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    Default [3.5] Vampire lite

    Thank you to all who helped me make this template. The template and feat sections are done. Please review and point out any flaws or editing errors. I am now working on a paragon class and ask for suggestions or review on what I have.

    Wikipedia-like cross-indexing:
    Eripmav
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    Creating a Vampire
    "Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
    A vampire uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
    --Size and Type: The base creature's type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
    --Hit Dice: Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.
    --Speed: Same as the base creature. If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire retains the ability to swim and does not have the running water taboo (see below).
    --Armor Class: The base creature's natural armor bonus improves by +2.
    --Special Attacks: A vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + 1/2 vampire's HD + vampire's Cha modifier unless noted otherwise.
    --Blood Drain (Ex): A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. The victim must be within one size category of the vampire and have a circulatory system containing blood. If the vampire pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage each round the pin is maintained. Each such successful attack heals the vampire 5 hit points.
    --Charm Gaze (Su): Vampires can charm humanoid or monstrous humanoid opponents just by looking into their eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at the vampire are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must make a successful Will save or fall under the vampire’s influence as though affected by a charm monster spell (caster level equal to HD). Any creature that successfully saves against a vampire’s charm gaze cannot be affected by that vampire’s charm gaze for 24 hours. The ability has a range of 30 feet. A vampire may use this ability a maximum of 3 + Cha modifier times per day (minimum 1/day).
    --Create Spawn (Su): A humanoid or monstrous humanoid whose Constitution has been drained to 0 or lower by a vampire's blood drain returns as a vampire 1d4 days after burial. The new vampire is not enslaved by the vampire that created it but has free will.
    --Special Qualities: A vampire retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.
    --Damage Reduction (Su): A vampire has damage reduction 5/silver or magic. However, a helpless vampire does not benefit from damage reduction.
    --Fast Healing (Ex): A vampire heals 1 point of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point but less than half its full normal hit points. As long as the vampire has more than half its full normal hit points, its fast healing does not function.
    --Resistances (Ex): A vampire has resistance to cold 5 and electricity 5.
    --Turn Resistance (Ex): A vampire has +2 turn resistance.
    --Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +2, Cha +2. As an undead creature, a vampire has no Constitution score.
    --Skills: Vampires have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as base creature.
    --Feats: As base creature. Vampires also gain Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Initiative as a bonus feats, even if the base creature does not meet the prerequisites.
    When you become a vampire you may trade one feat for a vampire feat as long as the feat you trade wasn't chosen from a limited list. You may also trade in one non-vampire feat acquired by leveling up for a vampire feat every time you level up. You may not trade in a feat this way if it is a prerequisite for another feat you possess or for a prestige class you have levels in.
    --Alignment: Usually evil (any).
    --Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2
    Vampire Weaknesses
    --Taboos: To maintain its powers a vampire must abide by certain taboos. When a vampire violates one of its taboos it loses access to all its vampire special qualities and special attacks until the next sunset. When a vampire breaks a taboo it also takes a -1 to all attack rolls, concentration checks, listen checks, search checks, and spot checks until the next sunset. Vampire taboos include:
    • Cannot enter direct sunlight
    • Cannot enter running water
    • Cannot attack or approach within 5 ft. of someone brandishing a holy symbol or mirror (holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action)
    • Cannot enter a home or other building unless invited by someone with the authority to do so (but may still enter public places)
    • Cannot enter an area laced with garlic

    --Sleep: Unlike most undead, vampires need to sleep. A vampire loses its fast healing special quality if it has not slept for at least 4 hours in the previous 24. Most vampires choose to sleep during the day. A vampire is helpless while sleeping.
    --Slashing and piercing weapons: Unlike most undead a vampire can be subject to sneak attacks and critical hits (including coup de graces) but only from slashing and piercing weapons. A common weapon used to kill a helpless vampire is a wooden stake.

    A wooden stake is a simple weapon the following profile
    {table=head]Weapon|Cost|Damage (M)|Critical|Range Increment|weight|Type

    Wooden stake|--|1d4|x2|--|1/2 lb.|Piercing[/table]

    Vampire Feats

    Some Vampire feats add special qualities or special attacks to the vampire, and others modify or add to existing ones. As such vampire feats are subject to a vampire's taboos unless otherwise stated.

    Brutal Fangs[Vampire]
    Your fangs can extend longer and your jaw muscles strengthen making your bite a dangerous weapon, even when you aren't drinking.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Str 13
    Benefit: You gain a natural bite attack if you did not already have one. If you did not already have a bite attack use the appropriate damage from the table below according to your size, and treat the bite attack as a primary natural attack. When you use your Blood Drain special attack you may also deal your bite damage in addition to the Constitution damage of the ability.
    Special: This feat is not affected by taboos.
    {table=head]Size|Bite damage

    Fine|1

    Diminutive|1d2

    Tiny|1d3

    Small|1d4

    Medium|1d6

    Large|1d8

    Huge|2d6

    Gargantuan|2d8

    Colossal|4d6[/table]

    Day Walker[Vampire]
    Your mastery of your vampiric powers makes the sun a less dangerous obstacle. Its affects on you no longer persist after you leave its sight.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Any two vampire feats
    Benefit: You no longer have the "cannot enter direct sunlight" taboo. Instead you loses access to your vampire special qualities and special attacks only as long as you are in direct sunlight. These abilities return when you are no longer in direct sunlight.
    Special:This feat is not affected by taboos.

