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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NowhereMan583's Avatar

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    Default Help with Half-____ Templates

    On the grounds that having "half-elf" and "half-orc" as races instead of templates is kind of nonsensical from an in-universe perspective, I decided to put together "half-" templates for all the playable races in the setting for the next campaign I'm running. (With the intent that my players could, if they so desired, roll up a half-goblin gnome or some such thing.)

    Unfortunately, I'm somewhat of a novice at this whole homebrewing thing, and I've never done templates before, so I'm having some difficulty. I wrote up the ones I needed, but I have a nagging suspicion that I've somehow done it wrong.

    So, here they are -- I was hoping some of you more experienced homebrewers could explain any places I've gone wrong, or possibly point me to a source that did them better. (I did some Googling before I started crafting these, but I couldn't find any premade half-elf/orc/whatever templates.)

    Half-Orc:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Medium
    Type: As base creature
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision (60ft)
    • Light Sensitivity (dazzled by bright sunlight)

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +2 Strength
    • -2 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers: None
    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Elf:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Medium
    Type: As base creature
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • +4 bonus on saves vs. sleep effects
    • +2 bonus on saves vs. enchantment

    Low-light vision
    Ability Modifiers:
    • +1 Dexterity
    • -2 Constitution
    • +1 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +1 Listen
    • +1 Search
    • +1 Spot

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Halfling (Quarterling?)
    Spoiler
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    Size: Small or Medium, depending on size of base creature
    Type: As base creature
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • +1 morale bonus on saves vs. fear
    • +1 attack bonus with thrown weapons

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +2 Dexterity
    • -2 Strength

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +1 Climb
    • +1 Jump
    • +1 Listen
    • +1 Move Silently

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Gnome:
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    Size: Small or Medium, depending on size of base creature
    Type: As base creature
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • +1 bonus on saves vs. illusions

    Low-light vision
    • +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class vs. giants and giantkin
    • Speak with Animals 1/week (burrowing animals only)
    • Prestidigitation 1/day

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +1 Constitution
    • -2 Strength

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +1 Listen
    • +1 Craft (Alchemy)

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Dwarf:
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    Size: Small or Medium, depending on size of base creature
    Type: As base creature
    Speed: 5ft slower than base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision (60ft)
    • +2 bonus on saves vs. bull rush and trip (when standing firmly on the ground)
    • +1 bonus on saves vs. poison
    • +1 bonus on saves vs. spells and spell-like effects

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +2 Constitution
    • -2 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers: None
    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Goblin:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Small or Medium, depending on size of base creature
    Type: Add the Goblinoid subtype
    Speed: 5ft faster than base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision (60ft)

    Ability Modifiers:
    • -2 Strength
    • +2 Dexterity
    • -2 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +2 Move Silently

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Hobgoblin:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Medium
    Type: Add the Goblinoid subtype
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision (60ft)

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +2 Constitution
    • -2 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +2 Move Silently

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Bugbear:
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    Size: Medium
    Type: Add the Goblinoid subtype
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision 60ft
    • Scent
    • +1 natural armor bonus to Armor Class

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +2 Strength
    • +2 Constitution
    • -2 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +2 Move Silently

    Level Adjustment: +1

    Half-Ogre:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Medium or Large, depending on size of base creature
    Type: Giant
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision (60ft)
    • +2 natural armor bonus to AC

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +5 Strength
    • +2 Constitution
    • -2 Intelligence
    • -2 Charisma

    Skill Modifiers: None
    Level Adjustment: +1


    Half-Lizardfolk:
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    Size: Medium
    Type: Add the Reptilian subtype
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • +2 natural armor bonus to AC
    • A half-lizardfolk can hold its breath underwater for a number of rounds equal to twice its Constitution score before it risks drowning

    Ability Modifiers:
    • +2 Constitution
    • -2 Intelligence

    Skill Modifiers: None
    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Kobold:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Small or Medium, depending on size of base creature
    Type: Add the Reptilian subtype
    Speed: 5ft faster than base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • +1 natural armor bonus to Armor Class
    • Darkvision (60ft)
    • Light Sensitivity (dazzled by bright sunlight)

    Ability Modifiers:
    • -2 Strength
    • +2 Dexterity
    • -2 Constitution

    Skill Modifiers:
    • +1 Search

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Half-Gnoll:
    Spoiler
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    Size: Medium
    Type: Add the Gnoll subtype
    Speed: As base creature
    Special Qualities:
    • Darkvision (60ft)

