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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    The Great White North

    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef XLVII. Here in Optimization Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

    Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
    32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
    If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Sunday, July 21st, 2013 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Kuulvheysoon. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Saturday, August 3rd 10th, 2013 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!
    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
    Show
    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]Class[/b]|[b]Base Attack Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[b]Skills[/b]|[b]Feats[/b]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
    Show
    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
    Show
    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

    This week's special ingredient is:
    Fey Feature's Cold Iron Warrior!
    We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

    Allez optimiser!

    Contestants

    Judges

    The Builds

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I: Entropomancer
    Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent
    Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage
    Iron Chef IV: Stonelord
    Iron Chef V: War Chanter
    Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks
    Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept
    Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist
    Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord
    Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar
    Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo
    Iron Chef XII: War Mind
    Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante
    Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song
    Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master
    Iron Chef XVI: Assassin
    Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante
    Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter
    Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate
    Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion
    Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker
    Iron Chef XXII: Dervish
    Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader
    Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier
    Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu
    Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer
    Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender
    Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist
    Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier
    Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia
    Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel
    Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara
    Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator
    Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple
    Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver
    Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin
    Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar
    Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master
    Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker
    Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator
    Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer
    Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade
    Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger
    Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul
    Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat
    Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2013-08-01 at 04:35 PM.

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    FAQ:
    What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually...

    Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

    What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

    Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

    What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

    What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Kuulvheysoon is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

    What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

    What kind of smite does the Cold Iron Warrior get? For the purposes of this contest, a 10th level CIW gets smite fey 3/day, regardless of what the text for smite fey may or may not say.
    Last edited by Kuulvheysoon; 2013-07-07 at 12:53 PM.

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Bellona

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Huh. Definitely NOT what I was expecting. Not sure what I was expecting, but it certainly wasn't this.

    Probably in to judge this round, I'm due for a judging.
    Optimization Showcase in the Playground

    Former projects:
    Shadowcaster Handbook
    Archer Build Compendium

    Iron Chef Awards!
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    GOLD
    IC LXXVI: Talos
    IC LXXV: Alphonse Louise Constant
    IC XLIX: Babalon, Queen of Bones
    IC XLV: Dead Mists
    IC XL: Lycus Blackbeak
    IC XXXIX: AM-1468
    IC XXXV: Parsifal the Fool
    IC XXX: Jal Filius

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    You continue to amaze me with these ingredients, Kuul.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 26. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Venger's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    I'm all over this dish. Let's get cooking!
    Last edited by Venger; 2013-07-06 at 07:29 PM.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
    Iron Chef Deep Freeze: Turning Tables on Old Dishes

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    thethird's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    The fun part... I have played one. The not so fun part... it is MAD, really, MAD.
    Thanks a lot Gengy for the awesome... just a sec... avatar. :)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Huh. Definitely NOT what I was expecting. Not sure what I was expecting, but it certainly wasn't this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    You continue to amaze me with these ingredients, Kuul.
    Good. I'm pleased to hear you guys say that.

    Kazyan nearly had it when he guessed an online ingredient. It's also available to everyone, satisfying requests for an SRD ingredient.

    Avatar by Iron Penguin.

    The Power of the Orient: A Wu Jen Handbook

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S. Kemp
    Frankly, I think the designers and novelists did great work in the post-Spellplague Realms. But, in the end, this wasn’t a new setting. It was the Realms, the Realms 100 years later, and therein lay the problem.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Greetings everyone!

    Hmm this is definitely unexpected. I like the flavor but darn, a smitey class...well I'll probably give this one a shot. If I can't work out something good and there aren't too many entries, I'll give it my first try at judging.
    Spoiler: Sigs about the Internet and Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amidus Drexel View Post
    Yeah... even if it's a fairly friendly place by the internet's standards... it's still the internet. A certain level of pedantic bickering is to be expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    The forums can't universally agree that the sun will rise in the east. Disagreement is what we do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacior
    If I can get a pet dinosaur, I totally will. My low wisdom means a raptor looks like a great guard dog.


    Awesome Holy Knight Haluesen avatar done by the uber skilled Grinner!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Viscount's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Well, this is an odd one. Not sure if I have anything for this one. Perhaps I'll cook if inspiration strikes.
    Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
    Quote Originally Posted by willpell View Post
    Only playing Tier 1s is like only eating in five-star restaurants [...] sometimes I just want a cheeseburger and some frogurt. Why limit yourself?
    Awards

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Oh, god...that's pretty awful. I'm not sure how anyone will actually make use of those abilities into a cohesive build. Good luck, brave, brave warriors.
    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dusk Eclipse's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    It is quite interesting and the entry requirements are relatively easy, it has some rather interesting abilities.
    Just call me Dusk
    Avatar by Ceika

    Dming: Eyes of the Lich Queen IC OOC


  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Hmm... I have an interesting plan for this. I'll certainly use [REDACTED], but need a base first
    Avatar by Venetian Mask. It's of an NPC from a campaign I may yet run (possibly in PbP) who became a favorite of mine while planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    Everyone knows frying pans are actually weapons that people repurpose for cooking
    I am a 10/14/11/15/12/14 LG Clr 2

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Deadline's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Good gravy, I'm in.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    I'm just thoroughly nonplussed by this thing. I can't see myself cooking up anything all that interesting. I'm excited about the prospect of becoming more involved in IC after the last competition though, and there was a whole lot of talk about the value of judging in the last thread, so I'll do that this round.