    Improved Elemental Resilience[Vampire]
    You are more able to resist the cold and electricity.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Cha 13
    Benefit: Your resistances special quality improves to cold 10 and electricity 10.

    Improved Supernatural Skin[Vampire]
    Your skin has become more resistant to certain forms of attack.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Character level 9
    Benefit: Your damage reduction special quality improves to damage reduction 5/silver and magic. A vampire with at least five vampire feats gain damage reduction 10/silver and magic. You still lose the benefit of damage reduction if you are helpless.
    Special: Your natural weapons and unarmed strikes are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

    Improved Vampiric Healing[Vampire]
    The more you embrace your vampiric powers the faster you heal.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Character level 5
    Benefit: Replace your fast healing special quality with the following:
    --Fast Healing (Ex): A vampire heals a number of hit points per round equal to the number of vampire feats it has as long as it has at least 1 hit point, to a maximum of 5 hit points per round.

    Necrotic Mist [Vampire]
    You are harder to kill now as you are capable of turning into mist instead of just being destroyed.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Character level 5
    Bonus: Once per day, if an attack would reduce you to less than 1 hit point, you may instead attempt a Fortitude save with a DC equal to the difference between the attacks damage and your current hit points. You have a +1 bonus to this save for every vampire feat you possess. If your Fortitude save succeeds you immediately assume the form of necrotic mist for up to 10 minutes. Necrotic mist is an supernatural effect similar to gaseous form, except that while in the form of necrotic mist you are immune to hit point loss and have a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability. When the effect expires or is dismissed your hit points are set to 1 hp and you are helpless for one hour.
    Normal: An undead is normally destroyed if reduced below 1 hit point.

    Unnatural Acrobatics[Vampire]
    You have trained yourself to use your unnatural agility to climb surfaces with ease.
    Prerequisites: Vampire, Dex 13
    Bonus: You gain the the following special quality:
    --Spider Climb (Su): A vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though with a spider climb spell.

    Racial Paragon Class
    You cannot become a Vampire paragon if you are already a paragon of a race. If you become a vampire paragon you cannot become the paragon of a race.

    Vampire Paragon

    Hit Die: d12

    Class Skills (4+Int modifier per level): Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana, Geography, History, Local, Nobility or Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex).

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Vampire paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor.

    Spellcasting: At 2nd and 3rd level, a vampire paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of vampire paragon to the level in the spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.

    If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a vampire paragon, he must decide to which class he adds each level of vampire paragon. If a vampire paragon has no levels in a spellcasting class, this class feature has no effect.

    Improved Elemental Resilience: At 1st level, a vampire paragon gains Improved Elemental Resilience as a bonus feat even if he doesn't normally qualify for it. If the vampire paragon already has the Improved Elemental Resilience feat he may improve both his cold and electrical resistance by 5.

    Charm Gaze: At 2nd level, a vampire paragon gains a +2 bonus to the save DC of his charm gaze ability.

    Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, a vampire paragon gains a bonus feat. This feat can be any vampire feat. The character must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Improved Elemental Resilience|-

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Charm Gaze|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-08-18 at 03:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    Not bad. Not bad at all. I would actually use this.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    Thank you, it's always nice to have your work appreciated. I dropped a lot of stuff but still kept quite a bit so i had to weaken a lot of the powers.

    My favorite part is how I actually attempted to define a vampire's vulnerability to stake. A vampire will probably die given how harsh the fortitude save is and the complete lack of con modifier.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    is the fort save the standard coup de grace save?
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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    is the fort save the standard coup de grace save?
    Yes.

    I was just going to say yes but i can't because it is too short so now i will say that i will clarify it in the text.

    Edit: Does any one have an opinion on adding some form of natural attack like its original slam attack or maybe giving it improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat? Or maybe i should just leave it alone for now and start on racial feats.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-06-30 at 11:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    I like it too. It has enough abilities to give the feel of a vampire without being too overpowering. For example, instead of a dominating gaze, you have charm person 1/day. You have a spawn ability, but because your spawn have free will you can't raise your own army of the undead. Same flavor, but without the balance problems.

    One question about the blood drain; if your victim has been injured in battle, one point of blood drain might be enough to cause death. Should this be enough to cause the victim to return as a vampire? Also you should specify more how the victim returns. In 1d4 nights, probably, but only if buried.

    One part I don't particularly care for is the vampire weaknesses section. For instance, the part about exhaustion and nausea is very confusing, and the part about mirrors and brandished holy symbols is just odd. Isn't this represented by the turning ability of clerics? And if a villager brandishes a mirror at you for only one round, why are you unable to attack him for the rest of the encounter? Is there anything preventing you from using ranged attacks or spells?

    I know it is traditional vampire lore, but shouldn't it be reworked into something less strange and easier to play?

