits, but having 3 suits does not make a character more fun to manage on the player side, and makes the GM pull his hair out with equally high bonuses for all skills and attacks. Example:
Player: "I put on my stealth armor and move forward...I put on my combat armor and attack!"
GM : "You can't put on your combat armor silently, and it takes you a full round. I hope you roll high on initiative!" [GM kills character cause of a single roll]
( I know you mention specifically that they are separate armors etcetera, but heading off a problem before it starts is a perfect solution. )

Incidentally, I saw that several of your abilities from least / lesser / greater break spell-dice damage limitation ( dice / caster level, or damage / irresistable missile ), and trade it off by only having 1 / encounter. A wizard may only prepare one empowered, maximized fireball, but it is highly effective. The cost for an ability that deals half again as many dice should not be 1 point and only be usable once as a balancing tactic. A high roll of 20d6 can kill many monsters / groups of monsters. This is a character breaking flaw.

Note: This class draws inspiration from Iron Man ( proper noun ), but people who play this can and should have to struggle more, because that not only founds attachment to the character, but also makes for better storytelling.

I'm not knocking your class: Its good on the growth table. It looks really good. But some of these modifications are worded too powerfully and could be "broken" with inexperienced players by accident. As a GM, I don't ever want to explain to a player they need to roll up a new character because they're breaking the game, especially during their first game.

[Milo v3]

:
Player: "I put on my stealth armor and move forward...I put on my combat armor and attack!"
GM : "You can't put on your combat armor silently, and it takes you a full round. I hope you roll high on initiative!" [GM kills character cause of a single roll]

If your changing armour mid battle, your player has much larger issues with his character design than this class....

[Yasahiro]

Are there any chances of tips on how to convert this into 3.5, since some stuff is like this because some 3.5 stuff doesn't exist in PF?

[Milo v3]

Are there any chances of tips on how to convert this into 3.5, since some stuff is like this because some 3.5 stuff doesn't exist in PF?

Go to the skills section, remove Fly and split Perception into Listen and Spot. I'm 90% sure that is all that is required after skimming the class again.

[Volthawk]

So is the Iron Titan's Powerful Build a free modification, or does it take up one of the starting three (despite normally being Lesser not Least)? Also, what's the point of the 2nd suit at level 5? I mean, unless you're using breastplate and the enchantment bonus doesn't give mod slots, your initial suit will still be sufficient for all your current mods.

[Milo v3]

So is the Iron Titan's Powerful Build a free modification, or does it take up one of the starting three (despite normally being Lesser not Least)? Also, what's the point of the 2nd suit at level 5? I mean, unless you're using breastplate and the enchantment bonus doesn't give mod slots, your initial suit will still be sufficient for all your current mods.

I believe each suit is meant to have it's own separate set of mod slots.

[Volthawk]

I believe each suit is meant to have it's own separate set of mod slots.

I wasn't sure if that was the case, particularly because at later levels the mods exceed the amount of slots a single suit would have.

[Milo v3]

Actually after looking, yeah you're right, there isn't a separate set of slots per suit.

[Mavakith]

This is great!!! why did i found out abt this just now?!?

just curious, how would u increase the damage output of the ballistics mods without using the "War Machine" type or using ranged martial disciplines such as "Black Rain"?

For the "Light Ballistic Housings", it said that there's two barrels in each wrist.. Does it means that it can use the rules for double barrel? so it could be treated as a double barrel revolver?

double barrel shooting, twf and full attack results in shooting out 12 bullets?