    Ability Modifiers:
    • Strength +2
    • Charisma -2

    Skill Modifiers:
    • Listen +1
    • Spot +2

    Level Adjustment: 0


    Thank you.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    The size entry should say "As the base creature" if the template doesn't change it. I like the idea, but I've a feeling that taking one of these on a human really just makes a better human, if you know what I mean. And I can certainly see an elven rogue going "hey, I ca take Quarterling for +4 total dex!"
    While I am not quite sure that these are incredibly overpowered, they do enable someone to specialize to a point that was not possible before at LA 0.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    These are all pretty nifty. There are some things to keep in mind though. Never give odd ability bonuses or penalties, as you did with the half-elf. Also for size, unless you intended those as requirements (a feasible idea) they should be as base creature, as mentioned above. And of course, remember that a half-hobgoblin dwarf now has doubled his racial modifiers, which is awesome for something that plays those up. As long as you're alright with free bonuses being given, they are all fairly alright for use.

    EDIT: I reformatted the Half-Ogre template in a way that might be more in line with what you were intending there:

    Half-Ogre:
    Half-Ogre is a template that can be applied to any living creature of medium or large size. A Half-Ogre uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
    Type: Becomes Giant
    Special Qualities:
    Darkvision (60ft)
    +2 natural armor bonus to AC
    Ability Modifiers:
    +6 Strength
    +2 Constitution
    -2 Intelligence
    -2 Charisma
    Level Adjustment: +1
    Last edited by Mithril Leaf; 2013-06-14 at 04:16 AM.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    I didn't actually intend the sizes as requirements -- I was thinking that, for example, applying the half-ogre template couldn't possibly result in a Small creature. If one gave a goblin ogre heritage, for instance, the resulting creature would be Medium-sized. (What with the theoretical availability of Reduce Person charms, I would not say that it was impossible for two creatures of disparate size to produce offspring, so I didn't think of applying size requirements to the templates.)

    The potential for abusing these templates does concern me. I don't play with a high-op group, so I'm not too worried about flagrantly min-maxed characters, but it does seem like these are a little too good for LA 0. This is actually one of the reasons I thought I should get some outside thoughts: I was having difficulty coming up with penalties I could logically apply to them -- something that makes sense in-universe, rather than obviously just being there to balance things out. How do you think I might tweak them so that they actually balance between advantages and disadvantages?

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by NowhereMan583 View Post
    I didn't actually intend the sizes as requirements -- I was thinking that, for example, applying the half-ogre template couldn't possibly result in a Small creature. If one gave a goblin ogre heritage, for instance, the resulting creature would be Medium-sized. (What with the theoretical availability of Reduce Person charms, I would not say that it was impossible for two creatures of disparate size to produce offspring, so I didn't think of applying size requirements to the templates.)

    The potential for abusing these templates does concern me. I don't play with a high-op group, so I'm not too worried about flagrantly min-maxed characters, but it does seem like these are a little too good for LA 0. This is actually one of the reasons I thought I should get some outside thoughts: I was having difficulty coming up with penalties I could logically apply to them -- something that makes sense in-universe, rather than obviously just being there to balance things out. How do you think I might tweak them so that they actually balance between advantages and disadvantages?
    Ah, it should probably be something along the lines of
    Size: Minimum of small.
    or
    Size: Maximum of medium.
    For those then. As far as balance is concerned, I honestly have no sound ideas that don't make them too unappealing to take. That's the hardest part of making +0 LA templates.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    well since LA 0 templates can be abusable, try LA .5, so if you have two la .5 you get LA +1. Does that make sense?
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    I think my players might be kind of leery about having fractional ELs... and it would be kind of strange to apply two "Half-___" templates to one character.

    "My character is a dwarf with the half-gnome and half-ogre templates."
    "Wait, so... which part of you is dwarf?"

    ...

    While I was typing the above, I thought of something.

    What if I were to add a "basic" race? Something with absolutely no racial benefits -- essentially, a human without the extra feat and whatnot. Then you could add two half-_____ templates on top of that to indicate what your character actually is. (Of course, I'd also have to make a half-human template in that situation, but that shouldn't be any more difficult than this was.)