    Also, to be subject to a coup de grace, you have to be helpless. What do you think would be some common ways that a vampire would become helpless? And wouldn't a wooden stake have trouble overcoming the vampire's DR? Low damage and a low multiplier means that without sneak attack damage you might only do 1 hp damage.

    edit: Here is a suggestion that vampire weaknesses could function as wu jen taboos. I.e., they temporarily lose their powers if they walk in sunlight, are fully immersed in running water, harm someone brandishing a holy symbol or mirror, enter a home without an invitation, etc.. Probably the PC should just choose two or three typical weaknesses. A racial class that improved their powers could require that they take on more of them.
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-06-30 at 06:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    well he just took the Mirror, Holy Symbl thing directly from the Vampire entry in MM1
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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheiromancer View Post
    snip
    Thank you for the very constructive criticism. I will carfully comsider this and probably implament it in some way because the weaknesses are very confusing as is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    well he just took the Mirror, Holy Symbl thing directly from the Vampire entry in MM1
    So she did. But doesn't it strike you as kind of peculiar, as far as game mechanics go? I hope NeoPhoenix0 goes with the wu jen taboo idea. I think it would give it a lot of flavor.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    Thank you for the very constructive criticism. I will carfully comsider this and probably implament it in some way because the weaknesses are very confusing as is.
    Also, the vampire should be able to heal hit points by draining blood. The SRD says they get 5 temporary hit points per attack, but SRD vampires don't have any limitation on their fast healing.

    If you do go with vampire weakness = wu jen taboo, consider letting the vampire retain the blood drain ability even if it breaks a taboo. Drinking blood would then be a way of regaining its powers before it normally would recover.

    And about the recovery time after violating the taboo: A wu jen loses the ability to cast spells for the rest of the day; for a vampire it should be until the next sunset.
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-06-30 at 07:16 PM.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    I have altered the blood drain, create spawn, and vampire weaknesses sections.

    Do you think i should keep the wooden stake section or should i make damage from wooden weapons a taboo?
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-06-30 at 11:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    A wooden stake is an improvised weapon the following profile
    {table=head]Weapon|Cost|Damage (M)|Critical|Range Increment|weight|Type

    Wooden stake|--|1d4|x2|--|1/2 lb.|Piercing[/table]
    Id make it a simple weapon... everyone should be able use it without a penalty.
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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    I suppose it does seem to be pretty easy to stab someone with a pointed stick.

    Also upped the nat armor bonus to +2 for a few reasons including being a +2 LA template and the variety of ways they can lose many of their features.

    I might get around to making a few of those racial feats tomorrow.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-01 at 01:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Vampire lite

    I really like the revision.

    When you say "supernatural powers" (in the Weaknesses section), you don' t mean only the ones with the (Su) tag, do you? It still refers to all the Special Qualities and Special Attacks? I think you mean the latter (except for blood drain), but the wording sounds like the former.

    A few other ideas - take them or leave them as you like:
    • I was thinking that the vampire's vulnerability to decapitation and staking might indicate that it, unlike most undead, has a vulnerability to sneak attacks and critical hits. Although maybe only with slashing and piercing weapons.
    • Do you see feeding on blood as a requirement? How often, and what happens if a vampire is prevented from feeding (like being locked in a crypt?)
    • If a vampire needs to charm someone in order to feed or enter a private dwelling, 1/day might not be enough. Maybe a successful save means that the attempt doesn't count towards the daily limit. Someone who successfully saves is immune to further charm attempts by that vampire for 24 hours. Also, the charm should require eye contact.


    The rest of this post is not really criticism; I'm just trying to think things through. Nothing here requires changes to the template, unless you think some important issue arises.

    I wonder if the blood drain heals enough for higher level vampires? At 10th level a wounded vampire might need 30+ points of healing, or about 7 rounds of blood drain. That's an average of 17.5 points of Con damage. Two average commoners drained almost to death. Twice that amount at 20th level. A little ingenuity will provide healing for a vampire character (a level of dread necromancer, say, or a feat that allows them to be healed by the cleric), but I'm thinking of the base creature. Maybe it can 'sip' carefully from a willing (or charmed) donor so that each round drains only 1 point of Con. While still providing 5 hp of healing, of course.

    I know players who would want more precise definitions of the taboos. How deep the water has to be (and how fast does it have to be moving), whether a dragon's lair counts as a home (how about the caves inhabited by a tribe of goblins? The palace of a king?), things like that.

    I'd say that if it requires a swim check then it is deep enough, and if it is moving fast enough to have a swim DC above 10 ('calm') it is fast enough. I'd also be tempted to weaken the requirement that someone with authority invite the vampire in. Just that anyone do so. Which means that the vampire cannot generally be the first to go in; one of the other members of the party will have to go first, so they can extend the invitation. The DM should warn the player if a taboo arises ("the water is kinda deep and seems to be flowing pretty fast - are you sure Count Vlad wants to go in?")

    The other taboos depend on DM description. If the DM describes a room as laced with garlic, the vampire player knows that the taboo is being invoked. It is the same as if a wu jen has a taboo about speaking with someone dressed in blue; the character has to ask how people are dressed and listen carefully.