    Criteria:

    Originality
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    Start from a baseline score of 3.

    Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty based on whether the classes/race you used were things I expected, and whether anyone else thought to use them. I won't deduct points for using Human. Particularly stinky known cheese may see a deduction here.

    Up to 1 point of bonus or penalty to a build doing something interesting or something we've all seen it before respectively. You can fill a common niche without incurring my wrath, but I'd like to see a new spin on it. Cool factor in your crunch may see a bonus here.

    Up to a 0.25 point bonus if I find your fluff to be particularly excellent.

    Plagiarism of another build found online will result in a 0 in this category. If you wish to dispute an accusation of plagiarism (ie, if you wish to demonstrate that the build I accuse you of copying was originally yours), PM me directly instead of using the standard dispute process so that I can confirm your identity, but you remain anonymous for other judges. I don't expect to have to invoke this rule, but it's here if necessary.


    Power
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    Start from a baseline score of 3.

    Up to 0.75 point of bonus or penalty for versatility. Do you have a variety of options or are you a one trick pony that can easily be shut down?

    Up to 1.25 points of bonus or penalty for how well you do the things that you do. For example, if you're a front line fighter, how good are you at hurting things?


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    Start from a baseline score of 4.

    Each failure to qualify for a non-secret ingredient thing results in a 0.5 point deduction.

    A rule interpretation which is highly questionable or likely not to fly at the average table will result in a penalty of up to 0.25 points depending on severity.

    Up to 0.75 points of bonus or penalty based on the overall flow of the build. A clean, flowing progression will score more points, while a dip-happy build may be penalized.

    Up to 0.25 bonus points if the build just screams classy.

    Note: As it's particularly relevant to this challenge, I'm going to explicitly say that I will not punish the use of an Otyugh Hole to gain Iron Will.


    UoSI
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    Start from a baseline score of 1.

    I will award bonus points for every class ability or prerequisite that I see used in some way. The more integral the use is to the build, the larger the bonus.

    If the build really captures the feel of the SI, I'll award an additional 0.25 point bonus.

    A build which fails to qualify for the SI or uses no levels of the SI receives a 0 in this category.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Question– Do I include bloodline levels, or can I assume they've been taken? Or in general, how do they work?
    Last edited by Razanir; 2013-07-06 at 10:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Well, this looks interesting. Already have a couple of stubs forming in my mind.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    I should be able to get back in the saddle with this one. Competing.

    EDIT: Are we to assume that the references in the text to "Smite Evil" are a typo, or does Text Trump Table here, giving the result of 1/day Smite Fey, and 2/day Smite Evil by 10th level?
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2013-07-07 at 05:54 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Count me in on this one.

    EDIT: I believe we can say that the inconsistency in the smite fey ability is merely a typo.
    Last edited by kellbyb; 2013-07-07 at 09:33 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    EDIT: Are we to assume that the references in the text to "Smite Evil" are a typo, or does Text Trump Table here, giving the result of 1/day Smite Fey, and 2/day Smite Evil by 10th level?
    That's a good catch in the document, but no in the table it says its smite fey 3/day despite what the description says

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    As a judge, I am going to assume it is meant to be smite fey 3/day, unless the Chairman says otherwise.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Feilith View Post
    That's a good catch in the document, but no in the table it says its smite fey 3/day despite what the description says
    Right, but general WotC order of operations says that Text Trumps Table. See also: pages and pages of debate over Rainbow Servant.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Right, but general WotC order of operations says that Text Trumps Table. See also: pages and pages of debate over Rainbow Servant.
    But at the same time, it is rather obvious that it was a copy-paste from the Paladin. I argue that it was an editing oversight on their part, and that it really is supposed to be Smite Fey 3/day.

    On an unrelated note, do bloodline levels count toward my 20 levels of build? Also, the age-old question: Do bloodline levels count for unlocking bloodline abilities?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    But at the same time, it is rather obvious that it was a copy-paste from the Paladin. I argue that it was an editing oversight on their part, and that it really is supposed to be Smite Fey 3/day.

    On an unrelated note, do bloodline levels count toward my 20 levels of build? Also, the age-old question: Do bloodline levels count for unlocking bloodline abilities?
    Your argument duly noted; we'll see what the Chair's final word is.

    Please note the OP on disclosing too much info on your build pre-reveal.

