An idea for DMs: Because sometimes PCs can be smarter than their players

[gooddragon1]

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[erikun]

This is actually a feature in some games, as a "Good Sense" skill or something similar, that means the GM will alert the player and allow them to re-think the choice when they are about to do something extreme stupid/hazardous.

Heck, I believe D&D3e even has a feat like that. (It's specific for Paladins are relating to them breaking the code of conduct and/or falling from LG alignment, if I recall correctly.)

[Yukitsu]

This just sounds like it would turn into a more concrete way for the DM to loosen up and then railroad the party around. When things are kept in character and relatively obscure, I find DMs are less frequently going to wave interesting things at the players and then turn around and say "But you can't explore it, neener neener." I'd be firmly against it as it seems like it would lead very directly to lazy DMing.

[TuggyNE]

Heck, I believe D&D3e even has a feat like that. (It's specific for Paladins are relating to them breaking the code of conduct and/or falling from LG alignment, if I recall correctly.)

You mean the Phylactery of Faithfulness?

[gooddragon1]

This just sounds like it would turn into a more concrete way for the DM to loosen up and then railroad the party around. When things are kept in character and relatively obscure, I find DMs are less frequently going to wave interesting things at the players and then turn around and say "But you can't explore it, neener neener." I'd be firmly against it as it seems like it would lead very directly to lazy DMing.

tbh I suggest it more for the inattentive players like myself. And before people say that it's their fault for being inattentive... I say games shouldn't punish people for things like that (and part of good game design is eliminating ambiguity while still promoting challenges).

[Knaight]

Generally speaking, this is what reminders are for. Flat out saying that things are a terrible idea is sometimes appropriate, as is reminding players of things their characters would know that they forgot. After all, the PCs are also observing a lot more of the world than the description encapsulates, have a full mind to attend to their own stuff (as opposed to the section focused on a hobby), and a bunch of other stuff.

[xkaliburr]

Yeah, I have just gone with the approach of repeating the action to the player. That normally makes them rethink that course of action.

[Erik Vale]

Heroes has a skill for this, called Deduction. More often used to make mental leaps cause the players have missed something, but it's useful.
GM's also have a ability to create players that play their characters smart, called character death, but I hear that causes problems.

[Dimers]

I get to the same place from a different direction, in my game system. I assume everyone is entitled to have their characters' REALLY UNWISE DECISIONS pointed out, but you can take a disadvantage/flaw/hindrance thingie to NOT get the hairy eyeball. It gives you extra build points, and you'll probably need them just to survive.

The rest of the players have to agree it's okay for your character to have that trait, because they're not allowed to stop you OOC either.

[Narren]

I get to the same place from a different direction, in my game system. I assume everyone is entitled to have their characters' REALLY UNWISE DECISIONS pointed out, but you can take a disadvantage/flaw/hindrance thingie to NOT get the hairy eyeball. It gives you extra build points, and you'll probably need them just to survive.

The rest of the players have to agree it's okay for your character to have that trait, because they're not allowed to stop you OOC either.

I may have to steal that idea...I have a couple of players in mind that are always getting nudged when they come up with a "plan."

[jedipotter]

Eh, I just let them do it.

I do overly describe things to get the message across.

And I run a ''may the dice fall where they may'' type game. That alone makes players a bit more cautious.

[Eldan]

Doesn't shadowrun have something like that? I think there was an advantage called something like "Common Sense", which basically told the DM to ask "Are you sure about that?" more often.

[Jay R]

It depends on the situation. If the player chooses to act stupidly, then that's fine. More often, the issue isn't stupidity, but misunderstanding the situation.

If the player has just forgotten something that she knows just as well as her character does, then I let it happen.
PC: I give the Prince my sword. As soon as he leaves, I get my spare off my horse of my pack.
(Prince leaves; character goes to horse)
DM: You sold that sword back in town, remember? You are now disarmed.

If the player has forgotten something that the PC couldn't have forgotten, I will tell her automatically.
PC: I give the Prince my sword, and draw my second one from its scabbard on my left.
DM: You're not wearing another one. You sold it in town. Are you still giving the first one to the Prince?

If the player misunderstands something that the character would understand completely, I will usually explain. "Umm, your spellbook is a book - it burns easily, and you can't cast spells anymore if you lose it." But this is a judgment call. Does the character know that magic books are just as flammable as any other book?

If the player misunderstands a description of something that the character actually can see (as in the story of Eric and the gazebo), I will definitely explain it. "Umm, Eric, a gazebo isn't a monster. It's a pavilion - a freestanding wooden structure to provide shade in the middle of a meadow."

PC: I put the rebec to my lips and try to play a tune.
DM: A rebec is a stringed instrument. Do you mean that you strum it?

But a lot of the time, it's something that's somewhat clearer to the character who lives there than to the player. It could be cultural, tactical, or something else. This leads to judgment call. Does the character know about this? If the player demands that a man working in the field take him to the mayor, I have to ask whether the character will know this locations culture well enough to know that the serf can't leave the fields without express permission, for instance.

It can be a difficult call sometimes. But I prefer to make the call than roll for it.

[Kaun]

I usually just tell them, let them consider their options and then move on. No point rolling for it.

for example in the spell book shield example.

"...ok, but just so you know, if you do this it is likely that your spell book will be damaged or destroyed."

Give them a moment to contemplate their actions then if they are still keen, continue on with it.

There is enough dice rolling in rpg's, no need to add more, especially when you want your PC's to have the information.

Generally i find its better to give the players all the pieces and see what they do with them rather then making them find the pieces for themselves.

[Sidmen]

Whenever I run into this problem I just rephrase their plan to accentuate the flaws while speaking in a dismissive voice, then ask if they are sure and I heard them right.

30% of the time they catch on, the rest of the time they proceed with the plan.

[scurv]

This is one of those situations that will end poorly sooner or later, On more then one occasion i been in this situation as both a fellow player and a DM, And sooner or later the drama hits the fan

[elliott20]

I just side-step the problem by letting players use their action points (or whatever narrative deus ex machina equivalent they have) to off set bad decisions made.

Spirits of the Century (a Fate variant) actually has a skill that let's players basically pay a fate point and say, "but aha, I was prepared for this all along!" and pull something out of their rears at the last second.

[SethoMarkus]

I just side-step the problem by letting players use their action points (or whatever narrative deus ex machina equivalent they have) to off set bad decisions made.

Spirits of the Century (a Fate variant) actually has a skill that let's players basically pay a fate point and say, "but aha, I was prepared for this all along!" and pull something out of their rears at the last second.

I immediately thought of this.