Pathfinder Grab Bag Competition Chat Thread II: New Thread smell included!

[Razanir]

As promised, the Childhood Companion is up and roarin'!

Notes on it:
1. That's the third or fourth layout... still doesn't format right for me, but whatever.
2. Critiques and more ideas would be great!
3. You have no flipping idea how long it took to track that image back to the original owner/creator so I could give credit for it. Seriously.

Now what would happen if you were a Synthesist Summoner? Could you turn yourself into a princess's teddy bear to infiltrate the castle?

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I just want to let everyone know that I'm currently throwing together a one shot game for a friend of a friend's birthday party on Saturday, so until I'm finished, I need to concentrate on that.

I want to deeply apologize that I not only need to re-do the trophies from two months ago, but that I also need to be sending out the trophies for last month as well. This is also combined with the current state of the past entries archive (which I recently learned is completely borked in the coding) and a few other hiccups here and there. These are not the standards that I hold myself to as the patron, adjudicator, referee and custodian of this contest and I know that I have given a much better performance in my duties in the past.

I will strive to do better from this point forward and I hope that the contest does not suffer further or lose more competitors because of my mistakes and blunders.

[SamBurke]

1. I'll look over the layout and see if I have any suggestions.
2. I might have to refrain from critique on this...part of it is VERY similar to my idea, though luckily in a different light. Mine and yours would play nicely, at least. I'm looking at throwing in a few monsters.
3. Giving the original owner credit does not mean you have permission to use the image. Generally from what I've seen, confirmation from the artist is needed for this. I may have something for you however. I once did an art series on the homebrew I'm making...the inspiration for it...and it might be something you'd like.

1. OK, thanks@
2. Can't wait to see it! Someone *cough cough*not me*cough cough* should set up a Playtest game for this thread.... 'twould be epic.
3. Oh...? I did not know that... Just checked the page, and I couldn't seem to find any way to contact the original illustrator (who speaks russian anyway...). Which means all that work in finding it would be...

What's that you say? An illustration?

FROM

YOU?

DRAWN BY YOU?

All my yes. Thanks a googol!

Now what would happen if you were a Synthesist Summoner? Could you turn yourself into a princess's teddy bear to infiltrate the castle?

I'm considering including a note saying that while in that form, it's inanimate, but the idea of a teddybear sneaking into a castle before transforming into an eight-armed power-attacking Huge-greatsword wielding superkillah is just too awesome to say no to...

*Snips*

No worries at all, bro... RL has kicked me to the curb waaaaay too many times for me to criticize you at all. In fact, this community has grown nicely since I came on just a few months ago, so no worries at all.

[Razanir]

I'm considering including a note saying that while in that form, it's inanimate, but the idea of a teddybear sneaking into a castle before transforming into an eight-armed power-attacking Huge-greatsword wielding superkillah is just too awesome to say no to...

Maybe word it "the eidolon has no move speed." To me, inanimate implies non-sentient. But yeah, it is too awesome, the concept of turning into a teddy bear to infiltrate a castle. It totally makes up for being forced into a dress for a tea party.

Oh, and does my entry look interesting enough so far, or could it use a few more abilities? And before you ask about the high HP: I designed it to be at a slightly higher CR, but ran it through Vorpal Tribble's calculator and it only came out at CR 4.

[SamBurke]

Maybe word it "the eidolon has no move speed." To me, inanimate implies non-sentient. But yeah, it is too awesome, the concept of turning into a teddy bear to infiltrate a castle. It totally makes up for being forced into a dress for a tea party.

Oh, and does my entry look interesting enough so far, or could it use a few more abilities? And before you ask about the high HP: I designed it to be at a slightly higher CR, but ran it through Vorpal Tribble's calculator and it only came out at CR 4.

Decided to make it a general fix for everything, since Hobbes always seems to just flop down...

As to the Turtledove, I really love the thematics of it... very cool, and pro points for using the original (if gruesome) version of Cinderella. My problem is just... not sure how I would use it in an encounter from a DM standpoint. What ways were you envisioning?

[gr8artist]

So, before I go to the trouble of typing this up, here's my current idea. If you guys like it, I'll finish it out, but I'm not a hundred percent sure on it yet.