    Please note the FAQ on Bloodlines.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Razanir View Post
    On an unrelated note, do bloodline levels count toward my 20 levels of build? Also, the age-old question: Do bloodline levels count for unlocking bloodline abilities?
    I don't know, but see quoted text (Bolded for emphasis).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    FAQ:

    Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.
    EDIT: And swordsaged by the previous Chair.
    Last edited by mattie_p; 2013-07-07 at 09:22 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie_p View Post
    I don't know, but see quoted text (Bolded for emphasis).

    QUOTE
    Huh. Okay, looks like I need a new idea.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    My problems with bloodlines as a judge are twofold:

    1. Taking bloodlines on top of a 20-level build are problematic for the same reason that level adjustment is problematic - you're essentially getting extra levels for free. While in a game that would be mitigated by periods where you were under-leveled compared to the rest of party due to spending XP on bloodline levels or LA, in a contest like this, it's basically just free levels when compared to other builds.

    I'd have far less of a problem with bloodlines if they were taken as separate levels all their own, such as we saw Briggs do back in the Shadowblade competition - Gotterdamerung submitted a Binder 7/Shadowblade 10 with three bloodline levels, but because he was essentially "paying" for those three bloodline levels by submitting a build three levels short, it seemed fair.

    2. There are so many mechanics that are just broken to heck and back by bloodlines. In particular, they interact in wonky ways with initiating and pact magic classes, and they let you break skill caps earlier than the game intended you to. Taking a bunch of initiating classes and then bloodlines to bootstrap your initiator level so that you can still squeeze in 9th-level maneuvers on top of the SI, or a level in binder and a level each in, say, Anima Mage, KotSS, and Scion of Dantalion so that three bloodline levels give you a +12 boost to their effective binder level, is so cheesy that I would have to slam any entry that even hinted at doing this.

    Like every rule, there are exceptions - the aforementioned Briggs used bloodlines and still managed to nab the gold, gaining enough points in other areas to make up for the elegance hit he took for using bloodlines. But expect at least a minor hit for using them all, and possibly a major hit depending on how you use them.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    I gotta admit, I have never understood bloodlines. They look interesting and like a challenge to play, but I just don't get how to use them at all. I've read through the section about them many times, and I still just get confused when looking at it.

    Also I've always wondered why traits are a Bad Thing here. I mean flaws makes sense; those bonus feats can make a huge difference. But traits give such minor benefits that I've only ever seen them as flavor. So what's up with them here?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    Quote Originally Posted by Haluesen View Post
    I gotta admit, I have never understood bloodlines. They look interesting and like a challenge to play, but I just don't get how to use them at all. I've read through the section about them many times, and I still just get confused when looking at it.
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    The best way I've seen them described is that you're taking a level adjustment over time, to represent a powerful force in your bloodline manifesting itself.

    Basically, you get abilities as you level up. You "pay" for these levels by spending XP on bloodline levels. These bloodline levels are NOT actual levels and don't increase your ECL, add hit points or skill points, etc., but they do progress any solely level-dependent feature of an existing class, such as caster level or initiator level. They also increase your maximum ranks for skill points - ie, a level 4 character with one bloodline level can have as many as 8 ranks in a given skill, even though the bloodline level itself doesn't grant her any skill ranks.

    So, used as (I believe) they were intended, it's like a slightly less painful level adjustment. Because bloodline levels don't boost your ECL, you can make up the XP difference between you and the rest of your party eventually. And while in the end they are less powerful than an LA +3 template typically would be, you do at least get to improve some of your existing class features, and you don't sit as far behind on the level curve.

    Where the abuse comes in is not from the intended benefits of bloodlines, but from the way bloodlines interact with other classes, break the skill cap, etc. For example, many classes have skill rank requirements as a way to prevent you from entering early. Bloodlines can mean early entry, since you boost your max ranks in a skill but don't actually go up in ECL.

    Also, some classes have level-dependent features that get wonky when things advance them. For example, Knight of the Sacred Seal says you add your levels in KoSS to your binder level. Well, now a level in a bloodline counts as an additional level in all of your existing classes for things like CL and EBL. So a Binder 6/KotSS 1 would ordinarily have an EBL of 7. Add in a single bloodline level, which boosts the EBL of binder by 1. But it also boosts your effective levels in KotSS by 1 as well, so that single bloodline level raised your effective binder level by 2, without even raising your ECL. Add in a level in, say, Scion of Dantalion, and now each bloodline level effectively raises your EBL by 3. And so on.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

    I am in. In fact i submitted already due to RL. I might regret this though Shooting for Elegance 1.5

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLVII

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    Well dang. Alright then, thank you for the lesson. They still seem interesting at least, for a player who doesn't abuse them. I might read over the section again.


    There's already a submitted build? Well wow. I commend you Korahir. I now have an idea for a build, but the way I see it there will be high Originality and hopefully UotSI, but I can see Elegance taking a hit and probably Power. Still, I feel the idea is fun enough for a try.
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