    I think the taboos should be basically common sense to interpret, but maybe someone else might say they need to more details.

    Anyway, I really want to thank you for this homebrew. I have found it very interesting and thought-provoking.

    edit: Vampires might also sleep. That's how people can catch them napping in their coffins.

    Also, I found this link to NeoSeraphi's "LA 0 Playable Vampires" wherein a description of private property is given:

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    A private residence is defined as a place that is owned by a specific person or person, legally. If no deed to the property exists, the space is treated as public to the vampire. A space whose total area exceeds 3000 square feet is never considered to be a private residence, even if a deed for such a space exists. However, inside one of these large spaces where a deed does exist, the vampire is unable to enter a private bedroom or other area whose primary purpose is for resting and whose ownership belongs clearly to an individual or a specific group of individuals who share the space equally (unless he has permission from the individual or from one or more of the group of individuals who own the space). Vampires may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all.


    I am not at all sure I like this. I would think that an illiterate society could have private dwellings, although they could not have written deeds.

    This revised vampire template has some interesting suggestions on blood drain and thirst:
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    Thirst

    As an undead, a vampire does not eat, breathe or sleep - although sleep in a coffin does protect them from the affects of daylight and they may awake at-will from this state and have no penalty to listen checks while sleeping. However, they must drink at least 2 gallons of blood each week from a living, sapient (3 Int or higher) being. Going without 2 gallons of blood for one week will cause them to begin to dehydrate from lack of thirst as a humanoid normally would.

    Blood Drain (Su)

    A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check (alternatively, the victim can already be helpless). If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. Each successful 'drain' counts as having drank 1/16th of a gallon of blood per point of Constitution drained.


    32 points of Constitution drain a week is an awful lot. Constitution damage (as in the vampire lite) is better, but still seems a lot. Revan Ordo's template suggests a different penalty; bite someone each night or start having to make saves to avoid penalties and possibly enter a frenzy. Something like this could work to simulate a vampire who has been imprisoned for a long time.
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-07-01 at 07:19 AM.

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    Thank you for your helpful and thought provoking posts.

    I don't think a vampire needs to feed all the time. At the same time if a vampire was trapped in a crypt for a year it probably shouldn't be at full power. Not sure what to do here yet, maybe a choice between eating and drinking blood, but if they don't eat or dink blood for a period of time they lose access to their powers until they do?

    As for healing with the base template at higher levels, as an intelligent undead a vampire can also heal naturally with rest. Making sleep a requirement is a good idea and i don't even have to make some weird rules about them being tired during the day. They can just chose when to sleep knowing that sunlight takes away their powers. I'm also planning on making vampire feats like the ones in your first link, those feats should really help me figure out what i want to do. I'm thinking of making one of them a better fast healing with out restrictions.

    On taboos, I think it should be up to the DMs judgement on specifics. On the cave issues, personally i would say that a cave with an entire tribe of goblins counts as a public area, but any huts built inside the cave would be a home. I agree that the DM and player need to cooperate a little when identifying the vampires taboos.

    Edit: Made several changes. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I think it is pretty balanced. I made it with level adjustment buy-off in mind because a lot of people here on the forum, including me, are likely to use it. Still open to suggestions though.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-01 at 03:27 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Getting better all the time! :D

    Does Vampiric Healing work if the vampire has more than half its normal hit points?

    I don't think the vampire's special abilities should work in sunlight, even with a feat. Maybe the Day Walker feat could allow the vampire's power to return immediately upon leaving sunlight, rather than its having to wait until sunset? And as for it removing another taboo at 20th level - isn't it powerful enough as it is? Besides, feats normally do not scale with character level.

    I also see that the number of taboos has been reduced to three. With Day Walker, only two. And at 20th level, only one. Does that seem right to you? The class that has taboos - the Wu Jen - gains additional taboos over time rather than losing them. I think that, if anything, the vampire should acquire more taboos over time. Maybe in exchange for extra powers - acquiring gaseous form, or turning into a swarm of bats or rats. Hmmm. We need a bigger list of taboos! Or at least other weaknesses.

    Maybe 'Day sleeping' could be a weakness. Actually, making them sleep for at least part of the day would also make staking a realistic possibility, since sleeping characters can be coup de graced. I think the normal listen penalty (-10) should apply, and an initiative penalty in the round when they awaken. I don't know what the consequences of them being kept awake would be.

    I'm still thinking about thirst. I think they should feed at least every three days or so. Then they get a small penalty to d20 rolls due to distraction. This penalty turns into a bonus to attack rolls and grapple checks made to pin an opponent. I am not sure of the specifics.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    well the logic behind losing taboos is because vampires are like dragons, they get scarier as they get older, they just dont get any bigger.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    well the logic behind losing taboos is because vampires are like dragons, they get scarier as they get older, they just dont get any bigger.
    Yeah, but a lot of the taboos are from Bram Stoke's Dracula. And I have trouble thinking of Dracula as being such a low level character that he hadn't yet freed himself of taboos. Mind you, if Gandalf is a 5th level character, maybe Dracula is too.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    It was actually always three taboos. However, I just decided to make it all of them because I couldn't come up with any more of them.

