A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 125
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    This competition is closed, here were the final results:

    {table=head]Place|Competitor|Name|Build|Score

    1st|Humble Master|He Who Has No Name|Rogue 3/Psion 17|16.5

    2nd|T.G. Oskar|Talia Ruarruil|Binder 11/Zhentarim Spy 4/Scion of Dantalion 5|16

    3rd|Kuulvheysoon|Tam|Rogue 3/Urban Ranger 11/Cabinet Trickster 3/Shadowbane Stalker 3|15

    3rd|Jeff the Green|Delda Visage|Factotum 8/Psion 1/Slayer 9/Zhentarim Spy 2|15

    5th|Forrestfire|Face of Madness|Rogue 5/Spymaster 7/Warshaper Spy 1/Cabinet Trickster 5/Trapsmith 2|14

    6th|Svata|The Burglar in Disguise|Psychic Rogue 14/Shadowmind 1/Spymaster 5|13

    [/table]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Welcome one and all to the fifteenth Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds, summoning a savory dish of superb swordplay and sublime sorcery.

    The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

    For the fifteenth challenge put on your best disguise, from the Epic Level Handbook, it's the Epic Infiltrator! Note: This class is also available online at d20srd.org.

    Our challengers will have about 2 weeks to build a complete build up to level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WOTC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of an Epic Infiltrator without actually using any levels in it.

    Entries must be submitted by Saturday, 11:59pm GMT, 6 July, 2013 Sunday, 11:59pm GMT, 7 July, 2013. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman, so as not to influence the other sauciers.

    Judges will then have until Saturday, 11:59pm GMT, 20 July, 2013, to post scores for all dishes.

    Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 4 categories;

    * Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
    * Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
    * Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
    * Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

    Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

    Recommended style:
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Copy and Paste:
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]


    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage). For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list, similar to this:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Copy and Paste:
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]


    Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

    Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges.

    Previous challenges;
    1. Soulknife
    2. Bard
    3. Monk
    4. Assassin
    5. Barbarian
    6. Warlock
    7. Paladin
    8. Warblade
    9. Pyrokineticist
    10. Ninja
    11. Druid
    12. True Necromancer
    13. Dervish
    14. Whisperknife


    This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

    Also it comes with double prize money.

    Allez Sauciers!
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2013-09-05 at 08:18 AM.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    A few administrative notes:

    Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while I am chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    A thread for your amusement/edification:

    Handy Tips for the Iron Chef in the Playground Noob

    Level adjustment buy-off (from Unearthed Arcana) is expressly permitted in this particular competion, because you are granted a set experience point total of 209,999 to use. What you do with it is up to you.

    A Special Note for this particular competion: This ingredient is from the Epic Level Handbook. This competition only allows a build up to level 20. Judges should not require epic level pre-requisites in their judging, however, I know the playground. You can do this. Go forth and be a better Epic Infiltrator at level 20 than a Class X 21 / Epic Infiltrator 10.
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2013-06-24 at 01:57 AM.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dysprosium's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    the periodic table
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Wow an epic prestige class.

    I will definitely take a stab at this one.

    Really I can't help it. I love these competitions too much.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    I've got a hilariously bad idea for this.

    Let's try to put in more than two hours' work into it this time, though, eh?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amidus Drexel's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Algol System
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Heh, I'm tempted to jump in on this one... I see a way to grab each of the class features, I think, but... how to get them all in the same build?

    Count me in as a definite maybe.
    Avatar by FinnLassie
    A few odds and ends.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Honestly I've been thinking of doing an epic class since I judged Iron Chef last round and saw a Dispassionate Watcher of Chronepsis. That class could be started within Iron Chef but not completed.

    So why not grab a prestige class completely out of the reach of Iron Chef, yet has features that are probably accessible via multiple means by level 20? Yeah, let's do that.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    This one's gonna be tough to emulate in a unique way. I'll think about it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    This one's gonna be tough to emulate in a unique way. I'll think about it.
    Tell me about it. [REDACTED] is an obvious answer, of course, and a [REDACTED] is just perfect for the fluff and supporting [REDACTED].

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    Tell me about it. [REDACTED] is an obvious answer, of course, and a [REDACTED] is just perfect for the fluff and supporting [REDACTED].
    If there's anything I know about 3.5, if there is an obvious way of doing something, there are 2-4 other ways of doing the same. Just don't all double-bluff yourselves into all doing the same one.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Yeah, I hit myself with an idea once I read the class features. I hope no one does the same.
    Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
    GitP Regulars as: Vestiges Spells Weapons Races Deities Feats Soulmelds/Veils
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    If there's anything I know about 3.5, if there is an obvious way of doing something, there are 2-4 other ways of doing the same. Just don't all double-bluff yourselves into all doing the same one.
    Nope. Gonna Vizzini the Hell out of it.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Forrestfire's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    I see ways for all but one of the class features. Interesting.
    Lolth is so scary that even in TO, "having to be touched by Lolth" is recognized as a serious drawback for Lolth-touched.
    Ongoing Playtests:      The Avowed
    Handbooks:    Disregard Money, Acquire Buff Spells: Artificers without the Artifice E6 Plot Magic

    Avatar by Djinn in Tonic

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Svata's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Never done this sort of thing before (heck, I've only been playing for a few months), but I think I have an idea. Probably rather obvious, but it should at least work. Alright, let's give this a try!!
    Copy this to your signature if you love Jade_Tarem, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    A 20th-level fighter should be able to break rainbows in half with their bare hands and then dual-wield the parts of the rainbow.