    That could solve the LA problem, right?

    Or does it not actually make any sense outside of my head?

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    I quite like these templates These will come in quite handy!

    The half-human and base-race idea that's basically a blank slate is pretty cool too.

    I would, however, like to suggest a half-drow template in addition to these - there's a half-drow race in one of the books, but it's just a half-elf with darkvision.
    Last edited by gurgleflep; 2013-06-14 at 03:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    I think the half- for every race sounds perfect. Actually, you could split every race in half, and have two templates for each. So a human would be half-human(1) and half-human(2), but a half-elf could be half-human(1) and half-elf(2) or half-human(2) and half-elf(1).

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    I think I would like this better if it reproduced the half-races from the d20SRD. Or is this not a 3.5 project?

    I like TheLonelyScribe's idea, but I have two concerns: first, some half-races have features that belong to neither parent. The SRD half-elf has a +2 racial bonus to diplomacy and gather information checks, for instance. Second, it would be difficult to divide the racial packages exactly in half so that each is balanced.

    Although I suppose both concerns could be addressed at once. For instance, maybe one half of the 'elf' race has a +2 bonus that is counter-acted by a -2 racial penalty on the other half. That would explain why the standard half-elf has a boost to diplomacy, but suggests that there are other half-elves who would be aloof and shy and have a -2 racial penalty to those same skills. When they are combined to make a standard elf there is no net bonus or penalty. Similarly, one half of Dwarf might have +2 Con and -2 Dex, while the other half has +2 Dex and -2 Cha. Combined they are the standard +2 Con and -2 Cha of a 3.5 dwarf.

    It might be wise to sometimes include a small separation penalty that occurs if the halves are separated. Just to discourage people from choosing the best halves. This gives a little margin against accidentally giving one half an unfair share of the racial benefits.

    edit: You might want bonuses to overlap rather than stack. If one half-race gets +2 Con and -2 Dex and another gets +2 Con and -2 Int, the result is +2 Con and -2 Dex and Int. Just to avoid min-maxing. You might also give the same ability to each side. Both sides of Dwarf might get stability and stone-cunning, say, that wouldn't stack, but which would ensure that all half-dwarfs have a certain amount of dwarfishness.
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-06-15 at 08:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Sorry for the terrible organisation of my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by NowhereMan583 View Post
    On the grounds that having "half-elf" and "half-orc" as races instead of templates is kind of nonsensical from an in-universe perspective, I decided to put together "half-" templates for all the playable races in the setting for the next campaign I'm running. (With the intent that my players could, if they so desired, roll up a half-goblin gnome or some such thing.)
    There are reasons that those are races, though. For example, the Half elf isn't always just a cross of a human and an elf. In some settings (such as Eberron) Half-elves are a true-breeding race.
    There are also limits on what race can breed with what, for whatever reason (you could not have a Half-elf dwarf, for example). Also, your templates currently can be applied to any creature, including undead and constructs. You need the text at the beginning of the template that looks like this:
    [Template] is an inherited template that can be applied to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
    Format the rest of the template like those on the SRD.

    Savage species has a whole section on this.

    On the subject of actual, reviewing, I find the +1 ability bonuses odd, as they are very situational. There is a reason that those are not normally present—when used correctly, they are no different from a +2, so that difference is negligible.

    Also, having pure half-breed races allows them to be balanced and playable. Take, for example, your Half-gnoll. Any human fighter would take it just for the strength bonus, and they would also get the human bonus feat and skill.
    That makes it worth a +1 level adjustment, as it is strictly better than a normal human.

    And I would assume the base race is the mother's race?

    You also might want to look at the dragonborn as an example of a 0 LA race-modifying template.
    Last edited by Zweisteine; 2013-06-15 at 03:54 PM.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Give the template a requirement stating that it may not be taken by any creature which it's a half of. (So with half-orc, something which can't be taken by someone with the humanoid (orc) subtype)

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLonelyScribe View Post
    I think the half- for every race sounds perfect. Actually, you could split every race in half, and have two templates for each. So a human would be half-human(1) and half-human(2), but a half-elf could be half-human(1) and half-elf(2) or half-human(2) and half-elf(1).
    This is an awesome idea. And I think it would justify odd bonuses like 5e has.