    I toned down the day walker feat as you suggested but decided that it would take away vulnerability to sunlight at level 20.

    Yes the vampiric healing feat works above half health, I made the prerequisites a little harder and might make the feat prerequisite specific if i make an appropriate feat to start the line.

    Edit: Given that dracula was in a no magic setting (I think, not sure though since i never read the book) he could very well have been level 5.

    Edit 2: You know, I was thinking of creating a really hard to qualify feat that allowed a vampire to control double its hit dice in vampires it spawned. one of the prerequisites would have been free-willed so no pyramid scheme. In the end i scrapped it because i like the idea of vampires creating other vampires to either punish certain people (depending on the vampire's mentality) or to have companions as they run from paladins and clerics of pelor until they are strong enough.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-02 at 12:36 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    I'm having second thoughts about the wisdom of my suggestion that "drinking blood would then be a way of regaining its powers before it normally would recover." Suppose someone is trying to hold a vampire off with a brandished holy symbol? The vampire attacks him, briefly loses its powers, but then takes a nice long drink and gets them back. Or suppose the vampire is at the door. The home-owner has saved vs charm and doesn't want to let the vampire in. The vampire steps into the house, briefly loses its powers, then drains the home-owner. See what I mean? The drink=recharge rule means that the taboos can be just ignored.

    And anyway, I think it was a bad suggestion on my part.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Yeah, that definitely needs to be fixed.

    edit: decided to still let them keep blood drain and some related feats i'm going to make because melee needs nice things. They just can't heal with it or get back their powers. Besides it would be weird to lose fangs.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-02 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Dracula was pretty much just a fighter with the Vampire Template, though he had the stats of an Ancient Vampire from Ravenloft, just not the actual age.

    Honestly he didnt do anything that would make me think he had a specific class, hell he probably just had a crap ton of undead HD.

    EDIT:Also im thinking maybe the vampire should only be subject to sneak attacks and crits from wooden piercing weapons. i mean beheading only works after they've been staked, otherwise they just get pissed. Also 15 con points drained seems a lot, on other templates where vampires have to feed it was 5 con per 3 days, which in a week would be about 6-7 con points drained.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2013-07-02 at 05:39 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Dracula was pretty much just a fighter with the Vampire Template, though he had the stats of an Ancient Vampire from Ravenloft, just not the actual age.

    Honestly he didnt do anything that would make me think he had a specific class, hell he probably just had a crap ton of undead HD.

    EDIT:Also im thinking maybe the vampire should only be subject to sneak attacks and crits from wooden piercing weapons. i mean beheading only works after they've been staked, otherwise they just get pissed. Also 15 con points drained seems a lot, on other templates where vampires have to feed it was 5 con per 3 days, which in a week would be about 6-7 con points drained.
    Are you sure he didn't just have a few levels in commoner combined with fast healing, monster strength and dexterity, and damage reduction among other various vampiric buffs?

    Also this template is about as far from Dracula as is both balanced and i can actually call vampiric. Might be able to become Dracula with the feats and some class levels.

    Might make a feat to gain critical and sneak attack immunity from slashing though. I wouldn't take the feat, then again i wouldn't take any of the melee based feats I'm making. I'm making them to give people who actually do play melee characters nice things, also the secondary reason they keep blood drain when they violate taboos.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-02 at 06:11 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    I think a hungry vampire would be more dangerous than one that is well fed. For instance, say that after 3 days without feeding, a vampire gets +1 to all d20 rolls related to hunting prey (listen checks for approaching prey, grapple checks to feed on victims, etc.) and -1 to all other d20 rolls (listen checks to overhear conversations, diplomacy and knowledge checks, saving throws, wisdom checks, etc.) This reflects the vampire's focus on getting blood, and the distraction it suffers in any other task. After a week the modifier increases to +2/-2. The vampire becomes gaunt and feral looking; fangs do not retract, eyes are red, and so on.

    As to how much blood is needed. Hmmm. People heal 1 point of constitution damage a day, right? So 15 a week would mean a "stable" of at least two or three people per vampire. It sounds a bit high, but I don't have any really strong intuitions about it.

    Also, as written the vampire can feed off of animals. A rat has a 10 constitution!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheiromancer View Post
    I think a hungry vampire would be more dangerous than one that is well fed. For instance, say that after 3 days without feeding, a vampire gets +1 to all d20 rolls related to hunting prey (listen checks for approaching prey, grapple checks to feed on victims, etc.) and -1 to all other d20 rolls (listen checks to overhear conversations, diplomacy and knowledge checks, saving throws, wisdom checks, etc.) This reflects the vampire's focus on getting blood, and the distraction it suffers in any other task. After a week the modifier increases to +2/-2. The vampire becomes gaunt and feral looking; fangs do not retract, eyes are red, and so on.

    As to how much blood is needed. Hmmm. People heal 1 point of constitution damage a day, right? So 15 a week would mean a "stable" of at least two or three people per vampire. It sounds a bit high, but I don't have any really strong intuitions about it.