    Dual-wield the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Earth

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    God this one is fairly easy.

    Like really easy.

    EDIT: I'll be a judge.

    My judging criteria.

    Power: The ability of the build to deliver and solve challenges.
    1: Build would have a difficult time against a CR -2 challenge on its own and in a party it would likely be close to dead weight for most such challenges. Think Tier 5-6.
    2: Build could contribute to an equal CR challenge within its area of expertise but it needs a party to really stand a chance in such an encounter.
    Think Tier 4 (maybe real low Tier 3).
    3: Build could carry its own weight in the party and make a decent contribution to most CR appropriate challenges. This is the "average" power level and should be judged in comparison with the ingredients (so something that uses Cipher Adept as its secret ingredient should not be judged the same as something that uses Incantatrix, for example). In other words, this is the power level generally expected from the ingredients and it hasn't been improved but it also hasn't been weakened.
    Think high Tier 4 to moderate Tier 3.
    4: Build can generally be expected to solo an equal CR challenge, has the versatility to not be shut down by one or two fairly common enemy abilities, build would be accepted without real complaint into a moderately high op game.
    Think solid Tier 3.
    5: Build is decently high end PO and/or TO and is generally capable of soloing a wide variety of CR appropriate challenges, has enough abilities and tricks to make totally shutting it down pretty much only possible by purpose built opponents, would be considered a powerful component of a moderately high op game.
    Think high end Tier 3 or better.

    Elegance:
    0: Build does not work by at least RAI.
    1: Build is at least RAI legal.
    2. Build is at least RAW legal.
    3. Build uses most features on the sheet and doesn't appear to have extraneous bits and pieces just hanging around.
    4. It is obvious why each part of the build (classes, PrC's, feats, etc.) is in the build and what its contribution to the whole is. Synergies between abilities from different classes, feats, and items are created and/or taken advantage of to improve the build.
    5. The build just flows together seamlessly and creates a synergistic whole out of the component parts that can not be topped easily, if at all. (Basically, the judge can't look at the build and say "Why not replace X with Y, doing so would make this a lot better?"; that would get you a 4 and not a 5).

    Innovation:
    0. You copied another persons build whole cloth.
    1. You made only minor tweaks to a preexisting build.
    2. You pretty much put the build together yourself but its mostly stuff that has been seen before.
    3. Your build has at least some unique flair that the judges haven't seen before, it might be a combination of a few different known builds or tricks.
    4. Your build is mostly original (or at least mostly new to the judges), it might not have any killer new trick or the like but its definitely new work.
    5. You are breaking out things never before seen. This is for new tricks, new cheese, and new capabilities. Said tricks need not be generally applicable.

    Ingredient:
    0. You made a straight fighter when you were supposed to make something that does what an Incantatrix does.
    1. At least you used a caster this time but you barred Abjuration.
    2. Well you didn't bar Abjuration but you also didn't include an meta or the like.
    3. Meta included but minimal meta reducers and/or not replicating the rest of the abilities.
    4. You covered most things but might have missed one or two.
    5. You managed to pretty much totally replace the ingredient virtually seamlessly.
    Last edited by Emperor Tippy; 2013-06-23 at 03:00 AM.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Well this should be fun. Ya'll better step up your game if you want to score high.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2013

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Hmm. I might be interested in giving this a shot, actually.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    One question for the group. With Tippy as a judge there may be certain ... tricks necessary in order to get the expected level of power. I see two options on how to handle this.

    One is that "XP is a river" and that you will get to level 20 eventually. This provides a little more flexibility to everyone, but doesn't reward efficiency.

    Option two is to assign a set number of XP to the competition, say, 209,999, which is one shy of going into level 21. This provides a small cushion of XP for whatever tricks you might want to pull, but means that if you go over that cushion there might be a level 19 build in there.

    Is there any preference among the potential competitors?
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Oh god, not Tippy.

    Well, expect my Elegance to drop to 0. I don't even do this crazy OP.
    Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
    GitP Regulars as: Vestiges Spells Weapons Races Deities Feats Soulmelds/Veils
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Forrestfire's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Looks like I need to make two builds, one with much more thought put into it
    Lolth is so scary that even in TO, "having to be touched by Lolth" is recognized as a serious drawback for Lolth-touched.
    Ongoing Playtests:      The Avowed
    Handbooks:    Disregard Money, Acquire Buff Spells: Artificers without the Artifice E6 Plot Magic

    Avatar by Djinn in Tonic

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Beholder

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    I shall give this a stab. I notice we have a lot of competitors and only one judge though.

