MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

[Crusher]

As an additional point, its worth noting that the version of the Athasian Nightmare Beast I posted looks like a homebrew, but its actually canon (or semi-canon). The original poster was a WotC employee soliciting community feedback on a formal updated version of the monster s/he was developing was for an in-development Dark Suns monster manual-type book. Looks like it never made the cut into the actual book, but it was fully stat-ed out.

[Silver Swift]

As an additional point, its worth noting that the version of the Athasian Nightmare Beast I posted looks like a homebrew, but its actually canon (or semi-canon). The original poster was a WotC employee soliciting community feedback on a formal updated version of the monster s/he was developing was for an in-development Dark Suns monster manual-type book. Looks like it never made the cut into the actual book, but it was fully stat-ed out.

It looks like it is from 2005 though, so unless Rich would have had access to it before that post was made it doesn't fit the time line. Interesting approach though, would these sorts of qualify for the MitD if we found one from before 2004 or does it qualify as homebrew if it was never officially published?

And if it is homebrew, does the fact that it was written by a WotC employee make it sufficiently high profile that we would still consider it a candidate?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

It looks like it is from 2005 though, so unless Rich would have had access to it before that post was made it doesn't fit the time line. Interesting approach though, would these sorts of qualify for the MitD if we found one from before 2004 or does it qualify as homebrew if it was never officially published?

And if it is homebrew, does the fact that it was written by a WotC employee make it sufficiently high profile that we would still consider it a candidate?

This thread admits homebrew published before MitD even if it is not from a WotC employee. The fact that this guy may know Rich personally may make it slightly more likely as a proposal (and even allows for some fudging on the published date - maybe he sent it to Rich for alpha testing before posting it publicly for beta testing?), nothing more.

Grey Wolf

[DaggerPen]

I find myself really liking this proposal. The two main problems I see with it are:

1. Timing issues - it's possible that Rich may have heard of this version from earlier, but it still seems like a stretch.
2. DR/magic - Miko and very probably Belkar have magic weapons, yes? AC 22 is a bit low for that to work, though the DR of 5 over nothing with biofeedback does help, and I donno if 202 is enough of a hitpoint mass for MitD to just not feel it. And even if we go with the original DR/metal and magic as it would have been sent to Rich in this hypothetical situation, that also applies to Miko's and Belkar's weapons.

[Stray]

I'd have to dig up the correct comic, but I believe that the way the amulet is described to work is that it targets every unupdated mosnter at once - Dorukan didn't have to use it on individual mosnter, one at a time. He "turned it on" and they were all compelled to it.

GW

In this comic Nale says that the talisman was used to lure the monsters into the dungeon and that it gives control over all not updated monsters. He does not explain exact mechanics or limitations (for example range) of the talisman, so we really can't know if it could miss MitD, if he could resist it's power, or if (throwing random ideas here) being unaware that he wasn't updated would protect him.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

In this comic Nale says that the talisman was used to lure the monsters into the dungeon and that it gives control over all not updated monsters. He does not explain exact mechanics or limitations (for example range) of the talisman, so we really can't know if it could miss MitD, if he could resist it's power, or if (throwing random ideas here) being unaware that he wasn't updated would protect him.

Indeed, which makes the idea that MitD might be the only one of his species to resist the amulet quite unsupported. It is not impossible, but it would be the kind of detail I would expect Rich would have to reveal as a clue before it became plausible enough to make it acceptable to this thread as a general interpretation.

Which is not to say, as always, that attached to the right creature it wouldn't work.

Grey Wolf

[Steven]

I think that we should treat the amulet as simply grabbing ALL of the un-updated monsters unless we're given a good reason to think otherwise. There is no reason to think that Dorukan was wandering around all over the place rounding them up instead of guarding his gate. We also know that the monsters lack any kind of will save so it would be fairly trivial to compel them.

[Irish Musician]

I don't know if it means anything, but the eyes of the sand monster have the same "look" (pardon the pun) as the MitD's eyes when it dies? I know Rich usually makes his eyes with one slightly larger and one slightly smaller anyway......but I thought I would bring it up anyway just in case it mattered.

[Tev]

It's standard creature eye design, look at dragon mom for example. Or Leaky in bear form.

[gooddragon1]

New possible information: Belkar can overcome the DR of a vampire with enough damage. The creature being dealt with may have more DR than a vampire.

[Throknor]

New possible information: Belkar can overcome the DR of a vampire with enough damage. The creature being dealt with may have more DR than a vampire.

Devil's advocate: Durkon didn't really react. It's possible MITD has been damaged but didn't really care for whatever reason. Note that Durkon's fast healing healed the wound to the chin through the beard almost immediately; if MITD has something similar it might take a lot for him to notice.

[gooddragon1]

Devil's advocate: Durkon didn't really react. It's possible MITD has been damaged but didn't really care for whatever reason. Note that Durkon's fast healing healed the wound to the chin through the beard almost immediately; if MITD has something similar it might take a lot for him to notice.

I like the point, but I hate the term devil's advocate. I'm neutral good :P.

[Olinser]

You know, I noticed this a minute ago, but I'm not really sure what conclusion I can draw from it.

In the most recent comic, HERE, in panel 8, the elemental's eyes look EXACTLY like the MiTD usually are pictured.

Looking back, the Titanium Elementals have exactly the same eyes when they are being dismissed.

[pikachu314]

Hi

I registered just to add this piece of information to the discussion. See here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html

MitD seems to know, at some level, that it can make people "escape" at will. It even seems... surprised by the fact that it wasn't working.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Hi

I registered just to add this piece of information to the discussion. See here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html

MitD seems to know, at some level, that it can make people "escape" at will. It even seems... surprised by the fact that it wasn't working.

