Paladin Rules

[big teej]

Salutations my fellow playgrounders!

on a whim, I decided to start rereading some of my favorite webcomics from the beginning, amongst them is Goblins.

the first comic of which is this
http://www.goblinscomic.org/06262005/

this, in conjunction with a few other things*

made me want to compile a handbook for each class, detailing rules they should follow.

Ideally I'd like to see this "handbook" reach 100 items. but first things first, we need to hit 38 (as 38 has already been provided by the author of goblins)

please note this should be an "in character" handbook, something a paladin could actually receive in game, as such, it should not contain ANY build and/or meta advice.



*those other things being 1) my 1001 bits of adventuring advice thread from waaaaaaaaaaaaay back. and 2) one of my players is modeling a character quirk off of NCIS special agent gibbs (i.e. rules)


EDIT:

I give you The Paladin's Handbook
or at least, what we've done so far that I've had the time to collect into this post.

*I'm willing to open this to discussion, would y'all like to see 'sub-points' made into their own rules? or can rules have 'sub-points' ??? (for an example, see rules 1 and 2)

Spoiler

Show

1. Don't be "lawful stupid"
- The world is not black and white; there are greater goods, lesser evils and shades of gray
- Evil does not need to be attacked on sight if patience may lead to defeating even a greater evil
- There are bad laws and evil people exploiting good laws
- Good always takes precedence over lawful

2. Use detect evil generously, but always discretely
- Agree on a secret signal or keyword with your teammates
- Make pausing in thought a mannerism that is common for you and not suspicious

3. Though you are but a mortal, never underestimate the value of your actions.

4. Your cause may be just and righteous, but never let arrogance dictate your actions.

5. There are many unlikely allies in the fight against evil; do not look into your companions histories too closely, lest you walk a lonely path.

6. Remember that just because it/he/she is evil doesn't present you with free pass to kill it. Murder is still murder even if the victim is a jerk.

7. Remember, while you gain points for killing evil things, you gain more for reforming them. You're an example to help lift people up, not smash them under your heel.

8. When camping outdoors, shake out your boots upside down before putting them on

9. Never go anywhere without a dagger.

10. Do not fear death. So long as you hold true to your morals, the mountains of Celestia wait for you, with a far less pleasant inevitability ahead of your enemies. However, do not throw your life away; you can do far more good in this world by living to fight another day than throwing your life away battling an enemy you cannot defeat.

11. Count to 10. Then count to 20

12. There is a Difference between giving your life in the defence of others or a cause greater than yourself, and throwing your life away in a fight you cannot win. "Throwing yourself into the Fires of Hell won't stop others from burning."

13. Be angry about something that doesn't affect you personally

14. Always have a ranged weapon or spell on hand. Even if it is your weakest attack, it is better than doing nothing.

15. Never fight an archer at range, a fighter up close, or let a caster finish a spell. Fight no one on their own terms.

16. No weapon is as powerful as knowledge of your foe.

17, Always have an escape plan.

18. Always interrogate prisoners separately and compare their stories afterwards

19. Always post sentries in pairs

20. Each day agree on a spot to meet up with your party if it splits up

21. If the enemy retreats, follow carefully it may be a trap.

22. If you must retreat, create a diversion.

23. In enemy territory take the most difficult path, it will be least guarded.

24. When traveling spread out the party so it can't be covered by a single area effect

25. Never attack when or where expected

26. If your enemy has the upper hand (or thinks he does) he will likely speak the truth

27. Allowing the torturing of prisoners is an abomination against your code. Letting a prisoner believe you'll look the other way is not.

28. If the enemy is down, do not trust his words

29. You are permitted to have fun.

30. You are permitted to make jokes.

31. You are permitted a drink or two at the tavern.

32. You are permitted some nooky.

33. You are permitted an equal share of all treasure hoards with the party. You decide what to do with it. You are permitted to spend some of it on yourself, such as improving weapon, armor, and helpful magic items.

34. Look for the good in others. You'll be surprised what you can learn from those that don't follow your path.

35. Going blackguard doesn't serve the Greater Good.

36. When choosing between lying to protect innocents and stabbing the (probably neutral) inquisitor in the face, lie. For the love of all that is good and holy, why would face-stabbing be the higher moral ground in this situation!?