    Also, as written the vampire can feed off of animals. A rat has a 10 constitution!
    Well I could leave feeding as is or limit the feeding to humanoids and monstrous humanoids but only require 10 constitution. The reason I say humanoids and monstrous humanoids is the only reason to limit it that makes sense to me is the type of blood. 10 constitution would make sense to me because that is about 1 average full human body of blood. You could still do constitution damage to other types of creatures it just wouldn't be power sustaining.

    As far bonuses to hunting goes, I'll have to think it over.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-02 at 06:27 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Weather vampires can feed on animals or no depends on the setting, and thats a human and a half a week, that seems a bit much to me personally, but thats just me.

    and that feat would be awesome, otherwise as a vampire id be horrified of swords instead of looking at them disdainfully as i should be lol
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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    I have made a change to the bite feat that frankly has just plain stupefying consequences, but i believe it was the right choice as i plan to make a couple more grappling themed feats. It now counts as improved unarmed strike. Imagine a vampire in a monk like prestige class that has a very powerful unarmed strike but does non-lethal damage.

    I am also considering getting rid of that and giving the template improved unarmed strike as a bonus feat. Input on this issue would be appreciated.

    Edit: decided to go for the improved unarmed strike bonus feat, but I am going to add it to the list of things the vampire loses when they break a taboo. Think of their punches as empowered by their supernatural dark powers.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-02 at 09:15 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    This is my version of NeoPhoenix0's excellent vampire template. Each of us has been tinkering with and proposing variants on a LA +2 template intended to provide the same flavor as the SRD vampire. I greatly appreciate NeoPhoenix0's creativity and hard work, and fully acknowledge my indebtedness for the idea and its execution.

    There are various differences between our versions. This vampire (or “vampier” to distinguish it from other versions) needs to feed, and has a cumulative penalty for breaking multiple taboos. Blood drain and spawning work differently. The paragon class gives different benefits. However, both templates assume that the LA can be bought off; the template provides drawbacks as well as benefits, and so could be LA+0 at mid to high levels.

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    Creating a Vampier
    "Vampier" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
    A vampier uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
    --Size and Type: The creature's type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
    --Hit Dice: Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.
    --Speed: Same as the base creature. If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampier retains the ability to swim and is not affected by the running water taboo (see below).
    --Armor Class: The base creature's natural armor bonus improves by +2.
    --Special Attacks: A vampier retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + 1/2 vampier's HD + vampier's Cha modifier unless noted otherwise.
    --Blood Drain (Ex): A vampier can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. This provokes an attack of opportunity unless the vampier has the appropriate feat. The victim must be within one size category of the vampier and have a circulatory system containing blood. If the vampier pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution damage each round the pin is maintained. Each such successful attack heals the vampier 5 hit points. A charmed victim will neither remember nor recognize that they were bitten.
    --Charm (Su): A vampier can charm an opponent just by looking into his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack, except the vampier must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Any humanoid or monstrous humanoid the vampier targets must succeed on a Will save or fall under the vampier's influence as though by a charm person spell (caster level equal to the vampier's hit dice). An opponent charmed in this way will not resist having their blood drained by the vampier. Anyone who succeeds on this Will save cannot be affected by that vampier for 24 hours. This ability has a range of 30 ft. A vampier may use this ability a maximum of 3 + Cha modifier times per day (minimum 1/day).
    --Create Spawn (Su): A humanoid or monstrous humanoid who dies with unhealed blood loss from a vampier's bite has a chance of rising from the grave. There is a 5% chance per point of unhealed constitution damage that the creature will return as a vampier. The new vampier rises 1d4 nights after being buried unless staked or decapitated. A newly created vampier has free will, and is initially friendly to its creator.
    --Energy Drain (Su): A vampier may choose to bestow one negative level on any living creature hit by the vampier’s unarmed strike. For each negative level bestowed, the vampier gains 5 temporary hit points that last up to one hour. The negative levels disappear after one hour, and can never cause permanent level loss. This ability is a free action, but can be used only once per round. Although a creature killed by a vampier's energy drain does not automatically become undead, such a creature is treated as having been killed by a death effect, and so cannot be returned to life with a raise dead spell.
    --Special Qualities: A vampier retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.
    --Damage Reduction (Su): A vampier has damage reduction 5/silver or magic. A vampier's natural weapons and unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    --Fast Healing (Ex): A vampier heals 1 point of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point but less than half its full normal hit points. As long as the vampier has more than half its full normal hit points, its fast healing does not function.
    --Resistances (Ex): A vampier has resistance to cold 5 and electricity 5.
    --Turn Resistance (Ex): A vampier has +2 turn resistance.
    --Undead Traits (Ex): A vampier has all undead traits unless noted otherwise.
    --Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +2, Dex +2, Cha +2. As an undead creature, a vampier has no Constitution score.
    --Skills: Vampiers have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as base creature.
    --Feats: As base creature. Vampiers also gain Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. When a vampier is created it may exchange any number of general feats it chose at previous levels and replace them, one at a time, with vampier feats. The vampier must meet the prerequisites of a feat before taking it. Similarly, whenever a vampier gains a new level of experience it may choose to give up one general non-vampier feat it previously chose and in its place gain a vampier feat whose prerequisites it meets. For example, a 6th level character may choose to give up the bonus feats gained at levels 1, 3 and 6 in exchange for Necrotic Mist, Improved Vampiric Healing and Day Walker. Feats that were not chosen (like the Endurance feat gained by 3rd level rangers), or which were chosen from a restricted list (such as the fighter or wizard list of bonus feats) cannot be exchanged for a vampier feat. A vampier cannot trade away a feat used as a prerequisite for a prestige class or another feat.
    --Alignment: Usually evil (any).
    --Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2