Yes, we are aware. Word of Rich is that the Escape awoke powers he didn't know he had. He is surprised it is not working either because the goblin already is amongst friends, or because MitD needs to figure out how to tap his powers when not in emotional distress.

Grey Wolf

[Kish]

Yes, we are aware. Word of Rich is that the Escape awoke powers he didn't know he had. He is surprised it is not working either because the goblin already is amongst friends, or because MitD needs to figure out how to tap his powers when not in emotional distress.

Grey Wolf

pikachu314 didn't link to the strip where the creature in the darkness was trying to teleport the hobgoblin away. S/he linked to the "Why didn't Mr. Stiffly get away from the acid-breathing shark trap, I was wishing really hard?" strip.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

pikachu314 didn't link to the strip where the creature in the darkness was trying to teleport the hobgoblin away. S/he linked to the "Why didn't Mr. Stiffly get away from the acid-breathing shark trap, I was wishing really hard?" strip.

Oh, that one. Sorry 'bout that.

Yes, that is the leading reason to think MitD may have access to some kind of wish-ability. Or he is just being his usual Cloudcuckoolander.

Grey Wolf

[pikachu314]

pikachu314 didn't link to the strip where the creature in the darkness was trying to teleport the hobgoblin away. S/he linked to the "Why didn't Mr. Stiffly get away from the acid-breathing shark trap, I was wishing really hard?" strip.

Yes, I apologize for not being clear enough. I wanted to draw attention to the fact that it "knew" of its powers before actually displaying them. I had not seen that discussed in the topic before, so I found it useful to post here.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes, I apologize for not being clear enough. I wanted to draw attention to the fact that it "knew" of its powers before actually displaying them.

It is open to that interpretation, certainly, but the author has actually clarified that MitD wasn't aware of his powers before he used them, which weakens that particular argument somewhat. YMMV and all that.

GW

[Kish]

Previous discussions on the subject have suggested two theories for what the problem was, when he wanted his friend to get away from being tortured by Xykon Either he didn't genuinely understand how bad O-Chul's situation was and truly want his friend to leave until Xykon was about to kill him...

...or, his wishes for Mr. Stiffly to get away were sincere, magically powered, and thwarted by the fact that there's no such person as Mr. Stiffly; it finally worked when he finally started calling him O-Chul.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Previous discussions on the subject have suggested two theories for what the problem was, when he wanted his friend to get away from being tortured by Xykon Either he didn't genuinely understand how bad O-Chul's situation was and truly want his friend to leave until Xykon was about to kill him...

...or, his wishes for Mr. Stiffly to get away were sincere, magically powered, and thwarted by the fact that there's no such person as Mr. Stiffly; it finally worked when he finally started calling him O-Chul.

I would also add that it could be just Rule of Funny. MitD words and reality don't always match 1:1, and thus he is usually source for punchlines, as is this case. On the other hand, nothing stops a punchline from also being a clue.

GW

[Snails]

You know, I noticed this a minute ago, but I'm not really sure what conclusion I can draw from it.

In the most recent comic, HERE, in panel 8, the elemental's eyes look EXACTLY like the MiTD usually are pictured.

Looking back, the Titanium Elementals have exactly the same eyes when they are being dismissed.

A nice catch, but it is easy to explain away.

The elementals eyes are presumably wide-eyed and "surprised" as the sensation of being killed is new experience. Notice that Belkar's eyes seem similar in that same panel.

The MitD is an "innocent", so wide-eyed "surprised" eyes all the time is perfectly reasonable.

[Steven]

Or it could be that those eyes are the default for elementals but when they've been summoned and ordered to attack they get their game face on.

[ReaderAt2046]

...or, his wishes for Mr. Stiffly to get away were sincere, magically powered, and thwarted by the fact that there's no such person as Mr. Stiffly; it finally worked when he finally started calling him O-Chul.

Say, that's a thought. Could MITD's powers be some variant of Truenaming? I don't know very much about how truespeak works but someone described it as "directly rewriting the universe", which sounds about right. I also heard that it's the basis of the Power Word spells. Thoughts from someone who knows about truenaming?

[rweird]

Say, that's a thought. Could MITD's powers be some variant of Truenaming? I don't know very much about how truespeak works but someone described it as "directly rewriting the universe", which sounds about right. I also heard that it's the basis of the Power Word spells. Thoughts from someone who knows about truenaming?

Very few monsters exist with truenaming abilities, and I do not recall a method of truespeak to teleport people. I think it might just be identifying O-Chul (as O-Chul rather than Mr. Stiffy).

[Qwertystop]

Honestly, Trunaming is complete garbage as far as ability to do almost anything goes. And it gets worse the more powerful your enemies get - even if you're sticking to correct-CR enemies.

[littlebum2002]

Tongue in cheek here, but...

Since Rich said he didn't invent the MitD, does that mean we should eliminate all the D&D manuals he wrote?

[Qwertystop]

Tongue in cheek here, but...

Since Rich said he didn't invent the MitD, does that mean we should eliminate all the D&D manuals he wrote?

No, because he didn't write every single thing in any of them.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Tongue in cheek here, but...

Since Rich said he didn't invent the MitD, does that mean we should eliminate all the D&D manuals he wrote?

No, because what he said is that he didn't creat MitD for this story.

GW

[Tryfan]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before:

In SoD Xykon seems pretty confident that MitD is capable of defeating Redcloak easily but then in comic 376 states that the best way of ensuring Miko escapes is to let the MitD guard her. I guess this is probably rule of funny / Xykon has gained a better idea of how dangerous MitD is (musty styrofoam) but could it be anything more than this?

Also it's a little odd that Miko doesn't try to use smite evil on MitD, I'm guessing so Rich didn't have to reveal MitD's alignment even before O-Chul met him.