37. If you need a Phylactery of Faithfulness, you are missing the point of being a paladin.

38. When the Minions of Evil start calling dibs on your gear, pray or run.

39. Bridle your passions and always keep a maintain a sense of decency and respect. You are a paladin at all times.

40. "I must examine the fine, rustic architecture" is not a valid excuse for allowing Evil to take place.

41. You are expected to fall. It's okay. One day or another you will find yourself in one of those impossible to win situations, where you fall no matter what - it's the way cruel universe works. After you fall, don't abandon your cause - you can still do good

42. You are trained to handle both social work and combat. Detect Evil is a tool to use in both situations, not an excuse to switch between them.

43. You will often work with nonpaladins. This is good. Don't try to limit the skills of that sneak or mage you work with because they aren't paladins. If you try, it will end badly for everyone. They have their skills for a reason, just as you do

44. Trust your party, they will save your bum more often than they engage in morally questionable behavior.

45. Feed your Iron Spikes to the Rust Monster. Not your armor.

46. Carry both Iron Rations and Iron Spikes

47. Don't be attached to your weapon or armor. If a better one comes along, use it.

48. Those who fear The Darkness have not seen what The Light can do... Illuminate them.

49. Don’t hurt people if you can avoid it.

50. Don’t steal stuff unless you’re starving or it’s really, really important.

51. Work hard. Pay your bills.

52. Try to help others.

53. Always double-check your math if there are explosives involved.

54. If you screwed it up, you need to see it gets fixed.

55. Don’t eat anything that talks.

56. If it doesn’t fall under one of those categories, just do the best you can.

57. You are not perfect. You are an imperfect being trying to be better than your base nature and serve as an example, inspiration, and aid to others who would follow. (coidzor if you don't want me to take creative license with your contribute let me know and I'll change it back.)

58. Striving for perfection does not make you perfect. Others may make wiser choices or plans than you, or even spot your mistakes. Be humble and thank them for it

59. Know the teachings of your deity and adhere to them.

60. Heroic charges are not always necessary

61. Beware Evil Gnomes with Ballista

62. Whenever possible, obtain and use the element of surprise

63. In the event you need to sneak about, take steps to quiet the noise your armor will make.

64. When it comes to doing The Right Thing, trust your instincts, when it comes to doing what's Sneaky, ignore your instincts.

65. Observe and Respect The Chain of Command, lest ye be beaten with it.

66. Remember, appearances can be deceiving, that adorable woodland critter could be a monster in disguise.

67. Do not save the One over the Many. You try to save the One and then you try to save the Many. If you accept that you have to choose one over the other, you have already failed

68. Even a weak man can push someone to the ground. But lifting someone up again... that requires real strength.

69. Plan your battles patiently. Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

70. The more blood and sweat on the training grounds, the less on the battlefield.

71. Remember, your deity chose you, not the other way around.

72. The paladin's code is a guardrail, not a prisoner's restraint. Your purpose as a paladin is to perform the greatest good.

73. Learn to trust yourself, your cause/deity (setting specific), and you will be a more effective paladin.

74. You are not pure enough to redeem a succubus with your intimacy.

75. Remember to take care of your gear. Rust won't help you make an impression, not does it help your armor shed a strike.

76. Don't eat beans or broccoli before training, otherwise you'll make a lot of enemies.

77. Carry a comb and a razor at all times. Wash your face each morning, and cleanse yourself in a river after every major battle. Remember, you are supposed to be a role model. Look like one.

78. You choose not to be a paladin once. To choose to be a paladin you have choose to be so every single moment.

79. Bring rope. It has many uses, and when you need one, but don't have it, you'll miss it dearly.

80. Like rope, a cape has many uses. But you may want to make it easy to detach in case someone tries to grab it in a fight or it gets stuck in a trap.

81. If people wish to celebrate your victories, you are allowed to take part in the celebrations. People like it when their heroes are approachable.

82. Remember to rest. Unless you are on an urgent quest, give your body and mind time to recover so you may face danger at your best when it comes. Evil does not hold back just because you are tired.

83. Being loud and theatrical does have its time, but remember to have a backup plan when the dragon isn't impressed by it.

