So, How does an epic level lich affect some level 1 player characters?

[Shinizak]

Hey y'all. Whats going on?

I'm gonna be running a game pretty soon Which takes place heavily in Grey Hawk (with a little Elder Scrolls and personal homebrew lore thrown in). The game is going to center heavily on a struggle between Vecna, Orcus, and a Solar named Vigilum. What are they struggling over? Divinity, that's what. All 3 have found a method to ascend to godhood that is in short supply. The players aren't going to be stopping them at first, instead most of the adventures are going to be about trying to survive Orcus's, and Vecna's shenanigans. My question is what kind of adventures could the players have at level 1-5 that adequitly show's Vecna's and Orcus's involvement while still making the players actions important in the world?

I have:

A LG paladin of a dragon god (heavily based off Bahamut) who's goal is to become the new king and start a rule with righteousness and dignity for all.

A CN thief who has a map to a secret wizard's panic room which she found in her books of dashing adventure stories.

A LG Cleric of the harvest who is on a never ending quest to spread the knowledge of his goddess.

And a CG Fighter who saw some messed up things in the army and is now trying to find a place for himself in the world.

[Arbane]

My question is what kind of adventures could the players have at level 1-5 that adequitly show's Vecna's and Orcus's involvement while still making the players actions important in the world?

They arrive in a city to find that EVERYONE'S DEAD. Every corpse that wasn't too badly mangled has been reanimated and marched out of the city.

[Flickerdart]

Level 1 characters have no ability to affect the doings of demigods and demon princes. The best they can do is go to the last place that's been destroyed in the conflict, in the hopes that it won't be hit a second time, and try to see if they can scrape together enough bits to make a single corpse to bury.

[ericgrau]

Lol they can't go against the lich directly but they can always go after servants of servants of servants. And yes, it is exactly 3 degrees of separation. There are legendary figures in the world who work for the lich. You probably want to name all of them and make a brief description at some point. Each of those are in charge of various people scattered in different villages leading things. You probably only want to make a description for the ones near the players, and in a few levels stat out a boss for the players to fight, while mentioning him in the plot in the mean time. And under those leaders are basic troops which are a suitable challenge for the players right now.

[Ezberron]

Well, clearly it sounds like the main antagonists are epic level threats.

low levels will be more along the lines of foreshadowing and gathering intel as well as establishing solid reasons why the players would even consider facing off against such powers.

Personally, I'd have one (or more) of the players affected by the actions of one of the groups- hometown destroyed by vecna or orcus as part of their schemes to further their own agenda or thwarting one of the others.

Depending on what level you want the players to actually be involved in the story, you can lay down a lot of foreshadowing at low levels. You're essentially setting the stage of the conflict. It's ACT I of your story.

So, yeah, you'd need to show exactly what they can do as well as establish reasons why the players won't run for the hills and stay the hell out of it.

You could also put them square in the middle of the conflict by having them finding a small but important piece of said divinity ritual. they can't use it. but of course, all three powers want it.

I'd make the solar just as unpleasant as both vecna and orcus just to keep it from being an easy choice- otherwise it's a no-brainer, if only because vecna and orcus will totally betray you....

[Mr Beer]

Yeah, obviously any direct action is going to be against minions and not the main minions either. But they can be intercepting couriers, rooting out traitors, destroying minor outposts/evil temples hidden underneath the good cities...that kind of thing. Maybe spying in evil lands? The Bandit Kingdoms is the kind of low-grade evil setting that lots of powers could plausibly have agents in. Good characters could move around there with a bit of caution but it would be vaguely hostile all the time.

[SuperPanda]

They arrive in a city to find that EVERYONE'S DEAD. Every corpse that wasn't too badly mangled has been reanimated and marched out of the city.

After this the players find on of the Big Bad's battle groups approaching a small town. The town isn't ver important, and neither is the the force sent to wipe them out and raise them, so the PCs are able to defend a town or two in this way.

The town they save has some way of communicating to the Paladin's and Cleric's orders.

Adventure 2: The town recieves reinforcements but they don't know if they'll be enough (the evil forces have gotten word of the resitance and are returning with avengence). The people of the town ask the PCs to escrot the children somewhere safe (say, the panic room of a wizard).

Adventure 3: Besieged in a wizard's fortress, the PCs must utilize the magical defenses of the Wizard's keep against the evil army and risk the wrath of the wizard whose territory they've trespassed on. The Wizard is perhaps a lesser Lt. of one of the more desireable forces (though they won't know this). After defending the wizard's keep they go (with new toys) to assist the towns in the area, and create a safe region the wizard will now stay to protect.

The are now heroes and champions of good capable of being a direct threat to the Lt.s of the enemy forces.

[PersonMan]

I wouldn't even have them be part of the conflict until mid levels.