    Vampier Weaknesses

    --Taboos: To maintain its powers a vampier must abide by certain taboos. When a vampier violates one of its taboos it loses access to its charm and energy drain special attacks, and no longer heals hit points from using blood drain. The vampier also loses its damage reduction, fast healing and resistances special qualities. The powers return at the next sunset (or 24 hours later, if for some reason there is no night/day cycle). A vampier who breaks one taboo is wise not to break any others. Each different taboo violated by a powerless vampier results in a -1 penalty to all the vampier's d20 rolls. These penalties stack, to a maximum of -4. These penalties are removed when the vampier's powers are restored. Vampier taboos include:
    • Cannot enter direct sunlight (if the disk of the sun can be seen)
    • Cannot enter running water (at least 3 ft. wide and knee deep)
    • Cannot attack or approach within 5 ft. of someone brandishing a holy symbol or mirror (holding a vampier at bay takes a standard action)
    • Cannot enter a home or other building unless invited by someone with the authority to do so (but may still enter public places)
    • Cannot enter an area laced with garlic (a DC 15 knowledge check reveals this weakness; DC 10 in regions where vampiers are common)

    The vampier's charm gaze is not considered an attack. A charmed victim is easily persuaded to set aside a holy symbol or mirror, or to invite a vampier inside. If the victim is warned not to do this by a third party, the vampier must succeed in an opposed Charisma check to overcome the warning.

    --Sleep: Unlike most undead, vampiers need to sleep. A vampier loses its fast healing special quality if it has not slept for at least 6 hours in the previous 24. Most vampiers choose to sleep during the day. A vampier is helpless while sleeping.
    --Feeding: Although it can survive without it, a vampier craves blood. Any vampier who goes 3 days without using its blood drain ability becomes distracted by persistent cravings, suffering a -2 penalty to Concentration and Intelligence based checks, and a -1 to all other d20 rolls except attack rolls and grapple checks. If a week passes without feeding these penalties double to -4 and -2 respectively. A hungry vampier becomes gaunt and feral looking; fangs do not retract, eyes are red, and so on.
    --Extra Helpless: When a vampier is helpless it loses the benefit of damage reduction and fast healing, no matter the source of these abilities.
    --Slashing and piercing weapons: Unlike most undead a vampier can be subject to sneak attacks and critical hits (including coup de graces) but only from slashing and piercing weapons. A vampier is destroyed if decapitated, whether by a vorpal weapon or by other means. A common weapon used to kill a helpless vampier is a wooden stake through the heart.

    {table=head]Weapon|Cost|Damage (M)|Critical|Range Increment|weight|Type
    Wooden stake|--|1d4|x2|--|1/2 lb.|Piercing[/table]

    Vampier Feats

    Some vampier feats add special qualities or special attacks to the vampier, and others modify or add to existing ones. As such, vampier feats are subject to a vampier's taboos unless otherwise stated.

    Brutal Fangs [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, Str 13
    Benefit: You gain a natural bite attack if you did not already have one. If you did not already have a bite attack use the appropriate damage from the table below according to your size, and treat the bite attack as a primary natural attack. Whenever you deal your bite damage to a target within one size category of your own you may attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.
    Special: This feat is not affected by taboos.

    {table=head]Size|Bite damage
    Fine|1
    Diminutive|1d2
    Tiny|1d3
    Small|1d4
    Medium|1d6
    Large|1d8
    Huge|2d6
    Gargantuan|2d8
    Colossal|4d6[/table]

    Day Walker [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, any two vampier feats
    Benefit: You no longer have the "cannot enter direct sunlight" taboo. Instead you lose access to your vampier special qualities and special attacks only as long as you are in direct sunlight. Abilities lost due to exposure to sunlight return when you are no longer in direct sunlight.

    Improved Elemental Resilience [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, Cha 13
    Benefit: Your resistances improve to cold 10 and electricity 10.

    Improved Supernatural Skin [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, Character level 9
    Benefit: Your damage reduction improves to damage reduction 5/silver and magic. If you have at least five vampier feats you gain damage reduction 10/silver and magic.

    Improved Vampiric Healing [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, Character level 5
    Benefit: Replace your fast healing special quality with the following:
    --Fast Healing (Ex): As long as it has at least 1 hp, a vampier heals a number of hit points per round equal to the number of vampier feats it has, to a maximum of 5 hit points per round.