84. Give a man a fish and he is fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he is fed for life. The same applies to doing good. Teach by example.

85. When you need to kill someone, be swift and efficient. Don't drag it out and cause undue pain and suffering.

86. pending

Contributers: Goblins Webcomic, Oglaf(can someone tell me if this is a person or a webcomic or something?), Bulhakov, SethoMarkus, hamlet, Lord Torath, Drelua, jaybird, Sun Tzu, navar100, Janus, Hyena, Winds, firedaemon33, Digger webcomic(?), Coidzor, Boutsofinsanity, Haley Starshine, Aux-Ash, The Fury, Winds, Totally Guy, McNum

inspired by the Goblins: Life Through Their Eyes webcomic.

IF YOU SEE SOMETHING YOU CONTRIBUTED ON THE LIST BUT NOT ON THE LIST OF CONTRIBUTERS LET ME KNOW, I'M HUMAN, I'LL SCREW UP EVENTUALLY

[Coidzor]

The way of the Paladin:
To Learn
To Seek
To Do

Best in-world written code I've seen to date.

[big teej]

Best in-world written code I've seen to date.

not quite what I meant...

to clarify, #38 is "when the bad guys start calling dibs on your gear, pray or run."

[Bulhakov]

You mean things like:

1. Don't be "lawful stupid"
- The world is not black and white; there are greater goods, lesser evils and shades of gray
- Evil does not need to be attacked on sight if patience may lead to defeating even a greater evil
- There are bad laws and evil people exploiting good laws
- Good always takes precedence over lawful

2. Use detect evil generously, but always discretely
- Agree on a secret signal or keyword with your teammates
- Make pausing in thought a mannerism that is common for you and not suspicious

?

[SethoMarkus]

Are you looking for something more along the line of these?

The Paladin's Companion:

#3 Though you are but a mortal, never underestimate the value of your actions.

#4 Your cause may be just and righteous, but never let arrogance dictate your actions.

#5 There are many unlikely allies in the fight against evil; do not look into your companions histories too closely, lest you walk a lonely path.

Edit: Ninja'd - updated the numbers

[hamlet]

#6 - Remember that just because it/he/she is evil doesn't present you with free pass to kill it. Murder is still murder even if the victim is a jerk.

#7 - Remember, while you gain points for killing evil things, you gain more for reforming them. You're an example to help lift people up, not smash them under your heel.

[geeky_monkey]

#8 Various monsters are vunerable to bludgeoning damage - consider removing the rod from your a** and use that to attack them instead.

[Seharvepernfan]

#8 Various monsters are vunerable to bludgeoning damage - consider removing the rod from your a** and use that to attack them instead.

I'm sure that, by now, it has enough good to bypass DR/evil...

[Lord Torath]

please note this should be an "in character" handbook, something a paladin could actually receive in game, as such, it should not contain ANY build and/or meta advice.

Not sure geeky_monkey's "8" meets this. Good advice for the player, though.

How about:
#8: When camping outdoors, shake out your boots upside down before putting them on.

[Hyena]

9. Your allies will spit on your code and act in the most disrespectful way possible to your mission. You are not to react, or you will be left behind.

[Drelua]

Wow, I just reread Goblins a few days ago. If you watch NCIS, I think you'll agree that this one has to stay. Well, in a slightly different form at least.

#9 - Never go anywhere without a dagger.

Now, let me see if I can turn a speech I had in mind when I was considering playing a Paladin into a rule.

#10 - Do not fear death. So long as you hold true to your morals, the mountains of Celestia wait for you, with a far less pleasant inevitability ahead of your enemies. However, do not throw your life away; you can do far more good in this world by living to fight another day than throwing your life away battling an enemy you cannot defeat.

You should be editing these into the OP so we know how far along we are.

Edit: Ninja'd on #9, but... I'm not sure that counts. A paladin should be able to say something when his morals are being insulted, just as any other character would, so long as he treats them as equals rather than errant children.

[jaybird]

11: Count to 10. Then count to 20.

[big teej]

Are you looking for something more along the line of these?

The Paladin's Companion:

#3 Though you are but a mortal, never underestimate the value of your actions.