    PEACH time, though.
    1) NEVER give odd bonuses to ability scores unless you have a valid excuse like in 5e.
    2) You should clarify the sizes. I have no clue what size I should be
    3) So what happens if I have a quarterling halfling? Would it become a 3/4-ling?
    4) Stacking makes sense... A dwarf with the half-gnome and half-ogre templates would be 1/4 dwarf, 1/4 gnome and 1/2 ogre.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    PEACH time, though.
    1) NEVER give odd bonuses to ability scores unless you have a valid excuse like in 5e.
    2) You should clarify the sizes. I have no clue what size I should be
    3) So what happens if I have a quarterling halfling? Would it become a 3/4-ling?
    4) Stacking makes sense... A dwarf with the half-gnome and half-ogre templates would be 1/4 dwarf, 1/4 gnome and 1/2 ogre.
    PEACH the PEACH!

    1) Yes.
    2) Yes.
    2) No. (agreed)
    3) Stacking really doesn't make sense... the blood would be diluted, so you'd need quarter race templates (such as the eighthling, then the sixteenthling).
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    4) Stacking really doesn't make sense... the blood would be diluted, so you'd need quarter race templates (such as the eighthling, then the sixteenthling).
    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

    (Free for sig-quoting, if anyone wants it)
    dibz on the quote!

    and also, stacking can be done legally within the rules, if stuff didnt make sense, then we would only have fighters and commoners, because i mean cmon this is D&D :)
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Don't know about the stat bonus/penalties, but I have an idea for a Half-troll.

    Size: Medium or Large, depending on size of base creature
    Type: Giant
    Speed: As base creature

    Special Qualities:
    Darkvision (60ft)
    Rapid Metabolism as a bonus feat.

    Ability Modifiers:
    +2 Constitution
    -2 Dexterity
    -2 Charisma
    Skill Modifiers: None
    Level Adjustment: +0


    Giant type, a bit extra con, not as bright/look wierder then the base race, and you have improved healing abillities. Not fast healing or regeneration, but better. Maybe a racial feat that allows them to regenerate/reattach limbs?
    Last edited by Grimsage Matt; 2013-06-22 at 03:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    4) Stacking makes sense... A dwarf with the half-gnome and half-ogre templates would be 1/4 dwarf, 1/4 gnome and 1/2 ogre.
    Or maybe 1/2 dwarf, 1/4 gnome and 1/4 ogre, but that's still a quite complicated genealogy.
    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

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    dibz on the quote!
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    "I am a human sixtyfourthling! Fear my minimal halfling ancestry!"

    (Free for sig-quoting, if anyone wants it)
    Would that just be a sixtyfourthling? I mean, if halfling doesn't already include the human bit, what is the other half?

    This has logic:
    The generic half-[race] referred to by no other race is a half-[race] human (ex. the half-elf race is, in fact, a half-elf human).
    Thus, a halfling must be a half-ling human!

    So the real question is, what is a Ling?


    And that's free for infinite sig-quoting too. :)


    Is that free for one sig-quoter, or many, Razanir?
    Last edited by Zweisteine; 2013-06-16 at 03:56 PM.
    Jon Snow and Ghost avatar (not currently in use) by Gurgleflep 15370262 328.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    Is that free for one sig-quoter, or many, Razanir?
    For many, of course.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    So the real question is, what is a Ling?


    And that's free for infinite sig-quoting too. :)

    Is that free for one sig-quoter, or many, Razanir?
    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    For many, of course.
    I'm going to take both then. Thanks.
    Last edited by Network; 2013-06-17 at 04:15 PM.

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    Lightbulb Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    This is my first post so bare with me first off by giving templates that grant ability moddifiers over and above the base race makes every char who looks for breaks know that your strongest chars will always have the half template because have all the traits from the base race plus these template traits if u wanted to do a half template in my opinion do just that make a list of variable traits based on race traits, then take those traits and break em into categories natural(ie ability mods), social(traits based on training), and physical(traits based on keen sight and the like). Then since u have a list of traits and what categories they fall under allow the players to create custom half breeds by choosing traits from the half list and swapping them out for there base race traits. Excepet for humans they should get the positive ability adjust meant for free and possibly one other trait at no swap cost just to keep them balanced with all other races now this means as an example if I wanted to do a half orc half elf I could trade out the weapon familiarity(social) for the orcs for the elven equivalent also social or trade lowlight vision(physical,elf) for dark vision (physical,orc). This gives Ur players the options to have chars that are not cookie cutter, in the above example that char could be the offspring from an orc raid on an elven town, the mother of the char who is elven and is treating him to be an elven (hence swapping social traits but still the player shows physical signs perhaps he's stronger and has darkvision. Either that or institute heavy in game penalties for half breeds
    Ur gonna have a bad time playing with the fey

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ng3rsc0tt View Post
    This is my first post so bare with me first off by giving templates that grant ability moddifiers over and above the base race makes every char who looks for breaks know that your strongest chars will always have the half template because have all the traits from the base race plus these template traits if u wanted to do a half template in my opinion do just that make a list of variable traits based on race traits, then take those traits and break em into categories natural(ie ability mods), social(traits based on training), and physical(traits based on keen sight and the like). Then since u have a list of traits and what categories they fall under allow the players to create custom half breeds by choosing traits from the half list and swapping them out for there base race traits. Excepet for humans they should get the positive ability adjust meant for free and possibly one other trait at no swap cost just to keep them balanced with all other races now this means as an example if I wanted to do a half orc half elf I could trade out the weapon familiarity(social) for the orcs for the elven equivalent also social or trade lowlight vision(physical,elf) for dark vision (physical,orc). This gives Ur players the options to have chars that are not cookie cutter, in the above example that char could be the offspring from an orc raid on an elven town, the mother of the char who is elven and is treating him to be an elven (hence swapping social traits but still the player shows physical signs perhaps he's stronger and has darkvision. Either that or institute heavy in game penalties for half breeds
    Periods. Use them. I think I've figured out you're trying to say "Don't have half-templates, people will just make half-elf elves, et al." which would already be banned by a properly made set of templates.
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Zweisteine View Post
    Would that just be a sixtyfourthling? I mean, if halfling doesn't already include the human bit, what is the other half?

    This has logic:
    The generic half-[race] referred to by no other race is a half-[race] human (ex. the half-elf race is, in fact, a half-elf human).
    Thus, a halfling must be a half-ling human!

    So the real question is, what is a Ling?
    According to Dictionary.com a Ling is
    1.
    an elongated, marine, gadid food fish, Molva molva, of Greenland and northern Europe.
    2.
    the burbot.
    3.
    any of various other elongated food fishes.

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    HALFLINGS ARE FISH PEOPLE! HALFLINGS ARE FISH PEOPLE!...wait...seriously?
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    HALFLINGS ARE FISH PEOPLE! HALFLINGS ARE FISH PEOPLE!...wait...seriously?
    Nope. Halflings are HALF fish people... LIKE MERMAIDS! HALFLINGS ARE MERFOLK!
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by inuyasha View Post
    HALFLINGS ARE FISH PEOPLE! HALFLINGS ARE FISH PEOPLE!...wait...seriously?
    Yup. Search Ling on dictionary.com and that's the result.

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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimsage Matt View Post
    Don't know about the stat bonus/penalties, but I have an idea for a Half-troll.

    Size: Medium or Large, depending on size of base creature
    Type: Giant
    Speed: As base creature

    Special Qualities:
    Darkvision (60ft)
    Rapid Metabolism as a bonus feat.

    Ability Modifiers:
    +2 Constitution
    -2 Intelligence
    -2 Charisma
    Skill Modifiers: None
    Level Adjustment: +0/+1?


    Giant type, a bit extra con, not as bright/look wierder then the base race, and you have improved healing abillities. Not fast healing or regeneration, but better. Maybe a racial feat that allows them to regenerate/reattach limbs?
    So, should this be LA+0 or LA+1?
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    I just thought of a half-elf fix. Instead of the problematic +1 Dex, Cha, -2 Con, have them get +2 Dex, Cha, -2 Con, Wis
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    Default Re: Help with Half-____ Templates

    There are other races that are hybrids as well as ones that are half human without the half other species in the name.

    Gnorfs (Half Gnome Half Dwarf) and Orogs (Half Orc Half Ogre) are the two non-human hybrids that come to mind, though I'm fairly sure there are others.

    Wemics (Not Half-Lions) and Centaurs (Not Half Horses, which is not twice as much horse as a Quarter Horse somehow) are the half-humans that don't have the word half in their name.

    I can't think of the names, but I am also sure their are other species that fit either or both of these... for example, I know there is a Elven Were species, but can't remember its name right now.

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