    Necrotic Mist [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, Character level 5
    Benefit: Once per day you have a chance of avoiding damage that would otherwise destroy you. You cannot use this ability if you are helpless or if your ability to use supernatural abilities has been suppressed. Otherwise, if you would sustain more damage than your current hit points, you may instead attempt a Fortitude save with a DC equal to the difference between the damage being inflicted and your current hit points. You have a +1 bonus to this save for every vampier feat you possess. If your Fortitude save succeeds you immediately assume the form of necrotic mist for up to 10 minutes. Necrotic mist is a supernatural effect similar to gaseous form, except that while in the form of necrotic mist you are immune to hit point loss and have a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability. When the effect expires or is dismissed your hit points are set to 1 hp and you are helpless for one hour.
    Normal: An undead is normally destroyed if reduced below 1 hp.

    Unnatural Acrobatics [Vampier]
    Prerequisites: Vampier, Dex 13
    Benefit: You gain the following special quality:
    --Spider Climb (Su): A vampier can climb sheer surfaces as though with a spider climb spell.

    Racial Paragon Class
    You may become a vampier paragon even if you are already a paragon of a race. If you become a vampier paragon you may still become the paragon of your original race.

    Vampier Paragon

    Hit Die: d12

    Class Skills (4+Int modifier per level): Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana, Geography, History, Local, Nobility or Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex).

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Vampier paragons are proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor.

    Shadowless: At 1st level, a vampier paragon no longer has a reflection or casts a shadow. This ability protects against effects (such as the scrying spell) that scan an area that the vampier paragon is in; the effect works but the vampier paragon simply isn't detected. Scrying attempts that are targeted specifically at the vampier paragon do not work at all. For the purpose of this ability, a scrying effect is one that allows one to gain information about an area or target but does not require line of effect.

    Charm Gaze: At 2nd level, a vampier paragon gains a +2 bonus to the save DC of his or her charm ability.

    Class advancement: At 2nd and 3rd level, a vampier paragon gains class features and an increase in effective level as if it had also gained a level in a standard class to which it belonged before adding the paragon class level. The specific class features the vampier paragon gains include spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), improved chance of turning or destroying undead, metamagic or item creation feats, bonus feats, monk special abilities, sneak attack progressions, and so on, depending on the class. The vampier paragon does not, however, gain the benefit of its previous class's Hit Dice, attack progression, skill points, or saving throws. If the vampier had more than one class before becoming a vampier paragon, it must decide to which standard class to add each level for the purpose of determining class abilities.

    Bonus Feat: At 3rd level, a vampier paragon gains a bonus feat. This feat can be any vampier feat. The character must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally.

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Class advancement

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Shadowless|-

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Charm Gaze|+1 level of existing standard class

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Bonus Feat|+1 level of existing standard class[/table]
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-08-26 at 08:14 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    As you can see I liked a lot of your changes and formatting choices. Yes there has been a number of changes over time, but i believe that I am satisfied with the template itself now, though i may have made a couple of errors when adjusting it just now.

    I decided to scrap the whole feeding thing. It's just one of those mechanics i'm not happy with. Any DM that uses this template should feel free to choose differently though. I feel that while flavorful it can just complicate things and possibly bog down games. I don't think leaving it out will unbalance the template.

    I think i'm going to link your alternate write up in the opening post just as soon as I figure out how.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheiromancer View Post
    --Create Spawn (Su): A humanoid or monstrous humanoid whose Constitution has been drained to 0 or lower returns as a vampire 1d4 days after burial. The new vampire is not enslaved by the vampire that created it but has free will.
    You may wish to change your create spawn ability so it specifies blood drain.
    Last edited by NeoPhoenix0; 2013-07-03 at 12:57 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoPhoenix0 View Post
    You may wish to change your create spawn ability so it specifies blood drain.
    Got it. We could still use a few more feats. Gaseous form. Summon Swarm (bats and rats, probably). Swarm form. Dominate spawn (or at least 'friendly spawn'). And probably some kind of vampire racial class that gives bonus vampire feats, so players could actually take them. Some of the abilities mentioned might be too strong for a feat, but could be class abilities of a racial class. Or possibly alternate class features for a vampire who happens to be a warlock or something.

    I think, though, that this would be a separate project. Making a full vampire out of a vampire lite through the use of feats and racial classes. It might be a good idea to take a day or two to see if the base template needs any more tweaking before starting a new thread. I feel, though, that it is pretty solid.

    I enjoyed collaborating with you on this, NeoPhoenix0.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Vampire lite

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheiromancer View Post
    Got it. We could still use a few more feats. Gaseous form. Summon Swarm (bats and rats, probably). Swarm form. Dominate spawn (or at least 'friendly spawn'). And probably some kind of vampire racial class that gives bonus vampire feats, so players could actually take them. Some of the abilities mentioned might be too strong for a feat, but could be class abilities of a racial class. Or possibly alternate class features for a vampire who happens to be a warlock or something.
    Got gaseous form and a summon ability. Went with a straight up alternate form like the SRD vampire instead of a swarm form. Dominate spawn is definitely too strong for a feat. I'm not going to make a racial class, I'm just not that inspired. I'm glad I made this template though. Feel free to make a racial class. dominate spawn would be a good power there, I would suggest in that case to make free will a prerequisite to enter the class.

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