#4 Your cause may be just and righteous, but never let arrogance dictate your actions.

#5 There are many unlikely allies in the fight against evil; do not look into your companions histories too closely, lest you walk a lonely path.

Edit: Ninja'd - updated the numbers

precisely

You should be editing these into the OP so we know how far along we are.

I'll try and update the OP with the current list every day or so.

as it stands, I have one.

#+1. Throwing yourself into the Fires of Hell won't stop others from burning. (credit to goblins for this one as well)

[some guy]

As we began with comics, here's one from Oglaf:
13: Be angry about something that doesn't affect you personally.

[Bulhakov]

I think a lot of the above fall under rule #1

The below could be applied to any melee class (a lot paraphrased from San Tzu):

13 Always have a ranged weapon or spell on hand. Even if it is your weakest attack, it is better than doing nothing.

14 Never fight an archer at range, a fighter up close, or let a caster finish a spell. Fight no one on their own terms.

15 No weapon is as powerful as knowledge of your foe.

16 Always have an escape plan.

17 Always interrogate prisoners separately and compare their stories afterwards

18 Always post sentries in pairs

19 Each day agree on a spot to meet up with your party if it splits up

20 If the enemy retreats, follow carefully it may be a trap.

21 If you must retreat, create a diversion.

22 In enemy territory take the most difficult path, it will be least guarded.

23 When traveling spread out the party so it can't be covered by a single area effect

24 Never attack when or where expected

25 If your enemy has the upper hand (or thinks he does) he will likely speak the truth

26 If the enemy is down, do not trust his words

[navar100]

9. Your allies will spit on your code and act in the most disrespectful way possible to your mission. You are not to react, or you will be left behind.

With "allies" like that, I'd call this a bonus.

27. You are permitted to have fun.

28. You are permitted to make jokes.

29. You are permitted a drink or two at the tavern.

30. You are permitted some nooky.

31. You are permitted an equal share of all treasure hoards with the party. You decide what to do with it. You are permitted to spend some of it on yourself, such as improving weapon, armor, and helpful magic items.

[Janus]

32. Look for the good in others. You'll be surprised what you can learn from those that don't follow your path.

33. Going blackguard doesn't serve the Greater Good.

34. When choosing between lying to protect innocents and stabbing the (probably neutral) inquisitor in the face, lie. For the love of all that is good and holy, why would face-stabbing be the higher moral ground in this situation!?

35. If you need a Phylactery of Faithfulness, you are missing the point of being a paladin.

36. Bridle your passions and always keep a maintain a sense of decency and respect. You are a paladin at all times.

37. "I must examine the fine, rustic architecture" is not a valid excuse for allowing Evil to take place.

[Hyena]

38. You are expected to fall. It's okay. One day or another you will find yourself in one of those impossible to win situations, where you fall no matter what - it's the way cruel universe works. After you fall, don't abandon your cause - you can still do good, even if you are even worse then the fighter now.

[Winds]

39) You are trained to handle both social work and combat. Detect Evil is a tool to use in both situations, not an excuse to switch between them.

40) You will often work with nonpaladins. This is good. Don't try to limit the skills of that sneak or mage you work with because they aren't paladins. If you try, it will end badly for everyone. They have their skills for a reason, just as you do.

[Ionbound]

41: Trust your party, they will save your bum more often than they engage in morally questionable behavior.

[navar100]

38. You are expected to fall. It's okay. One day or another you will find yourself in one of those impossible to win situations, where you fall no matter what - it's the way cruel universe works. After you fall, don't abandon your cause - you can still do good, even if you are even worse then the fighter now.

No. Nothing whatsoever about being a paladin means you will fall.

[TuggyNE]

35. If you need a Phylactery of Faithfulness, you are missing the point of being a paladin.

Maybe. Maybe not, though.

[Hyena]

Nothing whatsoever about being a paladin means you will fall.

Of course, it does. You're a guy in the world of shades of grey stuck with black and white code, creators of which either had no idea what in how many ways it could possibly go wrong, or were malevolent.

[Janus]

Of course, it does. You're a guy in the world of shades of grey stuck with black and white code, creators of which either had no idea what in how many ways it could possibly go wrong, or were malevolent.

