Majhaarat: The last remnants of a god

[saxavarius]

My first attempt at a homebrew race For 3.5:

A Majhaarat is the last remnant of a god that was killed and has taken refuge on the material plane. Vengence against those that killed him is the only thing that allows a majhaarat to take a physical form.

Racial Traits:
Bonus Feat at 1st level
+1 skill point per level
minor shapechange
Charisma to HP instead of constitution
negative energy heals hp

As this is my first attempt I would request help balancing this to be a no LA race for a gestalt campaign; if there is already anything like this I truly didn't know. Thanks for any and all feed back

[Lateral]

...So it's a human, but way better. With charisma to HP, no way is this LA +0. You're going to have to cut some of those abilities. (Drop the bonus feat, and it should be fine, I think.)

[AuraTwilight]

This race sounds like it should be Undead, too.

[EdroGrimshell]

...So it's a human, but way better. With charisma to HP, no way is this LA +0. You're going to have to cut some of those abilities. (Drop the bonus feat, and it should be fine, I think.)

Instead of Con, people put too much emphasis on Mental Stats improving physical traits because of spellcasters. You don't balance the races based on the classes people, you balance them based on other races.

It's just like Con Poisons being less effective than equally potent poisons simply because Con is able to kill directly rather than indirectly. It's an ability score just like any other, why put all the fuss behind it?

However, I think you should either bump the LA up by 1 (this is about an LA +1/2, but there's no such thing so I'd round up here), or take off the bonus skills or feat.

[AuraTwilight]

Instead of Con, people put too much emphasis on Mental Stats improving physical traits because of spellcasters. You don't balance the races based on the classes people, you balance them based on other races.

It's just like Con Poisons being less effective than equally potent poisons simply because Con is able to kill directly rather than indirectly. It's an ability score just like any other, why put all the fuss behind it?

Spellcasting aside, Giving HP bonuses is basically literally all Constitution even DOES, besides Fortitude saves and all of one skill no one gives a damn about. It's bad race design to create such an immensely huge opportunity for a blatant dump stat like that.

[Pesimismrocks]

I agree. Cha to hp is way to big. It's a feat to get this for only first level. Perhaps mak it LA2 and get it once every other level. Your getting a changeling a human and an enormous bonus. La0 is far too weak

[EdroGrimshell]

Again, blown way out of proportion, it's a minor boost at best. At low levels it seems a considerable boost, but at higher levels the HP you get from class vastly overshadows the HP from Cha instead of Con, just like normal Constitution. And, as was said already, you can get Cha to HP with a feat at 1st level. That means take away the human bonus feat, and you just have a human with minor shapechange that just so happen to all have the same exact bonus feat.

It's not "enormous" or "big" or even "moderate". It's just a minor boost, that's it. It's just blown out of proportion because people in the past have said "it's too strong because of spellcasting classes" and people shortened it to just "it's too strong" and now causes almost everyone to immediately go "that's way too OP, get rid of it, now!" even though I know for a fact it isn't "way OP" or anything. It's just a nice small boost.

I'm not continuing the arguement past this point because it'd derail the thread, but I've said my piece and know it's true because I've used something similar before with Int to HP instead of Con (which gives a much stronger bonus than Cha) and it wasn't even a major boost, meaning Cha definitely isn't.

[saxavarius]

The reason for Cha to HP is that the only thing keeping a majhaarat in a physical body is a desire for revenge/ regaining their lost power; they literally will themselves a physical body. Charisma is a persons strength of personality.

[anacalgion]

The reason for Cha to HP is that the only thing keeping a majhaarat in a physical body is a desire for revenge/ regaining their lost power; they literally will themselves a physical body. Charisma is a persons strength of personality.

Sure, but that's your fluff. No one is arguing with your fluff, it's the balance that's off.

[AuraTwilight]

Again, blown way out of proportion, it's a minor boost at best. At low levels it seems a considerable boost, but at higher levels the HP you get from class vastly overshadows the HP from Cha instead of Con, just like normal Constitution. And, as was said already, you can get Cha to HP with a feat at 1st level. That means take away the human bonus feat, and you just have a human with minor shapechange that just so happen to all have the same exact bonus feat.

It's not "enormous" or "big" or even "moderate". It's just a minor boost, that's it. It's just blown out of proportion because people in the past have said "it's too strong because of spellcasting classes" and people shortened it to just "it's too strong" and now causes almost everyone to immediately go "that's way too OP, get rid of it, now!" even though I know for a fact it isn't "way OP" or anything. It's just a nice small boost.

I'm not continuing the arguement past this point because it'd derail the thread, but I've said my piece and know it's true because I've used something similar before with Int to HP instead of Con (which gives a much stronger bonus than Cha) and it wasn't even a major boost, meaning Cha definitely isn't.

Okay cool except none of that even addresses any of my arguments. I'm not saying it's OP or anything, I'm saying it makes an entire stat almost entirely worthless for a character to have. Saxavarius might as well just give them Undead traits at this point considering they also have negative energy associations.

[saxavarius]

Made some changes to the race
Racial Traits:
Bonus Domain Feat
+1 skill point per level
change shape (allows minor changes to apperance e.g. hair color/length; cannot take apperance of specific person)

[Debihuman]

You left out basic information: size and type (and subtype if any), speed, etc. in your racial traits.

[Scots Dragon]

A good thing to do might be to make it into a template which is to be applied to other races; this creature piggybacks on the otherwise stillborn offspring of other races like a changeling and thus takes their physical form, though not necessarily their mental traits. The result is naturally a strange form of undead that resembles the vague form of a living version of those creatures, though it ages to adulthood almost as normal.

It might also be worth switching over and making this into a Pathfinder template, since undead in that system have the charisma bonus to hit points as a standard feature.

[AuraTwilight]

Uh, Narsil, I don't think the OP is asking for you to completely reinvent their race like that.

[saxavarius]

The thought of making it a template did cross my mind, so let me write one up quick;

can be applied to any corporeal humanoid or monstrous humanoid
Bonus Domain Feat
+1 skill point per level
change shape (allows minor changes to apperance e.g. hair color/length; cannot take apperance of specific person)
(PF) undead traits

Spoiler

Show

No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature's Intelligence score.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

LA +1 (maybe 2 though i would like 1)

[Tanuki Tales]

Uh, Narsil, I don't think the OP is asking for you to completely reinvent their race like that.

He didn't. He just gave some advice, which is the point of these threads along with critiquing.