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  1. - Top - End - #961
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    I think it's implied that they move from petitioner to petitioner (probably getting renamed each time, unless there are just a lot of Roys dying at conveniently spaced intervals) until they've put in enough time to move up the archon hierarchy. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html
    Last edited by DaggerPen; 2013-12-05 at 05:28 PM.
    I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

    Tarquin's fatherly love is truly unique... or at least I hope it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
    Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!

  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bird View Post
    Still, if MitD pinged on his detect evil, I doubt O-Chul would call him good.
    We have no evidence that O-Chul ever used Detect Evil on or near the MitD.

    From a meta-story point of view, if O-Chul is, as often said, meant to represent "the right way to play a paladin", part of that would be eschewing the over-use of Detect Evil as an all-purpose radar to determine how you should be acting/treating people (the way Miko uses it). A well played paladin would use it, like an honest cop, only to test/confirm suspicions that are already solidly founded.
    "None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain

  3. - Top - End - #963
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by veti View Post
    We have no evidence that O-Chul ever used Detect Evil on or near the MitD.

    From a meta-story point of view, if O-Chul is, as often said, meant to represent "the right way to play a paladin", part of that would be eschewing the over-use of Detect Evil as an all-purpose radar to determine how you should be acting/treating people (the way Miko uses it). A well played paladin would use it, like an honest cop, only to test/confirm suspicions that are already solidly founded.
    Agreed. In fact, I would trust O-Chul's judgement of MitD's goodness all the more if he never used detect Evil, since there are all kinds of creatures (free-willed undead come to mind) who might be Good, but will continue to ping Evil for eternity.

    In another 'verse, even demons would potentially fall into that category - it is only Rich's words on the matter that makes me say that they (and angels, and the like) can't help but be of the alignment that spawned them. Which I am aware runs contrary to Rich's views on morality issues of everything else, but until the Quotes thread unearths a Rich quote saying that "that whole thing with the angels not being able to not live to their own expectations? Yeah, I was drunk that day, Ignore it", I think the only valid conclusion is that embodiments are indeed the exception to free-willed morality in the system -either because they cannot fail to do good/evil, or because whatever they do is, by definition, good/evil/law/etc (I suspect the first, but your guess is as good as mine).

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerPen View Post
    I think it's implied that they move from petitioner to petitioner (probably getting renamed each time, unless there are just a lot of Roys dying at conveniently spaced intervals) until they've put in enough time to move up the archon hierarchy. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html
    Fair enough, I had missed the "enough clueless petitioners" tidbit. Still, I think he is infused with the knowledge and drive as he gets assigned to each new person - Roy's Archon didn't have to study Roy in advance, everything he needed to know was gifted to him by the plane itself.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-12-05 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  4. - Top - End - #964
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Agreed. In fact, I would trust O-Chul's judgement of MitD's goodness all the more if he never used detect Evil, since there are all kinds of creatures (free-willed undead come to mind) who might be Good, but will continue to ping Evil for eternity.
    Not just that - there's also ways to fake an alignment (though usually it's "don't register as anything" instead of "register as something fake"*). Overall, Detect Alignment spells lose usefulness at high power because of that, so there's a good chance O-Chul wouldn't have bothered even if he did have reason to suspect MitD (which, admittedly, he might at first).

    *by RAW, there's no "not evil" as opposed to "no reading" like there is in the strip that introduced Belkar's lead sheet - it only detects evil alignments.
    Last edited by Qwertystop; 2013-12-05 at 07:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    It just occurred to me - with this talk about MitD stomping the ground and what powers it could have been - we've seen Earthquake used in-comic, and its effects don't match the stomp. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html
    I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

    Tarquin's fatherly love is truly unique... or at least I hope it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
    Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!

  6. - Top - End - #966
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerPen View Post
    It just occurred to me - with this talk about MitD stomping the ground and what powers it could have been - we've seen Earthquake used in-comic, and its effects don't match the stomp. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0827.html
    Earthquake does different things depending on where you cast it. Redcloak cast it underground, and the MitD was on the surface. But it's true that MitD's use doesn't really match Earthquake well.

  7. - Top - End - #967
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    Earthquake does different things depending on where you cast it. Redcloak cast it underground, and the MitD was on the surface. But it's true that MitD's use doesn't really match Earthquake well.
    Oh, does it? Okay, then yeah, that's not any more evidence against its usage than there already was.
    I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

    Tarquin's fatherly love is truly unique... or at least I hope it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
    Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!

  8. - Top - End - #968
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Sorry to double-post, but I just found this template. I can't tell if this is homebrew or not, but if it is, does anyone know more about potential age-decreasing templates like this? I know we frown on templates here, but one with a concrete guideline for lowering a creature's age seems like a reasonable one for candidates that are a size too large.
    I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

    Tarquin's fatherly love is truly unique... or at least I hope it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
    Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!

  9. - Top - End - #969
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerPen View Post
    Sorry to double-post, but I just found this template. I can't tell if this is homebrew or not, but if it is, does anyone know more about potential age-decreasing templates like this? I know we frown on templates here, but one with a concrete guideline for lowering a creature's age seems like a reasonable one for candidates that are a size too large.
    It isn't homebrewed, but it is Pathfinder (being on the PFSRD), and thusly was made after Rich decided what the MitD is… Unless D&D 3.5/3.0 also has some version of that template.

  10. - Top - End - #970
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Oh, shoot. I keep forgetting that Pathfinder came out after the MitD was created. I can't find any other Young templates, then.
    I am: Neutral Good: -2 chaos, -21 evil and 15 balance!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalek Kommander View Post
    Heartless? Those flaming letters spelled ELAN! How many sons can honestly say their father has murdered dozens of human beings just to show how much they care?

    Tarquin's fatherly love is truly unique... or at least I hope it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    First, I'm impressed that this topic went so far off topic that it ended up back at The Order of the Stick.
    Can't find the strip you're looking for? Head on over to OOTS Strip Summaries!

  11. - Top - End - #971
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Just pointing out (in case nobody else has) that in one of the first couple of posts, describing what we know, under appearance MitD is listed as having two eyes. Technically, we don't know if this is true, as it could have additional eyes further back in the darkness, which we cant see (and it cant use) as they aren't on the edge of the darkness.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  12. - Top - End - #972
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Just pointing out (in case nobody else has) that in one of the first couple of posts, describing what we know, under appearance MitD is listed as having two eyes. Technically, we don't know if this is true, as it could have additional eyes further back in the darkness, which we cant see (and it cant use) as they aren't on the edge of the darkness.
    Like my mathematic's teacher used to say "I have one eye" is a perfectly correct statement for someone that has two eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  13. - Top - End - #973
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Like my mathematic's teacher used to say "I have one eye" is a perfectly correct statement for someone that has two eyes.

    GW
    True, however the way it is phrased implies that it has ONLY two eyes. It may be strictly accurate, but its not the most clear way you could put it.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #974
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    True, however the way it is phrased implies that it has ONLY two eyes. It may be strictly accurate, but its not the most clear way you could put it.
    No, the way it is phrased indicates he is drawn with two, which is very accurate. Any extrapolations beyond that are not of my doing. I will not start adding disclaimers of the type "and there might be (x, y or z) in the shadows that we may never seen, because shadows." because there would be no end to it.

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    There is a world of imagination
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  15. - Top - End - #975
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    No, the way it is phrased indicates he is drawn with two, which is very accurate. Any extrapolations beyond that are not of my doing. I will not start adding disclaimers of the type "and there might be (x, y or z) in the shadows that we may never seen, because shadows." because there would be no end to it.

    Grey Wolf
    That is what the phrase "at least" is for. You do it with all the other body parts we know he has.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  16. - Top - End - #976
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    That is what the phrase "at least" is for. You do it with all the other body parts we know he has.
    No, I don't. I have used it only twice, once in the age section and once in the limbs section, in the rope analysis subsection. I have not said he has "at least" one tongue, nor "at least" one face, nor "at least" one drawing appendage, nor "at least" one set of teeth.

    I do not responde well to people that think they know what I have written better than I do, so I will cut this conversation short here.

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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    What if we are all focusing on the major part and most of them are just a setup to lure away potential candidates. Rich have shown that ability in many comics by now, where he always have a legit solution, but everything is not as it seems to be. One of the most major scene is when he tel-a-pork V and O'chul. What if he just have an item that could do that, preferable found along the way, and the reason he cant activate it again is that he cant really use it, it was just lucky or something.

    Prob this is wrong, but when we have had this poll/discussion over so many years and perhaps we need to look it "outside the box"

    I guess if we ignore one of the major scene the list goes up a bit, but nevermind.

    I want to pressent the demi god "Laogzed".
    pro:
    Huge strength, prob good resistance, not many knows Troglodyte "wanna be" gods, really ugly, Eats a lot, grows bigger, have feets, not normally in the forrest (more swamp or undergrown) Redcloak might know what he are. Troglodyte is allready used in Rich story,

    cons: A unlikley demi god and can't explain the teleport unless he have special abilities.

    Prob just nothing, but really curious what kind of monster he is.
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  18. - Top - End - #978
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    What if we are all focusing on the major part and most of them are just a setup to lure away potential candidates. Rich have shown that ability in many comics by now, where he always have a legit solution, but everything is not as it seems to be. One of the most major scene is when he tel-a-pork V and O'chul. What if he just have an item that could do that, preferable found along the way, and the reason he cant activate it again is that he cant really use it, it was just lucky or something.

    Prob this is wrong, but when we have had this poll/discussion over so many years and perhaps we need to look it "outside the box"

    I guess if we ignore one of the major scene the list goes up a bit, but nevermind.
    I think the he has an item idea is unlikely, seeing as the MitD has a tendency of breaking anything he's given. Him happening to have a ring of three wishes or something seems unlikely, though opens up the floodgate to a bunch of other things. He could be wearing a hat of disguise, so we can disregard appearance too, meaning we just need something strong, but with magic items he doesn't really need to be all that strong. I think that using magic items, I could make a decked out in magic items human commoner meet the FBS list. If we find a monster with an iconic item that goes with it that could meet one of the functions, then I'd understand, but just saying "Its a tarresque* with a ring of three wishes and a hat of disguise" doesn't cut it.

    *Can be replaced with pretty much any other commonly suggested monster.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    I want to pressent the demi god "Laogzed".
    pro:
    Huge strength, prob good resistance, not many knows Troglodyte "wanna be" gods, really ugly, Eats a lot, grows bigger, have feets, not normally in the forrest (more swamp or undergrown) Redcloak might know what he are. Troglodyte is allready used in Rich story,

    cons: A unlikley demi god and can't explain the teleport unless he have special abilities.

    Prob just nothing, but really curious what kind of monster he is.
    Con: As a god, is omni-lingual, not a surprise it can speak. As a god it is immune to mind-effecting.

    Does he have a stat-block somewhere?

  19. - Top - End - #979
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    What if we are all focusing on the major part and most of them are just a setup to lure away potential candidates. Rich have shown that ability in many comics by now, where he always have a legit solution, but everything is not as it seems to be. One of the most major scene is when he tel-a-pork V and O'chul. What if he just have an item that could do that, preferable found along the way, and the reason he cant activate it again is that he cant really use it, it was just lucky or something.

    Prob this is wrong, but when we have had this poll/discussion over so many years and perhaps we need to look it "outside the box"

    I guess if we ignore one of the major scene the list goes up a bit, but nevermind.

    I want to pressent the demi god "Laogzed".
    pro:
    Huge strength, prob good resistance, not many knows Troglodyte "wanna be" gods, really ugly, Eats a lot, grows bigger, have feets, not normally in the forrest (more swamp or undergrown) Redcloak might know what he are. Troglodyte is allready used in Rich story,

    cons: A unlikley demi god and can't explain the teleport unless he have special abilities.

    Prob just nothing, but really curious what kind of monster he is.
    The thing is, whether or not everything Rich shows of MITD is a direct clue, we have to assume it is, because otherwise we have no evidence at all. If we allow the free use of templates, magic items, and homebrew abilities, a potted plant could do everything MITD has done so far (the forum went ahead and put the build together last time this came up). In addition to probably violating the "figure it out" clause, this renders this thread pointless, because if you ignore one piece of evidence on these grounds, you ignore all of them.

    Also, remember that we won't be told when we guess it. Say MITD is a Protean. That one's been on the thread for a long time now, and the case for it is pretty solid, but there's no way to be sure except Rich posting himself and telling us what it is, or the in-comic reveal. This means that we may have already solved the mystery, and simply don't yet know it.
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by AeonQuasar View Post
    ... One of the most major scene is when he tel-a-pork V and O'chul. What if he just have an item that could do that, preferable found along the way, and the reason he cant activate it again is that he cant really use it, it was just lucky ...
    In the commentary the Giant specifically described the Escape as the MITD reaching inside himself and using a power he didn't know he was capable of. It is unlikely to the extreme that he meant some item.

  21. - Top - End - #981
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Throknor View Post
    In the commentary the Giant specifically described the Escape as the MITD reaching inside himself and using a power he didn't know he was capable of. It is unlikely to the extreme that he meant some item.
    Correct, with one caveat: I can see an argument made if the item is a conduit for the power - so a ring of three wishes no, but if he is using a spell with a material component, he may have had said material component in some pocket all this time.

    (I made a similar argument to explain the carb-amorph's use of the teraport)

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2014-01-10 at 03:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Throknor View Post
    In the commentary the Giant specifically described the Escape as the MITD reaching inside himself and using a power he didn't know he was capable of. It is unlikely to the extreme that he meant some item.
    Similar to how Schlock reaches inside of himself for a plasgun perhaps?

    But no, seriously, if that wasn't his innate magical power then it would be one of the most anticlimactic scenes. The whole point is to set up that MitD finally cares enough about something/someone that he is able to access his innate magical powers and actually do something, if it turns out he just had a ring of three wishes then a lot of the power of the scene is taken away. I think the odds are less than 1% that it was anything but an innate ability.
    Last edited by Kornaki; 2014-01-10 at 03:36 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Even monsters (like dragons) that cast prepare and cast spells don't seem to use material components the way wizards do. Spell-like abilities - the most likely description for whatever the MitD did - definitely don't. So I doubt even that caveat is necessary.

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    Even monsters (like dragons) that cast prepare and cast spells don't seem to use material components the way wizards do.
    By D&D rules, they would, any OoTSverse counterexample?

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    I think that the pieces on the Go board also help support the "two eyes" theory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    You are presuming that Ridureyu is trying to be a troll.

    I tend to think of him more as a Performance Artist, myself.

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridureyu View Post
    I think that the pieces on the Go board also help support the "two eyes" theory.
    How do pieces on a game board tell us anything about the number of eyes of the players?

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    The pieces on the board were meant to be a huge hint about the mitD's identity. The two open spots look like eyes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Porthos View Post
    You are presuming that Ridureyu is trying to be a troll.

    I tend to think of him more as a Performance Artist, myself.

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    Even monsters (like dragons) that cast prepare and cast spells don't seem to use material components the way wizards do. Spell-like abilities - the most likely description for whatever the MitD did - definitely don't. So I doubt even that caveat is necessary.
    I know, but you know me. I like to iron-clad arguments. Yes, AFAIK monsters don't need or use components, but some of the proposals do. There are other issues with that approach - like time for studying the spells - but I wouldn't use the "where would he get the bat guano from, anyway?" as one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridureyu View Post
    The pieces on the board were meant to be a huge hint about the mitD's identity. The two open spots look like eyes.
    Paraidolia is not to be trusted. In-comic, the only reference to them are that they represent MitD's mind and soul. Out-of-comic, the title of the strip is "two eyes in the dark" but relying on that for evidence is shaky indeed.

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    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2014-01-10 at 05:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ridureyu View Post
    The pieces on the board were meant to be a huge hint about the mitD's identity. The two open spots look like eyes.
    ...Have you played Go? Open space enclosed by pieces are, in fact, called "eyes". The fact that they look like eyes is a known thing, and showing them is unavoidable if you're showing any game of Go that's gone on for a reasonable amount of turns.

    Also, among the people who think it looks like something, I don't think any two people have agreed on what that thing is.

    Also, the fact that MitD has two eyes isn't exactly a big reveal.
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieth View Post
    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: MitD 007: GoldenEyes (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I know, but you know me. I like to iron-clad arguments. Yes, AFAIK monsters don't need or use components, but some of the proposals do. There are other issues with that approach - like time for studying the spells - but I wouldn't use the "were would he get the bat guano from, anyway?" as one of them.
    The whether monsters need components is a semi-complicated question for people new to D&D.

    The divide is SLAs/Su abilities, and casting. Casting requires material components and foci in almost all cases (a few monsters are specifically called out to not need foci/material components), while SLAs and Su abilities by default don't (they are called out to never need them in the description, but I wouldn't swear there aren't one or two out there somewhere which do).

    For example, a Trumpet Archon would need forked metal rods as a focus for Plane Shift, because it casts that spell like a cleric, but wouldn't need 50 GP of powdered ruby for its Continual Flame SLA, because it is a spell-like ability.

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