I make it a point to avoid campaigns with that particular line of thought.

[Scow2]

Of course, it does. You're a guy in the world of shades of grey stuck with black and white code, creators of which either had no idea what in how many ways it could possibly go wrong, or were malevolent.

There is no such thing as Grey. Only blends of black and white. The creators knew damn well what they were getting into. Most people are white with a bit of black on them. The paladin's job is to purge the world of that which blackens, not merely greys, it. Terry Prachett's Discworld has a number of quotes on the issue, a lot by Granny Weatherwax. There are also a lot of interesting outlooks for properly playing a Paladin from /tg/.

Being a paladin is not for everyone. There are those who understand how they work, and those who don't. You seem to be of the latter.

[Hyena]

There is no such thing as Grey.

Suuuure there is not. It's not like we've got three aligments that would be specifically reserved for such a thing. Neutr-something.
I never said that paladin should purge everyone that is not ideally white. I say that when paladin is in situation, that is not entirely black and white, he has no idea what to do and is pretty much doomed, because he not only must be lawful good, but absolutely sinless. Not a single mistake allowed.
Classic setup - the paladin encounters a demon. Not just a demon - but the demon, who rejected his nature and tried his best to defy his urge to do evil - in fact, he've been so succesfull in this, he actually became neutral rather then evil. Paladin can not kill a person, that is not only not evil, but actually tries to be good, because that would be cold blooded murder of an innocent creature. But it's evil to allow this innocent creature to exist. Why? Because he's a fiend, a creature who is literally made of evil. It's says so right there in the Book of Exalted Deeds - it's bad to allow fiends to exist. What you're gonna do now, paladin? You're damned if you kill him, damned if you don't.

[Coidzor]

There is no such thing as Grey. Only blends of black and white. The creators knew damn well what they were getting into. Most people are white with a bit of black on them. The paladin's job is to purge the world of that which blackens, not merely greys, it. Terry Prachett's Discworld has a number of quotes on the issue, a lot by Granny Weatherwax. There are also a lot of interesting outlooks for properly playing a Paladin from /tg/.

Being a paladin is not for everyone. There are those who understand how they work, and those who don't. You seem to be of the latter.

...They might have known they were creating a roleplaying game with paladins, sure, but we've got ample evidence that they did not think things through in many of the flawed systems where we run into issues with paladins and their execution.

Case in point, that the games aren't straightforward enough that this guide is unnecessary from a tactical standpoint or put together enough that it's unnecessary as guide points to roleplay.

I make it a point to avoid campaigns with that particular line of thought.

You avoid tables that realize the designers aren't perfect?

I'd prefer to acknowledge the flaws of a system and either accept them or develop a workaround rather than not realize that the flaws are there and then get tripped up by them, personally.

[Janus]

What you're gonna do now, paladin?

Not be a paladin where a splatbook is considered doctrine.

You avoid tables that realize the designers aren't perfect?

I was referring to the "paladins should expect to fall" style.

[Emmerask]

You mean things like:

1. Don't be "lawful stupid"
- The world is not black and white; there are greater goods, lesser evils and shades of gray
- Evil does not need to be attacked on sight if patience may lead to defeating even a greater evil
- There are bad laws and evil people exploiting good laws
- Good always takes precedence over lawful

2. Use detect evil generously, but always discretely

The problem is that the first makes the latter rather useless since if you dont take good and evil as absolute states someone who is just a tiny bit evil would still ping as evil as an evil mastermind.
Since the power of the aura is only dependent on the hd and not how evil someone is this tool becomes rather unreliable.

[Coidzor]

The problem is that the first makes the latter rather useless since if you dont take good and evil as absolute states someone who is just a tiny bit evil would still ping as evil as an evil mastermind.
Since the power of the aura is only dependent on the hd and not how evil someone is this tool becomes rather unreliable.

Depends on how you rule the evil that lurks in the heart of man, really. Some DMs have "tiny bit evil but still detects as evil" be a thing and others have it as neutral with evil tendencies and others just say no to the entire concept, so that good and evil both are something that deserves the term rather than happenstance.

Which is part of the problem, too much is ephemeral and dependent upon whoever is playing adjudicator.