Early on, they wouldn't be dealing with the actual battles of the almost-gods (they might not even be aware of them until later), but the fallout.

Protecting a band of survivors as they travel from their razed village to a city.

Hunting down bandits who are harrying a hamlet now that the king's men aren't around to stop them.

Investigating rumors of the river being poisoned.

Going into the forest to speak to the mysterious 'Speaker of the Wilds' about why there have been more bear and wolf attacks recently.

---

I'd set it up that, in the beginning, nobody knows what's happening. As the PCs gain levels, rumors spread about a battle between gods, which slowly morphs into the truth of the matter: a three-way fight between semi-deities.

This way, the PCs end up being in the role of a mobile group who helps deal with the fallout of the conflict, growing into a more influential role and, due to their past heroic actions, being one of the first their organizations turn to with the information of what's really going on when they have it.

[KillianHawkeye]

Lol they can't go against the lich directly but they can always go after servants of servants of servants. And yes, it is exactly 3 degrees of separation. There are legendary figures in the world who work for the lich. You probably want to name all of them and make a brief description at some point. Each of those are in charge of various people scattered in different villages leading things. You probably only want to make a description for the ones near the players, and in a few levels stat out a boss for the players to fight, while mentioning him in the plot in the mean time. And under those leaders are basic troops which are a suitable challenge for the players right now.

I wouldn't even have them be part of the conflict until mid levels.

Early on, they wouldn't be dealing with the actual battles of the almost-gods (they might not even be aware of them until later), but the fallout.

Protecting a band of survivors as they travel from their razed village to a city.

Hunting down bandits who are harrying a hamlet now that the king's men aren't around to stop them.

Investigating rumors of the river being poisoned.

Going into the forest to speak to the mysterious 'Speaker of the Wilds' about why there have been more bear and wolf attacks recently.

Yeah the great thing about demons and evil gods is they always have cultists!

Most of the time, low-level cultists aren't even important to their master's plans, but they still cause a lot of trouble for the people around them. If these Epic villains are gaining a lot of power recently, then their cultists could be growing bolder and making bigger plans, attacking towns or kidnapping a lot of people or summoning fiends or whatever. There's going to be a lot of side effects like other bad guys taking advantage of the situation, too. Plenty of things going wrong for low-level heroes to help out with even before they get into opposing the cultists directly.

[Pokonic]

Simple. Have a mid to low level intelligent undead creature with mild ambition who serves the lich, like a Vampire rogue or such, fight or get involved with the PC's. Mr. Mcvampy could be a recurring antagonist of sorts until the PC's get powerful enough to take him down in a fight, at which point he get's concerned for his continued existence and tries to bargin his way out. Such a way, for example, could be a map of one of his bosses less used lairs, which would be guarded only by weaker undead but would still have importance to the lich proper.

Of course, the PC's would be in there around the time he decides to give his old summer house a check-up.

[Mutazoia]

Honestly, when I read the thread title my first thought was:
"That's easy...like this *squish*."

But as your looking for a way to get a campaign started...what you propose is not all that different from any campaign. Start them out small...maybe their home town is in the path of destruction and, although the PC's survive, most of the town doesn't. With all their homes destroyed and crops withered, the PC's must help lead the survivors in search of a new place to settle down. The surviving villagers become part of a long train of refugees heading to some major city and the PC's start off fending off bandits and such. As they reach the city the news of the Lich War reaches the PC's. They learn that they can make some money (to help rebuild the village elsewhere) by doing "odd jobs" for a local crime boss (who happens to be sub-contracting "odd jobs" for one of the prime players in the War.) As they continue to run around gathering bits and bobs for their employer's employer they become stronger and thus more able to affect the outcome of the war. Soon they get strong enough that attract the attention of the Big Three who try to recruit them... they can choose sides and help one....or play all three against each other in an attempt to gain Divinity themselves....

[Kami2awa]

Tbh, the lich should be so distant from the PCs with that level disparity that he's effectively a god, and he's in very much the same role. He won't be be interacting with the PCs except on the level of divine (diabolical) intervention. The PCs however are likely to encounter his cults, his minions, and so on. If anything, he might find it fun to "play" with the PCs a little, perhaps rather like Q from Star Trek (which gives them a good reason to hate him and is likely to eventually backfire when the PCs get more powerful).

If you can, look at how Iuz is treated in the early D&D modules. He's a powerful demon lord who is the power behind most of the bad guys (including other powerful demons) who only turns up in person if the PCs do something really wrong; however, hints as to his involvement turn up wherever evil is found in symbols, letters, artifacts and so on. In effect, he's Satan; all the bad guys are ultimately working for him (even if they don't know it).

[Mutazoia]

BTW you may want to look at the old 3rd party suppliment/adventure "Lich Lords"