Big Bad
Creature template, usually applied to wolves, but works for any carnivore.
It's an acquired template, gained from extended exposure to either hunger or dark magic... maybe both.
Gains intelligence and languages, and enough cunning to pretend to be somebody's grandma... though not enough wisdom to think up good answers to annoying anatomy questions.
Gains swallow whole as a Supernatural ability, and Regeneration while someone's in its belly.
DR X/slashing (that woodsman's axe...)
Huff 'n Puff, a Supernatural breath attack that creates powerful gusts of wind... used to knock down fragile buildings. Any idea what spell to use for reference? or should I just use wind strength from environmental rules?
I'm trying to think of other tales with a villainous canis lupus, but so far I'm stuck at 3 Little Pigs and Red Ridin' Hood.

PF already has abilities to recreate the most famous wicked witches, but I'm debating Rumpelstiltskin after having watched "Once Upon a Time".
Oh, I'm also tossing around the idea of a demented Geppetto gone evil after the untimely death of his young Pinocchio. He would function like a summoner, but he'd have constructs, not outsiders.

[Razanir]

@Caledscratcher I'll be interested to see how the Cootie Catcher turns out. I seriously would have more expected someone to make a Cootie as the most vicious monster out there.

@SamBurke I'm not quite sure yet how I'd use the Turtledove. It seems more a thematic monster, for dealing with pesky stepsister-like PCs. I think I'll add bonus damage to blinded foes to make it a bigger threat.

[SamBurke]

So, before I go to the trouble of typing this up, here's my current idea. If you guys like it, I'll finish it out, but I'm not a hundred percent sure on it yet.

Big Bad
Creature template, usually applied to wolves, but works for any carnivore.
It's an acquired template, gained from extended exposure to either hunger or dark magic... maybe both.
Gains intelligence and languages, and enough cunning to pretend to be somebody's grandma... though not enough wisdom to think up good answers to annoying anatomy questions.
Gains swallow whole as a Supernatural ability, and Regeneration while someone's in its belly.
DR X/slashing (that woodsman's axe...)
Huff 'n Puff, a Supernatural breath attack that creates powerful gusts of wind... used to knock down fragile buildings. Any idea what spell to use for reference? or should I just use wind strength from environmental rules?
I'm trying to think of other tales with a villainous canis lupus, but so far I'm stuck at 3 Little Pigs and Red Ridin' Hood.

PF already has abilities to recreate the most famous wicked witches, but I'm debating Rumpelstiltskin after having watched "Once Upon a Time".
Oh, I'm also tossing around the idea of a demented Geppetto gone evil after the untimely death of his young Pinocchio. He would function like a summoner, but he'd have constructs, not outsiders.

This is a cool idea, bro... I'd look into werewolf stories and things like that.

Notes on the Cootie Catcher:
-This is very, very, professionally formatted. You have a whooooole lot of my support with that right there, good friend. I have to admit, the format colours 90% of my view about a class...

-I like the way it's set up... it's got an innocent name, but it certainly is grown up.

-The morality/methodism thing seems like it'd take a lot of time to set up: you make a single attack on that turn, but it takes a good three to four rolls to get to the final result. I know how unbelievably tempting it is to create a much more interesting and nuanced mechanic by adding rolls, but... resist the urges, man! We two should start a support group for it...

-That said, the mechanic is friggin' brilliant, nothing less. I'd like to see a little fluff to explain, but the way it scales is nice, and there's some control but a little bit of randomness, so on so forth. I could see some people objecting to how random it is, but Free Will fixes that at the very next level.

-It seems like the Temporary HP is worth much less, and scales more poorly, than the rest of the abilities. Perhaps you get twice as much from the results of the roll as the others?

-The Disease Resistance comes rather late... most characters get total immunity really early, and it's not that important then, either.

-Choice. I have a personal soapbox about choice, and you did it in true Pathfinder style: Choose a general group of possible selections, then regular abilities picked from that. Now, you did set up a locked progression for any given infector, but it's good.

-Not sure what Lord of the Infection would look like practically, from a PC perspective. I mean, it makes sense that they would infect others, but... it doesn't have much strategic value. I suppose Tippy could make use of it somehow or other, but IMO, a capstone should be FRIGGIN EPIC. Plus, the bar is higher, considering it has to top off this class.

-Can't wait to see more infection types! You may need to boost some of the abilities in there (the damage from the eyebeams is a bit low, and you gain True Seeing 6 levels after everyone else...) It seems like those types may solve the next thing I thought about:

-What does this class do? What's its focus, I mean? Some of the abilities go towards DPS ("Brutality" and "Savagery", for example), but others (Spell points, say) could be for mages or Tanking (Pretty much the rest of the Cootie-Catching List). If it's meant to have just a little bit of everything, it does that well... I just feel like the class would be a bit tighter if it focused on something.

-One tiiiiiiiny nitpick on the fluff. You mention "Fortune", but I'm not clear on how Cooties tie together with fate and all that. If you could just put in a little bit to help there, I'd be grateful!

Overall, it is a fantastic class, and I'm glad to see someone look into the glory of new class systems, and multi-post entries.

[caledscratcher]

@SamBurke: Oh, uh, wow, thank you so much! I didn't expect such positive feedback! I guess I'll try to go in order...

-This is very, very, professionally formatted. You have a whooooole lot of my support with that right there, good friend. I have to admit, the format colours 90% of my view about a class...

I very much judge a class by its formatting, as well. I believe that a great class with broken tables and poor spelling automatically goes from "great" "subpar at best".

-I like the way it's set up... it's got an innocent name, but it certainly is grown up.

Hehe, yeah, I had thought about what I could do, and didn't feel like using a teddy bear or imaginary friend (as such concepts were already taken, and also because I see them as the stereotypical associations with childhood). And, given that (at least in my 2nd grade class) cooties were the most horrendously vile disease known to humankind, I figured aberrations would fit well.

-The morality/methodism thing seems like it'd take a lot of time to set up: you make a single attack on that turn, but it takes a good three to four rolls to get to the final result. I know how unbelievably tempting it is to create a much more interesting and nuanced mechanic by adding rolls, but... resist the urges, man! We two should start a support group for it...

Hm... yeah, the thing about it was that it was supposed to emulate those little origami-type toys that kids would always make, where you would be asked for a number and a color and some other thing, resulting in it being shifted a certain number of times for a certain result. My reasoning for using it? I always heard it called a "cootie catcher". (Which, in retrospect, was probably an insulting name made up by boys because the girls in my class always made them about who they'd wind up dating...)

-That said, the mechanic is friggin' brilliant, nothing less. I'd like to see a little fluff to explain, but the way it scales is nice, and there's some control but a little bit of randomness, so on so forth. I could see some people objecting to how random it is, but Free Will fixes that at the very next level.

Heh, thanks! I figured that fluff would be needed, but the basic idea of how it's performed is that you flip around little things on your aberrant net for a couple seconds to provide someone with a fortune, which you can very well flip to a different one if you don't like the result.

-It seems like the Temporary HP is worth much less, and scales more poorly, than the rest of the abilities. Perhaps you get twice as much from the results of the roll as the others?

I thought I specified, but Temporary HP actually does give twice the normal bonus!

-The Disease Resistance comes rather late... most characters get total immunity really early, and it's not that important then, either.

Oh, huh. I wasn't really aware of that (or it slipped my mind, whichever), so I could probably slip it into a lower level. I had an idea for something(s) to put into opened-up spots.

-Choice. I have a personal soapbox about choice, and you did it in true Pathfinder style: Choose a general group of possible selections, then regular abilities picked from that. Now, you did set up a locked progression for any given infector, but it's good.

Hm... I had somewhat wanted it to be like the Sorcerer's bloodline, but with more abilities, accompanied by the standards of the class. Which I suppose makes it more like the Cavalier's order... oh well!

-Not sure what Lord of the Infection would look like practically, from a PC perspective. I mean, it makes sense that they would infect others, but... it doesn't have much strategic value. I suppose Tippy could make use of it somehow or other, but IMO, a capstone should be FRIGGIN EPIC. Plus, the bar is higher, considering it has to top off this class.

