Racial pricing of Darkvision

[Gnarnia]

Anyone else feel like they had a good initial setup for darkvision, and then radically changed track?

In my view, darkvision is one of the more powerful racial abilities. It opens up a lot of combat advantages simply by turning out the lights.

In the original PHB races, it's only dwarves and half-orcs that get it. As far as monsters go, it really only shows up on subterranean races and things like undead where it makes sense.

But subsequently, it seems like they stick it on anything with eyeballs. Aasimar? Yeah, you get darkvision. Lesser aasimar? Yeah, you get it too even though you're not outsider type.

Anthropomorphic cat? Sure, why not. Humans have no night vision. Cats only have lowlight vision. So it makes perfect sense that an anthropomorphic cat should have darkvision, amirite? It has nothing to do with this being a good race for rogues! Not at all! No way, no sir! It's totally logical.

Meh.

[Galvin]

What type of response were you looking for, exactly? Is there a question?

You, know, darkvision isn't gamebreaking, as you've made it out to be. It's the ability to see in the dark, which can be replicated by a 3rd level spell or negated by a 1cp item called a torch. Lesser Aasimar have darkvision because they are lesser versions of aasimar, which have darkvision because they are outsiders! Cats SHOULD have darkvision, not just low light vision.

All and all, darkvision isn't THAT big of a deal, it's situational, and is meaningless later on when you can just replicated or negate it's affects with a spell or natural lighting.

[Sith_Happens]

I'd give the Monster Manual another read-through. At least half the book has Darkvision.

[Galvin]

A lot of animals in the natural world today can see in the dark as they need to to survive. Same goes for fantasy critters.

[PersonMan]

Darkvision? The thing that is rarely useful because your party will carry a light source anyways? The one that's better for enemies but isn't used much because playing the 'make light, kill light, make light, kill light' game is annoying?

Eh. It doesn't really do much in actual play apart from pad out racial abilities so it doesn't look like a race is nothing but +X to one stat and -Y to another.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Anthropomorphic cat? Sure, why not. Humans have no night vision. Cats only have lowlight vision. So it makes perfect sense that an anthropomorphic cat should have darkvision, amirite?
Meh.

Where is this cat race this has dark vision? Its not Catfolk from Races of the Wild they have low-light vision.

[CRtwenty]

Darkvision is overrated. Perpetual lighting is available even to 1st level PCs so unless you're dealing with magical darkness (which Darkvision does nothing against) lack of lighting is usually not going to be an issue.

Sure it's nifty to have, but it's not exactly game breaking so I don't mind it being given out so often.

[Morcleon]

You, know, darkvision isn't gamebreaking, as you've made it out to be. It's the ability to see in the dark, which can be replicated by a 3rd level spell or negated by a 1cp item called a torch.

Or a 20 gp item called Liquid Sunlight that never goes out. xD

[Fax Celestis]

A lot of animals in the natural world today can see in the dark as they need to to survive. Same goes for fantasy critters.

That would be low-light vision, not darkvision.

[Telonius]

Where is this cat race this has dark vision? Its not Catfolk from Races of the Wild they have low-light vision.

Probably the Anthropomorphic Template from Savage Species (p.215, Darkvision 60 under Special Qualities).

[Lord Vukodlak]

Probably the Anthropomorphic Template from Savage Species (p.215, Darkvision 60 under Special Qualities).

Ahh so 3.0 material

[Lateral]

Well, I think the idea is more that if you have a party with darkvision fighting an enemy without darkvision, you can just turn out the lights and kick its ass.

The problem with that tactic is... well, there are a lot of monsters with darkvision. Hell, I just randomly clicked on ten different SRD monsters, and every single one had Darkvision 60 except for the Gelatinous Cube, which had Blindsight.

[Zanos]

Well, I think the idea is more that if you have a party with darkvision fighting an enemy without darkvision, you can just turn out the lights and kick its ass.

The problem with that tactic is... well, there are a lot of monsters with darkvision. Hell, I just randomly clicked on ten different SRD monsters, and every single one had Darkvision 60 except for the Gelatinous Cube, which had Blindsight.

I find that in most parties at least one or two people at the minimum aren't going to have darkvision, with humans as popular as they are. It's kind of impolite to tell them to turn out the light.

[Lateral]

I find that in most parties at least one or two people at the minimum aren't going to have darkvision, with humans as popular as they are. It's kind of impolite to tell them to turn out the light.

Well, that too. It doesn't work as a tactic if everyone else can't see in the dark.

[karkus]

It's much more useful in human cities than in a dungeon, keep in mind

[Gnarnia]

I didn't say it darkvision was overpowered. Obviously it's not.

Just that it seems in later supplements like they keep sticking it on races that don't have a good reason to have it. I don't mind if a race that lives underground has darkvision, but it bugs me when designers treat it like it's a total freebie. Even gnomes & halflings just have lowlight vision and they spend a lot of time in the ground.

For all the people saying that perpetual lighting is just as good though, you're not considering stealth. A character that has darkvision has some clear advantages when trying to move stealthily over a character that requires a lightsource. Again, that's not to say that darkvision is overpowered, but it's certainly worth more than a magic torch.

[Cheiromancer]

I didn't say it darkvision was overpowered. Obviously it's not.

Just that it seems in later supplements like they keep sticking it on races that don't have a good reason to have it.

You make a good point. Is there any other feature that it could be correlated with?

For example, a race with light sensitivity could have it, or whose habitat is exclusively nocturnal or underground. Those with darkvision that extends further than the standard 60 foot range. Undead and outsiders, too. Any others?

I know it is a kind of homebrew question to try to fix the issue you raise, but it is still worth asking.

[SowZ]

Sunrods are cheap, too. Also, due to MIC magic combination, you can slap darkvision on whatever your head or face gear of choice is for pretty cheap.

[Gnarnia]

You make a good point. Is there any other feature that it could be correlated with?

For example, a race with light sensitivity could have it, or whose habitat is exclusively nocturnal or underground. Those with darkvision that extends further than the standard 60 foot range. Undead and outsiders, too. Any others?

I know it is a kind of homebrew question to try to fix the issue you raise, but it is still worth asking.

I'm fine with any race that's subterranean (e.g. dwarves, dark elves, etc) having it. I'm also fine with any race that's nocturnal having it (e.g. most goblinoids & monstrous humanoids, a lot of which come with light sensitivity built in).

I've never been fond of it being a default ability of all outsiders. Like... why the heck does a lantern archon need darkvision? That's like sticking gills on a fire elemental :p I think it should be case by case just like humanoids. Most of the outer planes are well lit.

Hybrid races I think should look to the parent races. If a human has normal vision, and a cat has lowlight vision, an anthropomorphic cat should only have lowlight vision (regardless of whether or not it's nocturnal). In similar fashion, I'm okay with half-orcs having darkvision... it makes sense (since orcs have it).