    Edit: Will we need to emulate the abilities of only the class itself or also the prerequisites?
    Last edited by Humble Master; 2013-06-23 at 09:37 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amidus Drexel's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    The Algol System
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    Is there any preference among the potential competitors?
    I've personally got no preference... I'm not sure yet what I'll do with the extra exp, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    Oh god, not Tippy.

    Well, expect my Elegance to drop to 0. I don't even do this crazy OP.
    Yeah, elegance and power are looking pretty low for me right now... I think I can get at least a 2 in each, though.
    Avatar by FinnLassie
    A few odds and ends.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Jeff the Green's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The Great PNW
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    One question for the group. With Tippy as a judge there may be certain ... tricks necessary in order to get the expected level of power. I see two options on how to handle this.

    One is that "XP is a river" and that you will get to level 20 eventually. This provides a little more flexibility to everyone, but doesn't reward efficiency.

    Option two is to assign a set number of XP to the competition, say, 209,999, which is one shy of going into level 21. This provides a small cushion of XP for whatever tricks you might want to pull, but means that if you go over that cushion there might be a level 19 build in there.

    Is there any preference among the potential competitors?
    Hmmm. If we go with option two, would that mean LA buyoff would be allowed? That could be nice.

    I probably vote for option two.

    Edit:
    Also, it's really sad that I think I can do this with 18 levels in a base class and 2 in a prestige. And be more effective, too.
    Last edited by Jeff the Green; 2013-06-23 at 10:32 AM.
    Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.
    Ask me (or the other authors) anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Well, of course I'm paranoid about everything. Hell, with Jeff as DM, I'd be paranoid even if we were playing a game set in The Magic Kiddie Funland of Perfectly Flat Planes and Sugar Plums.
    Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Hmmm. If we go with option two, would that mean LA buyoff would be allowed? That could be nice.

    I probably vote for option two.

    Edit:
    Also, it's really sad that I think I can do this with 18 levels in a base class and 2 in a prestige. And be more effective, too.
    Option two would permit LA buy off, yes.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Svata's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gainesville, GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Yeah, I'm voting for option 2. The LA buyoff just gave me an idea.
    Copy this to your signature if you love Jade_Tarem, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Extra Anchovies View Post
    A 20th-level fighter should be able to break rainbows in half with their bare hands and then dual-wield the parts of the rainbow.

    Dual-wield the rainbow. Taste the rainbow.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Snowbluff's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Option 2 is just better.
    Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
    GitP Regulars as: Vestiges Spells Weapons Races Deities Feats Soulmelds/Veils
    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Humble Master View Post
    Edit: Will we need to emulate the abilities of only the class itself or also the prerequisites?
    All I will say on this is "Do Your Best "
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2013-06-23 at 10:49 AM.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Land of Cleves
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    You'd have a hard time emulating all of the prerequisites, given that the Secret Ingredient is epic.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
    As You Like It, III:ii:328

    Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
    Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    mattie_p's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    <<Undetected>>
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    You'd have a hard time emulating all of the prerequisites, given that the Secret Ingredient is epic.
    There's at least two methods that come to mind of doing that, but they aren't original tricks.
    Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)

    Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.

    Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    So now you're claiming that spellcasting "lacks a clear, supernatural element?" Being supernatural is literally the only point of magic.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Forrestfire's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    On another note, for making tables, might I suggest using BBer?

    It's a page that converts copied formatted text into BBcode for you.

    {table=head] This | table | was
    made | in | Word [/table]
    Lolth is so scary that even in TO, "having to be touched by Lolth" is recognized as a serious drawback for Lolth-touched.
    Ongoing Playtests:      The Avowed
    Handbooks:    Disregard Money, Acquire Buff Spells: Artificers without the Artifice E6 Plot Magic

    Avatar by Djinn in Tonic

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Emperor Tippy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Earth

    Default Re: Zinc Saucier XV: An epic struggle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    Edit:
    Also, it's really sad that I think I can do this with 18 levels in a base class and 2 in a prestige. And be more effective, too.
    Yeah one reason I decided to judge this was that I could think of about half a dozen ways to do this. One of which is honestly Factotum 19/Exemplar 1 and using magic items to get you Far Sense, Ready Thoughts, and Mindblank. That pretty much does it all.

    And that is my "straight 3 score" build that I am judging against for this. That is your benchmark, worse than that in any given category and you are getting a 2 or worse for that category, better and you are getting a 4 or 5 for that category.
    People who think Tippy equals win.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Clearly, this is because Tippy equals Win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunken Valley View Post
    Tippy=Win
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Wow... Tippy, you equal win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immabozo View Post
    Tippy, I knew, in the back of my mind, that you would have the answer. Why? Cause you win. That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithril Leaf View Post
    Alright. I finally surrender. Tippy, you do in fact equal win. You have claimed the position of being my idol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone who shall remain anonymous
    This post contains 100% Tippy thought. May contain dangerous amounts of ludicrousness and/or awesomeness.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •