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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Note: none of those fiends are Demons in 4e. All three are Devils (residents of the Nine Hells), which are not Demons (residents of the Abyss).

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Arkhosia's Avatar

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Note: none of those fiends are Demons in 4e. All three are Devils (residents of the Nine Hells), which are not Demons (residents of the Abyss).
    Note to self: remember to check MM next time.
    I'll just change it to devilfey, because seriously, what sane being would want to **** demons (well, except for a balor maybe, but glabrezu is not an exception: drow priestesses do, but they're drow priestesses)?
    Last edited by Arkhosia; 2013-07-22 at 11:00 PM.
    Avatar by Gulaghar, thanks so much!

    "Are we living a life that is safe from harm? Of course not, we never are. But that's not the right question. The question is: are we living a life that is worth the harm?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magtok
    If it'll keep you from linking that abomination ever again, then fine. You're evil enough. You win.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Building a race for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by tcrudisi View Post
    1. I would never choose 2 stats that boost the same defense. In this case, that's Intelligence and Dexterity.
    I find the importance thereof is overrated. That said, most races that boost the same defense twice give a +1 bonus to something else.

    2. Skill bonuses: Bluff and Perception. Bluff is cool, but Perception? This race doesn't get a bonus to Wisdom, so its Perception will always suffer. It's a wasted skill bonus.
    Not really; if you use a wisdom class it's still decent. That said, +2 bonuses to a skill really don't matter all that much. That goes for pretty much all races.

    In practice, a good racial power has a much greater impact in play than whether one of your skills or defenses is one or two points higher. This is why I would choose Eladrin or Shadar-Kai for many classes, simply because a 1/encounter teleportation effect is extremely useful.

    Hell-Lord's Origin could be rewritten to use normal scaling (e.g. +3/6/9 to-hit by tier). Assassin's Origin could be useful for any squishy class that doesn't want to be attacked in the first round.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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  4. - Top - End - #34
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkhosia View Post
    Dual origin:
    You are either fey or demonic in origin.

    Seducer's Origin
    Encounter Power
    Your attractive appearance puts off your attackers.
    No Action
    Trigger: An opponent attacks you.
    Until the end of your next turn, any opponent who attacks you takes a -2 penalty to attack you.
    At level 11, one opponent of your choice is charmed for 1d6 turns.
    At level 21, one opponent of your choice is dominated for 1d6 turns instead of being charmed.

    Are there any issues with this?
    A few issues remain.

    Firstly, "charmed," isn't a defined game element in 4e, so that doesnt mean anything. Secondly, no existing 4e powers use die rolls to determine duration, and multi-turn no-save dominate without a target restriction or an attack roll is obnoxiously overpowered, even for epic.

    I suggest the following:
    Seducer's Origin
    Encounter Power
    Your attractive appearance puts off your attackers.
    Immediate Interrupt
    Trigger: An opponent attacks you.
    Until the end of your next turn, any opponent who attacks you takes a -2 penalty to attack you.
    At level 11, after the triggering attack is resolved, the triggering attacker is dazed until the end of its next turn.
    At level 21, after the triggering attack is resolved, the triggering attacker is dominated until the end of its next turn instead of dazed.

    I quoted the origin selection as well, because origin has almost no mechanical effect in 4e. So far as I can recall, theres one feat being Fey qualifies you for (and it's not a great one), and one item being demonic might be relevant for. If there's enough power elsewhere, that doesn't really matter. And when it matters
    for so little, why not have dual origin make you both instead of giving you the choice of either?

    The fear power needs +3/6/9 scaling. badly.
    Last edited by Sol; 2013-07-23 at 04:28 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I suggest the following:
    Seducer's Origin
    Encounter Power
    Your attractive appearance puts off your attackers.
    Immediate Interrupt
    Trigger: An opponent attacks you.
    Until the end of your next turn, any opponent who attacks you takes a -2 penalty to attack you.
    At level 11, after the triggering attack is resolved, the triggering attacker is dazed until the end of its next turn.
    At level 21, after the triggering attack is resolved, the triggering attacker is dominated until the end of its next turn instead of dazed.
    The way you've worded this, it should really just be a immediate reaction, which would cut down on some of the words.

    That said, I don't think the added daze or domination is really necessary, and the strange scaling it doesn't really fit in with what a racial power should be capable of, I think. If you wanted to add daze/domination, they'd probably be best as racial feats. A flat -2 to attack rolls (or perhaps -2 or Cha bonus, whichever is higher) against the target until the end of their next turn is strong enough I think.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashdate View Post
    The way you've worded this, it should really just be a immediate reaction, which would cut down on some of the words.

    That said, I don't think the added daze or domination is really necessary, and the strange scaling it doesn't really fit in with what a racial power should be capable of, I think. If you wanted to add daze/domination, they'd probably be best as racial feats. A flat -2 to attack rolls (or perhaps -2 or Cha bonus, whichever is higher) against the target until the end of their next turn is strong enough I think.
    The attack roll penalty (which in effect is more a defense bonus) would suffer greatly from not being an interrupt, and would only come into play if more than one creature attacked you that round.

    I do agree the dominate may be a bit much, but a minor and ill-timed defense bonus is too little, so rather than gutting his ideas, i toned them down to match 4e power ideals.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    The attack roll penalty (which in effect is more a defense bonus) would suffer greatly from not being an interrupt, and would only come into play if more than one creature attacked you that round.

    I do agree the dominate may be a bit much, but a minor and ill-timed defense bonus is too little, so rather than gutting his ideas, i toned them down to match 4e power ideals.
    I can see the benefit of having the power being an interrupt, but the problem I have is that the level 11 and 21 "bonuses" are not interrupts (they instead work like immediate reactions), which is just confusing I think.

    I think a minor action -2 to enemy attack rolls (or if you prefer to think of it the other way, +2 to defenses) could be useful in many situations, most of all on a defender who can mark a target, and apply a further -2 penalty anyway. It could also be used when trying to avoid opportunity attacks, or even as a defensive measure when hit points are low.

    I'm not set in stone on suggesting the power be a minor action rather than an interrupt, but the daze/dominate things need to either go or be regulated to feat support.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Arkhosia's Avatar

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashdate View Post
    I can see the benefit of having the power being an interrupt, but the problem I have is that the level 11 and 21 "bonuses" are not interrupts (they instead work like immediate reactions), which is just confusing I think.

    I think a minor action -2 to enemy attack rolls (or if you prefer to think of it the other way, +2 to defenses) could be useful in many situations, most of all on a defender who can mark a target, and apply a further -2 penalty anyway. It could also be used when trying to avoid opportunity attacks, or even as a defensive measure when hit points are low.

    I'm not set in stone on suggesting the power be a minor action rather than an interrupt, but the daze/dominate things need to either go or be regulated to feat support.
    I will switch it to the +2 defense.
    Adding feats now
    Last edited by Arkhosia; 2013-07-23 at 12:29 PM.
    Avatar by Gulaghar, thanks so much!

    "Are we living a life that is safe from harm? Of course not, we never are. But that's not the right question. The question is: are we living a life that is worth the harm?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magtok
    If it'll keep you from linking that abomination ever again, then fine. You're evil enough. You win.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Also, there's no such thing as Demonic origin. For a devil, the origin you're looking for is Immortal. Devil and Demon are keywords that are most usually added to Immortals and Elementals, respectively.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Arkhosia's Avatar

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    Default Re: Building races for 4e: Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Also, there's no such thing as Demonic origin. For a devil, the origin you're looking for is Immortal. Devil and Demon are keywords that are most usually added to Immortals and Elementals, respectively.
    Switched it to immortal.
    Thanks guys!
    Last edited by Arkhosia; 2013-08-03 at 11:50 PM.
    Avatar by Gulaghar, thanks so much!

    "Are we living a life that is safe from harm? Of course not, we never are. But that's not the right question. The question is: are we living a life that is worth the harm?"
    ~Welcome to Night Vale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magtok
    If it'll keep you from linking that abomination ever again, then fine. You're evil enough. You win.

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