Yeah, I'm thinking I might make it so that if they fail both saves, they have to make another Will save when they gain the cootie catcher level, and if they fail, they automatically become one of your followers. If they only fail one, they have to make the save after taking two cootie catcher levels. (Succeeding on that save in either case forces you to reroll every additional cootie catcher level you take). And because it would be mind-affecting, creatures that probably wouldn't be able to be infected (undead, construct, etc.) actually can't.

-Can't wait to see more infection types! You may need to boost some of the abilities in there (the damage from the eyebeams is a bit low, and you gain True Seeing 6 levels after everyone else...) It seems like those types may solve the next thing I thought about:

Oh... I foolishly forgot to look up the spell level of true seeing, haha. I'll probably shift a couple things around and boost some numbers.

-What does this class do? What's its focus, I mean? Some of the abilities go towards DPS ("Brutality" and "Savagery", for example), but others (Spell points, say) could be for mages or Tanking (Pretty much the rest of the Cootie-Catching List). If it's meant to have just a little bit of everything, it does that well... I just feel like the class would be a bit tighter if it focused on something.

Well, thing is, they're supposed to be a buffer/debuffer in general, given that their cootie catch can't affect themself (crap, that wasn't clear enough, was it?). Anyways, they have a secondary focus of whatever the infection specializes in - so the blindheim would make them a battlefield controller/slight sneak attacker, herding foes with their eyebeams, then shutting them off and turning them back on once they were all in place for the bonus damage.

-One tiiiiiiiny nitpick on the fluff. You mention "Fortune", but I'm not clear on how Cooties tie together with fate and all that. If you could just put in a little bit to help there, I'd be grateful!

As I mentioned, the fortune thing relates to the "cootie catcher" origami fortune-teller toy things. Free Will relates to the common occurence of the person who was telling the fortune with the catcher peeking at the result, getting mad, and flipping a different one.

Overall, it is a fantastic class, and I'm glad to see someone look into the glory of new class systems, and multi-post entries.

Haha, thank you so much! I didn't think it would be this good, given that it's the first fully-complete base class I've posted on this fora (or any other) in... pretty much ever! I've started some others, and I really liked the ideas, but I'd always get distracted.

Oh, and before I forget, I was contemplating making it so that each infection would have an additional feature (or two) that modifies Cootie Catch. So, a blindheim cootie catcher could get the option to forgo the focus result (at the cost of Free Will) to instead either blind for Xd3 rounds (X being the penalty modifier), or reduce the duration of a blinding effect by Yd4 rounds (Y being the bonus modifier). Just a thought.

[gr8artist]

My submission, the Big Bad Creature, is up, along with a sample CR 3 Big Bad Wolf. I will likely add another sample creature with 10 or more HD, because the template improves for stronger creatures.
Does anyone have a specific animal/magical beast that they'd like to see made as a big bad <blank>?

I wil try to review other submissions this weekend, hopefully.

[Razanir]

My submission, the Big Bad Creature, is up, along with a sample CR 3 Big Bad Wolf. I will likely add another sample creature with 10 or more HD, because the template improves for stronger creatures.
Does anyone have a specific animal/magical beast that they'd like to see made as a big bad <blank>?

I wil try to review other submissions this weekend, hopefully.

A Big Bag Tyrannosaurus? Also, it's not 10+ HD, but a Big Bad Cat would be pretty funny.

[Thunderfist12]

What about a 10-HD big bad dire wolf?

[Razanir]

What about a 10-HD big bad dire wolf?

But cats! Those things are lethal already! Maybe THAT'S why Mr. Scruffy's so good at killing. Maybe Mr. Scruffy was a Big Bad Cat before the template even existed.

[Tanuki Tales]

Mr. Scruffy is a killer because of the old joke of a cat in 3.5 being better statted than a level 1 commoner.

Anyways, if you haven't voted for last month's contest, please do. I've got Otakon the next three days so my attention will be away from the net in general till next week.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Mr. Scruffy is a killer because of the old joke of a cat in 3.5 being better statted than a level 1 commoner.

Anyways, if you haven't voted for last month's contest, please do. I've got Otakon the next three days so my attention will be away from the net in general till next week.

Have fun! I miss being on staff for that Con. Maybe someday I'll have the time to return!

[gr8artist]

My reviews so far...

Turtledove

Spoiler

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• HP should be 8d10-24, so 20
• There is no listed duration for the blind effect. Also, fluff-wise, wouldn't it require 2 successful attacks to blind? (One per eye).
• The creature deals 1 nonlethal damage per attack, with a huge attack bonus. But that's not dangerous enough for a CR 4. Might I recommend adding Sneak Attack (1d6) for damage, and it would work well with blinding.
• Can't creatures tiny size or smaller use their dex for attack rolls naturally? You could swap weapon finesse out for something else.
• That fort save has a really high DC for that CR. Which is OK, since it's pretty much the creature's only challenging factor.

Overall: It's interesting, and I like the simplicity, but it's not really a challenge, especially at a CR 4. It blinds the entire party... then what?

Childhood Companion

Spoiler

Show

It took me a while to realize that this creature didn't replace the companion gained by another class, but just provided additional options. So, a summoner's Eidolon could be a GC, just as a wizard's familiar could. So, in essence, these are custom feats that anyone with a companion/eidolon/familiar/mount could take.

• My right hand creature seems a little weak. Most such bonuses are trivial, and hardly worth a feat investment to double them, especially for 1 round. Perhaps if it lasted all day?
• Help in time of need seems to have little to no effect. The DC to succeed is 10, so auto-success is hardly worth a feat. And can't companions use aid another naturally, especially if they have intelligence or some-such?
• Does Watcher need a better description of "hostile intent"? What about pickpockets and thieves? What about guards while you're breaking the law? What about mindless creatures?
• Variable bonuses with permanent duration make me nervous. Currently, Hit Dice are the only permanent stat we roll for, so the 1d8 Int bonus from of the same mind seems weird.
• Is it "Guardian Companion" or "Childhood Companion"? I'm a little unsure.

Overall: I like it, and I'd like to see more done with it. Currently, it seems fairly minor, except for the intelligence bonuses, swift eidolon calling, and fear immunity. More options would be superb, as well as some qualities that the companion would always have, something to make this a modification to a class or class feature, not just a feat list. Perhaps granting the companion certain bonuses based on the PC's level, as opposed to the creature's? or based on the number of aspects possessed.

[SamBurke]

Childhood Companion
[SPOILER]It took me a while to realize that this creature didn't replace the companion gained by another class, but just provided additional options. So, a summoner's Eidolon could be a GC, just as a wizard's familiar could. So, in essence, these are custom feats that anyone with a companion/eidolon/familiar/mount could take.

• My right hand creature seems a little weak. Most such bonuses are trivial, and hardly worth a feat investment to double them, especially for 1 round. Perhaps if it lasted all day?
• Help in time of need seems to have little to no effect. The DC to succeed is 10, so auto-success is hardly worth a feat. And can't companions use aid another naturally, especially if they have intelligence or some-such?
• Does Watcher need a better description of "hostile intent"? What about pickpockets and thieves? What about guards while you're breaking the law? What about mindless creatures?
• Variable bonuses with permanent duration make me nervous. Currently, Hit Dice are the only permanent stat we roll for, so the 1d8 Int bonus from of the same mind seems weird.
• Is it "Guardian Companion" or "Childhood Companion"? I'm a little unsure.

Overall: I like it, and I'd like to see more done with it. Currently, it seems fairly minor, except for the intelligence bonuses, swift eidolon calling, and fear immunity. More options would be superb, as well as some qualities that the companion would always have, something to make this a modification to a class or class feature, not just a feat list. Perhaps granting the companion certain bonuses based on the PC's level, as opposed to the creature's? or based on the number of aspects possessed.

Thanks for the review!
-Fixed the variable bonus to be a minimum of +3, so it could make a really smart creature, but will always make your companion fairly normal in mind. I'm thinking about the level of Hobbes: sometimes smart, sometimes less so.

-Sorry that it took a while for that to be clear. But, that was the thing I was shooting for: since this was going to add to a half a dozen different classes, I had to make sure it could fit for all of them.

-I altered "My Right Hand" to be usable as often as you like per day. The idea is to give a situational sort of thing that you could use *instead* of an AoO. For example, if you wanted to make your entire turn interrupt whoever was going, then you could double your Initiative bonus (from, say, the Scorpion). Or, if you were targeted by a spell, double the bonus from your Fox, and get +2 to Reflex. That's just the general idea.

-Hm... Fair point. I've edited it to give you a skill bonus equal to 1/4 your level a number of times per day equal to your modifying stat.

-I've edited in a better description of what "Hostile Intent" is for Watcher. Hostile intent is any creature that intends to cause you physical harm or debilitation, even if it is technically "mindless." In my opinion, this ability is pretty powerful, indeed, as it negates almost all stealth near you, even if it gives no bonuses to hitting things.

-Your companion is called a "Guardian", but you take the Childhood Companion archetype. This is further confused by the fact that the archetype presumes you've had that same companion since childhood... My apologies.

-About new abilities: I wanted to add more myself, but the problem I run into is how to scale something so that both Eidolons AND Familiars can make use of it. Don't wanna give a bunch of options only to them. I could grant a stat bonus, I suppose... Hm. I'll add a few new Aspects.

-Thanks for the review! Glad to polish it up and make it a little bit better.

[Tanuki Tales]

Convention's officially over, so I'm back. I'll be jumping on the trophies and everything else in the next few days.

On a serious note, can everyone please go vote?

[SamBurke]

Convention's officially over, so I'm back. I'll be jumping on the trophies and everything else in the next few days.

On a serious note, can everyone please go vote?

I already have. But, I do agree that since there were sooooo many entries last month, everyone needs to vote.

[Tanuki Tales]

Ok...

Hopefully you all can help me assure myself that I'm not losing my mind. Did I, or did I not, send out trophies for contest sixteen "Once More; with Feeling!"?

[SamBurke]

Ok...

Hopefully you all can help me assure myself that I'm not losing my mind. Did I, or did I not, send out trophies for contest sixteen "Once More; with Feeling!"?

What was the theme for that?

[Tanuki Tales]

What was the theme for that?

It was a second helping of "Origins of Species". So primeval and evolution junk.

[SamBurke]

It was a second helping of "Origins of Species". So primeval and evolution junk.

Sorry, then... I don't know if I can help.

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry, then... I don't know if I can help.

Because I need to figure out if I sent out a bad batch of trophies or if I simply mislabeled a folder on my computer where I keep all the trophies saved.

[Tanuki Tales]

Alright.

Looking at my sent box and my computer, it looks like I simply mislabeled my folders and did not, in fact, send out incorrect trophies.

But I could have deleted the sent messages for Once More; With Feeling! to make space, so could someone who placed in that contest please let me know if they got a trophy for it?

And guys, please vote if you haven't. I'm going to extend voting because we just had too many good entries to let it end like it would.

[3WhiteFox3]

So my Wild Child archetype is up and I'd be grateful for anyone's thoughts about it. I'm open to whatever constructive criticism anyone might have and what they think about the theme, abilities, balance, etc...

[Tanuki Tales]

Sorry all, haven't really been in the house the last few days.

I'll go close up last month's voting thread in a wee bit.

But can someone please tell me if they got trophies for June's contest? This is really driving me nuts.

[gr8artist]

I haven't received anything, but i dont think i won anything that time.

[Tanuki Tales]

I haven't received anything, but i dont think i won anything that time.

You won two trophies. So it is a case of me mislabeling my folders.

Alright, I'll have the trophies for the 16th and 17th contests done and sent first chance I get.


Anyways, with 10 days left (I'll do rundowns also when I can. @.@) let's start deciding on next month's theme!

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
[/table]

As decided, we start with the top four themes that weren't selected last month. Each person may suggest one theme until everyone has suggested a theme and then you get two more. We stop and start voting once we reach sixteen themes!

[malonkey1]

{table=head]Proposed Name|Theme
Third Law|Magitech and technology in general
Mad Man in a Magic Box|Whoverse
Fire and Brimstone|The Lower Planes
The Wasteland|Wasteland (either natural or artificial)
[/table]

As decided, we start with the top four themes that weren't selected last month. Each person may suggest one theme until everyone has suggested a theme and then you get two more. We stop and start voting once we reach sixteen themes!

Okay, how about Psychedelia? (As in Psychedelic)